FOUND: Interesting discussion about Movement

Rare, intelligent discussion about New Order's Movement album can be found at this website:

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5724731#unread

If only they had recorded the whole album live ala Peel Sessions, they may have had a classic. Too bad Bernard didn't have more time to aclimate to the role of lead singer.

So, i know Churchy loves Movement and a few other peeps here play it quite a bit but it's still the bottom of the bunch (with Republic). Is it really that bad? I love quite a few tunes but you can make a truly great album with the material that they wrote between Closer and PC&L.

The best album they have made by a country mile

The album is sludge. Most of the songs sound the same (ie: muddy), except for DNE. It's kind of a conundrum, too, considering that the singles they released at the time, like EGG and Ceremony, were rather good.

I think Movement was a strong "experimental" album, and like Blue Monday - it was a very good experiment. I really enjoy this album, buts its an album that is hard to listen to sometimes I think. Unlike some of their other stuff.

Movement kicks fucking ass. If you hate Movement, you hate Joy Division. If you don't believe me, believe that I make broad unsubstantiated generalizations. Case closed.

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote: Movement kicks fucking ass. If you hate Movement, you hate Joy Division. If you don't believe me, believe that I make broad unsubstantiated generalizations. Case closed.

OK, so is it possible to hate Joy Division but love New Order? At one time in my life, quite a few years ago, Joy Division was an obsession with me--but now I wonder, did I listen to them so much because I was depressed and angry, or did listening to them cause me to become depressed and hopeless? In any event New Order's music makes me feel happy, and I don't really want to re-visit the angst of my late teens. But I should listen to Movement again sometime,'cos I've almost totally forgotten what the songs sound like...

Still my favourite NO album by a long long way. Production is poor, but I still love it

nancyo wrote: But I should listen to Movement again sometime,'cos I've almost totally forgotten what the songs sound like...

We revisited a load of stuff we'd never listened to for ages on a long car journey (movement, republic, brotherhood plus other bands stuff..shock horror).

Decided brotherhood is very good and better than I remembered. The other two stand out (IMHO) of having one cracking track (DNE & Regret) + loads of filler. Movement reminds me musically of JD a bit but Barneys lyrics were no substitute for Ians, as Ally said elsewhere the compilation EP is a better place to start.

Gradually liking WFTSC... probably due too my other half leaving it in the car cd player permanently

Don't like Hannett's production, the songs are much better live.

Case in point: Taras 81. Mesmerising.

I think Movement was necessary for New Order, the first step post-Ian. Don't listen to it much but it does have some good songs, and live it's fantastic

I love MOVEMENT; it's one of the best Factory albums of the early 80s. The sound is amazing, and some of the songs are very well-written, too. It's only true peak is DNE, but everything else is consistently very good - it is an album that goes for a consistent, mesmerizing atmosphere rather than a series of incoherent (however good they individually may be) group of songs. I tend to find that to be PC&L's weakness. While I think MOVEMENT is more coherent as an ALBUM, PC&L definitely has some better songs on it (5 8 6, AOC, YSF, LMA) - some of which I think are some of NO's best songs. But the fact remains, in my mind, that MOVEMENT is one of the band's best albums.

I don't like moperock

nancyo wrote: OK, so is it possible to hate Joy Division but love New Order?

If I'm not wrong, the webmaster is the person to answer this.

In fact, that happens, but time showed me that JD fans hate NO with more frequence.

Move kicks fucking ass, should always be played loud and Denial, Truth, Dreams Never End should be played by the band in 2005.

twist wrote: Move kicks fucking ass, should always be played loud and Denial, Truth, Dreams Never End should be played by the band in 2005.

Word.

twist wrote: Move kicks fucking ass, should always be played loud and Denial, Truth, Dreams Never End should be played by the band in 2005.

Would it feel the same though? That said i would die if they played DNE. Not literally, obviously.

Denial was an arse-kicker live. To me the songs were too toned down on the record.

I actually play Movement more than any of my NO albums now.Admitted years ago,some of it is heavy going.Listening to it now,alongside the Joy Division stuff,Martin Hannett's production was way ahead of its time.It sounds like no other album I've heard."Senses" and "The Him" are spine-tingling to this day

I don't know if Steve is up to the drumming requirements of Denial. We will always have Taras...

Well when I first listened to New Order for the very first time in my life it was songs like True Faith, BLT, 1963 that were first introduced to me so the Movement sound was very different to me and to be honest I hated Movement when I first heard it, cause to me it just didn't sound like New Order as I was used to the mid to late 80's stuff. Overtime though I have got to like Movement as I have accepted that this was an early stage in their career and they were still finding their grounds. Having listened to songs like Dreams Never End, Cries & Whispers, Procession and Senses, and that magnificent live performance at New York '81 (316 DVD) I can say that the early NO sound (Movement, Ceremony... etc) is actually quite cool and it has a kind of specialty to it which I really like. That's all I have to say really, after giving Movement a real try it actually has a special sound to it which I really like.

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote: Movement kicks fucking ass. If you hate Movement, you hate Joy Division. If you don't believe me, believe that I make broad unsubstantiated generalizations. Case closed.

Well, aside from a few songs, I don't particularly like Joy Division. It isn't the instrumentation so much as Ian's vocals.

Movement for me was "my first" new order album, since I had gotten GR & P, C, & L from my dad. I loved it though at first listen and tried to sing it. But it was during my JD phase, although I listened to it today & loved it. Now I think if someone went back in "reproduced or remixed" it in a remastering way, it could really shine. As well as adding some of the songs previously mentioned. Maybe someone should try it someday.

Hannett's production is a mixed bag. I prefer the Peel Sessions: the versions are cleaner, and therefore the bare tension is more excitingly evident. Bernard's hatred for the album seemed pretty long lasting, but one would think he'd relent and let 'Dreams Never End' get a renewed airing. Funny how Hooky's vocal on that was more in key than Bernard in general during the early days.

I agree with the sentiment that Movement is a great album. If you don't care for it, find someone who has Taras, or better yet, get it yourself, and watch some of the songs live. I don't believe there are any whoops or whistles from Bernard.

I view Dreams Never End and Chosen Time as indicating the future sound that defines New Order. Dreams opens with an ebullient base line that has become a NO trademark, and Chosen Time opens with a driving synth and drum and ends in a cascade of sound, all elements of classic NO.

Overall, the album reflects their history as JD, as both the lyrical content and sound are more melancholic than NO would become. Also, Bernard has not found his voice, which he began to on the 1981-1982 EP.

My understanding is that the band wasn't too happy with the production. I think some of the effects distract from, rather than add to, some of the songs, particularly I.C.B. And wasn't Movement the last time Hannett worked with the band? Which raises the question: Should we consider Hannett, at least from the JD to Movement period, almost another member of the band, since his production helped define the band's sound.

And, I don't know if the band has any interest in it, but it would be great to hear them play a song of Movement on their current tour. If they play some of the old JD songs, you would think that they would pull out a song from Movement at some point.

Hasn't Barney said on more than one occassion that he doesn't even remember writing almost any of the songs on Movement?

The Ostrich Hannett wrote: Hasn't Barney said on more than one occassion that he doesn't even remember writing almost any of the songs on Movement?

Yes, he was channeling Ian's ghost and no one seemed to notice until it was captured on film in the Perfect Kiss video.

Don't know if that is off-topic.

Perhaps he hypnotized himself and tried to communicate with Ian's former self as well.

He doesn't need to remember writing the songs (there's probably much he doesn't remember!), they simply have to put the lyrics into the autocue. I'm sure Phil can handle the guitar parts.

His (New Young) Holiness, The Pope wrote:

The Ostrich Hannett wrote: Hasn't Barney said on more than one occassion that he doesn't even remember writing almost any of the songs on Movement?

Yes, he was channeling Ian's ghost and no one seemed to notice until it was captured on film in the Perfect Kiss video.

SO I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE WHO SAW THAT

Chosen Time live on Taras Chev - Superb Chosen Time studio on Movement -Flat & Dull

Movement is great but poorly produced.

Movement by far is the best album as a whole that New Order has ever done. It flows so perfectly, I never skip a track. Also, it has, in my opinion, New Order's most powerful/moving song yet, Doubts Even Here. I would kill and eat a small child to see them play that song live again.

I quite like the album first time I heard ICB - it reminded me of Dead Souls

**Also, it has, in my opinion, New Order's most powerful/moving song yet, Doubts Even Here. I would kill and eat a small child to see them play that song live again.**

Yep, me too!

I think if your first exposure to New Order was in the late 80's or later, you'll find Movement baffling. I wonder if folks here?

I wrote the article on ILM btw.

I meant to say "I wonder if that applies to some folks here", but I can't fooking type.

DC wrote: **I think if your first exposure to New Order was in the late 80's or later, you'll find Movement baffling. I wonder if folks here?

While I don't advocate cannibalism, I do agree.;)

If you came to know New Order after first loving Joy Division, then Movement isn't a baffle but is appreciated. But if you first got into New Order in late 80s or later, and aren't a JD fan, then Movement is probably more of a puzzle than a gem.

I often wonder how many JD fans dislike NO, and vice versa.

Actually, I had heard PC&L, Brotherhood and Low Life before Movement. But it still took my breath away, if you'll excuse the lame choice of words. I only discovered Joy Division around 1997.

I hardly ever listen to it. I only got it on cd about a year ago. Last time I heard, it I however was pleasantly surprised.

Yes Doubts Even here is moving, i find that one having that kind of sad depressive atmosphere that gets to you.