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I think the weakest parts of New Order, as in all round what i think could be better, is the drumming. A lot of the drumming is very simple and repetative. I think they should start making the drums a little bigger, a lot like Joy Division's drumming, Stephan is good all around, thye have good synths and good bass and good singing and okay drumming. i think if they started making the drumming more dynamic and creative, we could have another Blue Monday.
What do yall think NO could improve
the weakest part would have to Barney's singing, but this is part of the charm of new order. Barney's singing, plus a forwarad bass, is to me the new order sound. Frankly I love it.
CTB you're right. seeing as i like barney's vocals as much as i do, i can't possibly consider it a weak element.
q.e.d. there is no weak element.
Spotnik time to close this thread.
WOAH> BACK OFF STREVEN> He does a great job - Ceremony easy drumming? True Faith? All the sequencing he does on things like Perfect Kiss?No room for criticism there.
Barney is the village idiot, there's no two ways about it, but then he's also their greatest asset as well, he's just inconsistent, it's a concept called "being human".
As for Steve being weak. I bet you either ARE a drummer or have been listening to drummers talking shite. I too was programmed by many a skinbashing mate, into believing Steve was shite and that all the good bits were a machine. Then, I actually listenned to what was played and what was programmed, and the man's a fucking genius. I have NEVER encountered ANY drummer with one 10th of his ability to play along with nasty little machines....never mind that some of the early new order gigs were played with machines that had appalling tempo stability. Is he Buddy Rich or Neil Peart (sp?) ? NO, he always said he just wanted to be a drum machine and go boom bash at regular intervals, in that he has been 100% succesful. He can do clever when he wants (denial comes to mind), but just can't be arsed most of the time. Most drummers are incapable of laying down a solid dance beat like steve, they just can't fucking help themselves but get all bloody clever. I'd say he's the backbone of the band, he's the one that fucks up the least.
Weakest link my balls.
EDIT: someone mentioned ceremony...I was just thinking it's a damned good example of how he can get it wrong. There's a few live versions where his hat pedal mustn't be right or something and it completely throws him. It's usually followed by faint hat-stomping noises before the next song. AOC can sufer the same thing.
I would disagree about Steve being the weakest link. For me, he is consistant without being flash. He does the simple things well.
He stopped doing the drum patterns of Movement along time ago and plays it more straight and dancey now.
For me the weakest link is Barney. He can be really unprofessional at times with the live stuff. Not remembering simple lyrics (eg Your Silent Face), having to use an autocue, singing out of tune, some shabby guitar playing.
I know people keep saying this is part of their charm but im sorry, it isnt. Its just the work of a man who cant be bothered to carry out his duties. If he was the frontman of any other band Im sure No fans would think him a complete tw*t.
Steve the weakest link?! What! Think of Dream Attack, Gulty Partner, Ceremony and tell me that again.
In addition, he's the most inoffensive person in the band. Just get's on with it, listens and decides "I really don't agree with what Bernard is saying, but I can't be arsed to kick-up"
Spoke as a drummer or ex drummer, I think that Steve is incredibly underrated...
The man is a human metronome. It's actually much easier to play a bar or two of a steady beat and then go into a Keith Moon type fill, then to consistantly deliver that same beat with no variation of tempo for 3.5 minutes.
As well, I actually always thought that he would have been a brilliant punk rock drummer as well... His fills on Disorder are as fast as any punk/thrash band out there and what's more he can keep that up for hours...
Excellent drummer... He just chooses not to be as flashy as some... And what's more he's sort of patented that sixteenth note high hat and off beat tom hit a la Ceremony that every New Wave band after copied through out the 1980's...
I think the weak link in New Order has been the marketing of the last two albums.
I'd say the weakest New Order element (Ok not strictly a 'band' element) is their record label and some of the decisions the band themselves have (or have not) made regarding their back catalogue. Not much respect has been shown to the older records (albums like Low-life crying out for a proper remaster) and the choice of singles have been intermittently shite; for instance 60 MPH should never have been a single in my opinion and Jetstream should have been confined to a background club release. New Order relying on an 'Ana Matronic' sticker to shift a new single was a particularly sad sight to see and not very Factory.
Also, in the space of a decade we've had four incredibly dull 'best of' compilations versus two new albums which is ever so slightly excessive; the band have allowed Warner to scrape so much of the barrel they've broken down into the next one.
In my mind (the best of), International and Retro are badly compiled projects coupled with pretentious sleeve notes and some would also say, half hearted artwork. I find it particularly difficult to forgive them for Retro as it was a perfect opportunity to open up the record company vaults for the fans rather than compile random tracks we already had 
Instead we got complete disinterest from the band themselves and Miranda Sawyer, Mike Pickering etc. let loose in Nero Burning ROM 
I'd say their weekest element had to be their commitment to a web site, seeing as how nick has saved them a job, they should give him some credit, i.e into his bank account.
As for steve, the man is a star, they all are, (even phil) and without them, i'd sit staring at an empty screen on my computer most of the night, (that's actually a lie, but I can't look at porn all night, the wife gets bit fed up).
If I were to be straight about it, I'd say the weakest element right now is the lack of Gillian. Let me further that.. I would have liked more of Gillian doing background vocals. She did a great job doing guitarwork and keys, and I think I just miss her, is all.
As far as live shows go, I go to see live shows because of what occurs. I feel like with "proper" shows I go to, where people don't make jerks of themselves, or get faceup drunk, or go spotty on the lyrics/place/year just don't have that same spirit of a "live, real people playing live, real music" event. I go to be entertained as I can listen to perfect renditions of songs on any number of the albums I own. I don't get a chance everyday to hear the band laugh at mistakes, shout about boos from the crowd, or theorize on how much people paid to see them live, and whether it was worth it or not. ;)
For myself, the weakest element is that they didn't come to my country - Serbia (exYugoslavia) where they have a lot of funs. Next year I expect big concert in Belgrade. They will have great show here like Underworld this year on EXIT festival.
Iggy wrote: For myself, the weakest element is that they didn't come to my country - Serbia (exYugoslavia) where they have a lot of funs. Next year I expect big concert in Belgrade. They will have great show here like Underworld this year on EXIT festival.
Or at the famous fortress. I believe you come from the place in the "Woodlands". You are certainly right: either Belgrade or Novi Sad would do. People like yourself are definately seeking for that kind of fun, and I'm sure NO would have a great time over there.
The weakest element about New Order is that they were taking drugs and drinking a lot, but, if you ask me, that's perfectly ALRIGHT, cause I myself enjoyed doing so, especially when surrounded by their beautiful music, be it Joy Division, be it New Order.
In my opinion, I think you must remember some of those days. Well, of course, those were the days.
Every drummer I've ever worked with, bad, good or excellent - session musician or beginner has cited Steve Morris as one of the best drummers they've ever heard - both technically and in his innovation. To say that Steve is the 'weakest element' seems rather naive to me... I've always said he's the stringest element and Joy Division were very lucky to get him - New Order were very lucky to keep him!
What's this all about Steve Morris being a weak drummer? He's one of the best in the business. Certainly in the early days of New Order he was the best thing in the band. Him and Hooky were a formidable rythmn section. I think he said he wanted to be a drum machine after working with Martin Hannett.
ROFMLAO
that's the one :)
BTW...is that a picture of shrub and bongo together?
WOW: "Carlsberg don't do assassination opportunities, but if we did....."
The man is a fucking legend. He's going to be 50 in January for Christ's sake and he's still bouncing around looking every bit the ride he did when he was 20.
He has one of the most distinctive voices you are ever likely to hear. His sense of humour on stage is better that it has ever been. He almost killed himself with his 'wild ways' so if his memory is not quite what it was, who gives a shit.
My only criticism is the getting down on his knees lark for BLT this year, but I can live with that.
BERNARD SUMNER IS NEW ORDER....weakest element my ass.
Hannett of the Apes wrote: Bernard is not the weakest link. Missing Link, maybe.
it's fucking MOONWATCER!!!!
For those who DON'T get that instantly...
If you read 2001, instead of just watching that silly kubrick movie, you find that the monolith was altering our ancestors minds by teching them to rave...playing loud dance beats and shining trippy lights at em. Moonwatcher was the first to work it out, the first man so to speak.
Steve is an excellent and unique drummer... but I agree with the original point which I think was made, that the beats have taken a secondary role in recent recordings compared to the 80s. I don't think that this is Steve's fault but is probably what Bernard wants, a more mellow restrained sound
as for weakest element... the awfully inappropiate female "pseudo-soul" background vocals!!! why does Bernard insist in adding these?
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twist wrote: Ian Curtis. The bastard aint done shit for 25 years.
People in the next residence just hear my guffaw over that. Thanks for that! 
Hahaha, I love that comment.
Especially from Hooky considering he gets the touchiest about Ian Curtis, it seems. The brother said he went mental at some person in the audience who shouted something distasteful. And let's face it, you wouldn't want to get in a fight with Hooky, he's quite a big guy..
DaveyMcDave wrote: Hahaha, I love that comment.
Especially from Hooky considering he gets the touchiest about Ian Curtis, it seems. The brother said he went mental at some person in the audience who shouted something distasteful. And let's face it, you wouldn't want to get in a fight with Hooky, he's quite a big guy..
I'd kick the shit outta hooky!!!
Who you kiddin
((((e))))
((((e)))) wrote:
DaveyMcDave wrote: Hahaha, I love that comment.
Especially from Hooky considering he gets the touchiest about Ian Curtis, it seems. The brother said he went mental at some person in the audience who shouted something distasteful. And let's face it, you wouldn't want to get in a fight with Hooky, he's quite a big guy..
I'd kick the shit outta hooky!!!
Who you kiddin
((((e))))
Easy to say that from the safety of the USA, as they don't look like they're going back! 
DaveyMcDave wrote: ...And let's face it, you wouldn't want to get in a fight with Hooky, he's quite a big guy..
Quite a big guy...for a hobbit
He's solid enough, but not exactly a towering figure, is he?
CTB
CTB wrote:
DaveyMcDave wrote: ...And let's face it, you wouldn't want to get in a fight with Hooky, he's quite a big guy..
Quite a big guy...for a hobbit
he's shorter than i am, and seems like a good man. still--fit for a (almost) 50-year-old!
weakest element: the fans who deride phil for not being gillian.
CTB wrote:
DaveyMcDave wrote: ...And let's face it, you wouldn't want to get in a fight with Hooky, he's quite a big guy..
Quite a big guy...for a hobbit
True CTB, Ian was the tall bastard(a bit over 6ft if my memory serves me right. Stevie was/is the next tallest at 5'10 I think. The exact heights are in NOOL's FAQ's from memory). Still in all, Hooky's pretty stocky and nowt one I'd still pick a fight with(Specially if he's wearing his fooking bass at the time!!).
Weakest element of NO? Being too gutless, insanely rich to care or lazy to tell Warner/London off about thier stupid concept of how to "distribute" NO's music to it's already existing fanbase and/or relating it's importance to newer potential fans/product consumers to how much NO REALLY influenced the way some modern pop/rock/dance sounds today.
I'm still bitterly pissed off about the US branch's decision to only do digital downloads of the new US 'virtual or DL' single, GIAUE. More like an 'actual' way of Warner copping out of paying anything to art directors/photographers/printing plants for sleeve production and another way of justifying the shutdown of larger-scale CD duplication plants. Warner are avaricious cunts and I'm sorry that the combined idiocy of both Rob Gretton and Tony Wilson sent Factory to such an early demise. If it were still going as a single-band label(and the Hacienda was only a rented venue, not the admittedly-nice but money-sucking barn it was)NO would still have maintained greater personal control over the product released and may not have lost the cred we've bestowed them with and not have developed the animosity that saw them almost totally destroyed as a working group in the '90s. It's nice to dream innit?
And of course, Hannett might have got his Fairlight after all- what would Movement have sounded like then?? Dreams Never End...if only it were true.
AgentWood wrote: weakest element: the fans who deride phil for not being gillian.
fair point
