Backing Singers - good or bad?

I thought I'd post this topic seeing as a debate was going on in another thread elsewhere about backing vocals on New Order songs. My opinion being that they stink. I hate backing vocals on NO records - they're just not necessary and all they do is make the tunes sound syrupy or tacky, the worst examples are Subculture (the horrid John Roby remix version), Shame of the Nation, Liar, The Price of Love, Someone like you, and...god I can't recall how many - what others are there? Backing singers just make me think of the eighties for some reason - all those godawful bands with their three token black chicks backing them up or suchlike - the Spandau Ballets and Curiosity Killed The Cats of this world come to mind.... Ewwwwgh!! Anyway, I think NO should sack the backing singers, even Crystal is ruined with them, and that's one of the better songs the band have done. What does anyone else think about it?

The backing vocals on World and Crystal are superfluous while the backing vocals on Liar and Someone Like You add to the meaning of the song. I imagine the female voice in SLY is the object of the speakers desire and during the chorus they come together. When Barney comes in behind the female voice ("...Yeah") and they finish the chorus together, i find it touching. The backing vocals in Liar (doo doo dodo doo) are so non chalant that the harshness of Barney's words seem even crueler.

Subculture is almost unlistenable with the background singers. I wish new order had done a full version without the singers. The one on LowLife is too short. The Record Mirror Mix is the closest thing to perfection i've heard as far as SubCulture is concerned.

The Lee Coombs Mix of Crystal is almost better than the album version because there are no backing vocals.

Correct me if i'm wrong but hasnt Gillian done some backing vocals on a few NewOrder tracks - im sure i read it somewhere, though I cant for the life of me remember what songs....

Almost always bad, but I do like the female vocal that opens the Perfecto mix of World.

Fire bad. Backing vocals bad.

The posts above say it all. When did the cancer of session backup vocalists infest New Order? Was the unlistenable Subculture remix the first? The vocals add absolutely nothing to Crystal and serve only to play up the suckworthiness of the superfluous lyrics. Same with World. Barney's lyrics should escape no lips but his own.

"Just tell me what I got to do...Whenever you're here with me..."

Um, shut up.

Originally posted by Inta Don Correct me if i'm wrong but hasnt Gillian done some backing vocals on a few NewOrder tracks - im sure i read it somewhere, though I cant for the life of me remember what songs....

I guess Gillian sings on "Someone like you", "Avalanche" and this track on the "Movement"-album where she shares vocals with Hooky..."Doubts even here"?

I think John Robie started it all. The cheesy female backing vocals first occured on Shellshock and the Robie remix of State. Stephen Hague continued it. The backing vocals on Republic (especially on World) really annoyed me the first few times I listened to is. Another shocker: the TWA-remix of True Faith.

I like them

Well I didn't want to be the firsrt to say it for fear of being laughed at, but I prefer the subculture version with the backing singer sewing machines.

Me too

Nice ass but is it a Wiseass© ?

Originally posted by Young Offender I think John Robie started it all. The cheesy female backing vocals first occured on Shellshock and the Robie remix of State. Stephen Hague continued it. The backing vocals on Republic (especially on World) really annoyed me the first few times I listened to is. Another shocker: the TWA-remix of True Faith.

It was John Robie, but wasn't the 12 inch of Sub-culture released earlier than Shellshock? I think Sub-culture was the first where the female backing vocals appeared. Musically the Sub-Culture is very good, but the vocals spoil it.

Anyway the one I dislike the most is that bird that sings along on Turn My Way....who is she?? :D

Yeah - agree with everyone against the notion of unnecessary backing vocals on New Order songs. I was shocked when I first heard that truly dire John robie mix of SubCulture - it were really awful, especially all that stuttering that happens halfway through on the 12" - went on forbloodyever that one! And on World, the backing vocals were rerecorded for the Perfecto Mix werne't thay? They sounded even louder and more obtrusive as a result. Someone should have a quiet word in Barney and co's ears....backing vocals to me are so......respectable and middle aged (well, I suppose that's where NO are at now aren't they?? - difficult bastards and rebels no more!!! I also hated Someone like You mainly because of those cheesey backing vocals....

Todd

Backing vocals? Pah! Who need's 'em? What the Order really need are a few folkies who can add a whole new dimension to their sound, soup it up to another level, so to speak. I recommend the mighty St. Austell Morris Dancing Instrumental Troupe who I'm sure will not hesitate to offer their services at a most respectibly competitive rate, should Barney's yokels ever feel the need to reconvene for a bit of...um... serious soyder imbibement ... and they come free with bells attached too. Now what fool couldn't resist such a tempting offer then...?

Actually, it wouldn't have been so bad if Gillian herself did contribute more backing vocals, instead of using these soulless hired-hands all the time. I know she's there on a few songs - Procession, Doubts Even Here, Avalanche, and (I think) Perfect Kiss (though don't count on that), but then she did launch the Other Two as a vehicle for herself to sing her own material with Stephen instead.

I must say I like a backing vocal or 2. The only record where it doesn't seem to fit is the 12" of Sub-culture.

It works really well on SLY, World and Shame of the Nation. Perhaps it would be more interesting if they used a more 'earthy' backing singer next time rather than the usual 'soul diva' type.

I don't have a problem with backing singers myself.

It is just another angle of their music, it enhances the experience, so to speak

Sorry, but the backing vocals on "Liar" and "SubCulture" (the latter a truly horrendous experience thanks to John Robie) do not enhance one's experience of New Order in anyway whatsoever - unless by "enhance" you really mean "gorgonzola'd up".

Is it too late to change my vote? I finally tracked down "Run This River Dry/Sabotage," and the session vocals on that track are great. (Due in large part, probably, to the fact that they don't simply echo really bad lyrics.)

I really like this track.

By the way, my long-time standard has been that, as soon as you introduce backup vocalists into your live act, you're over. Give me an exception.

Am I the only one here who didn't really reckon much of the female voacls on "Crystal" then (the ones that go: "...hooooo!!!.....heeyyyyyy!!!....hooooooo!!!!......" in particular.)

Originally posted by Hubert Mickle Actually, it wouldn't have been so bad if Gillian herself did contribute more backing vocals, instead of using these soulless hired-hands all the time. I know she's there on a few songs - Procession, Doubts Even Here, Avalanche, and (I think) Perfect Kiss (though don't count on that), but then she did launch the Other Two as a vehicle for herself to sing her own material with Stephen instead.

That's not Gillian on Perfect Kiss !! It's the Budweiser Frogs !!

Todd, I reckon the Lee Coombs mix is so good because he left out the backing vocals. New Order should get back to being neworder and not the major label incarnation of the Order. I wonder what the breakdown is for singles with and without backing vocals. Anyone care to list em?

Okay G.H. I'll try that challenge and attempt to list them. Singles WITH backing vocals that is... Any glaring ommissions please feel free to correct me.

Subculture (John robie) 12" Shellshock 12" Shame Of The Nation 12" World (The Price of Love) Someone Like you 12" Crystal

that is far less than I initially feared - most of the rest are probably album tracks anyway. How did i do? :D

I like when Bernard's voice is layered with effects for the backing vocals. Or Gillian. That may correct some issues they have interacting as Band. Everyone gets to do something important.

Do you think the band decides to put backing singers on their songs or is that a decision the producer "helps" them make? Why don't neworder use delay to accent parts of the vocal?

I know that the most obvious New Order record where a lot of vocals are mixed together is "Brotherhood" - Barney has two or three seperate vocal tracks on "Paradise" alone - he's providing the backing voacals on most of these songs in actual fact. "Weirdo" and "Angel dust" are two other examplse. I think this is what led to a lot of people criticising this record's dense production in some older thraed a couple of months ago.

Originally posted by Todd (Ben Sweeney) Am I the only one here who didn't really reckon much of the female voacls on "Crystal" then (the ones that go:"...hooooo!!!.....heeyyyyyy!!!....hooooooo!!!!......" in particular.)

Too right Benji Todd - I find them particularly grating too - spoiling an otherwise great New order song. I just wish they knew where to draw the line when it comes to backing vocals....or banish them outright. They're so passé now in the scheme of things anyroad....

World without the backup vocals would seem empty to me. They should make an instrumental of Subculture though if they haven't already. Speaking of, what's the difference between Subvulture and the Substance mix of Subculture?

Originally posted by Logan Edwards World without the backup vocals would seem empty to me. They should make an instrumental of Subculture though if they haven't already. Speaking of, what's the difference between Subvulture and the Substance mix of Subculture?

A "D"

Originally posted by Logan Edwards World without the backup vocals would seem empty to me. They should make an instrumental of Subculture though if they haven't already. Speaking of, what's the difference between Subvulture and the Substance mix of Subculture?

Dub-Vulture, not Sub-vulture. Well, it's a dub version of the Substance version of Sub-culture, a little remixed and without Barney's voice (only the backing singer's voice remains).

"John Robie must DIE!"

Robie did the RM mix of Sub-culture though as well so he can probably be let off.

Those backing vocals on Sub-culture 12" were Barney's fault - he insisted on them !

Then he should be severely punished for inflicting such a heinous crime...!!!