another best of? 7" singles comp...

check out this link: http://www.neworder.1nd.de/forum/index.php?topic=372.0

another best of, eh? is this a german thing only? 7" comp might be interesting, as i only have the 12" versions of stuff not on albums. i wonder if the 7" versions differ all that much in a lot of cases. it might be worth buying, but i dunno.
it's strange that this hasn't come up here... or has it?

Again...mine will be better!

Trust me

((((e))))

Interesting that we will finally get Temptation 7" on CD & the original Ceremony too

Yup I got em both and the original MESH which was a B-side to cries and whispers 12 inch.

= )

oh... from the looks of it, this is a dutch site... very strange. i wonder...

Played the Ceremony 7" on a CD player for the first time ever the other day after downloading it from Soulseek and burning it.Sounds superb.Can hardly hear and needle noise whatsoever.

Warner Germany has confirmed the release of this "Best of". http://www.neworder.de

((((e)))) wrote: the original MESH which was a B-side to cries and whispers 12 inch.

= )

No, it wasn't; both tracks were b-sides to EGG 12", and both are already available on CD, on Substance and Retro CTB

Interesting that we will finally get Temptation 7" on CD & the original Ceremony too

...note that it says jan 81 for Ceremony, could be the release date although that was march, was the second version recorded after this date?

This is seriously the last chance to get it right over the two versions of Ceremony, if it's the re-recorded version then I'd give up ever getting it on CD (officially).

The release of Ceremony 7" was January 1981. It's correct.

No Blue Monday 95 :(

While it's hardly their most essential single release ever, and I can understand them not wanting THREE BM mixes on the CDs, I still wish it was there -- because it's now an ALMOST complete collection. Sigh.

Wow.

Worth picking up for Ceremony and Temptation alone!

Svenner wrote: Warner Germany has confirmed the release of this "Best of". http://www.neworder.de

And has the "Iten" (ups, I'm going brazilian on this one!) tracklisting with "BM" as the opener and no "BM 88"...

Ah the real Retro/Recycle.

Mmm... Wonder if this will be just a European or international release like, erm, 'International', or a wider release to cash in on the Xmas compilations market?

Think about it, there hasn't been a UK-released singles compilation since 1994... Wouldn't surprise me if London bring out another bloody compilation.

Surely worth waiting until at least late next year to include the singles from 2006's album? Then again, same goes for 'Item' doesn't it?

I'd certainly like this compilation on CD!

Andy

johnny james wrote:

Interesting that we will finally get Temptation 7" on CD & the original Ceremony too

...note that it says jan 81 for Ceremony, could be the release date although that was march, was the second version recorded after this date?

This is seriously the last chance to get it right over the two versions of Ceremony, if it's the re-recorded version then I'd give up ever getting it on CD (officially).

Well, if it's religiously sticking to the claim of being the 7" mixes, the re-recorded Ceremony only ever came out on 12", so this'd have to be the original version at long last.

Then again, which version of Blue Monday 83 can we expect? The 4:09 Japanese version, the 5:05 Polish edit, or the mythical "Fac 73-7" UK version no one ever seems to have seen..?? And will it really be Run 2??

Also, I have three 7 inch versions of 'Perfect Kiss' (one being the Low-life edit, one being a slightly shorter Low-life edit, and another being less than 4 minutes, and horribly edited).

Likewise, 'Sub-culture' had two 7" mixes, so whoever compiled this had better pick carefully. As for the Blue Monday 95 edit, it's a shame that's not on there too, as it's a bugger to find on CD (although I managed to grab it after many years of searching).

Not aware of an 'Arthur Baker' 1987 mix of '1963' - my guess is it'll be the 95 radio edit, as the 1987 7" mix was the same as the 12" you'll find on 'Substance'. Mucks up the 'chronological' claim, then.

We appear to be able to find out the answers to these questions on October 3rd..? I guess this release would tie in nicely with the 'Item' tracklisting - these are, after all the 'video' edits - so I wonder how widely released this will be - if at all??

Any word, Spotnick?

Andy

And - if this is a genuine release - here's another couple of questions that spring to mind:

Regret - will it be the regular 4:07 album version, or the ultra-rare 3:50 'Radio Edit' that only appeared on a two-track CD promo?

Spooky - will it be the Fluke 'Minimix' that was the lead track on the release, or the promo/US only 3:44 'Radio Edit' of the album mix?

Questions, questions...

Andy

With you there Nic - it should definitely be the full fucking shebang, every bastard single in bastard order of release, the bastards....

...otherwise what's the point??

Spotnick wrote: One sure thing is, I'm a bit sick to have to learn it through Warner Germany's website. Let's be honest here, either it's a german product, either somebody at Warner (London, whatever) isn't doing their job right.

I mean, send the information! they sent us (David & I) the delay for the single, but they don't send us that one?!?

Oh well... bad for is is that I'll be on a cruise ship then...

But, nevertheless my 2 cents.

1. It is stupid to release this when they know a new album is coming up
2. If you're going to do this, please put them all.. and put them in the right order.. 1963 was released in 1995, not 1987!! and add Blue Monday 95.

They should seriously consider doing like The Cure did.. a bonus acoustic disc, or like U2 did, a bonus B-Sides disc for the first copies of it.

P/S: I'm still shocked they didn't delay the 2xDVD to include the WFTSC video, so.... !!

Geez, what a con, the only reason for long term fans to buy this is that RUN2 is on it...

I hope there is a bonus disc, although we all know there won't be...

If they need to raise money a better way would be to raise profile through doing something like releasing their collaboration with Gwen Stefani!!!!

And another thing...

They should do an album of Joy Division reworks if they want to generate new income and guarantee some decent sales from their diamond studded back catalogue.

Now that I would buy!

For Christ's sake; International was only released a couple of years ago... are we going to get a greatest hits LP with every new NO LP from now on?

digitalwaters wrote:

For Christ's sake; International was only released a couple of years ago... are we going to get a greatest hits LP with every new NO LP from now on?

Yes, we probably will. That's a fairly common practice--at least in the US--with established artists. New releases are predicated or followed by Best of repackagings and live albums. I suspect that this is done for one of 3 reasons:

1. Keep the artist fresh in the public's mind so that they will be more receptive to a new release. This helps avoid the "Their new stuff is crap" problem.

2. It fleeces the fans in a blatant attempt to cash in again and again on your back catalog.

3. It hedges the record company's bets in the event that the new record doesn't sell well. These "Best Of" comps are probably high-profit-margin items for everyone involved.

I hate to compare NO to people like the Rolling Stones, but they've been putting out music as NO for 25 years, and if you add JD to that, you're looking at almost 30 years together. That puts them more or less where the Stones were when they released "Voodoo Lounge" in 1994. Which should make just about anyone feel old.

Why can't they do a disc of rarities? The stuff Spotty has on this site would be enough to make me and loads of other people buy it!

I have a formula; each track that is new or radically remixed on a CD is worth £2 to me (£1 from any other group than NO). If the cover value is more than my equation I deem it a rip off.

Do the maths.

Yes, I know I'm a:

I would buy this, but the thing is, I actually have all the tracks (unless Blue Monday is, really the seven inch 1983 version). For me, it'd only be worth buying to get the following tracks on CD:

Ceremony (if it's the original) Everything's Gone Green (if it's the 7 inch) Temptation (if it's the 7 inch) Blue Monday (if it's the 7inch) Confusion (if it's the 7 inch) Thieves Like Us (if it's the 7 inch) The Perfect Kiss (if it's the 7 inch, and not the more regular Low-life edit) Subculture (if it's the 7 inch) State Of The Nation (if it's the 7 inch) Bizarre Love Triangle (I have this 7 inch on CD, but it's tricky to find in the UK) True Faith (if it's the original 7 inch - only available on a Qwest Promo CD previously) Run 2 (if it's Run 2)

All the rest are reasonably widely available on CD in radio edit form.

I tend to agree with Spotnick - we can expect the tracklisting to be incorrect in places (Run instead of Run 2; True Faith-94 instead of True Faith; BLT-94 rather than the 7 inch version, lots of the Substance versions instead of the real 7 inch mixes, etc). When they say these will be the "radio" versions, that could simply be a way of signifying that it won't be the dance remixes of later tracks - although some will have to be shorter edits, or all of disc 1's tracks wouldn't fit on.

What they need is someone like me to double-check the versions, to ensure they really are the original releases!

I guess Warner Germany still have their copies of the master tapes somewhere then? Thought Run 2 was "lost", etc?

We wait and see... The bonus disc idea would be a good one too, but I doubt it. I reckon this release will just give people a chance to get the soundtrack to 'Item' on CD.

Andy

No MTO or Perfect Pit, True Dub, Touched by the Hand of Dub or other classic b-sides? Forget it. I'll wait until those get released on CD. Save my money.

Ironwill wrote: No MTO or Perfect Pit, True Dub, Touched by the Hand of Dub or other classic b-sides? Forget it. I'll wait until those get released on CD. Save my money.

With the next album they will perhaps release the B-Sides. :D

Well... my german mates from WarnerMusic... guess what i think? It's going to be "Perfect Kiss" (low-life-edit), "Tempation '87" (Substance), "Run" (Technique-version), "Ceremony" (Substance)... should i continue? i think this is going to be the same mess as "international"! But it's funny to see that, in the meantime, there are more best-of compilations than regular albums...

this could fuction as an updating of Substance, and actually be somewhat fuctional and reasonable as a good comp, if done properly. I don't really see True Faith 94 and BM 95 as real singles... the Blue Monday 88 had actual band involvement i believe. many of these later 7" edits are hardly essential but the radio edits of Crystal and 60 Miles an Hour are actually improvements IMO

of course many people also would like to hear the original 12" of Perfect Kiss.

if... New Order has actually taken the initiative to control what was being rereleased in the last 10 years, or at least let one person have editorial control with a sense of history of the band... they could have everything covered with some compliations that made sense, but they choose not to take the responsibility...

Spotnick wrote:

That is the official FIRST double CD from New Order...! I think so, as Substance wasn't meant to be on CD.

Eh? On the 'Academy' video interview of Peter Hook, doesn't he say that the reason 'Substance' was coming out was that Tony Wilson "wanted a compact disc for his car with all the singles on"?

2nd double CD, I think.

Andy

yeah, Substance was really the first New Order CD of the CD era (released as a CD at the same time)... and it was intended as a double CD from the start...

but CD players in cars were very rare then, thou Wilson was know for foolishly blowing money, so maybe it is possible he had one of the first in his car, i dunno...

Well, my Factory and London UK copies of 'Substance' on tape had the B-sides - even more, in fact, than on the CDs!

Sounds like another rip off to me... the only way I'd be roped into buying yet ANOTHER compilation would be if they did some newer updated versions of old classics e.g. Everything's Gone Green, Perfect Kiss, stuff like that. That would be superb.

HHmmmmm, not sure what to make of the singles compilation. It will be good to have as the sound quality on substance songs don't match the ones on retro and best of.. (subculture). I'm STILL waiting for remastered versions of TPK, and the original 1963 then.

this compilation has finally convinced me that new order are finished as a creative force..theres only so much money im prepared to pay for the best band in the world(not any more im upset to say)and another compilation is not one of them...ok ..warners are a global scummy record company...but new order signed the deal and are taking the money ...im really pissed off about this .....oh well

phillip lockhart wrote: this compilation has finally convinced me that new order are finished as a creative force..theres only so much money im prepared to pay for the best band in the world(not any more im upset to say)and another compilation is not one of them...ok ..warners are a global scummy record company...but new order signed the deal and are taking the money ...im really pissed off about this .....oh well

Well, you don't have to buy it. At least this looks better than International which I thought was totally useless. I guess they are releasing this because maybe WFTSC didn't sell as well as the record company hoped.

lucienchardon wrote: this compilation has finally convinced me that new order are finished as a creative force..theres only so much money im prepared to pay for the best band in the world(not any more im upset to say)and another compilation is not one of them...ok ..warners are a global scummy record company...but new order signed the deal and are taking the money ...im really pissed off about this .....oh well

Harsh words. Hooky said he never made any money until he was 35, so can't blame them for being greedy. I'll bet if it does well in the charts, and it gathers new fans, you'll be comparing it with Substance, eh.

phillip lockhart wrote: Well, you don't have to buy it. At least this looks better than International which I thought was totally useless. I guess they are releasing this because maybe WFTSC didn't sell as well as the record company hoped.

International actually got me into NO.

Just in case somebody's interested, I got the CD versions of the following singles a & b-sides:

In a lonely place (7" edit) EGG (7" edit) Temptation (US 7" edit?? 3:28 = soundtrack version?? ) Blue Monday (1983) (mega rare 4:27 edit) Confusion (German promo 7" edit) Thieves like us (7" edit) Lonesome tonight (7" edit) The perfect kiss (FBN 7" edit) The perfect kiss (UK 7" edit) Sub-culture (7" edit) Thieves like us (instrumental 7" edit) State of the nation (7" edit) Paradise (Robert Racic 7" mix - version 1) Paradise (Robert Racic 7" mix - version 2) True faith (1987) (7" edit) True faith (1987) (US 'Morning sun mix' 7" edit) Blue Monday '95 (Hardfloor 7" edit) Blue Monday '95 (Plutone radio edit)

Regarding the tracklsiting there are more singles (radio edits missing): * Murder (1984) * Confusion (1990) (I do have a rare radio mix of the 'Essential mix') * Let's go (Arthur Baker single mix, 1994) * Bizarre love triangle (Single mix, 1994) * Brutal (Radio edit version 1 or version 2, 2000) * True faith (Philip Steir radio edit, 2001) * Confusion (Koma & Bones radio edit, 2002) * ....

I can imagine they don't want to put several mixes of one particular track, but an extra bonus disc with the "alternative" singles / single versions could be an option...

Well, again, in case you're interested, let me know.

mmc.productions@hetnet.nl

How funny... Yesterday I was about to make a compilation of single A-sides, a sort of an updated Substance, rather similar to this tracklist, and gladly I haven't put anything yet on CDs :)

C'mon people, look at how many compilations The Fall has been releasing and that's alright with them, even though it's not the most lucrative band in the world.

Why carn't the daft barstewards just dig out 3-piece Ceremony, instead of the re-recorded vers. Got more chance of getting 'Homage' released than Run2, Temptation & Blue M (83) 7" Christ, they dont even give us any incentive to buy it. Why carn't they just do it fooking right - my patience is waring thin :(

So they omitted Someone Like You :( I know it's A SORT OF a promo, but it was given an appropriate catalogue number and even cover art. I would still place SLY in the collection, coz it's a damn good song that was worth a myriad of remixes.

why are people always so quick to put a negative spin...i.e. ... "it's all for the money", "it's because WFTSC did not sell enough", "a real artist would never make any money...blah, blah, blah..."

...maybe there seems to be a renewed interest in New Order, so they thought they would stoke a New Order revival with a singles collection since there has not been a proper/good singles collection in almost 18 years... maybe with interest they will have a proper rerelease of all the Factory era material eventually!

what is needed is... a proper New Order FACTORY era box set, with Wilson's involvement... everything from the 80s and include "Regret" as a requiem, the last Factory effort... Peter Saville packaging... this is a workable box set project

just pretend that International never happened, the band and the label have prolly forgotten already anyway and it will just become an odd collectors item

What? no Murder?

And should I be distressed that BM 88 is included but BM 95 is not? No, I don't think I will be.

I will not be buying this.

If NO were properly consulted and involved in sorting out the content of these compilations it would probably be a lot better all round.

I've made my own compilations of rarities for personal use and use as a DJ - i'm sure a lot of casual and hardcore fans would buy this sort of thing if it was released.

Without rarities or a bonus disc this will be lucky to chart in the top 100 in the UK; so whats the point?

Koen Kroeze wrote: Just in case somebody's interested, I got the CD versions of the following singles a & b-sides:

In a lonely place (7" edit) EGG (7" edit) Blue Monday (1983) (mega rare 4:27 edit) Confusion (German promo 7" edit) Thieves like us (7" edit) Lonesome tonight (7" edit) The perfect kiss (FBN 7" edit) The perfect kiss (UK 7" edit) Sub-culture (7" edit) Thieves like us (instrumental 7" edit) State of the nation (7" edit) Paradise (Robert Racic 7" mix - version 1) Paradise (Robert Racic 7" mix - version 2)

In other words, you mean you've copied these to CD? The above aren't available on CD anywhere to my knowledge.

Koen Kroeze wrote: Regarding the tracklsiting there are more singles (radio edits missing): * Murder (1984) * Confusion (1990) (I do have a rare radio mix of the 'Essential mix') * Let's go (Arthur Baker single mix, 1994) * Bizarre love triangle (Single mix, 1994) * Brutal (Radio edit version 1 or version 2, 2000) * True faith (Philip Steir radio edit, 2001) * Confusion (Koma & Bones radio edit, 2002)

Well, Murder was 12" only and already on 'Substance', 'Confusion' (1990 + 2002) weren't released on Factory or London, 'Bizarre Love Triangle-94' only appeared on 'The Best Of...' and promos, and 'Brutal' and 'True Faith' were promo-only and not actually singles!

By the way, what are the 'Robert Racic 7" mixes' of 'Paradise'? Home-made edits?

Andy

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: So they omitted Someone Like You :( I know it's A SORT OF a promo, but it was given an appropriate catalogue number and even cover art. I would still place SLY in the collection, coz it's a damn good song that was worth a myriad of remixes.

There was no 'Radio Version' though, was there. Good mixes though.

Andy

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: How funny... Yesterday I was about to make a compilation of single A-sides, a sort of an updated Substance, rather similar to this tracklist, and gladly I haven't put anything yet on CDs :)

Oddly enough, over the weekend I put a playlist together on my Network Walkman to "update" 'Substance'. Difficult to do with all the remixes that have come out in recent years. Things with 'Substance' was that they were all kind of 'original' versions before being edited into 7inch mixes (apart from 'Sub-culture' and 'Bizarre Love Triangle'). If you carry on including the 12" A-sides from the tracks since, you end up with that horrible 'Bogle' mix of 'Ruined In A Day'! Here's how I put my playlist together, without using any dance remixes.

1 Ceremony - 2nd 12" 2 Everythings Gone Green - 12" 3 Temptation - Original 12" 4 Blue Monday - 12" 5 Confusion - Original 12" 6 Thieves Like Us - 12" 7 Murder - 12" 8 The Perfect Kiss - Substance Edited 12" 9 Subculture - Substance Edited 12" 10 Shellshock - Substance Edited 12" 11 State Of The Nation - 12" 12 Bizarre Love Triangle - 12" 13 True Faith - 12" 14 Touched By The Hand Of God - 12" 15 Fine Time - Technique Version 16 Round & Round - 12" 17 Run 2 - 12" Edit 18 World In Motion... - Radio Edit 19 Regret - Album Version 20 Ruined In A Day - Album Version 21 World - Album Version 22 Spooky - Album Version 23 Crystal - Album Version 24 60 Miles An Hour - Album Version 25 Here To Stay - Full Length Vocal 26 Krafty - Album Version 27 Jetstream - Album Version 28 Waiting For The Sirens' Call - Album Version

I missed out any re-releases ('BM88'/'BM95'/'True Faith-94'/1963-95') as I wanted to keep the 'Substance' theme of hearing how New Order progressed - that's why it's all the full-length/album versions rather than clubby DJ 12" mixes. Flows quite well, I think. A shame there's no equivalent of the long, 6-8 minute 12" versions that extended the originals that we used to get (like the 'Round & Round' 12", etc.). I suppose 'Someone Like You (Album Version) could be slotted in before 'Here To Stay', but it never got a full single release, did it?

Anyway, that's how I'd update 'Substance' for my own listening pleasure! Be nice to get the radio edits on CD at last with this new compilation though - if that's actually what will happen!

Andy

Ironwill wrote: No MTO or Perfect Pit, True Dub, Touched by the Hand of Dub or other classic b-sides? Forget it. I'll wait until those get released on CD. Save my money.

For a bonus disc, how about: 1 In A Lonely Place - 7" (4:39) 2 Procession (4:26) 3 Mesh (3:00) 4 Cries And Whispers (3:23) 5 Hurt - 7" (4:47) 6 Lonesome Tonight - 7" (3:54) 7 Murder (3:54) 8 The Kiss Of Death - 7" (5:10) 9 1963 - Original (5:34) 10 Touched By The Hand Of Dub - 7" (4:12) 11 Don't Do It (4:29) 12 Best & Marsh - 7" (3:32) 13 MTO (3:44) 14 Vicious Circle (The New Order Mix) (4:08) 15 Behind Closed Doors (5:25) 16 Sabotage (4:48) 17 Player In The League (5:35) 18 Such A Good Thing (4:07)

That'd do for me, matey - get all the "proper" B-sides together, and chuck a couple of the cool 'dub' 7" mixes in there too. Plus it'd follow the chronological and 'radio versions' theme of discs one and two. Would clock in at about 79 minutes.

As Spotnick said, probably too late to arrange this before 3rd October, but this'd be my ultimate 'bonus disc', and clear up some of the old vinyl that's yet to get out on CD.

After that, we'd just need the full 12" mixes of 'The Perfect Kiss', 'Subculture' and 'Shellshock' on CD to complete the bulk of the Factory 7"/12" sets on CD.

Andy

So....

That's 'Someone like you', 'Video 586' and 'Murder' missing.

You could also complain that the re-releases of 'Confusion' and 'World in Motion' are also missing along with the alternative releases of 'True Faith', 'Blue Monday' (95) and '1963'.

And no B-sides!

Is there ANY point to this?

As I said, there was no Radio Version of 'Someone Like You', and they can hardly put one of the 7-minute DJ remixes on therer when it's meant to be radio versions.

Would you really want 'Video 586' on there??! Hardly an "official" single.

I agree, it's all a bit pointless. Good for someone like me who wants the old 7" mixes on CD, but I could've hung on until the next album proper and it's accompanying singles came out!

Andy

Mr Discography wrote: As I said, there was no Radio Version of 'Someone Like You', and they can hardly put one of the 7-minute DJ remixes on therer when it's meant to be radio versions.

Would you really want 'Video 586' on there??! Hardly an "official" single.

I agree, it's all a bit pointless. Good for someone like me who wants the old 7" mixes on CD, but I could've hung on until the next album proper and it's accompanying singles came out!

Andy

The compilation is called 'NEW ORDER - THE SINGLES' (no effort in the title even!) I take this to mean singles in whatever format they were released- this includes 12".

Yes 586 is long; wouldn't take much effort to edit it- they could have even done an edited 5 min version of 'Exhibition' (although I don't count that as a single as it wasn't available in record shops).

Even I can edit their songs on a PC so it can't be that hard!

digitalwaters wrote:

The compilation is called 'NEW ORDER - THE SINGLES' (no effort in the title even!) I take this to mean singles in whatever format they were released- this includes 12".

Yes, well you take it wrong in this instance. It's a singles compilation - meaning stuff that got promoted, went in the chart, that people were familiar with, etc. Bunging in 'Video 586' would mess up the flow and progression of the compilation (it came out about 15 years after being recorded, remember) and would alienate casual listeners to the band - whom I assume this collection is aimed at.

digitalwaters wrote:

Yes 586 is long; wouldn't take much effort to edit it- they could have even done an edited 5 min version of 'Exhibition' (although I don't count that as a single as it wasn't available in record shops).

You forgot to include The Hacienda Xmas Flexi - doubt many people would be happy if that appeared on there!

Andy

Yes, knew the flexi dig was on it's way...

As I said, I understand Exhibition being absent, as, like the flexi, it wasn't in the record shops: mainstream shops; not independent 'Ronny's records' type shops (Dear God, please don't let anyone here run a shop called 'Ronny's records') before someone digs at that.

586 disrupts the flow? Depends where they put it... the running order doesn't have to be chronological...

What i'm getting at is that they should put some lesser known, more obscure and less well distributed single releases on there that would prick up a casual listener's ears.

Casual fans could then become curious about other NO releases and be willing to explore more of the back-catalogue...

And i'm sure some of us wouldn't mind the flexi-disc being pressed onto the end of the bonus disc, that we know will never be made, for a bit of a laugh.

digitalwaters wrote: Yes, knew the flexi dig was on it's way...

What i'm getting at is that they should put some lesser known, more obscure and less well distributed single releases on there that would prick up a casual listener's ears.

Casual fans could then become curious about other NO releases and be willing to explore more of the back-catalogue...

...That's what 'Everythings Gone Green', 'The Perfect Kiss', 'Shellshock', and the other earlier stuff is for - don't forget, a lot of this stuff is over 20 years old, and there are younger people around that only know 'Get Ready', 'Sirens' Call', 'Blue Monday' and 'True Faith'!

Andy

Okay, let's break this "potential" tracklisting down. Assuming they really are using the 'radio version' (which I very much doubt), these are the versions I'd use, and the lengths of each disc...

CD1: Ceremony - Jan81 (Original 7” 4:39) Procession - Sep81 (4:26) Everything's Gone Green - Dec81 (7” 4:15) Temptation - Apr82 (7” 5:21) Blue Monday - Mar83 (12” 7:27) Confusion - Aug83 (7” 4:11) Thieves Like Us - Apr84 (7” 3:56) The Perfect Kiss - May85 (FBN 7” 4:24) Subculture - Nov85 (UK 7” 3:25) Shellshock - Mar86 (7” 4:23) State Of Nation - Sept86 (7” 3:31) BLT - Nov86 (UK 7” 3:45) True Faith - July87 (7” 4:10) 1963 Arthur Baker Mix - July87 (Arthur Baker Radio Mix 4:02) Touched By The Hand Of God - Dec87 (7” 3:42) (55:37)

CD2: Blue Monday 88 - Mar88 (7” 4:09) Fine Time - Nov88 (7” 3:08) Round + Round - Feb89 (7” 3:59) Run 2 - Aug89 (7” 3:37) World In Motion - May90 (7” 4:30) Regret - April93 (Radio Edit 3:48) Ruined In A Day - June93 (Radio Edit 3:58) World(Price Of Love) - Aug93 (Radio Edit 3:38) Spooky - Dec93 (Album Edit 3:44) Crystal - Aug01 (Radio Edit 4:20) 60mph - Nov01 (Radio Edit 3:48) Here To Stay - Apr02 (Radio Edit 3:55) Krafty - Mar05 (Single Edit 3:48) Jetstream - May05 (Radio Edit 3:44) Waiting For The Sirens Call - Sep05 (Radio Edit ?:??) (54:06 ++ WFTSC Radio Edit)

So, loads of time for longer versions. Note I'm assuming it'll be the original 12" of BM, as I can't imagine they really do have a master tape somewhere with the original 7" edit (if it ever came out in the UK as a promo, that is). We'll probably get the slightly longer 'Republic' version of 'Regret' and the 'Minimix' of 'Spooky', as the edits I included above only appeared on promos.

I reckon the mistake inclusions we'll see will include the 'Technique' version of 'Run', the 12" version of 'EGG' (it does say Dec81 for the release date, not Sep81 when 'Procession' came out). Also expect the 'Substance' re-recording of 'Confusion' (and possible 'Temptation'), as well as the 'Substance' edit of 'Subculture' instead of the real 7" edit. Oh, and the 2nd 'Ceremony' and 12" 'Theives Like Us' as well as the 'Low Life' 'Perfect Kiss', no doubt. If those 'mistakes' happen, the compilation will be pretty pointless... If we get my version above, that will have some interest to people like me...

But we shall see.

Andy

Mr Discography wrote: Okay, let's break this "potential" tracklisting down. Assuming they really are using the 'radio version' (which I very much doubt), these are the versions I'd use, and the lengths of each disc...

CD1: Ceremony - Jan81 (Original 7” 4:39) Procession - Sep81 (4:26) Everything's Gone Green - Dec81 (7” 4:15) Temptation - Apr82 (7” 5:21) Blue Monday - Mar83 (12” 7:27) Confusion - Aug83 (7” 4:11) Thieves Like Us - Apr84 (7” 3:56) The Perfect Kiss - May85 (FBN 7” 4:24) Subculture - Nov85 (7” 3:25) Shellshock - Mar86 (7” 4:23) State Of Nation - Sept86 (7” 3:31) BLT - Nov86 (UK 7” 3:45) True Faith - July87 (7” 4:10) 1963 Arthur Baker Mix - July87 (Arthur Baker Radio Mix 4:02) Touched By The Hand Of God - Dec87 (7” 3:42) (55:37)

CD2: Blue Monday 88 - Mar88 (7” 4:09) Fine Time - Nov88 (7” 3:08) Round + Round - Feb89 (7” 3:59) Run 2 - Aug89 (7” 3:37) World In Motion - May90 (7” 4:30) Regret - April93 (Radio Edit 3:48) Ruined In A Day - June93 (Radio Edit 3:58) World(Price Of Love) - Aug93 (Radio Edit 3:38) Spooky - Dec93 (Album Edit 3:44) Crystal - Aug01 (Radio Edit 4:20) 60mph - Nov01 (Radio Edit 3:48) Here To Stay - Apr02 (Radio Edit 3:55) Krafty - Mar05 (Single Edit 3:48) Jetstream - May05 (Radio Edit 3:44) Waiting For The Sirens Call - Sep05 (Radio Edit ?:??) (54:06 ++ WFTSC Radio Edit)

So, loads of time for longer versions. Note I'm assuming it'll be the original 12" of BM, as I can't imagine they really do have a master tape somewhere with the original 7" edit (if it ever came out in the UK as a promo, that is). We'll probably get the slightly longer 'Republic' version of 'Regret' and the 'Minimix' of 'Spooky', as the edits I included above only appeared on promos.

I reckon the mistake inclusions we'll see will include the 'Technique' version of 'Run', the 12" version of 'EGG' (it does say Dec81 for the release date, not Sep81 when 'Procession' came out). Also expect the 'Substance' re-recording of 'Confusion' (and possible 'Temptation'), as well as the 'Substance' edit of 'Subculture' instead of the real 7" edit. Oh, and the 2nd 'Ceremony' and 12" 'Theives Like Us' as well as the 'Low Life' 'Perfect Kiss', no doubt. If those 'mistakes' happen, the compilation will be pretty pointless... If we get my version above, that will have some interest to people like me...

But we shall see.

Andy

Therefore room for some obscurities per-chance?

Maybe that should have been 'no-chance'....

Mr Discography wrote: Okay, let's break this "potential" tracklisting down. Assuming they really are using the 'radio version' (which I very much doubt), these are the versions I'd use, and the lengths of each disc...

CD1: Ceremony - Jan81 (Original 7” 4:39) Procession - Sep81 (4:26) Everything's Gone Green - Dec81 (7” 4:15) Temptation - Apr82 (7” 5:21) Blue Monday - Mar83 (12” 7:27) Confusion - Aug83 (7” 4:11) Thieves Like Us - Apr84 (7” 3:56) The Perfect Kiss - May85 (FBN 7” 4:24) Subculture - Nov85 (7” 3:25) Shellshock - Mar86 (7” 4:23) State Of Nation - Sept86 (7” 3:31) BLT - Nov86 (UK 7” 3:45) True Faith - July87 (7” 4:10) 1963 Arthur Baker Mix - July87 (Arthur Baker Radio Mix 4:02) Touched By The Hand Of God - Dec87 (7” 3:42) (55:37)

CD2: Blue Monday 88 - Mar88 (7” 4:09) Fine Time - Nov88 (7” 3:08) Round + Round - Feb89 (7” 3:59) Run 2 - Aug89 (7” 3:37) World In Motion - May90 (7” 4:30) Regret - April93 (Radio Edit 3:48) Ruined In A Day - June93 (Radio Edit 3:58) World(Price Of Love) - Aug93 (Radio Edit 3:38) Spooky - Dec93 (Album Edit 3:44) Crystal - Aug01 (Radio Edit 4:20) 60mph - Nov01 (Radio Edit 3:48) Here To Stay - Apr02 (Radio Edit 3:55) Krafty - Mar05 (Single Edit 3:48) Jetstream - May05 (Radio Edit 3:44) Waiting For The Sirens Call - Sep05 (Radio Edit ?:??) (54:06 ++ WFTSC Radio Edit)

So, loads of time for longer versions. Note I'm assuming it'll be the original 12" of BM, as I can't imagine they really do have a master tape somewhere with the original 7" edit (if it ever came out in the UK as a promo, that is). We'll probably get the slightly longer 'Republic' version of 'Regret' and the 'Minimix' of 'Spooky', as the edits I included above only appeared on promos.

I reckon the mistake inclusions we'll see will include the 'Technique' version of 'Run', the 12" version of 'EGG' (it does say Dec81 for the release date, not Sep81 when 'Procession' came out). Also expect the 'Substance' re-recording of 'Confusion' (and possible 'Temptation'), as well as the 'Substance' edit of 'Subculture' instead of the real 7" edit. Oh, and the 2nd 'Ceremony' and 12" 'Theives Like Us' as well as the 'Low Life' 'Perfect Kiss', no doubt. If those 'mistakes' happen, the compilation will be pretty pointless... If we get my version above, that will have some interest to people like me...

But we shall see.

Andy

I think this list needs emailing, faxing or whatever to London sharpish.

Or even faxing to Warner Germany - as far as we know that's the only place it's coming out. I can't see a London/UK release for this, as there's another album on the way next year - three albums in 15 months would be a bit mad wouldn't it?

Just let 'em know we want the original 1983 7" of Blue Monday (i.e. FAC73-7) if there is such a thing. Failing that, how about the Japanese 4:09 1983 edit that's so very hard to find!? Failing that, there's a 5:05 Polish 7" version. Must be a master tape somewhere???

While we're at it, fax 'em my 18 track, 79 minute Bonus Disc I mentioned before:

Mr Discography wrote:

For a bonus disc, how about: 1 In A Lonely Place - 7" (4:39) 2 Procession (4:26) 3 Mesh (3:00) 4 Cries And Whispers (3:23) 5 Hurt - 7" (4:47) 6 Lonesome Tonight - 7" (3:54) 7 Murder (3:54) 8 The Kiss Of Death - 7" (5:10) 9 1963 - Original (5:34) 10 Touched By The Hand Of Dub - 7" (4:12) 11 Don't Do It (4:29) 12 Best & Marsh - 7" (3:32) 13 MTO (3:44) 14 Vicious Circle (The New Order Mix) (4:08) 15 Behind Closed Doors (5:25) 16 Sabotage (4:48) 17 Player In The League (5:35) 18 Such A Good Thing (4:07)

I should be working for London/Warner compiling these darn things! hell, get me the masters and I'll remaster the packages too!

Andy

Great WORK MR Discography.

Here's a theory: this release is in effect an audio port of the singles from Item. The "radio versions" we wind up with will largely (but probably not entirely) correspond to the DVD's tracks. In that case, we'd actually get "Run2" for once. Like others here, I'm pessimistic, though, and suspect that even if the DVD has something to do with it, we'll still wind up getting the bog-standard 1987 "Confusion" (instead of hte short version from the video) probably the five-and-a-half minute edit of the 1987 "Temptation" (a la 24 Hour Party People), and the four-piece "Ceremony." In fact, I expect Item will use either live versions of "Temptation" and "Ceremony" or the re-recorded ones, not the original 7" versions. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Also, while I'm shocked that there'd be another comp so soon, there really has been a need for a straight up NO 7" singles collection (even one that may be somewhat botched) for some time now. At least it aims at presenting the band's work comprehsensively and chronologically, which is more than can be said for Best Of, International, and Retro.

Spotnick wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Well, my Factory and London UK copies of 'Substance' on tape had the B-sides - even more, in fact, than on the CDs!

Substance "Sides" was sold with Substance?

I thought it was a different product...

We learn every day ;)

The UK 'Substance' was released as a double LP with just the 12 A sides found on the 1st CD (although the uncropped 'Perfect Kiss' featured, oddly). There was a lengthy double cassette in a cardboard slipcase featuring the same 12 tracks as on the CD, but with 'Murder' included between 'Thieves Like Us' and 'Perfect Kiss'. The second cassette had 15 B-sides and dubs (more than the 12 on CD2), including Cries And Whispers/Mesh, Dubvulture, Shellcock and Bizarre Dub Triangle, not found on CD2. I bought the London re-released double tape when my Factory copy got chewed up, and it had the same tracks (about 2 hours and 45 minutes worth of music).

So, basically, Substance on vinyl had 12 tracks, 24 on CD and 28 on tape!

Andy

Daniel McCarthy wrote: Here's a theory: this release is in effect an audio port of the singles from Item. The "radio versions" we wind up with will largely (but probably not entirely) correspond to the DVD's tracks. In that case, we'd actually get "Run2" for once. Like others here, I'm pessimistic, though, and suspect that even if the DVD has something to do with it, we'll still wind up getting the bog-standard 1987 "Confusion" (instead of hte short version from the video) probably the five-and-a-half minute edit of the 1987 "Temptation" (a la 24 Hour Party People), and the four-piece "Ceremony." In fact, I expect Item will use either live versions of "Temptation" and "Ceremony" or the re-recorded ones, not the original 7" versions. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Also, while I'm shocked that there'd be another comp so soon, there really has been a need for a straight up NO 7" singles collection (even one that may be somewhat botched) for some time now. At least it aims at presenting the band's work comprehsensively and chronologically, which is more than can be said for Best Of, International, and Retro.

Agreed Daniel. Well put. In fact, the new 'Temptation' video is bound to feature 'Temptation 98' as the soundtrack, I'd've thought.

Andy

Spotnick wrote: I'm just hoping they will remaster everything.

Oh and..

In other words, you mean you've copied these to CD? The above aren't available on CD anywhere to my knowledge.

Ally bought a strange promo off EBay that says to be the Recycle sampler.. obviously it's a boot, but according to him, it features the best version of many tracks like the Ceremony 7" version...

Could this be this? Lots of old vinyl mixes on that - never seen it for sale or online auction. Says in the description that 'There are no unreleased digital versions on this set' and that tracks were from analogue and digital sources, so it was probably put together with the old vinyl records just like my CD-R collections. Doubt anyone would have gone to the extent of digging out the masters for an in-house CD set? Wonder why it was ever put together anyway?

Even if I do say so myself, the 'Retro Revisited' compilation I put together with rare vinyl and CD tracks was remastered very carefully using my fancy digital studio and a decent Technics, so for all I know the tracks I mastered for that could have ended up on a handful of people's boots somewhere - they are pretty decent, CD quality remasters!

Andy

I can never understand why they didn't do a Substance 2 or even Substance 3 whenever they had enough material rather than the Best Of and International.

Ronald Kirsch wrote: I can never understand why they didn't do a Substance 2 or even Substance 3 whenever they had enough material rather than the Best Of and International.

That would of been much better, then we would have a complete collection. But.......

Ronald Kirsch wrote: I can never understand why they didn't do a Substance 2 or even Substance 3 whenever they had enough material rather than the Best Of and International.

It'd be way too Pet Shoppy ;)

Yea... not really. I *wish* Pet Shop Boys released Discography 2 instead of PooPart which misses out one of my favourite singles (How can you expect to be taken seriously?) and Was it worth it? because they had to make space for Crappy C*ntrol.

I think he was referring to the title 'Substance 2' being Pet Shop Boys-like - i.e. 'Disco', 'Disco 2', 'Disco 3'.

Anyway, if New Order had released 'Substance 2', it would have been very short, as they got out of the habit of doing corking twelve inch versions, so we'd just have had the Radio Edits or original album versions of the singles from 'Touched' onwards. Instead, it could have featured the twelve inch remixes, but these are loved/hated to varying degrees by us New Order fans.

Andy.

Baaa! Baaa! I'm a sheep! It's summer! I'm being FLEECED!

rip-offs ahoy!

Hey Andy, give me your email-address and I'll send you one of the 'previously unavailable cd edits'. So you can judge for yourself...

My email address link is at the bottom of each of my messages!

Send it on over.

Andy

Agreed, Spotnick. The time has passed for a 2nd 'Substance', and it would never compare with the first one (my favourite album of all time). Other producer's dance mixes of New Order wouldn't adequately represent the progression of New Order's style as 'Substance' does. You'd have to replace the remixes from 'Regret' onwards with the full-length album versions for it to make "sense" - oh, and forget about the 'Blue Monday'/'True Faith'/'1963' remixes as they're all essentially on 'Substance' in better versions anyway.

This 7" collection is the most interesting way to bring things up-to-date and summarise New Order's sound and chronology. Obviously, we all prefer the full length mixes, but getting the 7"s on 2 CDs will be a nice treat.

Just wish they'd have waited until this time next year after the next album - this collection will be out-of-date in less than a year.

Andy

well im looking forward to this one as my old substance tapes have long been turned into spaghetti. i know its not a COMPLETE track listing but cmon guys this is a common tactic used by all record companies,in 5yrs time we will be having yet another compilation with stuff thats been missing for years on it and BONUS unheard of material. but guess what that wont be a complete one either cos they will want to flogg it yet again further down the line. the sex pistols once released an album called flogging a dead horse(which was quite good actually) and whilst i dont think the new order donkey is not dead yet they are certainly giving it a proper flogging what with the dvd n all. but that said its bout bloody time n all,thank fuck we dont have to wait years n years like we have been doing to hear or see them in any form.

Who needs another compilation. Bring out the new CD.

Mr Disco wrote: Who needs another compilation. Bring out the new CD.

I think this bodes ill for the release of 'waiting for the sirens left overs'. I reckon we won't see this in 2006 as there now seems to be a lot of consolidation releases going on.

I would love to see it in 2006, but I have a sick feeling that it'll be 2007 or 2008...

The best source for many of the otherwise unreleased on CD tracks is the 'Excerpts From Recycle' disc. Bar none. And there are those otherwise unavailable remixes of World and Spooky to boot!

1. Ceremony (original 12" version)
2. Temptation (7" version)
3. Blue Monday (7" edit)
4. Confusion (rough mix)
5. The Kiss of Death (7" version)
6. Shellcock (12" version)
7. Evil Dust
8. Vanishing Point (instrumental making out mix)
9. Run2 (extended version)
10. MTO
11. MTO (minus mix)
12. The Happy One (complete version - not off TV!)
13. Vicious Circle (new order mix)
14. World (Price of Love) (tony garcia radio mix)
15. Spooky (night tripper dub)
16. World in Motion 96

So where does this CD originate from? Someone had the master tapes, judging by the 'Blue Monday' seven inch I've heard from it. No vinyl noise whatsoever. Something to do with London/Factory?

Andy

True.

idiotcountry2 wrote: The best source for many of the otherwise unreleased on CD tracks is the 'Excerpts From Recycle' disc. Bar none. And there are those otherwise unavailable remixes of World and Spooky to boot!

well... where the hell did you get this? ... is there a smilie for clueless? oh... i guess there is. anyway, i had no idea this existed.

Never heard of it meself either; is it a windup???

Hmm, real shame these forums are not searchable. Sort of makes any archive of them pointless...

No, not a windup. Take a look around. :)

t

Yeah, but I'm sure some folk don't mind them not being searchable.

Searchable sounds good to me- i'd vote for it as it would help prevent a lot of pointless repetition of posts...

:topic:

Maybe continue this discussion over in the 'Technical' Thread?

idiotcountry2 wrote: Hmm, real shame these forums are not searchable. Sort of makes any archive of them pointless...

No, not a windup. Take a look around.

t

And apparently not many people looking around for this CD :)

I got your fukkin 7" ry here!!!!!

((((e))))

idiotcountry2 wrote: The best source for many of the otherwise unreleased on CD tracks is the 'Excerpts From Recycle' disc. Bar none. And there are those otherwise unavailable remixes of World and Spooky to boot!

1. Ceremony (original 12" version)
2. Temptation (7" version)
3. Blue Monday (7" edit)
4. Confusion (rough mix)
5. The Kiss of Death (7" version)
6. Shellcock (12" version)
7. Evil Dust
8. Vanishing Point (instrumental making out mix)
9. Run2 (extended version)
10. MTO
11. MTO (minus mix)
12. The Happy One (complete version - not off TV!)
13. Vicious Circle (new order mix)
14. World (Price of Love) (tony garcia radio mix)
15. Spooky (night tripper dub)
16. World in Motion 96

Search ebay for "New Order Recycle". I got mine last week. Excellent quality. Says it's a Warner Bros promotional cd (pro-cd-9141) but can't confirm it. I'm so Happy :D :D to get the complete version of The Happy One finally as well as the other rarities.