Run2: the future

When the late John Denver reached his out-of-court settlement with New Order over the ‘plagiarising’ of Leaving on a Jet Plane in Run2, he ensured that the song won’t be released in any other format again.

In theory.

Current EU regulation states (unless something has changed recently) that copyright lasts for 50 years, which is why, for example, we’ve seen the hurried re-release of several Elvis tunes before the copyright ran out. As of January 1 of this year, a whole mess of his 1954-copyrighted stuff is now royalty-free, with more stuff falling out of copyright every year.

Now, since Leaving on a Jet Plane was copyrighted in 1967, theoretically it becomes royalty-free in 2017. Does this mean I will be able to listen to Run2 in remastered, non-crackly, digital form on a freshly minted NO compilation in just eleven-and-a-half years time, rather than dusting off my 12” any time I want to listen to it?

… or do I, in fact, have to wait another 60 years – 70 years after Denver left us in a propeller plane – for the songwriting copyright to expire?

Just listen to the Technique version and add imagination...

I'm sure something more important will come to distract you between now and 2017!

The master tape of Run2 was "accidentally damaged" around the time of the settlement - or so the story goes...

The master tape of Run2 was "accidentally damaged" around the time of the settlement - or so the story goes...

I guess they've got six decades in which to complete repairs. Someone give Scott Litt some sellotape and a razorblade...

"Damaged" on the way to Hooky's vault (which doesn't exist) allegedly.

..or if Run 2 appears on the new DVD you could always rip the audio.

FAR more important would be to get a crispy digi copy of MTO cos it's great (not the Minus Mix though)

2017 isn't that far away.

But I'm lazy AND impatient (hence my unparalelled success with the laydeez)...

Will eventually get round to digitising my 1989-era NO vinyl and creating a (semi-)comprehensive Technique-with-bells-on, including all the b-sides and remixes in a rereleased/remastered PSB album stylee... one day. Possibly before 2017.

Possibly.

Also harbouring fantasy of revised Substance with all the unedited/non-updated versions of the tracks. But let's not walk before we can Run2, eh?

Boom boom!

I was under the impression that copyright lasts for 50 years after the artists death? all the elvis re releases were to mark his 70th birthday.

I may be wrong.

I checked at the Elvis site, which says that copyright for recorded versions of tunes (the earliest well-known Elvis dates from 1954) last 50 years in the EU - not sure about elsewhere - while songwriting credits last for 70 years after the songwriters death.

Example - in 40 years time, the Frente version of Bizarre Love Triangle will become copyright-free - 50 years after it was recorded - but you still need permission to use it from Barney, Hooky, Steve and Gillian and must pay them royalties accordingly, and would have to do so until 70 years after the last one of them shuffles off this mortal coil (many years from now, I hope).

The whole 70th birthday thing was just an excuse...

That's my understanding - but I've been wrong before. (I thought the Elgin marbles were, you know, marbles - little round balls of glass beloved of impish schoolchildren - for years. The SHAME.)

this may sound really stupid, but whats the difference between Run and Run2? And why didn't Run get included in the lawsuit?

I've got the MP3. They add a programmed drum pattern and stretch the song out into an acid house-lite tune.

Old Blue wrote: The master tape of Run2 was "accidentally damaged" around the time of the settlement - or so the story goes...

Is this why we always get the 7" version of Run2 on compilations rather than the 12"?!

Tony Wilson said (after confiring with Rob back in 1995 or so) that they turned over the Run 2 master tape to Warners. End of story.

Both Run 2 and MTO can be found on the "Excerpts from Recycle" disc BTW.

t

Both Run 2 and MTO can be found on the "Excerpts from Recycle" disc BTW.

What disc is that? a boot I pesume.

OK Ok

Run2, or at least the 7# version of it will make an uncredited appearance on Item. Yes the vid version is Run2.

Hannett of the Apes wrote: I've got the MP3. They add a programmed drum pattern and stretch the song out into an acid house-lite tune.

Common misconception this. There were two versions of 'Run 2' on the 12". What you're talking about is the 'Extended Version'. 'Run 2' was a slightly shoter 'Technique' mix with different levels/effects. What has appeared on compilations as 'Run 2', isn't 'Run 2' - just 'Run' from Technique.

Not a lot of difference in the versions, guess they just called it 'Run 2' as a quirky was of not calling it 'Run (Radio Edit)'! I assumed the Denver verdict covered 'Run' and 'Run 2', and that they just pay his estate some dosh when it appears on things like 'The Best of...'

Andy

Mr Discography wrote:

I assumed the Denver verdict covered 'Run' and 'Run 2', and that they just pay his estate some dosh when it appears on things like 'The Best of...'

Andy

On the Best Of, although the song is credited "Written and produced By New Order", the publishing rights are listed as belonging to Warner Chappel Music Ltd (New Order's publishing house) and Cherry Lane Music Publishing Company Inc (Denver's publishing company!). Funny, eh?

The Factory single wasn't pulled at all. At the time, they just did a typically "New Order" thing, and only released 20,000 copies, just on 12" (with a few promo 7" singles going to stations).

The legal case came quite some time after the single's release, if I recall. It was certainly intended as a limited edition release at the time. I don't think they ever intended to repress it.

Andy

i think the point of the compromise about Run2/ Run was that New Order should not profit off of the song as a single, or promote the song as a single, more or less

MTO is an attempt to make a more traditional "acid house" track, and to be honest is not terribly essential or groundbreaking, thou makes an interesting footnote to "Fine Time"... i wonder who did it.
the Minus mix is a remix by a real acid producer i think, thou doesnt seem terribly inspired but is better than the first MTO

Nah, it was never "pulled". I remember myself and two mates rushing to HMV to buy it when it came out, as we knew in advance there's only be 20,000 copies and no other formats.

At least Saville credited the design as being "after Bold" on the sleeve. more than New Order did with the writing credits!

Andy

Mr Discography wrote: The Factory single wasn't pulled at all. At the time, they just did a typically "New Order" thing, and only released 20,000 copies, just on 12" (with a few promo 7" singles going to stations).

The legal case came quite some time after the single's release, if I recall. It was certainly intended as a limited edition release at the time. I don't think they ever intended to repress it.

Andy

Recall a very stroppy letter sent to the NME by one disgruntled fan at the time which went something along the lines of "Thanks, Factory. So 19000 fucking Mancs get their grubby mitts on the new single leaving only 1000 for the rest of us plebs to share around".

Had no problem picking up a copy at the much-missed Lotus Records in Hanley, Stoke-on-Trent.

It was the last single off Technique, wasn't it? Defo a limited 12" only release. The artwork is particularly nice as the inside of the cover is gold rather than plain cardboard. The promo 7" was only a 500 pressing I think.

As for MTO, I was always led to believe that it was simply a load of out-takes from Technique that Steve Morris had left over on his Mac and spent 5 - 10 minutes glueing together to make a "song".

Just wondering what the going price for the 7" promo is nowadays.

I remember picking it up in some record fair in Berlin around 10 years ago, paying around DM 15 ($ 7.5).

Funnily enough I stumbled at a mint copy of the Run 12" in Israel at that time. That one I picked for around $2 ...

Bear with me - young and not yet alive at the time so am a bit confused.

Run was accused of being a rip off of leaving on a jet plane, yes? Lost the lawsuit, right?

Why was You can fly by the other two pulled? It' s not contraversial at all.

Run is probably my fave NO song. Tying with many others of course. But i cant see how it would flop or anything like that. I'm sort of lost and a bit stumped as to why you can fly was pulled. Can anyone help me?

mil wrote: Bear with me - young and not yet alive at the time so am a bit confused.

Run was accused of being a rip off of leaving on a jet plane, yes? Lost the lawsuit, right?

Why was You can fly by the other two pulled? It' s not contraversial at all.

Run is probably my fave NO song. Tying with many others of course. But i cant see how it would flop or anything like that. I'm sort of lost and a bit stumped as to why you can fly was pulled. Can anyone help me?

'You can fly' - TO2 was pulled, I think, because the record company dropped the other two around that time (similar tale, I think, for Electronic's 'Late at Night').

You can fly has nothing to do with Run2 though, unless i'm in the dark here...

thanks for the reply digitalwaters.

only mentioned TOT because someone mentioned it earlier in the tread which made me doubly confused.

Everyday I learn a litlle bit more of the complicated world of NO.....

Aw fcuk it!.ive got the 12" with the the Bold sleeve.Ill dig it out and have a listen to the shorter version.Never could decide whether i prefered it from the Technique version though.Each has their merits.The 12" is shit with them break beats at the start.I like break beats but not on a song like Run

I've always liked this song, and the video, however the Afrika Bambaata 12" mix was dreadful. The history of John Denver judgement aside, I would love to hear a proper remix of this. Which DJ/Producer/Remixer would do justice to this?