New Order the 'gayest' straight band.

Rather you like it or not.

Discuss.

leeharveyoswald R.I.P1963 wrote: Rather you like it or not.

Discuss.

??? What gay do you see about New Order?

I just think that new order in the 80's was very ambiguous regarding their sexuality. Comparable to the Velvet Underground in that sense. Some of Barney's lyrics to me sometimes sound homsexually theme. You also have to admit they have some gay disco songs.

My favorite bands have always have a sexually ambiguous nature to them. Or the singer was gay. This is coming from a straight guy.

And the new holder of "most pointless and inane thread ever" is....

This is a very good thread. Me friends and I (all straight) have often commented on it. Perfect Kiss is so gay (but a great song). The lyrics, the into, etc.

To dismiss the idea is foolish and ignorant (IMO).

Uncle Liam wrote: And the new holder of "most pointless and inane thread ever" is....

If you dont like it, you dont have to reply. I reckon most threads are pointless. Thats why its so entertaining.

yeah i got bored of talking about New Order a long time ago.Now i just talk about hairstyles.

exactly, how much can we talk about new order?Although, we do (including myself)persist. Will we ever run out of topics to discuss about new order? I dont think their retirement will take care of that

No. ELKLAND is the gayest straight band and you should all be listening to them.

never heard of them. Is it your band?

Jonathan why do you stop using your nickname?

Johnny wrote: Jonathan why do you stop using your nickname?

Yes indeed! What a shock!

well everybody knows me as Jonathan.

Jonathan wrote: never heard of them. Is it your band?

I wish!

www.elkland.net

Jonathan wrote: well everybody knows me as Jonathan.

It does make things simpler.

Patrick wrote:

Jonathan wrote: well everybody knows me as Jonathan.

It does make things simpler.

Yes it does.

Just don't give out your last name.

The fact that they do appeal to the gay crowd is evident to me at 80's night at the local club I've started hanging out at. NO does have a gay/lesbian following at the club--when BM or BLT comes on, everyone starts dancing--gay and straight. I have yet to go to an 80's night where NO isn't played. I don't know if I'd say they are the "gayest" straight band--I think Madonna or Soft Cell have that one covered. I'd have to agree that NO have the dance appeal thing covered though. Just my .02.

I was watching a NO video with a friend who isn't that familiar with them.

Friend: Are they gay?

Me: No.

Friend: Then they must have done lots of club drugs!

Their first gig was at Heaven (London gay club) wasn't it?

They've worked with gay industry bods and there's the Electronic/PSB stuff + J.Marr's last electronic interview was intreging...

A lot of Barnye's lyrics are genderless and some are about women, some are about men + Barney (in the old days) had that 'too cute to be straight' look about him.

Obviously he's married and straight now, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Sumner has a bisexual streak... and so what if he does / did ???????????

digitalwaters wrote: Their first gig was at Heaven (London gay club) wasn't it?

Was it fook.

Well, one of their early gigs was!

Enough fingers to form a fist, Al?

I spent my last night in the UK there, a cracking Bedrock set it was.

:\pimp3:

Heaven "is" the GAY club, The only one having a "Men Only Night", the others are mixed gay male and female www.heaven-london.com

remteex wrote: Heaven "is" the GAY club, The only one having a "Men Only Night" www.heaven-london.com

Thankyou!

I wouldn't say NO are the 'gayest' straight band, but if they are it doesn't matter- I doubt they are bothered much by the sexuality of their unit shifters...

They are certainly gay friendly and many of their lyrics are sexually ambiguous- all adds to the intrigue of the band!

digitalwaters wrote:

They are certainly gay friendly and many of their lyrics are sexually ambiguous- all adds to the intrigue of the band!

Certainly Gay friendly alright. I remember throwing some serious shapes ('dancing') to Temptation in an underage niteclub called The Appartment in Dublin back in around 1983. Got my arse pinched(unusual in itself!) & turned to find it was a bloke who did it - that was my intro to 'NO gay friendly' Lots of times since people have said that Bernard looked gay - but then they said that about me too (until i ran off with their girlfriends , well, I did once anyway)

Al Jarvis wrote:

digitalwaters wrote: I wouldn't say NO are the 'gayest' straight band

I think Abba might just have them whooped hands-down on that score anyways!

Just what I was thinking...!

I reckon only a gay can think of something gay about New Order... Or at least a person very familiar with gay culture. Coz I've never had even a thought about it whatsoever.

Maybe I'm stupid, but I just don't see how a song can sound gay unless there's direct lyrics with gay content (like the song Falling In Love, on the last Pet Shop Boys album).

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: I reckon only a gay can think of something gay about New Order... Or at least a person very familiar with gay culture. Coz I've never had even a thought about it whatsoever.

Maybe I'm stupid, but I just don't see how a song can sound gay unless there's direct lyrics with gay content (like the song Falling In Love, on the last Pet Shop Boys album).

True. I've only got such an insight because I spent 8 years working with HIV positive people; most of which were gay (although globally it affects heterosexuals more than gay men and even in the 'West' the numbers of hetero HIV cases are increasing).

I don't care if they are gay or straight, (I presume they're straight) however, I think they were probably gay-friendly though. (On the other hand, my dad thinks they're gay after listening to a handful of their songs in the car...he says that "it's obvious by the way he sings and the lyrics" or some crap like that. My dad, by the way, is sort of homophobic.) Anyways, the majority of my favorite bands and artists are either gay or "straight-but-gay friendly".

I can imagine Bernard would have an appeal for gay men in the eighties with his cute face, soft voice and the slight campness about him

Eevn though I think this thread is largely bollocks, someone should post a link to ade x's wonderful post from some months back where he explained how following New Order around in the early 80s made him accept his (homo)sexuality. All those young lads with short hair, apparently. Oh, and Bernard's youthful good looks.....

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Eevn though I think this thread is largely bollocks, someone should post a link to ade x's wonderful post from some months back where he explained how following New Order around in the early 80s made him accept his (homo)sexuality. All those young lads with short hair, apparently. Oh, and Bernard's youthful good looks.....

Too bad he seems to have disappeared. He had a very memorable writing style, borrowed from Burroughs though it was.

yeah, stephen is gay and gillian is his fag-hag!

seriously though...... NO have clearly been influenced by gay disco tunes and some of that scene. Not sure that they a have a HUGE gay following though. NO seem to have the weirdest, most mixed demographic of fans anywhere, gay, straight, working class, posh, hooligans, intellectuals.

Possibly part the reason that they have been successful but not huge in a U2/REM style is that they don't go after a target market!

Spotnick wrote: Who cares if they are bisexual or even a foursome damn it.

It's the music we enjoy.

And I'm not sure Jack, Heather, Grace, Mathilda, Finlay and all the others would be happy to learn their parents are gay

Oh well, I know it happened before ;)

nobody said they were gay.

Al Jarvis wrote:

ant wrote: NO seem to have the weirdest, most mixed demographic of fans anywhere, gay, straight, working class, posh, hooligans, intellectuals.

Who the hell are the gay posh intellectuals who post here then?!

Speak up, or forever hold your tongue!

i'm sure neil tennant posted on here a while back!

Al Jarvis wrote:

Who the hell are the gay posh intellectuals who post here then?!

I reckon there's at least one.

:\pimp3:

depthcharge wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

Who the hell are the gay posh intellectuals who post here then?!

I reckon there's at least one.

:\pimp3:

You leave poor Spike out of this!!!

I'm gay today.. in the old fashioned sense...But the word has since been hijacked by homosexual bum bandit types.. Does Gay now translate as GOOD AS YOU or something like that?

Al Jarvis wrote:

ant wrote: NO seem to have the weirdest, most mixed demographic of fans anywhere, gay, straight, working class, posh, hooligans, intellectuals.

Who the hell are the gay posh intellectuals who post here then?!

Speak up, or forever hold your tongue!

Yeah - that's right, man. Let us be straight working class hooligans like bernard sumner is.

why would anyone think this man is less than 100% hetero?

sugarcane wrote: why would anyone think this man is less than 100% hetero?

it must be his dancing skills

well if new order are a gay band then they are the only gay band in the village. and man am i suprised no one else got that one in:D

we're not alone then... :-)

I never felt that in any songs.

from a straight guy

Barney's dancing the straightest thing about NO

i thought that when i 1st heard "1963"in 1989 and i also thought what the hell if it is a gay song.

sugarcane wrote: Barney's dancing the straightest thing about NO

New Order is not gay, but ya 1963 did also got me thinking lol.

HOWEVER, DM band is gay. I hate them, not because they are gay.

1. Because most of there songs suck, ya they got a few good butt....

2.... They can fill up a concert 15,000 more then NO.

3. However they still suck!!!!

Boatraceface wrote: I'm gay today.. in the old fashioned sense...But the word has since been hijacked by homosexual bum bandit types.. Does Gay now translate as GOOD AS YOU or something like that?

Caveman.

sugarcane wrote: why would anyone think this man is less than 100% hetero?

Why?:

Lyrics. Artists they've worked with. Comments in interviews.

Based on all this I wouldn't be surprised if Barney came out and said that he was a bit 'bi' at sometime in his past.

Al Jarvis wrote:

digitalwaters wrote:

sugarcane wrote: why would anyone think this man is less than 100% hetero?

Lyrics. Artists they've worked with. Comments in interviews.

Yep, he worked with the Chemical Brothers. I mean, what's all that about? Two blokes into dance music, and NO women in the band?! Defo poofs. And in 'Out of Control' he sings about his 'moustache'. Moustache?! HOW FCUKING GAY CAN YOU GET?! A MOUSTACHE!

I read somewhere that the PSBs were gay too, but's that's bollox cos they wrote that catchy one about Girls up West or summat.

In West End Girls, the lyrics also say "East end boys..... as well. On top of that, just because a guy sings about a girl doesn't necessarily mean that he HAS to be straight and vice-versa. Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys came out to the the UK magazine Attitude in 1994 and he is of course, openly gay because of that. You must have been living in a cave to think that both PSB members are straight or something.

Dear Eimi,

He's trying to be funny...

Smilies show the way for the mute of keyboard...

:computer3:

now I'm confused, who is being humorous, who isn't? for the record although I'm sure NO are straight personally, yes I can see the gay elements in the music and I think they add a good dimension. Thats not a joke. However my avatar is.

Humour has absolutely no place in this forum. Take your 'humour' elsewhere, please. Nic - can't we have a "funny" forum where all these fucking comedians can tickle each other: it could be called "WE ALL (think we're) STAND (-up comedians)". Or summat.

IAN CURTIS DIED AND YOU WANT TO BE 'FUNNY'?????

FUCKING PHILISTINES!!!!!!!!!!

That's a joke, right?

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Humour has absolutely no place in this forum. Take your 'humour' elsewhere, please. Nic - can't we have a "funny" forum where all these fucking comedians can tickle each other: it could be called "WE ALL (think we're) STAND (-up comedians)". Or summat.

IAN CURTIS DIED AND YOU WANT TO BE 'FUNNY'?????

FUCKING PHILISTINES!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I would say humor is by definition off-topic.

ths is getting a bit too meta ironic post modern for me. I'm going back to the shorts. Life is simplet there.

digitalwaters wrote:

Boatraceface wrote: I'm gay today.. in the old fashioned sense...But the word has since been hijacked by homosexual bum bandit types.. Does Gay now translate as GOOD AS YOU or something like that?

Caveman.

Ug..Ug :D

Tsk. Tsk.

Boatraceface wrote:

digitalwaters wrote:

Boatraceface wrote: I'm gay today.. in the old fashioned sense...But the word has since been hijacked by homosexual bum bandit types.. Does Gay now translate as GOOD AS YOU or something like that?

Caveman.

Ug..Ug :D

Perhaps there should be a Caveman Club.

He is the head boy at the school, He is the captain of the team, He is so gay and fancy free And I wish all his money belonged to me

Alright, that's what I mean

If anyone wondered whether NO was gay, check out Barney's dancing. Puhleease. That boy is a breeder.

But...I'm sure a lot of their influences have a gay "sensibility" to them (disco, etc.). All their early influences and their talent are what made NO's music so brilliant.

Seriously,I mean call me Captain Caveman here,but I was wondering if the practice of mincing, is exclusivily gay..And is mincing the natural demeanor of gays,or forced?or indeed is mincing exclusive to Homos alone?In short is Mincing a pre-requisite of homosexuality?Or does it occur in breeders too,to the best of my knowledge,it is often put on masqurading as a personality.

Take it easy

I havent had any experience with gay clubs or people - but in my mind it shouldnt really matter if they are gay or whatever.

However, in this case, Gillian being there in the first place would slay this thought in my mind. Plus, In Debbies book there was no gay behaviour even hinted ir implied, unless she chose to leave it out. I think something would have been leaked by now - plus they are all married with kids. Big piece of evidence there.

Boatraceface wrote: Seriously,I mean call me Captain Caveman here,but I was wondering if the practice of mincing, is exclusivily gay..And is mincing the natural demeanor of gays,or forced?or indeed is mincing exclusive to Homos alone?In short is Mincing a pre-requisite of homosexuality?Or does it occur in breeders too,to the best of my knowledge,it is often put on masqurading as a personality.

huh? gay mincing!! there are a lot of heterosexual butchers as well surely

mil wrote: I havent had any experience with gay clubs or people - but in my mind it shouldnt really matter if they are gay or whatever.

However, in this case, Gillian being there in the first place would slay this thought in my mind. Plus, In Debbies book there was no gay behaviour even hinted ir implied, unless she chose to leave it out. I think something would have been leaked by now - plus they are all married with kids. Big piece of evidence there.

Yes, but Martin Gore also has a family and kids now.

I think Barney gets his genders mixed up a tad when hes writing. Just listening to republic and he says 'you are the king of nothing' then he seems to be talking about a relationship gone wrong. He does this a bit - probably from simply not giving a toss about what hes writing alot of the time probably.

I think there are other gayer straight bands out there. I can list a ton of eighties, nineties and other gay 'straight' bands out there.

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote:

mil wrote: I havent had any experience with gay clubs or people - but in my mind it shouldnt really matter if they are gay or whatever.

However, in this case, Gillian being there in the first place would slay this thought in my mind. Plus, In Debbies book there was no gay behaviour even hinted ir implied, unless she chose to leave it out. I think something would have been leaked by now - plus they are all married with kids. Big piece of evidence there.

Yes, but Martin Gore also has a family and kids now.

So did he used to be gay?

sugarcane wrote: I'm going back to the shorts. Life is simplet there.

Or, in the spirit of the thread, "Life is peaceful there."

i'm not sure about every place on Earth, but pretty much all dance clubs with any edge that would even play New Order were predominately gay until the late 80s, when then rave culture exploded and music/club/ youth culture got much more diverse with hiphop, acid house, and alternative. New Order actually had some hits, and were able to at least make waves on the mainstream before True Faith. alternative rock bands that were well known in their circles were lucky to play small dumps in most cities in the early and mid 80s, things pretty much sucked for diversity...

that New Order played gay clubs, or had gay fans in the 80s is irrelevent... there really was not much of a scene otherwise to support acts and I don't think the British/Europeans have that big of hangup as Americans over the gay "label"

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote:

mil wrote: I havent had any experience with gay clubs or people - but in my mind it shouldnt really matter if they are gay or whatever.

However, in this case, Gillian being there in the first place would slay this thought in my mind. Plus, In Debbies book there was no gay behaviour even hinted ir implied, unless she chose to leave it out. I think something would have been leaked by now - plus they are all married with kids. Big piece of evidence there.

Yes, but Martin Gore also has a family and kids now.

Indeedy... one thing some of the posters seem to have forgot is that you can be BISEXUAL!

those pink tour shirts from the late 80s is all i need to think about ;) GAY!

i say that jokingly.... i never really thought of NO being gay, at least not as much as a group like Depeche Mode during Gore's "leather" phase. i was pretty young and didn't even know what gay was though, i just thought it looked odd. nowadays though, hell a six year old probably knows.

quote user="mil"]I havent had any experience with gay clubs or people - but in my mind it shouldnt really matter if they are gay or whatever.

However, in this case, Gillian being there in the first place would slay this thought in my mind. Plus, In Debbies book there was no gay behaviour even hinted ir implied, unless she chose to leave it out. I think something would have been leaked by now - plus they are all married with kids. Big piece of evidence there.

In Deborah's book, she does mention Ian's penchant for visiting gay clubs. Also, when deborah begin thinking Ian was cheating on her she suspected it was with a guy.

Of course, going to a gay club doesn't make you homosexual if it did i would be. Some people seem to misunderstood that this thread was questioning NO's sexuality. It is not, but also at the same time sexuality is not as cut as dried as you may think.

For some reason dance music ie music other than hard rock and heavy metal is associated with homosexuality, especially in this country. This is just wrong. Straight people like to dance as well, if not too well.

PerfectKiss wrote: The fact that they do appeal to the gay crowd is evident to me at 80's night at the local club I've started hanging out at. NO does have a gay/lesbian following at the club--when BM or BLT comes on, everyone starts dancing--gay and straight. I have yet to go to an 80's night where NO isn't played. I don't know if I'd say they are the "gayest" straight band--I think Madonna or Soft Cell have that one covered. I'd have to agree that NO have the dance appeal thing covered though. Just my .02.

Not that I really give a toss about anyone's sexuality, but my ex-boss in the mid to late 80s, who was gay, had most of NO's albums, all but Movement. I know he was a frequenter of the clubs in Portland back then, and I'm pretty sure that's where he heard them. As I said, I didn't really care about his sexuality at all, but I still declined his offer to go to accompany him to Darcelle's, I really didn't need to see a whole host of female impersonators.

Good God, what a bunch of dorky, insecure responses...Ive never heard such a hilarious listing of comments from straight young dweebs trying to respond to a subject of what they think 'gayness' is. Jesus!

New Order had a HUGE gay following during the span of remix releases from Blue Monday thru to Crystal....I think it continues with this years model's as well.

Why is this? for the same reason, I think, that all of you like New Order's remixes. ...they are intelligent yet very club friendly....so many fucking amazing dance songs that have substance....this is not real brain science here, guys.

Barneys lyrics arent GAY....they are just fucking down, depressing, introspective, ironic...all the stuff that makes for a good fucking uplifting dance number....thats why straight clubbers like em, and gay clubbers just the same. What is this separation you guys want to impose here....get lives, for christs sake.

and the GAY DJ's? (that means MOST OF EM, especially the famous ones, in case any of you havent figured that out...they love New Order because the music is SO MUCH BETTER than 90% of the drivel-house they have to work with.

thats all Im done

Ronald Kirsch wrote: For some reason dance music ie music other than hard rock and heavy metal is associated with homosexuality, especially in this country. This is just wrong. Straight people like to dance as well, if not too well.

 Totally fooking agree with you on that point Ron, esp. after a brown ale/white wine or three(One drink wouldn't do it....)