Why is BM-88 on there and not true faith 94 and BM95? And wasn't In a Lonely Place a double Aside? And 1963 is in the wrong place! And there is no Confusion-02, Video 586 !!! or Peel session ( i jest on the last 3)
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Singles...Something's botherin' me
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ITS A SINGLES COLLECTION. NO NEED TO PUT NUMEROUS VERSION OF THE SAME SONG ON THE ALBUM. ONE VERSION OF EACH SINGLE WHATEVER THE VERSION (PREFERABLY THE ORIGINAL 7") IS SUFFICE. ITS NOT "RETRO" ALL OVER AGAIN!
NEXT MAYBE WE WILL HAVE... SINGLES (THE REMIXES) or/and SINGLES (THE B SIDES)
"ra ta ta ta ta ta ta hey"!
Zzzzzz....
TF '94 was virtually identical to the original version -- I think it's just a remastering / clean-up job, basically. It would have been redundant.
They could have included the Hardfloor edit of BM, I suppose, but does anyone really want three version of BM, including two crap remixes, on a single compilation?
There's also Confusion '02, of course. Again, no big loss.
I've never heard of "In a Lonely Place" being considered a double a-side with "Ceremony." But since an edit of the original b-side version of "1963" seems to have made it onto the collection, I suppose they could have included IALP. Isn't the 7" mix of EGG technically a b-side too, according to the matrix numbers? I'm not sure of it.
marcus mee wrote: Why is BM-88 on there and not true faith 94 and BM95? And wasn't In a Lonely Place a double Aside? And 1963 is in the wrong place! And there is no Confusion-02, Video 586 !!! or Peel session ( i jest on the last 3)
In A Lonely Place is a b-side, not an a-side.
The most likely explanation is BM-88 is the nearest thing to a 7" version of the original song so long as NO continue to dislike the original 83 Japanese 7". Plus it was a genuine Factory release (nostalgia). BM-95 was a reissue collection of remixes with no definitive 7" version for them to include, unless you count the relatively obscure Hardfloor Radio Edit from a promotional CD. Certainly the emphasis as with (the rest of) release seemed to indicate that the Hardfloor mix was "Blue Monday-95" itself. With True Faith-94, what's the point of having the original True Faith 87 on the first disc then a "slightly cleaned up" cut down version on disc 2? Answer: none. A more worthy candidate would've been Let's Go (Nothing For Me) as it was technically released as a promo single in the States in 95 and promoted their version of (the best of).
You could argue 1963 is in the wrong place but not really, it was originally written in 1987 along with TF. A recent magazine article indicated True Faith and 1963 were considered both a-sides by the band until they had to make a final choice for release. The re-release in 1995 was coincidental IMO so makes fuck all difference, who cares whether it's on Disc 1 or 2? :)
TONY WILSON wrote: "ra ta ta ta ta ta ta hey"!
Zzzzzz....
Incidentally er, TONY WILSON, whatever happened to that fabled Waiting For The Sirens' Call CD single you told us about which supposedly featured the Jap 7" version of Blue Monday as well as an instrumental version of 1963? Neither of those tracks have featured on promos which have surfaced so far nor are they that believable that they would at all.
NOOL replies by TONY WILSON regarding WFTSC (scroll halfway down)
Any clues, or was it bollocks all along? 
As they say on Chewin' The Fat, I can definitely smell shite.
marcus mee wrote: Why is BM-88 on there and not true faith 94 and BM95? And wasn't In a Lonely Place a double Aside? And 1963 is in the wrong place! And there is no Confusion-02, Video 586 !!! or Peel session ( i jest on the last 3)
It's as simple as that: BM-95 and TF-94 had NOTHING to do with the band - they DID NOT contribute anything. It's basically just remixes of old songs done without any participation of New Order. Indeed, Confusion 2002 has some right to be included since it's got NEW vocals from Barney. :)
Video 586 has never been a proper single. It's just a 22-minute piece that had to be placed somewhere and so it was - on a CD, 15 years later. It's the same as if the Peter Saville Soundtrack would be called a 'single'.
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
Wrong. It was remixed by Quincy Jones,well one of his team anyway. I think it was part of the deal they signed to Qwest in the USA.
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
marcus mee wrote: Why is BM-88 on there and not true faith 94 and BM95? And wasn't In a Lonely Place a double Aside? And 1963 is in the wrong place! And there is no Confusion-02, Video 586 !!! or Peel session ( i jest on the last 3)
It's as simple as that: BM-95 and TF-94 had NOTHING to do with the band - they DID NOT contribute anything. It's basically just remixes of old songs done without any participation of New Order. Indeed, Confusion 2002 has some right to be included since it's got NEW vocals from Barney. :)
Video 586 has never been a proper single. It's just a 22-minute piece that had to be placed somewhere and so it was - on a CD, 15 years later. It's the same as if the Peter Saville Soundtrack would be called a 'single'.
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
if yer asking a question, the answer is: definitely not. BM-88 was totally quincy jones' idea. i know i've heard someone in NO say that quincy wanted to do something new with the song and they gave their approval.
**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote:
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
Wrong. It was remixed by Quincy Jones,well one of his team anyway. I think it was part of the deal they signed to Qwest in the USA.
uhhh...beat me too it aye?
Chuckles wrote:
**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote:
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
Wrong. It was remixed by Quincy Jones,well one of his team anyway. I think it was part of the deal they signed to Qwest in the USA.
uhhh...beat me too it aye?
Well we brits are about 10hrs ahead of you...
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
marcus mee wrote: Why is BM-88 on there and not true faith 94 and BM95? And wasn't In a Lonely Place a double Aside? And 1963 is in the wrong place! And there is no Confusion-02, Video 586 !!! or Peel session ( i jest on the last 3)
It's as simple as that: BM-95 and TF-94 had NOTHING to do with the band - they DID NOT contribute anything. It's basically just remixes of old songs done without any participation of New Order. Indeed, Confusion 2002 has some right to be included since it's got NEW vocals from Barney. :)
Video 586 has never been a proper single. It's just a 22-minute piece that had to be placed somewhere and so it was - on a CD, 15 years later. It's the same as if the Peter Saville Soundtrack would be called a 'single'.
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
Video 586 is an EP
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: It's as simple as that: BM-95 and TF-94 had NOTHING to do with the band - they DID NOT contribute anything. It's basically just remixes of old songs done without any participation of New Order. Indeed, Confusion 2002 has some right to be included since it's got NEW vocals from Barney. :)
The BM-95 Hardfloor mix has a new vocal take by Barney. It definitely isn't the 83 vocal so you could say something new was contributed by the band for that release.
**[black]STEVE[/black]**one wrote:
While BM-88 was a re-make done by New Order themselves.
Wrong. It was remixed by Quincy Jones,well one of his team anyway. I think it was part of the deal they signed to Qwest in the USA.
I remember reading somewhere that Steve and Gillian added some of the samples and new synth overdubs to BM before it was then mixed and edited by the Qwest team into BM-88. Haven't a clue where I heard this, but I'm sure some of the overdubs were NO's work?
Andy
I believed BM-88 had new vocals?? And hell I do know about Quincy productions.... Anyway it was the 1988 version that was remixed in 1995 again.... ahem accroding to the True Faith book :)
well, who did the 12" Blue Monday 88 and the two versions B- sides of of The Beach?
the 88 single edit is an excellent condensed re-version of the song, different enough and a significant part of the bands history to belong on the set IMO.
the Hardfloor remix is nice too, they showed respect for the song while still transforming it to a German version of a Chicago acid house track, one of New order's better remixes, but belongs on the New Order "Remixes" triple CD set which will come out someday which all of you will bitch about as having a bunch of remixes that totally suck and are stupid except for the couple of remixes which you really like
TONY WILSON wrote: ITS A SINGLES COLLECTION. NO NEED TO PUT NUMEROUS VERSION OF THE SAME SONG ON THE ALBUM. ONE VERSION OF EACH SINGLE WHATEVER THE VERSION (PREFERABLY THE ORIGINAL 7") IS SUFFICE. ITS NOT "RETRO" ALL OVER AGAIN!
NEXT MAYBE WE WILL HAVE... SINGLES (THE REMIXES) or/and SINGLES (THE B SIDES)
"ra ta ta ta ta ta ta hey"!
Zzzzzz....
Murder is missing.
586 is missing (OK, EP etc... but they could use the 'Cool As Ice' edit).
Someone Like You is missing.
Murder went top 40, so no excuse for that being absent...
WFTSC will be an obscurity if only release is on 7", so why not the other three oddballs...?
I agree Murder is missing and very much deserves to belong, but I guess it is not "pop"... and maybe was considered as a secondary part of the Thieves Like Us set. Heck, there is space for other early B-sides (which i really like) and personally i think it would make a stronger collection, but I guess that ruins the idea of a mainstream "pop" collection
craig's digitalwaters wrote: Murder is missing.
586 is missing.
Someone Like You is missing.
Murder went top 40, so no excuse for that being absent...
Murder was never released as a single in the UK, it was a Belgian import 12" only and let's face it, no matter how well loved the track is it's not an obvious "single" being a thrashing instrumental. I doubt the band are losing any sleep over the fact it's not on this release. Look no further than Substance for the band's attitude towards Murder, confining it to disc 2 of Substance along with the other bsides. An import obscurity at best. Can anyone actually confirm it really did reach number 31 in the UK chart as it states in NOOL's discog? I'd be surprised if a Belgian import record would even be eligible to enter the UK chart.
I don't recall 586, the PC&L version ever being released as a single. 'Video 586' was an obscure 22 minute instrumental released on an indie record label in 1997. It wasn't an official London records release, it's 22 minutes long, it has no band elements other than a plodding synth line. Again, with no seven inch version it was never really going to be included, and would sound badly out of place on Singles anyway.
Finally, Someone Like You wasn't really a single. It was a widely available promotional pack of remixes, each 12" I have says "for promotional purposes only". There is no radio edit or seven inch version (the point of Singles), there wasn't even a CD release aside from in house CDR promos so again it wasn't appropriate for Singles.
I've looked in my NME chart book and Murder was, definately in the top 40 in the early 80's!
(It's at work at the moment so can't give the exact date, but could clarify next week).
Murder categorically did NOT go top 40, despite where various people read about it doing so - it actually only got as far as number 87 or something - being a Belgian import. At the time during the 1980s (as seen in long-defunct chart weekly inkie Record Mirror) the singles and albums charts were extended to a top 100, before being split into a 75 and "the next 25" a couple of years after.
pumped full of drugs wrote: well, who did the 12" Blue Monday 88 and the two versions B- sides of of The Beach?
the 88 single edit is an excellent condensed re-version of the song, different enough and a significant part of the bands history to belong on the set IMO.
The 88 single edit is passable minus all the superfluous crap Jones threw into the mix, the band should've just bypassed him and done a straight 7" edit of the original. The 12" version of 88 is a travesty, just what exactly are all these 'crushing ice', 'boy this is too much!!', and 'japanese speech' samples all about? 
There's probably a reason it never got re-released on anything other than bootlegs. Quincy remixing a band as cool as New Order was not a good idea, he took a sparse mix and added as much as he could turning it into a mess of sound 
I agree with you on the BM-95 Hardfloor Mix, a much better update of the record's sound than 88.
According to True Faith: An Armchair Guide to New Order, BM-88 was a rerecording, at the same time as they were recoding the Sunkist ad, in early 1988.
Quincy Jones did not remix BM'88. It was John "Tokes" Potoker. Jones is credited as "executive producer" or somesuch, which looks to be just a way to selling some records with the famous producer's name.
"Beach Buggy," from what I recall, was remixed by Michael Johnson, NO's engineer.
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: According to True Faith: An Armchair Guide to New Order, BM-88 was a rerecording, at the same time as they were recoding the Sunkist ad, in early 1988.
That, frankly is bollocks. Just listen to it. Same vocals. Certainly a different take of the vocals on the 1995 version, that may well have been laid down in 1988, but it's virtually the same 1983 mix, with different levels and some samples thrown in. The same remixing team would have done the 12" mix too, and probably that 'dub' version on the Qwest CD single.
I've just ordered that book, so hope I won't be correcting its "research" for months to come 
Still no one confirming Steve and Gillian's additional input before the Qwest mix was made? Sure they did some overdubs themselves. Probably all the silly spoken word samples!
Andy
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Murder categorically did NOT go top 40, despite where various people read about it doing so - it actually only got as far as number 87 or something -
Ah well, yes & no. I think it went top 50 (Shug, do you have the Guinness Book? Mine is top 40 only, so its not listed). In the NME chart (also prety accurate at that time) it got to number 30 on 2ndJune1984, spending 4 weeks in their top 50 charts (37-30-34-47).
Mr Discography wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: According to True Faith: An Armchair Guide to New Order, BM-88 was a rerecording, at the same time as they were recoding the Sunkist ad, in early 1988.
That, frankly is bollocks. Just listen to it. Same vocals. Certainly a different take of the vocals on the 1995 version, that may well have been laid down in 1988, but it's virtually the same 1983 mix, with different levels and some samples thrown in. The same remixing team would have done the 12" mix too, and probably that 'dub' version on the Qwest CD single.
I've just ordered that book, so hope I won't be correcting its "research" for months to come
Still no one confirming Steve and Gillian's additional input before the Qwest mix was made? Sure they did some overdubs themselves. Probably all the silly spoken word samples!
Andy
Alright, let me get home and I'll listen to them! I guess I've got that impression due to the vocal modulations in BM-88.
CuanaD wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Murder categorically did NOT go top 40, despite where various people read about it doing so - it actually only got as far as number 87 or something -
Ah well, yes & no. I think it went top 50 (Shug, do you have the Guinness Book? Mine is top 40 only, so its not listed). In the NME chart (also prety accurate at that time) it got to number 30 on 2ndJune1984, spending 4 weeks in their top 50 charts (37-30-34-47).
If you're talking about the other "alternative" charts, then yes Murder went top 30 or whatever. But in the official (Gallup as it was known still in the 1980s) top 100 charts it only scraped into the bottom end 80's simply cos it wasn't a full-blooded UK release, hence it will most certainly not be listed in the Guinness Book of British Hit Singles. All you will see once you consult that will be Thieves Like Us at number 18 followed by The Perfect Kiss at number 46.
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Alright, let me get home and I'll listen to them! I guess I've got that impression due to the vocal modulations in BM-88.
To be honest, I've got to agree with Andy here. From the first time I heard Blue Monday-88 to listening to it as I write this post, the vocals are the original 83 and not a re-recording The bass too sounds identical and the only new stuff I can hear is a few extra hi-hats and perhaps better mastering, aside from that it's obviously sourced from the original 83 12".
'Murder' charted at no.37 on 26th May 1984.
It peaked at no.30 the week after.
Source: 40 Years of NME Charts 1952-1992.
The NME charts were the first UK based charts listing (well, i'm pretty sure they were).
Surely it should be according to the Gallup poll, which is what the BBC used, as someone who grew up in the 80's this is the cart everyone recognised, not some chart by pretentious journalists
Jed Stephens wrote: Surely it should be according to the Gallup poll, which is what the BBC used, as someone who grew up in the 80's this is the cart everyone recognised, not some chart by pretentious journalists
NME charts was a chart based on sales thou'.
Haven't got any access to old Gallup charts, but they shouldn't be too different?
Either way; they should have slung in a BSides disc... even if it was ltd. edition.
Never mind...
Exactly, Jed.
Who tuned in between 5-7pm on Sunday evenings to listen to the NME Top 40 chart rundown on BBC Radio 1 as presented by Bruno Brookes? Who switched on to see Steve Wright, Mike Read and the other wags presenting the NME Top 40 rundown on TOTP back int the halcyon days of the poptastic 80s?
I know we DID have a rival "Network Chart" around the same time that manifested itself on the ill-fated ITV chart show The Roxy, but that didn't last did it?
Who else has noticed that the guitar bit in "Beach Buggy" is a direct lift from A Certain Ratio's "Wild Party" ?
Uh, did anyone else notice that the left and right channels are reversed? At least they are on several tracks on Disc 1 (I didn't check them all though).
Geez, with all the screw ups in the past, you'd think London would have sent a reference disc to Spotnick to check for mistakes before it went into production.
