Why is Republic not one of the all time classics?

What is it that people DONT like about this album? I personally love the direction they went off with on this one. Republic has this relaxed energy and detached feel to it. My only real complaint was the lack of Hooky on it, the album seems more like a Barney and Gillian collaboration then anything, but that aside, the melodies are top notch.

It is a Bernard Sumner solo album with about half a dozen hours of input from the rest of the band. Gillian only contributed one word to it!

I don't think "Republic" is that bad... For my opinion it is a bit to Stephen-Haguey which makes parts of it sound like a Pet Shop Boys-Tribute album...

I can understand why people don't like it if Hook's bass is the main reason why they like New Order.

But I think Republic is one of New Order's finest moments. It's a collection some of the best song writing I've heard from this band. The dark and sombre mood of the album is really effective, and almost makes me wish New Order could be miserable more often. The production is lavish and professional, as one has come to expect from a expert like Hague.

It's classic up to Everyone Everywhere.

Regret is great. Everyone Everywhere is a classic.

World, Ruined in a Day, Spooky - totally weak as singles. The Paul van Dyk mix of Spooky (I think it's the New Order in Heaven mix) - just piss poor.

Chemical and Young Offender - suck. Sorry, I know some of you like them, but I just think they sound awful. What kind of synth were they using on this? Probably that Kurzweil K2000.

Oh gawd - Times Change - just a continuation of Barney's obsession with the idiot Brit style of rap carried on from Electronic's first album. I thought it was great for Idiot Country, but just got worse and worse elsewhere.

I like Liar, Avalanche and Special. They are decent.

for me, after ruined in a day the rest of the album melts together into one giant gay disco anthem. individually i like certain songs (everyone, everywhere, and spooky's not bad, either), but when i listen to the album straight through, nothing stands out after the first three songs.

Gillian only contributed one word to it!

I'mfuckingdonewiththisband.

I think Republic is a class album... I love it. Admittedly the album version of World is weak, and a couple the remixes of Ruined In A Day and Spooky were also superior to the album versions... but I love the dark, melodic dance sound that flows through most of the album.

To paraphrase Mr Jarvis, Republic could be New Order's best value single - a stellar A-side followed by 10 B-sides. CTB

The first half of the album is great but they seem to run out of gas at the end- still an exceptional NO album.

It delivers a timeless NO song and one of my all-time fav songs: Regret. A song that embodies a wonderful tone suggesting a middle ground for hope and despair. I love the last line of the song:

Just wait til tomorrow I guess that's what they all say Just before they fall apart

Spotnick wrote:

David Lubetsky wrote: What is it that people DONT like about this album? I personally love the direction they went off with on this one. Republic has this relaxed energy and detached feel to it. My only real complaint was the lack of Hooky on it, the album seems more like a Barney and Gillian collaboration then anything, but that aside, the melodies are top notch.

Regret aside, Hooky's bass has been toned down by Stephen Hague to the point you don't even notice it, and Hooky's bass is what makes the "New Order Sound"...

And it's a known fact that the band didn't record the album together, so people feel there is a lack of cohesion, it might be because of that... everybody did their little thing back then.

Regret is probably the error of that album, remove Regret and you have a pretty average record, let's be honest..

It's also the album that introduced us the female backing vocals we all hate so much...

And Republic's biggest problem is also that it's the follower to Technique...

very well said Nic. couldn't agree more. i for one would have loved the New Order of 1989 to have recorded Republic. the songs are generally very good...but the production couldn't be worse.

I think It's a pretty damn weak record. I had high hopes for it, mainly on the strength of Regret as a single (bought that before the album came out in America- The new order mix of that is just beautiful especially the synths at the end) plus I think since it had been four years since Technique, I was just happy to hear them again.

Hooky's non existance, bad rapping, horrible female backing vocals, Stephen Hague production (my least favorite british producer); there are loads of reasons to think its rubbish.

I did think Saville outdid himself on the artwork. Pretty sad when I remember the sleeve more than the music.

Its got Special on it, my favourite NO song - end of.

Its got Everyone Everywhere on it, a song which took me almost 10 years of listening before it "made sense" now i love it.

Its got Regret on it which is as about trademark New Order as they have and ever will do.

No way is Republic an "all time classic" but its got some more than decent tracks on it.

Republic is one of those back catalogue albums that rarely makes it to my CD player nowadays along with Movement and Brotherhood.

Republic is classic though: in terms of documenting the progressive collapse of Factory, The Hac and nearly NO themselves.

Jarvo's comment that it's a single (Regret) with 10 b-sides is correct. Republic is sub-PSB, Electronic-wannabe shit. But I hate Electronic, so there you go.

I looked at Republic in the discography, and Hooky I think it was mentioned it would have been more like technique had they recorded it together. this is pretty lame to say but, maybe if Republic was remixed and remastered and all that stuff it might end up sounding really great. New Order would probably never do that though. Otherwise I think it has some great tracks, almost everyone (except Regret ofcourse) with there own flaws.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Jarvo's comment that it's a single (Regret) with 10 b-sides is correct.

Is it? This is a good dissing soundbite but it carries very little substance! For instance, surely an album as polished as Republic has any number of potential singles. For example, World as to be one of the most commercial singles New Order have ever put out.

Secondly, how many natural singles are there on other classic albums like Power, Corruption and Lies? Possibly, Age of Consent and that's it...

after reading most of these comments, i still believe that one of republic's weaknesses is the choice of synths and sounds used at the time. probably due to stephen hague's production, but really, the sounds have such a over-produced feel to it that it just does not sound like any risks were being taken.

i have to say also that before the republic album came out, there was the regret single, which i bought on day 1 - actually, a UK copy before the american release. i was very excited to hear the new order mix of regret because it did sound different than the original version, and was excited that perhaps the new album would be similar in style and experimentation. but unfortunately, it was not.

i read somewhere afterwards that after new order did their own mix of regret, that they realized they could have and should have made republic with more experimentation in mind, rather than this over-produced sound that i'm talking about.

anyway, i have listened to movement, brotherhood and get ready many more times each than republic.

Seen this...

It's called Working Title, limited edition print by Pater Saville.

BIGINOIL wrote: Seen this...

It's called Working Title, limited edition print by Pater Saville.

Wow! Must rush out and buy this! Oh, my 5 year old has just done something similar...

sure, there's some high points e.g. Regret).

but as a whole, the album lacks edge and some of the tracks are an embarrassment.

Get Ready and WTFSC were both a little uneven, but neither were as poor as Republic.

take another listen to Technique or PC&L - i'm sure you'll change your mind :-)

the reason people dont like it is because basically its pretty shite easy really when you think about it.

NO Fan wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Jarvo's comment that it's a single (Regret) with 10 b-sides is correct.

Is it? This is a good dissing soundbite but it carries very little substance! For instance, surely an album as polished as Republic has any number of potential singles. For example, World as to be one of the most commercial singles New Order have ever put out.

Secondly, how many natural singles are there on other classic albums like Power, Corruption and Lies? Possibly, Age of Consent and that's it...

even if it did have 'any number of potential singles' on it, an album of singles does not a great album make!

(just because a song is a single doesn't mean it's good, e.g. jetstream. ;) )

Don't feel bad if you like it though. Republic is just one of those lightning rod things by NO that's a scandal to enjoy. IE: "If you like Subculture 12"/Jetstream/State of the Nation/WIM/anything on Republic except Regret- you're not a real fan."

Republic to me fits in with a very lonely and miserable time of my life (2nd year of college), hence it fit in very well. Times have changed (pun intended), but overall I still have the same opinions of the tracks.

Best- World, Young Offender, Special

OK - Ruined in a Day, Chemical, Avalanche, Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Times Change,

Piss poor - Regret (BLASPHEMY! ), Spooky

But make no mistakes, I'd pick this anyday over 60MPH, Rock the Shack, Slow Jam, Working Overtime or Run Wild!

AgentWood wrote:

NO Fan wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Jarvo's comment that it's a single (Regret) with 10 b-sides is correct.

Is it? This is a good dissing soundbite but it carries very little substance! For instance, surely an album as polished as Republic has any number of potential singles. For example, World as to be one of the most commercial singles New Order have ever put out.

Secondly, how many natural singles are there on other classic albums like Power, Corruption and Lies? Possibly, Age of Consent and that's it...

even if it did have 'any number of potential singles' on it, an album of singles does not a great album make!

(just because a song is a single doesn't mean it's good, e.g. jetstream. ;) )

Well, I'm glad you've cleared that up...

Hannett of the Apes wrote: Don't feel bad if you like it though. Republic is just one of those lightning rod things by NO that's a scandal to enjoy. IE: "If you like Subculture 12"/Jetstream/State of the Nation/WIM/anything on Republic except Regret- you're not a real fan."

I love world in motion, subculture, state of the nation and most of republic. I also own all New Orders albums, 2 videos and 2 CDs. Are there any other non-REAL fans out there like me?

It's really not THAT bad. I'd choose it over Movement! Sure, there are some mindless tracks compared to their previous choons and it doesn't register as a classic (and rightfully so), but c'mon it's better than Britney, right?

With that said, Liar was the worst track on that album. The rest I can at least (albeit, sometimes barely) tolerate. Well, Young Offender wasn't that great either, but I had no problems with Regret (of course, who would?), World (yeah, it has female vocals but fun song - Perfecto edit is the best version, in my opinion), RIAD (horrible Jamaican mixes, true, but Reunited in a Day remix makes this song enjoyable), Special (love this gem), Spooky (somewhat bland, but ok), Everyone Everywhere (underrated), Chemical (nice techno beats) and Avalanche (shades of Elegia in terms of the song mood).

It was just too bad Hooky took a LONG tea break.

Aleph via Krafty wrote: Republic to me fits in with a very lonely and miserable time of my life (2nd year of college), hence it fit in very well.

it was my sophomore year in college as well, and i did play republic quite a bit that year as i recall. since then, however, i've barely touched it. i pulled it out a few years back and put it in my car CD player for a week or so but i found myself skipping through most of the album.

DShamen wrote: ... but I love the dark, melodic dance sound that flows through most of the album.

It's great when you can find a quote in a thread & then just say 'Exactly'

CuanaD wrote:

DShamen wrote: ... but I love the dark, melodic dance sound that flows through most of the album.

It's great when you can find a quote in a thread & then just say 'Exactly'

|Exactly!

Exactly!

I like all their albums, so i dont see a problem.

NObabe wrote: Funny, I've never heard of that RepuLic album.

It's Serbian. You need to stop listening to so much Brit music; you're missing out. ;)

BIGINOIL wrote:

CuanaD wrote:

DShamen wrote: ... but I love the dark, melodic dance sound that flows through most of the album.

It's great when you can find a quote in a thread & then just say 'Exactly'

|Exactly!

It becomes bland after Young Offender, but the six tracks before that deserve to be up there in the NO canon.

Not sure anyone in the NO camp would agree, though...

Eric Wang wrote: Regret is great. Everyone Everywhere is a classic.

World, Ruined in a Day, Spooky - totally weak as singles. The Paul van Dyk mix of Spooky (I think it's the New Order in Heaven mix) - just piss poor.

Chemical and Young Offender - suck. Sorry, I know some of you like them, but I just think they sound awful. What kind of synth were they using on this? Probably that Kurzweil K2000.

Oh gawd - Times Change - just a continuation of Barney's obsession with the idiot Brit style of rap carried on from Electronic's first album. I thought it was great for Idiot Country, but just got worse and worse elsewhere.

I like Liar, Avalanche and Special. They are decent.

OOOH shock horror!! I love the Paul VAN DYK mix.It brilliantly ambient,and I love the way it builds up to a rave anthem near the end. TIMES CHANGE I disagee,I love as much as IDIOT COUNTRY if only it's got the bonus of HOOKY's bass as well. I do agree AVALANCHE and SPECIAL are excellent though.And I've have to agree as good as WORLD was,they should have released an edit of the PERFECTO mix.

Christopher Owens wrote: It becomes bland after Young Offender, but the six tracks before that deserve to be up there in the NO canon.

Not sure anyone in the NO camp would agree, though...

I've got to agree with you. I love the first half of Republic. I don't think it should be an all time classic, but it is a decent album. Plus, you've got Regret...

Hannett of the Apes wrote: Don't feel bad if you like it though. Republic is just one of those lightning rod things by NO that's a scandal to enjoy. IE: "If you like Subculture 12"/Jetstream/State of the Nation/WIM/anything on Republic except Regret- you're not a real fan."

i like World in Motion...best thing john barnes ever did

songs are good, but the album is really doesn't sounds like N.O…

karine wrote: songs are good, but the album is really doesn't sounds like N.O…

it doesnt, compared to the first five records... I guess Bernard was sick of being "indie" and wanted to be bland and mainstream... his way of rebellion. the record is sort of a Bernard solo record produced by Hague in many ways.

"Regret" is great thou, has not really even aged much... beautiful

the whole albums bores me ... i can't stand to listen to it all the way thru the second side

The songs.

Other than Regret and Special there are no classic tunes, and unlike Get Ready and WFTSC the absence of classic tunes isn't made up for by general solid quality. Instead, Republic is filled with tripe like Spooky, World, Liar, Chemical and the like. Everyone Everywhere, Special, and Regret are in my view, very fine songs, particularly the latter two, but other than that the album is one long disappoint and I think it makes perfect sense that they were at their unhappiest in this period, the songs reflect it, much like "Movement".

However, again, I will say that Regret and Special are far better tunes than really anything else they've done since Technique.

That's funny... This album came out my second year of college ,too (depressing, lonely). I've tried to listen to it since, but I just can't for some reason. Well, the guitar part in Avalance is beautiful, come on. Now, whenever I take my family on a long road trip, Substance and Technique go with us. My kids *love* BLT...

republic was a huge disappointment for me. i loved regret so f'ing much and then came this mediocore (at best) album.

there are some good songs mostly on the side 1 :ruined in a day, everyone everywhere, world. Spooky as a single?!? that was just sad. Liar is kind of a guilty pleasure for me. i know most of you Nooler's hate it, but i have to say it's pretty damn catchy. i even think the backing vocals work. oh well, you can't lay a golden egg everyday. right?

in fact, my disgust with this album peaked my interest in heavier music. the same day i bought Republic, i also purchased "slip" by quicksand and loved it. a classic harcore album. from then on i got into fugazi, drive like jehu, hammerhead, don caballero, slint. now, my taste has reverted to my old synth pop/goth rock/post punk ways. love the killers, interpol, bloc party, arcade fire, stars, kasabian, fischerspooner, lcd soundsystem, postal service, doves, faint, and of course NO as much as i ever did. it is nice to hear things to comeback 'round. i feel a bit rejuvenated. any one else feel the same way?

Regret followed by Republic = U2's Vertigo followed by HTDAAB.

Massive Attack wrote the 2nd best song on it.

Hank Wiseass© wrote: Massive Attack wrote the 2nd best song on it.

Eh??? Whats Massive Attack got to do with U2?

I think it totally lacks passion. Some great songs but overall, feels like a relationship that's being flogged to death i.e. someone just needed to be brave and say it's finished...:(

Republic and Brotherhood are the two worst records. Times Change & Broken Promise are pure shite!

I liked half of Republic (Regret, World, Ruined In A Day, Everyone Everywhere, Special) but the rest of it is a bit naff. If Times Change is the one with the rap on it, that probably is the worst New Order song ever. But I wouldn't say WFTSC doesn't have any classic songs on it. What about Who's Jo? WFTSC, Morning, Night and Day, Turn, Krafty? I even like I Told You So. They might be The Perfect Kiss but it's pretty good stuff. Shame they didn't play Turn and Morning, Night and Day live.

regret and special or good,liar is my fav on it.but the rest of the album as a isnt up to much.relly do love liar though

Regret is pretty much flawless. After that it just lacks punch. Almost no Hooky, almost no live drumming, very little guitar. It's unmistakably a New Order record, but it doesn't really sound very much like New Order.

I can't think of any tracks from that record that I strongly dislike, but I can't think of any (other than Regret) that blow me away, either.

More than anything, it sounds like the bridge between the first and second Electronic albums. Or the first and second albums by The Other Two.

Still, it's better than Get Ready.

they are all better than get ready

I haven't played it in a while, but that's because my copy won't play anymore, too many scratches, there's even some slight rust going on ! I played that album to death for years, and still love most of it. I think Special is as good as anything they've done.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Well summed up: passion. Or, as you so rightly said, an absolute lack of it.

Regret is passionate. A great ode to middle age angst.

With the rest being deliberatly (in some people's eyes) bland, there wasn't really any need for passion. It added to the atmosphere, IMO.

Matt Ramage wrote:

I did think Saville outdid himself on the artwork. Pretty sad when I remember the sleeve more than the music.

I have to disagree with you there.

I think it's his worst cover. It doesn't grab attention like Technique or Brotherhood. It seems deliberatly tacky.

Maybe he felt it suited the album.:D

Aleph via Krafty wrote: Republic to me fits in with a very lonely and miserable time of my life (2nd year of college), hence it fit in very well. Times have changed (pun intended), but overall I still have the same opinions of the tracks.

Best- World, Young Offender, Special

OK - Ruined in a Day, Chemical, Avalanche, Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Times Change,

Piss poor - Regret (BLASPHEMY! ), Spooky

But make no mistakes, I'd pick this anyday over 60MPH, Rock the Shack, Slow Jam, Working Overtime or Run Wild!

Not a rock man, are you?