it did it again, typed up a post and it vanished when i hit submit. the page just reloaded. Is there a campbell-talking-bollox-ometer on the submit page? I wasn;t even talking bollox, I was asking a question about their gear, and how you do the gate trigger things in MIDI. Can't be bothered retyping now.

Admins, delete at your leisure. Firefox 1.02 on gentoo linux have experienced same problem before, post length limit? overflow bug? Oh and the search function is grey for me in firefox and opera, if it involves java, forget it, it's my problem.

when you are typing for more than the usual witty response or simple question, simply copy your text before submitting...if you get an error, just paste into the text field and be done with it...how many times do you need to make the same mistake before taking measures to prevent it? for me the answer was 3!

the beauty of it is....

1. this is linux, so doing that is a joke it' so easy, just highlight, and middle click a convenient terminal window lying around anywhere.
2. If you copy it it NEVER crashes.

LOL. in my case about 17 times probably, cos I drift to and fro I tend to forget :(

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: how many times do you need to make the same mistake before taking measures to prevent it? for me the answer was 3!

And how old are your three kids now, BLT?

:\pimp3:

depthcharge wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: how many times do you need to make the same mistake before taking measures to prevent it? for me the answer was 3!

And how old are your three kids now, BLT?

:\pimp3:

Zing!

*This post was copied before submitting, for your safety.*

depthcharge wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: how many times do you need to make the same mistake before taking measures to prevent it? for me the answer was 3!

And how old are your three kids now, BLT?

:\pimp3:

Depth Charge 1 Biznotic 0

nice one Depthy!

Brilliant, DC!

By the wae - if you coppy into Word or similar, you can speal-check your post before pasteing it into hear.

Werks a treet!!!

Spotnick wrote:

However, this is not normal, I am pissed too when it happens to me.

Dno't drkin and tpye tneh!

Mr. Campbell, I don't know how the Order do it, but you can just use a MIDI track assigned to Controller 7 (Volume) to get that nifty gate sound. Use one MIDI track for notes and another set to the same channel (and Controller 7) for gating.

A value of 127 gives you full blast, and a value of 0 mutes the track. If you can send the values to a software mixer, it's the same as flipping the fader up and down really really fast, and you can use it on audio tracks as well.

I can send you a stack of MIDI gate files that includes all the standard Dit-dit-DIT Dit-dit-DITs if'n you want.

If that's what you're talking about. (Like the intro synth on Dracula's Castle).

Have you done any MIDIs for the new songs, Brett/Steve? Or would you be interested in doing any on a commission basis for Digital to use in forthcoming summer shows? I'm a bit short of time between now and our next dates in July, and we want to do some of the new album's synth tracks as well as the guitar ones, which are already in the bag!

Gnu Odor wrote: Mr. Campbell, I don't know how the Order do it, but you can just use a MIDI track assigned to Controller 7 (Volume) to get that nifty gate sound. Use one MIDI track for notes and another set to the same channel (and Controller 7) for gating.

A value of 127 gives you full blast, and a value of 0 mutes the track. If you can send the values to a software mixer, it's the same as flipping the fader up and down really really fast, and you can use it on audio tracks as well.

I can send you a stack of MIDI gate files that includes all the standard Dit-dit-DIT Dit-dit-DITs if'n you want.

If that's what you're talking about. (Like the intro synth on Dracula's Castle).

In addition to this method, if you're gating a synth sound, you can use an LFO. Set up the LFO to a square wave, sync to MIDI clock(if supported by the synth), assign it as a modulator for either the amp envelope or filter envelope and you're off and pulsing.

Don't listen to Bentley...he thinks the drums on WFTSC sound good.

(Just kidding. Well, not about the weak-ass drums, but his LFO advice is good...though most synths, in my day anyway, only offered an on-off-on-off-on-off square wave.)

What software are you using, Mr. Campbell? (he asked, boldly assuming that his setup is indeed software-based.)

P.S. I'd be happy and honored to whip up some MIDI sequences for Digital; I didn't know you lads were doing the new stuff, though.

P.P.S. Seriously, Bentley, you like those drums?

Gnu Odor wrote: Don't listen to Bentley...he thinks the drums on WFTSC sound good.

(Just kidding. Well, not about the weak-ass drums, but his LFO advice is good...though most synths, in my day anyway, only offered an on-off-on-off-on-off square wave.)

What software are you using, Mr. Campbell? (he asked, boldly assuming that his setup is indeed software-based.)

P.S. I'd be happy and honored to whip up some MIDI sequences for Digital; I didn't know you lads were doing the new stuff, though.

P.P.S. Seriously, Bentley, you like those drums?

Hey Gnu... :P ;)

If you want to go old school pre MIDI control, you can achieve the gating effect by using a noise gate on the output of your source, insert another source into the key input of the gate(asuming there is one) and trigger your sound that way. For example, you can trigger the gate on a pad using a hit hat pattern into the key input for a stuttering pad effect. Many different ways to skin a cat and endless possibilities... all depends on your rig.

As for the drums sounds... I remember the comment but think the specific track I had in mind was Krafty while typing. Live drums in a real room during the chorus not overly processed and with just the right smack. I also remember reading one of the many interviews lately that confirmed that there was a nice drum room at one of the places they recorded. My comparison was also to the harsh overly baked and distorted sound of Get Ready, which I dislike. I do recognize some of the sounds on WFTSC as being out of Steve's V-Drum kit, but not all of them. It's just nice to hear something not compressed to bits for a change and still have it sit nicely in the mix. So... while I don't necessarily think they're the greatest, most fantastic, bestest, etc. drums in the world, I liked them better than Get Ready. But, again, I hated Get Ready so there you have it.

Damn, we're going to drive everyone out of this thread with our MIDI geekiness. Save yourselves, people!

Yeah, back in the day I used to run a sequence from my Alesis MMT-8 into the mighty Yamaha FB-01, and run that into the gate input of my little Alesis MicroGate to get that cool stutter effect...which I'd record on my awesome 4-track cassette.

Where's Mr. Campbell? He started this mess.

Could be worse... this could be another thread about Jetstream. :D D'oh! Now I've done it...

Jesus, I sat online at this site for 14 hours yesterday, I go for a bit of kip and get abuse :)

Where to start? As for Temptaion.... Both right, both wrong. Both the LFO method and the CC7 will work, but I don't think either would sound quite like what we hear ( FWIW, I used to handprogram gating parts, had a whole secret library of parts to load up when working on other people's stuff, just to make them go "wow". Still dunno if I was happy or pissed off when "note to controller" appeared in sequencers). It does sound very much like the envelopes retrigger on each note, which would probably mean that if either method is right, it's the LFO one, but I doubt it. My JV90 is a sibling of their big Roland, and it can do some odd midi things, and some complex LFO stuff, but it still can't make THAT effect.

To my ear, it sounds like the machine is taking the Velocity value from the incomming MIDI, but the note value from a last key buffer ( which is normally none of the users damned business on a synth). Every other way I can think of involves so much processing of notes and controllers that the timing would stink ( bring back sync24)

We used to hook our Dr110 and Moog together to play Temp and EGG, nearly shit when decades later I find that NO used exactly the same idea.

Oh, I aint even looked at the new songs yet, only just learned to play krafty/jizstream on the bass. I also doubt any of their newer stuff is within my programming abilities. Like many bassplayers I am Chord blind, so old order stuff with a dozen monophonic parts was easy, newer stuff confuses me.

My rig: Cubase SX2.nn, Roland JV90, Folio 12:2. There is other gear here and in our other lil studio.....ESi32, Ensoniq Mirage, Quasimidi Technox, Machinedrum, moog rogue, multiple atari's ( mainly used to debug PC!), Casio CZ3000, Yamaha CS1x (best kept apart from me, I see yamaha's as the Windows of sunth OS's), Juno60 Juno106. As for Softstuff, we pretty much download everything we can get our grubby paws on, then over a period of months work out what we do and do not use, the next time the kitty fills up with cash, we buy the most deserving packages. Gotta say tho that despite the power and access to cheap noises, I dislike software intensely, the interactivity is awful and you can have no faith in your rig. We moved our production to PC in early 2000, our last public performance was 1999, we cannot trust the PC not to chuck a wobbly in front of an audience.

Oh Yeah, RE: gating.....The Shamen relied on that exact technique for their whole carreer ( ie from when they were really good right thru Mr.C. destroying them)to constantly lock Colin's shite old Wetone guit to the hihat. I can also feed an external signal though the Moog's VCA and VCF, you have to pump it thru at a hellish level, but it makes a hell of a guitar pedal.

Steve Campbell wrote: Casio CZ3000

Phase Distortion synthesis, motherf*****!

You better believe it. Remember reading somewhere once that "PDM is simmillar to FM", yes like a tiger is simmillar to tiddles there on the rug. The CZ3000 has been with me since 87, and has undergone the following. out a window off 3 people's head's ( 2 on purpose) off it's stand onto the floor several times. bottle of iron bru in it[1] Had a really big girl dance on it

it now exists as several bits, that can still be plugged together and despite their lack of keyboard or screen, forced to produce THOSE noises. I will not set it to rest until I have another one, when it WILL be given a viking funeral.

I always form a wry smile when scanning other people's gear lists, everyone has a CZ101 and raves about it's noises, and I just think "you probably need to meet the 3000 my friends". Really want a 5000 or a CZ1 ( even more oscillators AND veloicty sensitive) EDIT: or even a VZ1 although it ha the same DAC's as the FZ series and they are, how to put this without resorting to hyperbole?.....a total bucket of monkey sp*nk, and the worst wast of silicone since Jordan's baps. noisey noisey noisey.

[1] it powered down, I didn't touch it out of fear ofa live case, 3 days later it dried out and switched back on on it's own.

Gnu Odor wrote:

P.S. I'd be happy and honored to whip up some MIDI sequences for Digital; I didn't know you lads were doing the new stuff, though.

We are indeed sir, without giving too much away, the next gig will contain at least three from the new album if not more. We're gonna be doing a lot more NO stuff from now on, so any MIDI stuff you fancy having a crack at will be very much appreciated! Especially stuff with click tracks for Jon, who is forever complaining about the stuff I have done that hasn't included them!

Three songs, huh? Well, I guess if the crowd is demanding "Jetstream," you've gotta deliver.

And Mr. Campbell...alleged Ensoniq Mirage owner...don't speak ill of my beloved master (ie, only) keyboard, the mighty Casio FZ-1.

It rocks the shack.

LOL, c'mon if I was gonna lie I'd say I had 2 fairlights and a synclavier. It's a mirage rack, de-lugged. I have no idea where the OS discs have gone and the only documentation I have for it is a numeric command list. However, I have had it going before the disc's vanished and it's a joy to play. If you like those lovely 808State/Orbital squealchy chord sample noises, this IS the actual shit. As far as I know it has fully analogue filters (either that or the oddest digital ones ever since they self oscilate and make big "forbidden planet footstep" noises.....hardly likely to be digital given it's age). Recorded a few tracks with it too. I swear one of the drumkits on the factory discs is the one used on Theives Like Us, but it can't be.

As for the FZ, don't misunderstand, it truly is rover's shaggin tackle, a terrifyingly powerful instrument hiding behind the name everyone thinks of as making musical calculators and crap home keyboards. Loved the time I spent using one, apart from what I said above, the DAC's and ADC's were horrible, either they were appallingly cheap, or calibrated by donkeys, or were designed to operate on some impedance that's only standard on Latvian Television. Whatever the cause, the output was REPULSIVELY hissy, and as for balancing the level to get a good sample in.....LOL I think I went cross eyed...hiss hiss hiss hissSCREAMING DISTORTION. I was later told by a studio owner I know, that am attenuator plug on it's input not only fixed it, but unlocked the fact that sampling on it was actually idiotically easy to get right. Oddly Enough the one I used was an FZ1 and his was an FZ10M ( everything else in the studio was "standard", just the shit you need for the clueless customer, but he point blank refused to buy an akai sampler as long as the FZ lived.), his did however have a slightly cleaner output, but if I remember correctly his standalone dBx unit was normalized to the FZ's stereo out, but he was ANAL about noise. I also played a VZ1 in a shop and it sounded exactly the same, just hissy....in fact it was worse, so bad I'm still not convinced it wasn't wired wrong, but every other machine sounded fine and clean.

BTW, when are digital coming to Ireland? Not that I'm a lazy bastard, but Bangor Leisure centre's a great venue and we have lots of good pubs too :)

And when's the U.S. tour?

And, as tedious as Mr. Campbell's and my discussion regarding the relative merits of the filters of the FZ-1 and the Ensoniq may seem, we'd all be a hell of a lot better off if Bernard and Steven were still having these sorts of discussions.

Girl, you know it's true.

Steve Campbell wrote: multiple atari's .

could you play games on it ?

(i got lost on the thrid reply to the technical stuff)

LLamatron mainly. Occasionally on a 20ft projector with the sound running through the PA, but it's not the sort of thing any sane person can tolerate for more than 30secs so they always tell me to stop.

I'm actually gobsmacked that NO outsource some of their programming, I mean come ON!!