'Singles' Released.

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193089-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

and WFTSC CDS

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193080-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

So, definitely the original Ceremony and Temptation 7" versions, that's good, and glad they've used the original version of 1963 (even though it wasn't technically a single in this form) and seem to have edited it in the same place as the Arthur Baker Radio Edit to keep is a bit shorter. Also good news that Turn is definitely on there (sounds slightly remixed - wonder if it's another Rich Costey job?), I guess it'll be a single about November to remind people that this compilation is out.

BUT:

That 'Confusion' mix is en edit of the 'Rough Mix' - never heard that before... Definitely not the original 7 inch. Odd.

ALSO The Brotherhood version of Bizarre Love Triangle? Okay, the best version of it, but I thought these were meant to be the "original" radio versions?

AND Why the 12" of True Faith, when it's meant to be all the original "45s"

AND As, per usual, Run - not Run 2 in any way shape or form

Also, I'm glad they used the Album Edit of Spooky, but this never actually came out in the UK - we had the Fluke Radio Edit instead.

So, a pretty comprehensive collection representing New Order's own versions of their tunes, but "definitive", my arse.

Andy

Yes it seems that these are not exactly all the SINGLES as released at the time.But i did not really expect anything different now.

Damn.i was looking forward to having BLT 7" on CD not the album version.Run ?.Not Run 2?.Points deducted there as usual.At least ,finally, Ceremony and Temptation 7" have finally made it !!

Well, as I've said before, once I've got this CD and know 100% sure some of them ain't the proper single versions, I will try to ensure that those who want the original single versions can at least get hold of them as decent quality mp3s - if the record label won't distribute them to us, and we can't get hold of them without paying a fortune (as I have done over the years) then we may as well distribute them between ourselves, hadn't we. Not like the label will be losing any money on our part, as we all buy the releases, and other make profit from re-selling on Ebay, etc.

Andy

TOKOLOSHE MAN wrote: http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193089-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

and WFTSC CDS

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193080-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

I get error messages from both of those links.

Here's the approximate track times:

Ceremony 4:39 Procession 4:29 Everything’s Gone Green 4:10 Temptation 5:24 Blue Monday 7:26 Confusion 4:56 Thieves Like Us 3:57 The Perfect Kiss 4”51 Sub-Culture 3:27 Shellshock 4:24 State of the Nation 3:32 Bizarre Love Triangle 4:22 True Faith 5:54 1963 4:21 Touched by the Hand of God 3:44 Blue Monday 1988 4:09 Fine Time 3:10 Round & Round 4:00 Run [1] 4:31 World in Motion 4:32 Regret 4:10 Ruined in a Day 3:58 World 3:40 Spooky 3:45 Crystal 4:21 60 Miles an Hour 3:50 Here to Stay 3:57 Krafty 3:47 Jetstream 3:44 Waiting For the Sirens’ Call 3:52 Turn 4:13

Well worth it for what they got right (Ceremony, Temptation, EGG, Thieves, etc) but still some opportunities for next time.

Blue Monday missing first beats (again!) Confusion is an edit of the Rough Mix, even shorter than the Perfect Beats edit. The Perfect Kiss is the Low-Life version Bizarre Love Triangle is the album version 1963 is an edit, but it's not the 1994 or 1995 version Run 2 is album version of Run (again!)

Definitely more right than wrong. After 2 or 3 more best of compilations we'll find very little to complain about.

Not that I'm complaining.

Ah yes.

Turn is definitely a remix and may be a single after all.

Patrick wrote:

TOKOLOSHE MAN wrote: http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193089-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

and WFTSC CDS

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193080-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

I get error messages from both of those links.

me too..

Andy wrote: Ah yes.

Turn is definitely a remix and may be a single after all.

Are you going purely by the running times, or have you heard it?

The Singles US version includes any different mix or bonus track?

Andy wrote: Confusion is an edit of the Rough Mix, even shorter than the Perfect Beats edit. The Perfect Kiss is the Low-Life version Bizarre Love Triangle is the album version 1963 is an edit, but it's not the 1994 or 1995 version Run 2 is album version of Run (again!)

...as I had already mentioned above..

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193089-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/193080-01.htm&highlight=new%20order

now ok :)

OK - extremely confused.

As far as I can tell, because i'm sort of new to new order - I have never heard

original temptation original confusion single BLT.

Are they very different? BLT I have heard the album version and the Substance one - or was that the single version? Sopmeone told me that was a misprint and was actually an extended dance mix?

I know for sure that I have never heard confusion or temptation - i'm looking forward to them when this comes out in oz as they are meant to be darker, right?

Mil, you need to get "Retro" - it has both the original 12" versions of Temptation and Confusion. I don't know if I'd say 'darker' versions necessarily, just different. Temptation was their first self-produced number, and as such is a little muddy production-wise (but utterly fantastic), and Confusion is...well...not Temptation. The BLT single remix is only available on CD on the BLT maxi-CD single - it is different from the version on Substance (and very much shorter), and it's a bit closer to the album version than the substance one, but is in some ways a hybrid of the two versions. CTB

Of course, BLT single version was also available on 7", don't forget!

I think the problem arises from New Order not giving mixes names in the early days. Back when things actually came out on 7" and 12" and there were only really long and short versions of the tunes (not all these DJ dance remixes) you'd get (for example) a 7" of Temptation and a longer 12" of Temptation, each with no mix title - but we'd obviously know one was the shorter version, and one an extended mix (in the case of Temptation, actually two distinct different recordings in their own right). As time progressed, and other producers/DJs began doing the extended mixes for New Order, the mix titles didn't really creep in until the time of Republic. So, you get the 12" of 'Sub-culture' which is actually a John Robie remix, and 'Bizarre Love Triangle', which is often referred to as the 'Shep Pettibone Remix' or 'Extended Dance Version' on various US releases - but us Brits still simply know it as the 12" of Bizarre Love Triangle (as it's listed on 'Substance').

As said already, Temptation was New Order's first go at producing themselves, and for the original Confusion they worked with American hip-hop producer Arthur Baker. These were quite revolutionary singles at the time, but suffered from lower production values on Temptation (due to them producing themselves) and a dodgy vocal take on Confusion (rushed recording, Barney with a cold). This probably explains why the two songs were re-recorded for Substance in quite starkly different ways (to sound more like the digital, live versions they were performing back in the 80s).

The originals of these songs are still (usually) regarded as the best versions, reagrdless of iffy vocals and lo-fi mixes, as they capture the time of their release much better than the more polished re-recordings. Probably the reason Tony Wilson wanted them on 'Substance', not the new versions.

Andy

I'm glad to see that we have good old Arial/Helvetica on the back sleeve...

I'm planning on getting 'Singles', but can anyone tell me how essential Retro is beyond the original 12" of Temptation and other hard to find tracks? I tend to be a completist only in terms of LPs, not compilations. Am I missing out big time? I didn't recall Retro receiveing many favourable reviews. How's the live disc?

More mistakes - it should bloody well be "BLUE MONDAY 1988" Not fooking '88. The lazy stupid incompetent fucks! Still fooking smarting about that artwork for the 2CD comp. I mean - for goodness sakes. Talk about a five second job that cost about 2p to knock off.....

Note how the typeface is also a poor attempt at revisiting the one used on the 7" Ceremony (Friz Quadrata?) If they were going to try and reprise that then why couldn't it have been a GOLD sleeve with embossed lettering like that one (which after all was their first release). The leaf motif is supposed to be Kraftwerkian in its mesh-like computer render, but it is a bit weak. If the background was a dark colour instead that leaf could have been brought out nicely in gold, and the typography in another metallic ink - after all, we want a New Order anthology to look like a "quality" product, not an insubstantial cobbled-together piece of crap like this one. I hate white sleeves now cos Saville has done them to death. SEVEN and counting - can you believe it? :no:

To be honest, I was never that keen on the "Substance 1987" cover either. I actually feel that the New Order and Joy Division Substances should have actually exchanged sleeve art with one another.....serifed fonts always fitted with everything JD did anyway....

JV --

The five-disc limited edition of Retro is somewhat good to have since the bonus disc contains a few otherwise unreleased cuts (the full-length Elegia, Temptation '98) and some moderately hard to find b-sides and other odds 'n' ends.

The other four discs are pretty inessential. On the first two discs, only the original 12" version of Confusion is otherwise not available on CD. The 12" version of Temptation can be found on the Canadian 1981-1982 EP, which is getting a little hard to find these days but is worth tracking down for the proper version of Mesh and the full 12" version of Hurt. Confusion and Temptation are the only two tracks are on the first discs of Retro that are even semi-rare.

Disc 3 is all remixes. The Paradise mix by Robert Racic is very similar to the original, but extended, and it's worth having. The disc as a whole is inessential, though.

Disc 4 is live tracks from throughout the band's career -- there's some excellent material here, but how essential it is depends on how much you like things like 316 and the BBC Radio 1 live disc. If you like those, you should probably get this, too.

All said, it's one of the most redundant and disappointing box sets I've ever seen.

Daniel McCarthy wrote: JV --

The five-disc limited edition of Retro is somewhat good to have since the bonus disc contains a few otherwise unreleased cuts (the full-length Elegia, Temptation '98) and some moderately hard to find b-sides and other odds 'n' ends.

The other four discs are pretty inessential. On the first two discs, only the original 12" version of Confusion is otherwise not available on CD. The 12" version of Temptation can be found on the Canadian 1981-1982 EP, which is getting a little hard to find these days but is worth tracking down for the proper version of Mesh and the full 12" version of Hurt. Confusion and Temptation are the only two tracks are on the first discs of Retro that are even semi-rare.

Disc 3 is all remixes. The Paradise mix by Robert Racic is very similar to the original, but extended, and it's worth having. The disc as a whole is inessential, though.

Disc 4 is live tracks from throughout the band's career -- there's some excellent material here, but how essential it is depends on how much you like things like 316 and the BBC Radio 1 live disc. If you like those, you should probably get this, too.

All said, it's one of the most redundant and disappointing box sets I've ever seen.

But like a sucker, you still bought it, didn't you??? ;)

Patrick wrote:

Andy wrote: Ah yes.

Turn is definitely a remix and may be a single after all.

Are you going purely by the running times, or have you heard it?

I have heard it.
It's obvious immediately as the intro is much shorter. Perhaps "remix" is too strong as the feel of the song is the same (no scratching or disco diva vocals added). It's more of a single mix/edit.

Had a quick flick through the 'Singles' discs today. I think we`ve got 9 tracks previously unavailable on cd,so its not all bad.

Got mine this morning,gonna give em a spin soon!