When was New Order's peak?

...1985 - from cock to kiss - there were the most memorable moments !...

1984 March thru August.

It was January, 1963.....

1986, gig-wise anyway, they were trying different shit, even though Brotherhood was crapily produced i still think twas a good vintage year for the Order

I've come around to the technique era, 1989. Nothing can beat that album I've decided, too interesting an album. the passion, the energy, etc. What about the live shows? How good were they? I wouldn't know, but I'd like to know.

1987 - Substance (True Faith & co)

i'd Say after 1989 they werent as great, maybee its just me but life in general seemed a lot different After 1989

1989 was the big, wet, heaving climax, then began the Falling Action.

2001 onwards is the sequel that sacrifices some spontaneity for the warm glow of familiarity.

Hannett of the Apes wrote: 1989 was the big, wet, heaving climax, then began the Falling Action.

2001 onwards is the sequel that sacrifices some spontaneity for the warm glow of familiarity.

That is the perfect way to phrase it.

1989 for me as well.

Beach Boy wrote: What about the live shows? How good were they? I wouldn't know, but I'd like to know.

Live shows: between December 1988 and the end of 1989 the UK had 4 shows GMex, SECC, NEC and Reading festival(plus 4 tracks recorded for Big World Cafe), poor old neglected North America had 35+ so its probably a question to ask your side of the pond.

For me, the gigs were excellent (superb lighting) but didn't match up to 1986 or 1987. Good as Technique is, it isn't my favourite album and I prefer to hear other tracks live. 1987 got my vote because they were at their best live.

Spotnick wrote: What amazes me when people say it started to go downhill in 1989, well, they have reached their only #1 in career in 1990 ;)

...nah ! - it's not because of WIM, it's because of the rapping Gascoigne dude - it had to be the No.1...

1987--they'd released three very good LPs (after movement, that is) and a number of excellent EPs and singles over the last few years, they released substance that year, and came out with true faith to top it off. a fine vintage.

It's basically been downhill since 83.

It hasn't happened yet. The 2006 album is going blow the shit out of everything you've ever heard them do. Their world tour will take about a year, which will entail 20 songs a night - 5 of which will come off the new album - and Otto Q. will be left in a warehouse in Manchester this time around. It will be the ultimate swan song and will go down as one of the greatest culminations of a band's career.

LE Roberts wrote: It hasn't happened yet. The 2006 album is going blow the shit out of everything you've ever heard them do. Their world tour will take about a year, which will entail 20 songs a night - 5 of which will come off the new album - and Otto Q. will be left in a warehouse in Manchester this time around. It will be the ultimate swan song and will go down as one of the greatest culminations of a band's career.

You have been DRINKING again!Get yourself a KFC mate.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere. Acutally, it's 5 o'clock here! :D

voted 1989 - but i'm not entirely comfortable with naming the year they peaked; for one reason, i have the sneaking suspicion it coincides with the year i peaked and have also been going downhill ever since. ;) besides, who knows what they'll turn out in 2006? could be brilliant

it coincides with the year i peaked

Uh, who wants to take this one?

They may peek to high heights again! Bands have pulled it off!

Actually, they have an interesting position right now. One hit would/could jetison them further than ever. Ya never know.

LE Roberts wrote: It hasn't happened yet. The 2006 album is going blow the shit out of everything you've ever heard them do. Their world tour will take about a year, which will entail 20 songs a night - 5 of which will come off the new album - and Otto Q. will be left in a warehouse in Manchester this time around. It will be the ultimate swan song and will go down as one of the greatest culminations of a band's career.

1989 - Dance music cements it's place on the music scene and the never to be topped Technique is released.

As a rock band - 1981

As a pop band - 1989

To those of us who have been with the band since the beginning, it meant so much to hear them comeback in early 1981 with the Ceremony/IALP single, to pay tribute to Ian and give them time to write and record new material.

Procession/Everything's Gone Green indicated the two completely different sounds the band could master, and the extended 12" version of EGG is just sensational and pointed them in the direction of Temptation.

Although Movement has its critics, the guitar and bass on Dreams Never End are amongst the finest things the band has ever done - even if the vocals let the song down a lot. Chosen Time is IMHO fantastic.

Finally came Cries & Whispers and Mesh which are also quality songs.

Seing them live was also more of an experience - no "Come Ons" or "Whoops" or whistles. The Taras Schevchenko video represents what the band were then.

As for 1989 and Technique - superb, most consistent album and a wholly new sound. Not surpassed since, and I don't expect it ever will now.

Gave 81 the overall nod because it was just so brilliant to have them back creating music that meant so much and sounded different to every other band.

AgentWood wrote: 1987--they'd released three very good LPs (after movement, that is) and a number of excellent EPs and singles over the last few years, they released substance that year, and came out with true faith to top it off. a fine vintage.

Couldn't agree more. Although the GMEX 88 gig was one of the best IMHO the 89 shows were I felt a bit flat regardless of the excellent album released that January.

It depends on the context. From a live show perspective, I would argue that the end of 1985 was about as good as it ever got, a huge back catalogue of songs still in the rotation, new songs being added, plus a smattering of JD songs to really keep us on our toes. From a recorded output perspective, 1987 saw Substance to back up the already solid four albums, and brought us two excellent singles. Technique may have been their most accomplished production job, but some of the songs on Technique are not up to scratch to these ears. Since 1989 they have been patchy in all honesty, some wonderful songs that have ended up on albums containing several tunes that would previously have been binned.

Let's face it though, their inconsistency is one of the most endearing features!

Let's face it though, their inconsistency is one of the most endearing features!

Incredibly true. A band that spits out songs "Rock the Shack" and "Slow Jam" returns 3 1/2 years later with "Turn" and "WFTSC". It's almost ludicrous how much talent is there when they feel like putting the effort forth to showcase it.

henke 7 wrote: As a rock band - 1981

As a pop band - 1989

To those of us who have been with the band since the beginning, it meant so much to hear them comeback in early 1981 with the Ceremony/IALP single, to pay tribute to Ian and give them time to write and record new material.

Procession/Everything's Gone Green indicated the two completely different sounds the band could master, and the extended 12" version of EGG is just sensational and pointed them in the direction of Temptation.

Although Movement has its critics, the guitar and bass on Dreams Never End are amongst the finest things the band has ever done - even if the vocals let the song down a lot. Chosen Time is IMHO fantastic.

Finally came Cries & Whispers and Mesh which are also quality songs.

Seing them live was also more of an experience - no "Come Ons" or "Whoops" or whistles. The Taras Schevchenko video represents what the band were then.

As for 1989 and Technique - superb, most consistent album and a wholly new sound. Not surpassed since, and I don't expect it ever will now.

Gave 81 the overall nod because it was just so brilliant to have them back creating music that meant so much and sounded different to every other band.

Although I only got into New Order in 1987 I like your "balanced" views. And agree with you on the 89 pop era (even though I voted for 87 with substance, new workings on temptation and confusion, plus true faith and TBTHOG).

There are too many people (out there) that have their heads too far up New Orders arse to actually step back and make an honest assessment of the band (IMO).

I went for 1987. But believe the peak lasted from 87 to about 90. Since 87 everything was turned up a gear, I stil think Low-Life and Brotherhood are fantastic albums though, and Regret is also the band at it's peak, but many will not agree that the Republic era was the band at their peak. Their best stuff for me was mid 80's till 1990. But thinking about it, all their stuff is great. And of course, how can I forget Technique, amazing.

i picked 1990: #1 single (silly, but quite genius), just coming off technique, writing republic, writing electronic, letting go of being in charge of their own 12 inch records (a bad move, but then again, that would be the end of their peak...) they would never be as high as they were in 1990 ever again, as far as talent, writing, or sound.

Obviously it was 1987. That was the year when New Order finally found themselves nationally and globally acknowledged, with the help of Substance and True Faith video. Indeed the video summed up it all by the time: huge crowds at concerts, a collaboration with what's-his-name director, the lyrics. This video is a signature for New Order and always will be.

Besides True Faith the year saw 1967, Touched By The Hand Of God, re-recording of Confusion and Temptation, extensive touring, Wembley concert (is it right? or that was Glastonbury?). BLT 12" also could be included since it was released in the end of 1986.

I see 1989 is the winner here but technically all Technique songs were written and recorded in 1988. The first half of 1989 was spent in tours and the second half saw Bernard busy with his first Electronic production. :)

Shug wrote: 89!

Saw Technique go straight into the album charts at Numero Uno (when sales meant something) they gave us unforgetable TOTP appearances in Fine Time (technically 88 but who gives a fuck?) and Round & Round, possibly their best ever interview on Snub, throw in a magic performance on Big World Cafe and I got to see em for the first time at the NEC. You could even add that one of their greatest live performances happened this year READING 89 is wonderful.

I rest ma case m'lud.

1983 saw them release their best known and biggest selling single and their best album. They've never topped that year.

There's no such thing as straight disco.

If there's no straight disco, what is gay disco then? Can anyone enlighten us?

Surely their peak is the present as they have never dipped, maybe hit a few plateaus, but the power keeps increasing for me.

as we're supposed to pin it down to a particular year, it'd have to be 1984 for me, the year of TPK.

henke 7 wrote: As a rock band - 1981

As a pop band - 1989

To those of us who have been with the band since the beginning, it meant so much to hear them comeback in early 1981 with the Ceremony/IALP single, to pay tribute to Ian and give them time to write and record new material.

Procession/Everything's Gone Green indicated the two completely different sounds the band could master, and the extended 12" version of EGG is just sensational and pointed them in the direction of Temptation.

Although Movement has its critics, the guitar and bass on Dreams Never End are amongst the finest things the band has ever done - even if the vocals let the song down a lot. Chosen Time is IMHO fantastic.

Finally came Cries & Whispers and Mesh which are also quality songs.

Seing them live was also more of an experience - no "Come Ons" or "Whoops" or whistles. The Taras Schevchenko video represents what the band were then.

As for 1989 and Technique - superb, most consistent album and a wholly new sound. Not surpassed since, and I don't expect it ever will now.

Gave 81 the overall nod because it was just so brilliant to have them back creating music that meant so much and sounded different to every other band.

Well said. I agree with pretty much everything here. I had the live experience in mind as well as studio work, so I voted 1983. I also wanted to encompass Blue Monday. Great risk-taking sets, a fantastic and expanding catalogue, still playing songs from Movement (yay!) and prepared to surprise us with a work-in-progress.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Obviously it was 1987. That was the year when New Order finally found themselves nationally and globally acknowledged, with the help of Substance and True Faith video. Indeed the video summed up it all by the time: huge crowds at concerts, a collaboration with what's-his-name director, the lyrics. This video is a signature for New Order and always will be.

Besides True Faith the year saw 1967, Touched By The Hand Of God, re-recording of Confusion and Temptation, extensive touring, Wembley concert (is it right? or that was Glastonbury?). BLT 12" also could be included since it was released in the end of 1986.

Totally agree.

def. in the 80's but too much to think about, so i'll pass on this one. Nobody was making music like NO in this time period. I wouldn't base it on commercial sucess but artistic genius.

"Cries and Whispers is a great revelation because everyone thinks it's called Mesh. But it isn't. It was mislabelled in 1987 and nobody ever noticed" - Steve Morris.:) Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I've voted for 1989 but I think it was from 1987 to 1990. True Faith and substance were great and Technique was the best album. World in motion was their only UK number 1 chart it's not one of new order's best songs but it is one of the best football anthems of all time. TBTHOG (1988)is a great song and Vanishing Point (1989) is their most forgotten song.

83-85 .PC&L ,Thieves,Low Life.

89 for sure! Major WW tour after Technique (last major one I believe) and the descent began into 93. It was a hell of a ride, and I'm back on the new train!

1989, the year I really began to appreciate what Joy Division had become...

1989, baby! You got lurve technique.

I went for '82. Songs from Movement had evolved in a live context aided by Mr Albrecht's improved vocals and were free of Hannett's poor production. Killer embroyonic live versions of Power, Corruption and Lies numbers such as 586 and We All Stand. Increased use of delay effects and samples served up at many gigs including blinding gigs in Milan and Bologna. Interesting Peel session indicating their new direction.

Tough call between 1984 and 1985 for me. Going for '85 in the end as that year had pretty much everything including, as Tim said, some of NO's best live performances ever, a mixture of old and new in the sets, the release of Low-Life and the last time I saw them before Hyde Park this year. '84 had TPK, RFH, Decades, Lonesome Tonight and the summer tour so that's a damn close second.

Early to mid 80's can't really be any more specific than that. The sheer power, innovation and originality displayed on Factus 81/82, PCL and some of the one-off singles around that period blow evrything else out of the water. Post 87 they kinda lost something for me, their quirkiness for want of a better expression, and dare I say it their mystique, seemed to go with Technique.

1987 they came out with alotta good songs that year.. and it was before all those tensions within the band began.

I've voted 1981, but not for Movement, but for the mad live shows where they experimented with electro. The early performances of EGG and Temptation are their absolute artistic peak, there's a wild sheer inventiveness at work in those drugs fuelled brains. Other years have come close: 1983 because the evolution reached a heigth with Blue Monday, 1987 for True Faith and being part of a mature and very important scene with The Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode and others, like a 10 years period started with punk coming to a heigth... 1989 for Technique... but also 1998 for the fantastic comeback concerts, and I'd also say 2005 for releasing an album as good as WFTSC almost at 50 and adding Phil to the line up giving new life to the band... But nothing like that primal spark of fury and genius we see in the 1981 gigs...

I think they got one more mountain to climb and is all over

((((e))))

The Saviour wrote:

Spotnick wrote: What amazes me when people say it started to go downhill in 1989, well, they have reached their only #1 in career in 1990 ;)

...nah ! - it's not because of WIM, it's because of the rapping Gascoigne dude - it had to be the No.1...

you mean john barnes

...what did you expect from a continental european dude ?...

Peak- 1987

Sustained throughout 1988 (TBTHOG)

Fall begins with Fine Time. (apologies to all the Technique lovers)

Great stuff since, but before 1988 it seemed that everything was memorable and great.

(I love Brotherhood- it stands better in my collection than Technique does)

'89 - they produced, in my opinion, their best and most-consistent album. I enjoyed all of the singles, the artwork/logos, and they put on a great show to a sellout crowd in Mesa, AZ. True Faith and Blue Monday '88 were still getting plenty of airplay, along with Fine Time. The old classics still weren't too old at the time, and it felt like New Order was leading the way with Technique going into the '90's.

1002

One word says it all. Technique

1981-89 years were their best.

For me, the 1982 12" release of Temptation can't be topped. 7" version not too shabby, either.

I first saw them live in 1983 in Detroit at St. Andrew's Hall.

Depressing...

I'd say somewhere between brotherhood and substance, so 86/87 but then they're the sort of band that can keep coming up with "mini-peaks" if you know what i mean

I chose 1987 simply because of Substance 1987. They could do no wrong at this stage of their career.

's funny, 'cos from my little humble point of view, i do so agree with... Quite a lot of you actually !!! But as an old timer (been listenin' to Them for ages)and as i LOVE everything NewOrder from '8o to '98 (Gold premium era), i was so pleased when they came back with Geat Ready in 2oo1 as, for little old me, it was a stunner. Why did i choose today as their peak then ? simply 'cos, as dear old Hooky stated once about the band : '... again, it's all very exciting, tryin' to do it, and at the end, it all remain to be seen, but where there's a will, there's a way...' Nuff'said Pete, i believe that NewOrder still have all it takes to really surprise us, and besides, this year gigs (from what i read in this forum + i was@London Hyde Park last june) were fuckin' brilliant !! So let's see...

89

1987 or 88