Why is Republic not one of the all time classics?

What is it that people DONT like about this album? I personally love the direction they went off with on this one. Republic has this relaxed energy and detached feel to it. My only real complaint was the lack of Hooky on it, the album seems more like a Barney and Gillian collaboration then anything, but that aside, the melodies are top notch.

It is a Bernard Sumner solo album with about half a dozen hours of input from the rest of the band. Gillian only contributed one word to it!

I don't think "Republic" is that bad... For my opinion it is a bit to Stephen-Haguey which makes parts of it sound like a Pet Shop Boys-Tribute album...

I can understand why people don't like it if Hook's bass is the main reason why they like New Order.

But I think Republic is one of New Order's finest moments. It's a collection some of the best song writing I've heard from this band. The dark and sombre mood of the album is really effective, and almost makes me wish New Order could be miserable more often. The production is lavish and professional, as one has come to expect from a expert like Hague.

It's classic up to Everyone Everywhere.

Regret is great. Everyone Everywhere is a classic.

World, Ruined in a Day, Spooky - totally weak as singles. The Paul van Dyk mix of Spooky (I think it's the New Order in Heaven mix) - just piss poor.

Chemical and Young Offender - suck. Sorry, I know some of you like them, but I just think they sound awful. What kind of synth were they using on this? Probably that Kurzweil K2000.

Oh gawd - Times Change - just a continuation of Barney's obsession with the idiot Brit style of rap carried on from Electronic's first album. I thought it was great for Idiot Country, but just got worse and worse elsewhere.

I like Liar, Avalanche and Special. They are decent.

for me, after ruined in a day the rest of the album melts together into one giant gay disco anthem. individually i like certain songs (everyone, everywhere, and spooky's not bad, either), but when i listen to the album straight through, nothing stands out after the first three songs.

Gillian only contributed one word to it!

I'mfuckingdonewiththisband.

I think Republic is a class album... I love it. Admittedly the album version of World is weak, and a couple the remixes of Ruined In A Day and Spooky were also superior to the album versions... but I love the dark, melodic dance sound that flows through most of the album.

To paraphrase Mr Jarvis, Republic could be New Order's best value single - a stellar A-side followed by 10 B-sides. CTB

The first half of the album is great but they seem to run out of gas at the end- still an exceptional NO album.

It delivers a timeless NO song and one of my all-time fav songs: Regret. A song that embodies a wonderful tone suggesting a middle ground for hope and despair. I love the last line of the song:

Just wait til tomorrow I guess that's what they all say Just before they fall apart

Spotnick wrote:

David Lubetsky wrote: What is it that people DONT like about this album? I personally love the direction they went off with on this one. Republic has this relaxed energy and detached feel to it. My only real complaint was the lack of Hooky on it, the album seems more like a Barney and Gillian collaboration then anything, but that aside, the melodies are top notch.

Regret aside, Hooky's bass has been toned down by Stephen Hague to the point you don't even notice it, and Hooky's bass is what makes the "New Order Sound"...

And it's a known fact that the band didn't record the album together, so people feel there is a lack of cohesion, it might be because of that... everybody did their little thing back then.

Regret is probably the error of that album, remove Regret and you have a pretty average record, let's be honest..

It's also the album that introduced us the female backing vocals we all hate so much...

And Republic's biggest problem is also that it's the follower to Technique...

very well said Nic. couldn't agree more. i for one would have loved the New Order of 1989 to have recorded Republic. the songs are generally very good...but the production couldn't be worse.

I think It's a pretty damn weak record. I had high hopes for it, mainly on the strength of Regret as a single (bought that before the album came out in America- The new order mix of that is just beautiful especially the synths at the end) plus I think since it had been four years since Technique, I was just happy to hear them again.

Hooky's non existance, bad rapping, horrible female backing vocals, Stephen Hague production (my least favorite british producer); there are loads of reasons to think its rubbish.

I did think Saville outdid himself on the artwork. Pretty sad when I remember the sleeve more than the music.

Its got Special on it, my favourite NO song - end of.

Its got Everyone Everywhere on it, a song which took me almost 10 years of listening before it "made sense" now i love it.

Its got Regret on it which is as about trademark New Order as they have and ever will do.

No way is Republic an "all time classic" but its got some more than decent tracks on it.

Republic is one of those back catalogue albums that rarely makes it to my CD player nowadays along with Movement and Brotherhood.

Republic is classic though: in terms of documenting the progressive collapse of Factory, The Hac and nearly NO themselves.

Jarvo's comment that it's a single (Regret) with 10 b-sides is correct. Republic is sub-PSB, Electronic-wannabe shit. But I hate Electronic, so there you go.

I looked at Republic in the discography, and Hooky I think it was mentioned it would have been more like technique had they recorded it together. this is pretty lame to say but, maybe if Republic was remixed and remastered and all that stuff it might end up sounding really great. New Order would probably never do that though. Otherwise I think it has some great tracks, almost everyone (except Regret ofcourse) with there own flaws.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Jarvo's comment that it's a single (Regret) with 10 b-sides is correct.

Is it? This is a good dissing soundbite but it carries very little substance! For instance, surely an album as polished as Republic has any number of potential singles. For example, World as to be one of the most commercial singles New Order have ever put out.

Secondly, how many natural singles are there on other classic albums like Power, Corruption and Lies? Possibly, Age of Consent and that's it...

after reading most of these comments, i still believe that one of republic's weaknesses is the choice of synths and sounds used at the time. probably due to stephen hague's production, but really, the sounds have such a over-produced feel to it that it just does not sound like any risks were being taken.

i have to say also that before the republic album came out, there was the regret single, which i bought on day 1 - actually, a UK copy before the american release. i was very excited to hear the new order mix of regret because it did sound different than the original version, and was excited that perhaps the new album would be similar in style and experimentation. but unfortunately, it was not.

i read somewhere afterwards that after new order did their own mix of regret, that they realized they could have and should have made republic with more experimentation in mind, rather than this over-produced sound that i'm talking about.

anyway, i have listened to movement, brotherhood and get ready many more times each than republic.

Seen this...

It's called Working Title, limited edition print by Pater Saville.

BIGINOIL wrote: Seen this...

It's called Working Title, limited edition print by Pater Saville.

Wow! Must rush out and buy this! Oh, my 5 year old has just done something similar...

sure, there's some high points e.g. Regret).

but as a whole, the album lacks edge and some of the tracks are an embarrassment.

Get Ready and WTFSC were both a little uneven, but neither were as poor as Republic.

take another listen to Technique or PC&L - i'm sure you'll change your mind :-)

the reason people dont like it is because basically its pretty shite easy really when you think about it.