Did Phenobarbital kill Ian?

The more I read about the history of Joy Division and the progression of Ian's illness, the more suspicious I am about the role that prescription drugs may have played in his death. Barney himself has stated this opinion on many occasions.

Ian was prescribed Phenobarbital for his epilepsy. Phenobarbital, as I unfortunately know from personal experience, is probably the nastiest drug on earth - much, much nastier than heroin. Unlike opiates or benzodiazepines, there are no pleasantries to this drug - no euphoria, no equilibrium of emotions, and definitely no lifting of depression. In fact it has long been known that Pheno can make depression significantly worse in those who are already suffering and promote nihilistic and suicidal thoughts. This drug is a big black hole that literally eats away your personality until there is nothing left. It is very rarely prescribed these days for this very reason. Significantly, Ian stopped taking the drug shortly before his suicide. As any doctor will tell you, this is the worst possible thing to do, as the dosage must be gradually tapered off. Withdrawal from Pheno can kill you in itself.

What annoys me about this, is that this drug was already widely discredited as a treatment for epilepsy in the late 70s, when it was prescribed to Ian. Benzos like Valium and Nitrazepam had already replaced Phenobarbital as the front line treatment for this condition. In my opinion, Ian's doctor at the time has a lot to answer for in the demise of this lost genius.

If only the miracle drugs of today had been around at the time... but then again, this poses a difficult and disturbing question. We love Ian's music and lyrics because of their darkness and desolation, and who is to say whether or not this nasty and insidious drug played a part in his glimpse into the dark, tortured abyss? We all know that Barney's consumed his fair share of MDMA over the years, and come up with uplifting gems like "Krafty" and "Regret". I think maybe we underestimate the influence of drugs in the development of music, but unfortunately in Ian's case, that influence killed him.

so your answering your own question?:D

It's ok I do it all the time.

Respect...by the way.

Not necessarily - its just my belief that it could have played a very significant part. Other people may think otherwise and say the drugs had nothing to do with it - the view, for example, that he had always intended to die at a young age anyway. But my point was that I really dont think he should have been prescribed this god-awful drug. Whatever personal problems he had, I can assure you this drug would have magnified them tenfold.

I can't remember which drugs Debbie mentions in her book, but she does mention a few. Have you read Touching from a Distance?

phenobarbital probably had something to do about ians death. but what can you do now, ian was a great song writer and singer,at less ithink so. hes my favorite. but if it wasnt for his death their wouldnt have been a new order.now im not saying its a good thing he died, cause im not;ian curtis is my favorite song writer. but something good can come out of something bad happening.

My dog is on Phenobarbital...he's epileptic (and no, he's not called Ian). He's been on it for 6 years now. It stops the epil.fits, but makes him drink gallons and gallons of water. Long term effects of this medicine are not nice though, it can cause disfunctioning of the liver and/or kidneys. it's a difficult decision: the fits cause loss of eyesight, desorientation, the drugs ruin his body on the long term...i choose for the drugs.:(

mario wrote: My dog is on Phenobarbital...he's epileptic (and no, he's not called Ian). He's been on it for 6 years now. It stops the epil.fits, but makes him drink gallons and gallons of water. Long term effects of this medicine are not nice though, it can cause disfunctioning of the liver and/or kidneys. it's a difficult decision: the fits cause loss of eyesight, desorientation, the drugs ruin his body on the long term...i choose for the drugs.:(

I think you should include a picture of your poor dog.

I have a question about ian's fucking off. i reread deborah's book recently and she said she discoverd ian dead kneeling on the floor. How is this possible after hanging yourself?

I'm still curious about the kid mentioned trying to cut Ian down in the book. Whatever happened to him? Did he just disappear off the face of the earth?

there seems to be a lot of contradictory statements regarding his death.

one of the strangest experiences i ever had was in a burger king in washington d.c.. I saw an elderly lady who looked exactly like my late grandmother as i rememberd heard. This happened a few yrs after her death and i was still really young.

szwajkos technique wrote: I have a question about ian's fucking off. i reread deborah's book recently and she said she discoverd ian dead kneeling on the floor. How is this possible after hanging yourself?

He hung himself from the laundry rack which could be raised and lowered by a pulley, so his knees were not fully touching the ground since he was said to be almost kneeling in front of the laundry machine.

Just to answer the question from Szwajkos about how Deborah found Ian kneeling on the floor and therefore how could he have hung himself, I think he didnt hang himself as such, he simply tied the clothes line round his neck and leant forward, so his death was due to strangulation. Thankfully with this method he would have probably blacked out before death finally came. The depiction of Ian swinging from the ceiling in "24 Hour Party People" is probably the most misleading part of the whole film.

As for Marc's question about the guy who supposedly cut him down, when I was looking at a site promoting the forthcoming film, I saw a post from a guy who claimed to be this person, asking how he could get in touch with the producers to give his version of events. This saddens me, as it seems like yet another person trying to get his moneys worth out of Ian's death.

DreamAttack wrote: This saddens me, as it seems like yet another person trying to get his moneys worth out of Ian's death.

Well if it's been that misrepresented (1st I've heard about this...makes me sick)...I'd think it's good if the damn producers listen to him...and try to get as much of the truth as possible. If that is the truth....personally I don't like the thought that n.o. would have put up with that representation in 24hrPartyPeps. Anyone ever heard of any comments about that (24hr...) via the band?

But maybe the powers thought that was a point that would leave the ignorant with questions while viewing....which still makes me sick.

Cheers, Peace and Love to all.

FAC103 wrote: would it be crass to say that a rope killed Ian?

My opinion is that it was gravity that killed Ian.

A drug that eats away at your personality?.I find life itself does that anyway

Dream Attack you're totally correct. Had stuff like Prozac been around at the time, he'd be still with us. In fact he took that black hole of a drug, and he just saw no future. When you take stuff like that, the problems you have in life, like being taken between the family you have just formed and a stranger lover, makes you see like there is no way out other than death. You don't think at possible solutions to solve a problem, you just want to get out of it, even taking your whole life with you... It's not like he was undecided between taking the road on the left or taking the road on the right... he just saw a black wall and that was it, no other direction than jumping into the dark and stop the pain... Had he taken Prozac, he could have seen the ways he could have chosen, but those ways where hidden by that thick black curtain... That's how Ian died. Erm, not to mention that when you take drugs like that you NEVER should mix it with alcohol or even with other drugs!

anthony bice wrote:

DreamAttack wrote: This saddens me, as it seems like yet another person trying to get his moneys worth out of Ian's death.

Well if it's been that misrepresented (1st I've heard about this...makes me sick)...I'd think it's good if the damn producers listen to him...and try to get as much of the truth as possible. If that is the truth....personally I don't like the thought that n.o. would have put up with that representation in 24hrPartyPeps.

If I remember that bit of the film accurately, we just see Ian's legs. Perhaps 'poetic' licence, but better than showing the whole of him, which they would have had to do if he was virtually kneeling.

As for the bloke who supposedly tried to take Ian down, surely if he was after making money from this he would have tried a long time ago?

Hmmm not sure I like posting about this subject. I'll shut up.