56 replies · 2,044 views
49 votes · voting closed
So what percentage of NO fans are moshers and how many of us don't feel the need to partake of this?
I'm not a great fan of moshing nowadays (although I like a Barney style groove), but i'm not against others doing it so long as they don't try to mosh non-moshers.
only when drunk, and then only when in the mood. i loved it when i was in high school, but now i'm an old fart and can only take so much of it before my back gives out on me.
Can anyone explain what "moshing" is to a non-english person, please? Does that mean going mad, jumping up and down and pushing people around or such?
Only when drunk, but never been to a NO gig sober. Although I didnt mosh at Warrington all those years ago, I was so pissed I thought the support act were NO then collapsed before NO got on, fortunately I missed the 'Blackburn Yoof' looking for 'action'.:dead:
I think all of the British fans I've met from here, bar none, like to get stuck in down the front. Thinking fast on me feet here I can't think of any who hold back when the Order are on stage?! Even the girls!
Same goes for some of the foreign fans I've met. AgentWood in Noo Yoik, and the German Order wherever they go.
I have a feeling I am misunterpreting what moshing is... 
What I thought it was is not really dancing, it's boucing into people literally, and do it as hard as you can...
Remember doings this a lot on Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit a few years ago.. ;)
Al Jarvis wrote: I think all of the British fans I've met from here, bar none, like to get stuck in down the front. Thinking fast on me feet here I can't think of any who hold back when the Order are on stage?!
Agreed.
Spotnick wrote: I have a feeling I am misunterpreting what moshing is...
What I thought it was is not really dancing, it's boucing into people literally, and do it as hard as you can...
Not always possible with the weight of fans who are up for it at New Order gigs though, check out "Touched" (I think) from 316. That's just one huge crowd moving as one, up and down when you see the audience shots.
I don't like the word mosh, much prefer 'ruck' meself. Which is what you often get at New Order gigs. Well, over here certainly. Just one big mass of bodies crushed together. Moshing has me in mind of kids at their first gig, all flailing arms and no purpose. Like you say, the sort of thing divs did for Nirvana. Bless.
Barney Army wrote: Only when drunk, but never been to a NO gig sober. Although I didnt mosh at Warrington all those years ago, I was so pissed I thought the support act were NO then collapsed before NO got on, fortunately I missed the 'Blackburn Yoof' looking for 'action'.:dead:
I think it was '83 (i was 13!!!) when they did the Warrington Parr Hall? Sadly that was 3 years before I got the NO bug...
Moshing wasn't in my vocab back then - in fact I was still confused by what dancing around handbags meant...
craigy wrote: I think it was '83 (i was 13!!!) when they did the Warrington Parr Hall? Sadly that was 3 years before I got the NO bug...
Have they played the Parr Hall?! That was rumoured for the 2001 comeback but Liverpool got the nod instead.
Spectrum Arena was 86. Tim Burgess's first New order gig, apparently.
Al Jarvis wrote:
craigy wrote: I think it was '83 (i was 13!!!) when they did the Warrington Parr Hall? Sadly that was 3 years before I got the NO bug...
Have they played the Parr Hall?! That was rumoured for the 2001 comeback but Liverpool got the nod instead.
Spectrum Arena was 86. Tim Burgess's first New order gig, apparently.
Yep, twas Spectrum in '86....it still brings back memories of Vodka.
Back on the subject of moshing, less like Nirvana, more like the the old football terraces....ahh the memories.
Al Jarvis wrote:
craigy wrote: I think it was '83 (i was 13!!!) when they did the Warrington Parr Hall? Sadly that was 3 years before I got the NO bug...
Have they played the Parr Hall?! That was rumoured for the 2001 comeback but Liverpool got the nod instead.
Spectrum Arena was 86. Tim Burgess's first New order gig, apparently.
Yep, you're right... I could have sworn I read somewhere that they played the parr hall in the 80's... my memory has probably mixed this up with something else... (a 'The The' concert some of my brain cells are suggesting). My cerebrum is not the greatest storage / recall device that God's bestowed.
Barney Army wrote: Back on the subject of moshing, less like Nirvana, more like the the old football terraces....ahh the memories.
Very good analogy! 
I reckon theres a strong correlation between MOSHERS and footie fans... Maybe we could find out by seeing if the people who are positive about moshing are also positive for putting footie before NO:
http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=22034&PageIndex=2
Al Jarvis wrote:
Spotnick wrote: I have a feeling I am misunterpreting what moshing is...
What I thought it was is not really dancing, it's boucing into people literally, and do it as hard as you can...
Not always possible with the weight of fans who are up for it at New Order gigs though, check out "Touched" (I think) from 316. That's just one huge crowd moving as one, up and down when you see the audience shots.
I don't like the word mosh, much prefer 'ruck' meself. Which is what you often get at New Order gigs. Well, over here certainly. Just one big mass of bodies crushed together. Moshing has me in mind of kids at their first gig, all flailing arms and no purpose. Like you say, the sort of thing divs did for Nirvana. Bless.
I started to dislike it when I lost my watch in one... but yeah, it could be fun when drunk and doing it with friends..
Fortunatly, I have the size to survive in these 
, nobody ever managed to push me too much...
Never seen NO.....but had to go for option one based on other gigs.
My friend Esther and I once had the ENTIRE stage left speaker stack in the point depot dublin to ourselves while the chemical brothers were on.....cos no other fucker was A) dumb enough to stand so close to such a tower and B) able to get there had they wanted to owing to the insane mosh-disco-jig thing we were doing.
here's a rule of thumb to go by.
if you're under 25 and listening to a hard rock/metal/punk band, then moshing is acceptable
if you're over 30, fat as a pig and listening to a POP BAND WITH A DARK PAST, then moshing doesn't make sense. Seriously, have you considered the irony of moshing to Bizarre Love Triangle?
There's a reason why people are upset at others barging in at the last minute and disrupting their evening. What we're seeing here is the physical divide between the "spotty students" and the "hooligans".
You are old, the band are basically miming to a preprogrammed set of mostly borderline gay dance anthems (despite you're claims to the contrary) and the other 20K in the audience don't find it necessary to push, shove and generally act like twats to enjoy the show. If you want moshing you should go see a band with actual energy playing agressive music. Moshing to New Order is absolutely ridiuculous. They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
enjoy!
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: here's a rule of thumb to go by.
if you're under 25 and listening to a hard rock/metal/punk band, then moshing is acceptable
if you're over 30, fat as a pig and listening to a POP BAND WITH A DARK PAST, then moshing doesn't make sense. Seriously, have you considered the irony of moshing to Bizarre Love Triangle?
There's a reason why people are upset at others barging in at the last minute and disrupting their evening. What we're seeing here is the physical divide between the "spotty students" and the "hooligans".
You are old, the band are basically miming to a preprogrammed set of mostly borderline gay dance anthems (despite you're claims to the contrary) and the other 20K in the audience don't find it necessary to push, shove and generally act like twats to enjoy the show. If you want moshing you should go see a band with actual energy playing agressive music. Moshing to New Order is absolutely ridiuculous. They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
You must know, you have the authority to say. Thank you for your posting...
You are old, the band are basically miming to a preprogrammed set of mostly borderline gay dance anthems (despite you're claims to the contrary) and the other 20K in the audience don't find it necessary to push, shove and generally act like twats to enjoy the show. If you want moshing you should go see a band with actual energy playing agressive music. Moshing to New Order is absolutely ridiuculous. They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
Agree with most of this; the gay dance influence is their whether homophobes want to admit it or not, but NO are way better than PSB. I'm a PSB fan but they don't come close to NO (IMsemiHO).
Also agree with:
My friend Esther and I once had the ENTIRE stage left speaker stack in the point depot dublin to ourselves while the chemical brothers were on.....cos no other fucker was A) dumb enough to stand so close to such a tower and B) able to get there had they wanted to owing to the insane mosh-disco-jig thing we were doing.
Although there may be some slight traces of blood at the earlobes post-gig...
I don't understand why people can't just jump up and down. It's a fine way to rock out. It's the jerks who want to sway left to right, knocking people over that are the problem. Listen drunk moron, it's New Order not Slayer. We get it, you're a badass rock dude. Why else would you be at a NO concert if you weren't hard as shit
You can still have a good time and be respectful of others. Well, I can.
Al Jarvis wrote: I think all of the British fans I've met from here, bar none, like to get stuck in down the front. Thinking fast on me feet here I can't think of any who hold back when the Order are on stage?! Even the girls!
Same goes for some of the foreign fans I've met. AgentWood in Noo Yoik, and the German Order wherever they go.
Ummm....You'll rarely find me down the front. Bollocks all to do with "moshing" though. Just prefer the vibe from further back. And I don't like being too far from the bar.
What a f***n daft debate anyway. If you don't wanna jump around don't go down the front. That's what happens down the front. Always has done and always will do.
What I find offensive is people saying they "dance" when they got to a NO show. WTF?!!! I'm the only person who finds that thought faintly ridiculous?!!!! It aint an Erasure show.
I was nowhere near the front at Hyde Park, not fit enough to keep moshing for more than 30 seconds. Been there and got the t-shirt, esp at Woolwich Coronet.
GlasVegas wrote:
What a f***n daft debate anyway. If you don't wanna jump around don't go down the front. That's what happens down the front. Always has done and always will do.
Well, not in the US apparently... and obviously not at reserved seats concerts over here...
Actually depends of the show.. I've heard of crowd surfing at Moby's shows, so anything can go...
Still, it is different from places to places.. as I told in another thread, when we saw The Cure in Toronto back in 2000, most people were seated and pitching cents to people standing asking them to sit down... obviously we told them to fook off... and most of the front rows got up after a while.
But it seems those people only get up on "hits"... since the Dream Tour in 2000 was mostly a concert for hardcode fans, they were seated for a long time.
I've seen concerts in Montreal where it took 2 or 3 songs to get everybody up in the building (reserved seats in arenas), but never like that..!!
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: if you're over 30, fat as a pig and listening to a POP BAND WITH A DARK PAST, then moshing doesn't make sense. Seriously, have you considered the irony of moshing to Bizarre Love Triangle?
I think that's the problem with the new version. They've made it a papped-out pop classic to appeal to, well, people like your good self presumably?! Our more 'delicate' members? Whereas the Brotherhood version appealed more to the aggressive 'ardcore - that one's a mosh classic, all them chugging beats and that bouncy bass.
One Brain wrote: I think we should try the infamous "wall of death" at New Order gigs. LINK
that's more like the moshpits i was acquainted with in high school and my early college years. i sustained bloody noses, fat lips, bloody feet (until i bought steel-toed docs!) and numerous people landing on my head (being tall, and all)...until i realized it was uncomfortable and i hated it. pogo-ing is a much milder form of moshing. hell, it's not even moshing at all! i can pogo on occasion now, but don't get me anywhere near a moshpit.
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:
You are old, the band are basically miming to a preprogrammed set of mostly borderline gay dance anthems (despite you're claims to the contrary) and the other 20K in the audience don't find it necessary to push, shove and generally act like twats to enjoy the show. If you want moshing you should go see a band with actual energy playing agressive music. Moshing to New Order is absolutely ridiuculous. They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
Now where is that icon for the 'Kenco hand shake'?
gay athems:
worse lyrics
i indulged in some moshing to pixies at last years t in park and intend to do the same to new order this year
AgentWood wrote:
One Brain wrote: I think we should try the infamous "wall of death" at New Order gigs. LINK
that's more like the moshpits i was acquainted with in high school and my early college years. i sustained bloody noses, fat lips, bloody feet (until i bought steel-toed docs!) and numerous people landing on my head (being tall, and all)...until i realized it was uncomfortable and i hated it. pogo-ing is a much milder form of moshing. hell, it's not even moshing at all! i can pogo on occasion now, but don't get me anywhere near a moshpit.
I don't see why doing the pogo dance (so basically jumping all along) would be considered as moshing though... that's just trying to dance considering you don't have space to do it ;)
Myself I'd do the pogo HEAD (or is it pogo upper body? hum.. ) , because of my injured knee couldn't survive 90 mins of jumping ;)
Tough to say really, I watched Chicago from the side just trying to see something, and New York on the side dancing with the managers...
For New Order gigs, I don't go to the front and jump around. I prefer to be central, slightly back from the front for the following reasons:
I can't write in a mosh pit - notes for reviews are illegible if you try.
I'm certainly not fit enough any more. I used to at all the punk gigs - the last time I was up at the front with everyone was a Bad Religion gig a couple of years ago and security tried to 'remove' me for being too violent. Getting nearer to 40 slows you down.
If I'm at the front, I'd spill my beer or lose my drugs, and you can't have that at a New Order gig, can you?
It's difficult when your bird has paid for NO tickets to persuade her that if you go to the front you'll be 'back in a sec'. Tried that before and she wouldn't talk to me for a week afterwards - she couldn't find me after the gig and waited for me for nearly an hour until I remembered to text her and say which club I was in...
Have a look at PFD to see how boring no MOVEMENT can be. I'm happy for people to jump around and punch each other very hard if they wish, but nowadays, I tend to watch them and chuckle...
At hyde park I just kept a near but respectable distance and danced and sang on my own, just kept in my own private world, not moshing really, but just as much enthusiasm
NObabe wrote:
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Me thinks BLT has lost the plot.
Did it for awhile at Oakland, mostly during the first part of the set, up until True Faith (Love Vigilantes really got me going). Needed a break by then, plus the fact that my feet were taking a beating by those around me jumping up and down on them for awhile (they were discoloured somewhat the next day). I realize that's the price to be paid to be so close to the front, having seen lots of punk acts, though I bet there won't be any stage divers at a NO show anytime soon, if there ever were; getting kicked in the head by a wayward foot at a Husker Du gig was a good lesson on that front.
Moved back a bit for the rest of the set, battling those around me to keep my position, but I didn't begrudge those people too much, they were there enjoying themselves and the show the same as myself.
O
Whenever I go to concerts, or if I'm dancing in my room I do the barney dance, lol. My roommate hates it.
At Noorder concerts I always try and get as close to the front as possible. At the my first I was close enough for Mr Hook to bang his bass on my head if he wanted to. He didn't. At the ones in 2002 I managed to get in the first three rows.
Beach Boy wrote: Whenever I go to concerts, or if I'm dancing in my room I do the barney dance, lol. My roommate hates it.
Which one are you doing?
So far, there is the "running man" and the "surfer"... quite sure we can figure others ;)
NObabe wrote:
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
EVER.......
If you ain't in the RUCK ( Mosh )you ain't there, and you certainly don't get the atmosphere.
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: here's a rule of thumb to go by.
if you're under 25 and listening to a hard rock/metal/punk band, then moshing is acceptable
if you're over 30, fat as a pig and listening to a POP BAND WITH A DARK PAST, then moshing doesn't make sense. Seriously, have you considered the irony of moshing to Bizarre Love Triangle?
You are old, the band are basically miming to a preprogrammed set of mostly borderline gay dance anthems (despite you're claims to the contrary) and the other 20K in the audience don't find it necessary to push, shove and generally act like twats to enjoy the show. If you want moshing you should go see a band with actual energy playing agressive music. Moshing to New Order is absolutely ridiuculous. They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
How funny 
By the way, moshing is called POGO!
I may have made a mistake in Oakland. Usually I love to dance like a bastard at concerts but this time I dead tired, almost as never in my life. But the music was driving... Anyway it was my first NO gig and to say the truth I wanted to HEAR and to LISTEN to New Order. So I was torn between trying to dance and trying to see and listen. The combination of this enduring resulted in languid dancing and not being close to the stage.
I understand people who mosh at NO concerts - most of them have seen New Order many times, they don't need to "listen to", or to "watch" the band, since they've seen them so many times and now they have fun, but to me it was my first experience and I really wanted to see the concert as it is, to see the people whose music I've been listening so much for many years.
I think POGO is the Punk phrase, MOSH is the more recent phrase with Heavy Metal origins... kind of like screw and nookie
Given JD's origins, maybe POGO is the better phrase.
Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: here's a rule of thumb to go by.
if you're under 25 and listening to a hard rock/metal/punk band, then moshing is acceptable
if you're over 30, fat as a pig and listening to a POP BAND WITH A DARK PAST, then moshing doesn't make sense. Seriously, have you considered the irony of moshing to Bizarre Love Triangle?
There's a reason why people are upset at others barging in at the last minute and disrupting their evening. What we're seeing here is the physical divide between the "spotty students" and the "hooligans".
You are old, the band are basically miming to a preprogrammed set of mostly borderline gay dance anthems (despite you're claims to the contrary) and the other 20K in the audience don't find it necessary to push, shove and generally act like twats to enjoy the show. If you want moshing you should go see a band with actual energy playing agressive music. Moshing to New Order is absolutely ridiuculous. They are basically the Pet Shop Boys with guitars and worse lyrics.
enjoy!
Think it's that mid-atlantic divide again. Politely standing around at a concert in the UK isn't done near the front. I doubt anyone would ever have the audacity to assume they had a right to stand near the front and expect people to stand still.
no moshing ever for me. I'd be blind as a bat should anyone knock off me specs. stayed front left at Hyde Park and managed to get near the front at Werchter (for the two tracks left once we got in) but didn't see much moshing going on there.
Major, you don't have to stand still, that's not what i do at a show. As Agentwood said, Pogo-ing is non intrusive and a great way to spend your energy. The problem is with people pushing and shoving and not actually dancing but trying to disrupt others. Dancing is fine, pogoing is fine but pushing and shoving, especially when your the biggest person in the crowd is not ok.
craigy wrote: I think POGO is the Punk phrase, MOSH is the more recent phrase with Heavy Metal origins... kind of like screw and nookie
Given JD's origins, maybe POGO is the better phrase.
Isn't "AIRHEAD" also for metal shows... playing air guitar and making the long hair go 'round? 
I've only seen New Order live twice and I've never been anywhere near the front so i'm pretty much oblivious to what goes on down there (although not anymore after having read this thread :)). I really couldn't care less what people do at gigs provided they enjoy themselves but I've got to say, i'd personally rather see people jumping around like crazy than rooted to the spot and surely it's got to be better for the band to see fans down the front really getting in to it.
Spotnick wrote:
craigy wrote: I think POGO is the Punk phrase, MOSH is the more recent phrase with Heavy Metal origins... kind of like screw and nookie
Given JD's origins, maybe POGO is the better phrase.
Isn't "AIRHEAD" also for metal shows... playing air guitar and making the long hair go 'round?
Looks like NOrder moshing may decline through a process of natural selection as the fanbase ages... some of us are specky four eyes, some of us have knackered backs (me!) and some of us haven't got quite as bountiful an amount of flowing locks to do the 'Airhead' thing (me again! - joy!).
Interesting poll results though - opinion almost split down the middle.
from my view of the brits at the aragon, it didn't look like moshing, it was more of that pogo thing they do. i think there is a big difference in how the process is viewed by people. moshing in america was just plain stupid in the 90's with the grunge and punk stuff. too violent and the point was to hurt people not express yourself. but that's all ive experienced, but supposedly, mosh pits at industrial shows in the 80's weren't as violent, just pushing people around.
ive been in a few mosh pits. i was too scared to even be near the mosh pit at a deftones show and got hit in the head at a cure show in germany and broke my glasses, as far as moshing for the cure goes, it only works for the earlier songs like killing an arab, 1015, etc...
my rule of thumb for mosh pits, if i find myself near a pit, and directly on the outside, i put my elbows up, and if they run into me, push them away, people seem ok with that.
What I call "trash" is actually running into people.. so you actually hit them with yourself like you would do in american football or rugby ;)
Except the point is not to knock that person down.
I dont seem to mosh anymore,only due to being sober at the last few gig's,i drive down then drive home again after..
I don't mosh at gigs and I hate it when other people do. They always end up knocking you all over the place and hurting you (especially if you're short, like me). Don't do it!
