When did moshing or 'idiot' dancing begin at NO gigs?

I never got to New Order gigs in the very early eighties but i imagined them to be most of the audience just standing watching.Then i watched the Whistle Test Hacienda TV thing in December 85 and the whole crowd were really going for it, 'Moshing' for want of a better word.That was the first time i witnessed that kind of audience participation.

When was the transition from basically just standing watching and listening to the full up for it 'Idiot' pit? My first experience of actually being in the Idiot pit was 86/87.

Would it be fair to say that the song Sunrise started the whole phenomonon?

Strangely enough, Motorhead frontman Lemmy said that moshing at Motorhead gigs didn't start until about 1983.

Could it have descended from the 'pogo dance' of punk?

I don't know about moshing,but my first time I saw them in 1984 Low-Life tour at the Hacienda,the Order of the day was pogo and crush the person at the front....which was me! It wouldn't happen now..I've got a bit more meat on my bones!!

Started in 83 I think, can't remember any of the 82 shows being that lively at the front.

Well when i say Moshing i mean generally pushing ,shoving ,jumping around, mass heaving of bodies from one side of the stage fron to the other and whatever takes ya fancy to express yourself.

GET INTO THE GROOVE

The Play at Home program showing the Order live at the Hacienda in the Summer of 1983 shows the crowd 'Bouncing' during Temptation if that counts?

Mark Smith wrote: The Play at Home program showing the Order live at the Hacienda in the Summer of 1983 shows the crowd 'Bouncing' during Temptation if that counts?

yeah, there was that

You're right, it never used to happen at the early gigs... I remember it in 1982 when 'Temptation' and 'Hurt' supported the general sway of 'EGG'. But I don't remember the 1st Hacienda gig as being that mosher-active.

Used to have a hard time because we weren't so much into drinking as the boys then. Used to prefer magic mushrooms, not a good idea for moshing. Best to stay at the back.

Has Barney or Hooky ever in their career, dived into the crowd?

I know theyve interacted with the crowd in other ways (ignored, insulted, exchanged punches).:D

don't know in 1987 i got crushed against the stage a few times. being a big fellow i could tale it. that's what happened in the olden days before they seperated the bands from the crowds. In 2002 i got as colse to them as i could in the mosh about 3 rows back. Howerver the Oz NO crowd was a happy good natured crownd, and as far as i could tell there was no crushing or stupidity going on.

Ronald Kirsch wrote: don't know in 1987 i got crushed against the stage a few times. being a big fellow i could tale it. that's what happened in the olden days before they seperated the bands from the crowds. In 2002 i got as colse to them as i could in the mosh about 3 rows back. Howerver the Oz NO crowd was a happy good natured crownd, and as far as i could tell there was no crushing or stupidity going on.

Not forgetting the heat, at the Horden gig it must have been 40+ deg C at the front.

I remember moshing it at the two Brixton gigs in 83.

NO Regret wrote: Has Barney or Hooky ever in their career, dived into the crowd?

I know theyve interacted with the crowd in other ways (ignored, insulted, exchanged punches).:D

There was a crowd surfer at Oakland this year.

Murv wrote:

Ronald Kirsch wrote: don't know in 1987 i got crushed against the stage a few times. being a big fellow i could tale it. that's what happened in the olden days before they seperated the bands from the crowds. In 2002 i got as colse to them as i could in the mosh about 3 rows back. Howerver the Oz NO crowd was a happy good natured crownd, and as far as i could tell there was no crushing or stupidity going on.

Not forgetting the heat, at the Horden gig it must have been 40+ deg C at the front.

yeh I was drenched in sweat. I think I remember Barney saying something about turing the aircon on. luckily i remembered to pack a change of clothes.

The drizzle outside afterwards was most welcome.

idiot dancing?! It's good fun! Like you have space to dance in a crowd like that anyway.. it's just what happens.

DaveyMcDave wrote: idiot dancing?! It's good fun! Like you have space to dance in a crowd like that anyway.. it's just what happens.

yeah it is fun.when i say 'idiot' i don't mean it in a way that implies the people are idiots .i enjoy it !!.i jst get fed up of calling it moshing.there have been a few suggestions elsewhere of what name describes it best.