Confusion. Great song?

I played Substance for the first time in yonks today and forgot just how brilliant all 12 tracks are. The one that stood out on todays listen was Confusion. I think its a very catchy pop song and a much superior version the the original 1983 Arthur Baker mix.

Barneys "Chic"-type guitar part is one of his best guitar riffs (IMO) and the whole song sounds very layered, with well executed vocals from Barney and excellent lyrics, big beats and great keyboards.

I love the slap bass at the end and the choir type "why cant you see" finale (including someone mentioning Housemartins and lots of laughter). But my favourite bit would have to be when Barney yelps "WHAT" on the final "Show you WHAT you cannot see" line.

In comparison the original sounds a right miss-mash and Barneys obviously on his hospital bed for the vocal track.

I think the '87 re-working should have been released as a single. What do you guys and girls think of it?

It's fantastic in any incarnation, but complete bollocks at the same time.

Substance version is good, but overall the song is far from great.

Confusion is bloody great. What's all this harsh critism against it? I don't get it, the song is great, both Original and Substance versions.

So far ahead of the tine. I noticed recently that nooler's tend to lean against new order's more experimental side.

I say Barney Army's version is quality! :D

Repetitive twat! Me not him!

its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

It's certainly one of their hippest songs. Both versions are strong dance tracks without that smirking, elbow-nudging in-joke factor that Blue Monday has in spades.

Though I think it would have been interesting to see the band further experiment with breakbeats and NYC proto-hip hop as ACR and the Clash did, it just wouldn't have been New Order. Oh well, at least they got Thieves Like Us out of the collaboration.

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

a classic 22 years old its crazy i bought it the first day it came out all the critisism is just because it was so different

oh enough, Confusion is really good, i'd say it's definately one of their best songs.

CLASSIC and the story of my LIFE!:D

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

you probably dont but listen to any old skool hip hop weekend and you can hear similar songs new order didnt invent New York Hip Hop experimented with it

temptation is a great song, true faith is a great song, confusion is an Okay song

frank smarra wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

you probably dont but listen to any old skool hip hop weekend and you can hear similar songs new order didnt invent New York Hip Hop experimented with it

temptation is a great song, true faith is a great song, confusion is an Okay song

Oh, i do listen to early hip hop. NO did not invent NYC hip hop, but nobody interwined those elements as well as them. The killers, and interpol would die to write a song like this.

Confusion always stiked me as a song they came up with after listening to ESG.

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

you probably dont but listen to any old skool hip hop weekend and you can hear similar songs new order didnt invent New York Hip Hop experimented with it

temptation is a great song, true faith is a great song, confusion is an Okay song

Oh, i do listen to early hip hop. NO did not invent NYC hip hop, but nobody interwined those elements as well as them. The killers, and interpol would die to write a song like this.

Confusion always stiked me as a song they came up with after listening to ESG.

whats ESG?

ESG was a family hip hop act from the bronx that was signed to factory records. I think they played the opening night at the hacienda. Very good. You would probably recognize some songs as they have been sampled repeatly.

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

you probably dont but listen to any old skool hip hop weekend and you can hear similar songs new order didnt invent New York Hip Hop experimented with it

temptation is a great song, true faith is a great song, confusion is an Okay song

Oh, i do listen to early hip hop. NO did not invent NYC hip hop, but nobody interwined those elements as well as them. The killers, and interpol would die to write a song like this.

Confusion always stiked me as a song they came up with after listening to ESG.

okay music master

frank smarra wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

you probably dont but listen to any old skool hip hop weekend and you can hear similar songs new order didnt invent New York Hip Hop experimented with it

temptation is a great song, true faith is a great song, confusion is an Okay song

Oh, i do listen to early hip hop. NO did not invent NYC hip hop, but nobody interwined those elements as well as them. The killers, and interpol would die to write a song like this.

Confusion always stiked me as a song they came up with after listening to ESG.

okay music master

Hardly, much more your peer. You just assumed i didnt know what i was talking about. No ill will.

I thought the original was mainly written by AB cos NO just fucked around and couldn't come up with much, so AB slapped the bones of a track together, NO filled it out, then a million producers and re-mixers got their hands on it.

Saying that, I LOVE IT, it was released in my final school year, I used to lie in bed, pissed up on cheap cider, headphones on listening to it for hours on end.

Thanks, you just made me feel real old!

As for original and 87 mixes, in 87 I'd have said the 87 mix was best, but that seems to have aged more than the original, funny how that happens, did the same with BM 88.

Unfortunaltely can't vote either way, 87 mix not too good, but confusion in all it's guises, a classic.

Flame me if you must, but it's far from their best IMHO, and hasn't aged anywhere near as well as Ceremony, Temptation, EGG, Lonesome tonight, etc., which are genuinely ageless tracks.

I do really like the Arthur Baker 2002 remix of Confusion, although I suspect this had minimal NO involvement (except for Barney's new vocal). CTB

yay i love it! when you mentioned esg, it clicked into place cos i love them too- moody is a great song- anyhow, I especially like those tiny disco guitars, and the punctive noises on the production- super. and of course i can't not mention those shorts

Confusion is the ONLY TRULY funky track by god...er, NewOrder

Confusion will always be a timeless piece, especially with the electro-sound that seems to be popping up all over the underground scene! however, i never think of it being a 'great song'

I prefer the original, with Larry Tee's electroclash mix in second place.

one of the few on substance which i prefer to the original. not in my top 10 but a great dance track, nonetheless.

Good song. Even my mate who's not keen on their dancier stuff likes it.

Nic, isn't this kind of thread supposed to be in Weekly Song Review forum?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Nic, isn't this kind of thread supposed to be in Weekly Song Review forum?

Youre probably right. Sorry, it wont happen again. But it got a fair response. So I feel its justified.

The song's a classic. Particularly the last minute or so. It's one of those songs that gets the hairs on my neck standing

Aries wrote: I prefer the original, with Larry Tee's electroclash mix in second place.

The electroclash version to me is the best.

Wathever the version, 'Confusion' is just NewOrder in plain Brilliance !!

I love the orginal version of confusion....not so keen on the substance version. They dropped the "ra ta ta ta hey" bit which is just genius.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Jonathan wrote: Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

Check out "A.E.I.O.U" by Freeez. Came out around the same time, but was a veritable smash hit (at least, on this side of the pond) by comparison. Take a listen though, the similarities are remarkable. I think there's a mash-up between these two tracks somewhere?!

Al its 'I.O.U',and yeah they`re practically the same (both co-written by AB) both sampled on 'Breakers Revenge' from Beat Street it even sounds like Bernard singing.

Have to go for underrated classic; although the plethora of remixes have elevated it's rating no end.

The bassline on the original is knockout; the 2002 remixes sort out the vocals; giving it the sublime realisation it deserves.

frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

YES. FOR STARTERS...

IOU by Freeez

SOME PEOPLE JUST DONT KNOW THEIR MUSICAL HERITAGE. SOME PEOPLE ARE BLINKERED. CONFUSION WAS ARTHUR BAKER. NEW ORDER WAS THE TAG. CAN U REALLY SEE NEW ORDER COMING UP WITH CONFUSION IN ITS FINAL STATE!!??? NOPE.

RAISE YER GLASSES TO ARTHUR BAKER - THE SILENT NEW ORDER MEMBER Circa 1983 :-) :-) ;-)

TONY WILSON wrote: frank smarra wrote: its an Okay Song, Although it was experimental for them there were 50 songs just like it in the early 80's on WBLS, some Produced by Arthur Baker

Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

YES. FOR STARTERS...

IOU by Freeez

SOME PEOPLE JUST DONT KNOW THEIR MUSICAL HERITAGE. SOME PEOPLE ARE BLINKERED. CONFUSION WAS ARTHUR BAKER. NEW ORDER WAS THE TAG. CAN U REALLY SEE NEW ORDER COMING UP WITH CONFUSION IN ITS FINAL STATE!!??? NOPE.

RAISE YER GLASSES TO ARTHUR BAKER - THE SILENT NEW ORDER MEMBER Circa 1983 :-) :-) ;-)

Well its all your fault anyway Tony. If you hadnt wanted a CD of all the singles for the car we wouldnt have the 87 remix...

i think mainly it depends on whether you listened to Confusion first time round. If you did then it's a bookmark in your life coz it was so different, and listening to it takes you right back.

Thats how it is for me, and I love it.

If I listened to it now, for the first time? who knows, maybe I'd think it was gash?

NObabe wrote: I say Barney Army's version is quality! :D

Repetitive twat! Me not him!

Cool:Ratz in the house

johnboy586 wrote: I love the orginal version of confusion....not so keen on the substance version. They dropped the "ra ta ta ta hey" bit which is just genius.

no they didnt!

Al Jarvis wrote:

Jonathan wrote: Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

Check out "A.E.I.O.U" by Freeez. Came out around the same time, but was a veritable smash hit (at least, on this side of the pond) by comparison. Take a listen though, the similarities are remarkable. I think there's a mash-up between these two tracks somewhere?!

Nothing like each other!!

Who is it speaking/laughing at the end of the Substance version of 'Confusion' ("...fookin' 'ell Martin")????

NO Regret wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

Jonathan wrote: Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

Check out "A.E.I.O.U" by Freeez. Came out around the same time, but was a veritable smash hit (at least, on this side of the pond) by comparison. Take a listen though, the similarities are remarkable. I think there's a mash-up between these two tracks somewhere?!

Nothing like each other!!

Im with Al on this one. the original is almost a carbon copy.

i don't think it's the equal of the original, because it's the sloppiness and of-its-moment qualities that get me on that one. other than the ceremony 12"(and i suppose working overtime), it's the best example of an outside influence on the band. mmm, electro.
the 87 version is much cleaner, which is unfortunate in a way. the cleaness worked on temptation (still like the original of that better too) a little better than it did on confusion. this i must say: the 87 dub is pure genius. pure. mmm.

TONY WILSON wrote:

SOME PEOPLE JUST DONT KNOW THEIR MUSICAL HERITAGE. SOME PEOPLE ARE BLINKERED.

hmm. "tony," you speak of heritage... then you just take one step to the side. where's the heritage? go on, teach us. give us the specifics of new york electro, and tell us of the early career of mr. baker. i want the essay on my desk by monday morning.

NO Regret wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

Jonathan wrote: Hmm. I dont remember any of these songs. Could you elaborate?

Check out "A.E.I.O.U" by Freeez. Came out around the same time, but was a veritable smash hit (at least, on this side of the pond) by comparison. Take a listen though, the similarities are remarkable. I think there's a mash-up between these two tracks somewhere?!

Nothing like each other!!

I know this song also, and i can see some comparisons. But no carbon copy. I just think it represents the time in music esp. in Nyc where bands were bringing a lot of different things to the table.

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Who is it speaking/laughing at the end of the Substance version of 'Confusion' ("...fookin' 'ell Martin")????

I've always thought "Fuckin Housemartins" was muttered at the end by Bernard on the vynil.Confusion is awful too IMO

"Fuckin ell Martin" isn`t it?.Whoever Martin is

NO Regret wrote:

johnboy586 wrote: I love the orginal version of confusion....not so keen on the substance version. They dropped the "ra ta ta ta hey" bit which is just genius.

no they didnt!

it just sounds different, is all. not as raw.

"ra ta ta ta ta ta ta hey!" :-)

Theres 4 versions on the original 12" vinyl and we are all concentrating on the vocal versions when in my opinion - CONFUSED BEATS is one worth listening too!

Barney Army wrote: i think mainly it depends on whether you listened to Confusion first time round. If you did then it's a bookmark in your life coz it was so different, and listening to it takes you right back.

Thats how it is for me, and I love it.

If I listened to it now, for the first time? who knows, maybe I'd think it was gash?

Pretty much sums it up for me, though I still think I'd love it today. I've got Confusion somewhere toward the top of my NO singles list, it definitely was one of the most played.

'ELL YA! I like dat one! The insramental on disk 2 is good. However, the best on the album is "Shell Shock" and "Every-things Gone Green".