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todays nme (forget what those londoners say - its out on weds) has an articel in the news section that new order are to do a soundtrack for "Control"
there is a tiny interview in which they discuss possibly recording new material & stating that the film will have mini videos for each song as part of the film.
also says that they are considering playing jd only sets live & have discussed it with moby & billy corgan.
interesting news.
when the heck are they going to finally do a JD dvd set. a double dvd should just about do it, film clips, tv apperances, hatym etc. i don' care to much about the quality of the film stock, except it would have to be better than the stuff i have.
hibster wrote:
also says that they are considering playing jd only sets live & have discussed it with moby & billy corgan.
Barney, Hooky and Steve fronted by Moby / Billy Corgan doing some JD gigs?
Stand back and watch the flames...
:\pimp3:
First NO, THEn JD..THEN warsaw.....and finally we will end up with barney and Hooky crying the their prams.
JD is over, however good. Fucking record company must have found a market for it.
Refuse to believe to be honest. Moby or corgan "playin" Ian....get them to dress up right and dance funny no one will ever know?????????? what? too daft to think about
it also said they played "practically" a full set of jd stuff "some time last month" for the john peel day.
well researched eh?
hibster wrote: it also said they played "practically" a full set of jd stuff "some time last month" for the john peel day.
Ruined by a bunch of redneck arseholes shouting NUUORDAAHH no doubt. 
talking of a new joy division-album, does anyone know what this is supposed to be? "Let The Movie Begin"?
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Sorry to sound like a miserable cunt, but this all sounds rubbish.
Why do people always associate the word "realistic" with the word "miserable"? 
I find masel in total agreemenet with Dave fer once.
I'd love to see more reworkings a la 98 
Moby's take of NDF is the dogs bollocks, but I'd much rather hear Neworder do Joy Division than anyone else.
They've already done live versions of
Atmosphere She's Lost Control Isolation Heart & Soul Transmission Digital Shadowplay New Dawn Fades (wi Moby) Warsaw LWTUA Decades
Studio versions of these alone would be a fucking magic album. Doubt we'll ever see it though :(
Just because Moby Dink and Billy Corgan aka Humpty Dumpty are Joy Division fans, doesnt mean they don't suck bawlz. I wish New Order would stop going to them for this kind of stuff. Corgan and Moby should put their baldness together so they can generate solar energy, or protect the sea monkeys, or promote eating acorns or something. Anything so long as I can't hear them/have to listen to them.
Jackson Withrow wrote: Just because Moby Dink and Billy Corgan aka Humpty Dumpty are Joy Division fans, doesnt mean they don't suck bawlz. I wish New Order would stop going to them for this kind of stuff. Corgan and Moby should put their baldness together so they can generate solar energy, or protect the sea monkeys, or promote eating acorns or something. Anything so long as I can't hear them/have to listen to them.
Yes, thank you! I second that!
Though, I like Moby, I have most of his albums.. it's just 
I'm tired of collaborations and covers. It was great for NDF, but, really, time to pack that side of himself in.
As long as they are talking to all these hip musicians, maybe they oughta grab Jack White, too, and see what he thinks.
Look it's a silly idea. that's all there is to it.
What is this stupid obsession with JD material about anyway? It's great, but listen to the records because....basic fact time here folks....without Ian...it's not as good!
BTW msh...I think there's a gig for you over on the NOOLettes thread
hibster wrote: todays nme (forget what those londoners say - its out on weds) has an articel in the news section that new order are to do a soundtrack for "Control"
there is a tiny interview in which they discuss possibly recording new material & stating that the film will have mini videos for each song as part of the film.
also says that they are considering playing jd only sets live & have discussed it with moby & billy corgan.
If they do that, we can say goodbye to the "2006 album"... :(
It will be part of this.
From BBC 6music website
Joy Division comeback New Order plan return to their roots for biopic 14 Dec 05 - New Order have revealed they are working on songs for the film about their late Joy Division bandmate Ian Curtis.
Control is based on Touching From a Distance, the book by Curtis's widow Deborah. Casting for the role of Curtis - who committed suicided in 1980 - will take place in the spring.
The film is being made by director and rock photographer Anton Corbijn, who has worked with U2 and Depeche Mode.
Peter Hook told NME they wanted to record new songs for the film as Joy Division.
He said: "We were asked to do the soundtrack to the film, which I thought was a f***ing great idea - for Joy Division to do the music for a Joy Division film - because we've never really done a soundtrack before.
"We've never done a soundtrack before"
Peter Hook
"It may include new stuff. Anton wants to use songs by Joy Division so that each song becomes a video. Like the way the Atmosphere video was filmed, he wants to write videos that appear in the film."
The Manchester band are also considering playing all Joy Division sets at future gigs.They played such a set at the October tribute concert for John Peel in London, including a rare outing for Warsaw.
Hook said: "We have actually talked about doing Joy Division sets and gigs, but we haven't found our footing yet."
Andre Paine
msh wrote:
Jackson Withrow wrote: Just because Moby Dink and Billy Corgan aka Humpty Dumpty are Joy Division fans, doesnt mean they don't suck bawlz. I wish New Order would stop going to them for this kind of stuff. Corgan and Moby should put their baldness together so they can generate solar energy, or protect the sea monkeys, or promote eating acorns or something. Anything so long as I can't hear them/have to listen to them.
Though, I like Moby, I have most of his albums.. it's just
As long as they are talking to all these hip musicians, maybe they oughta grab Jack White, too, and see what he thinks.
I grant that Moby does have some pretty cool stuff in his catologue and I'm sure a Smashing Pumpkins reunion will be...smashing but New Order doesn't need them drooling over good tracks that do not require additional artists in the first place. Sanctimonious assholes...
Chemical Bros. are usually great for New Order and there was some April Fool's joke about John Frusciante joining New Order but after hearing his album "A Sphere in the Heart of Darkness" (specifically the track The Afterglow) he might be a really interesting flavour in working together. Jack White? Perhaps.
Keep that bugger White away from NO. Most overrated guitarist/songwriter of the decade. He's a such a pretentious prick, re-writing the same songs over and over again and getting excessive accolades for adding marimba to a couple of tracks. BOLLOCKS!
JV wrote: Keep that bugger White away from NO. Most overrated guitarist/songwriter of the decade. He's a such a pretentious prick, re-writing the same songs over and over again and getting excessive accolades for adding marimba to a couple of tracks. BOLLOCKS!
That would be my qualm against him is that he pulls that "rock music today sucks, except for us, we make REAL rock" speech. He has some unique talents though if you look past the over hype.
okay this is really stupid, there is no more Joy Division, if New Order want to Re-Record some of the songs for an EP i think thats interesting but new Joy Division Material? isnt this what they Didnt want to do when they Decided to carry on, and when they Refused to play JD Songs? all of a sudden they want to re-form Joy Division? its Bullshit to make money off of the Indie kids who are obssessed with Joy Division. so who will write the lyrics? Barney? or will they let mobey & Billy Corgan write them, its pathetic
Maybe for soundtrack music, they mean just music, no vocals for the Control film? They've recorded soundtrack music with no vocals before haven't they? I'm thinking.. Salvation, various TV shows, etc.
I'd be ok with that.. if they recorded Joy Division like music for the movie. It would be sacriligous to have anyone else front the band and they record as Joy Division.. even Bernard in my opinion. Kind of like the 20th century Doors.. heh.. or worse yet, they could do a 'reality' TV show and have contestants vie for the lead singer role. 
Don't have a problem with them doing the soundtrack - fair enough - but JD only sets? A 'mini video' for each song in the movie?
Ugh. Talk about painting a vulgar picture. Looking forward to the tie-in DVD of Herzog's flick with special new voiceover commentary ("this is where we think Ian started to tie the noose"), authentic replica washing lines ("they're multi-purpose and stronger than you'd think!") and "He died for you!" t-shirts. Oh, and especially "Reissue! Repackage! The Very, Very, Very Best of Ian Curtis (and Joy Division). For the Last Time. No, Honest Guv!".
Suck my balls.
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Don't have a problem with them doing the soundtrack - fair enough - but JD only sets? A 'mini video' for each song in the movie?
Ugh. Talk about painting a vulgar picture. Looking forward to the tie-in DVD of Herzog's flick with special new voiceover commentary ("this is where we think Ian started to tie the noose"), authentic replica washing lines ("they're multi-purpose and stronger than you'd think!") and "He died for you!" t-shirts. Oh, and especially "Reissue! Repackage! The Very, Very, Very Best of Ian Curtis (and Joy Division). For the Last Time. No, Honest Guv!".
Suck my balls.
Dr sir, speaking as a foaming, ranting maniac of many years experience, I wish to complement you on a truly fine use of truth obviation by hyperbolic exrapolation, truly a master work and a pleasure to read.
And of course, absolutely correct in it's warload.
C'mon! let's see what happens. There's no doubt "it's just not the same" but something great could come out of this. I realise few if anyone will agree.
Re-recording as "Joy Division" seems more than a bit disingenuous, more of a marketing ploy. I like the idea of them recording the soundtrack to the movie (better than Robert Smith doing it, as he's been allegedly making film music lately). Still, playing longer Joy Division-only live sets seems like a lame idea...unless they plan on bringing some other ones back that'll really stir people up (cough...Decades). To my count, they've played about 15 JD songs before, so that's a set's worth for sure. Hard to say.
What I observe as the attraction to Joy Division for younger or new fans is the gloom and murky obscurity. I hope they don't take that away
I can't think of anything WORSE than this prospect of New Order now attempting to resurrect themselves as Joy Division to record "new" songs for the biopic soundtrack. This sounds like complete artistic sacrilege. I mean, come the fuck on...JOY DIVISION were the three of them AND IAN. Without IAN they became New Order. End of.
Maybe Hooky, Barney and co are so senile now they haven't realised that all this is sounding parrticularly heinous. Why can't they just leave things be? I mean, they now look in danger of milking their own legacy for all it's worth and the end product will only be a complete disappointment anyway......for gods sakes....someone should tell them to stop it now before it's too late. Re-recording onld JD songs is all right but...to write new ones...!!.....THEY MUST BE OUT OF THEIR MINDS!!!
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Don't have a problem with them doing the soundtrack - fair enough - but JD only sets? A 'mini video' for each song in the movie?
Ugh. Talk about painting a vulgar picture. Looking forward to the tie-in DVD of Herzog's flick with special new voiceover commentary ("this is where we think Ian started to tie the noose"), authentic replica washing lines ("they're multi-purpose and stronger than you'd think!") and "He died for you!" t-shirts. Oh, and especially "Reissue! Repackage! The Very, Very, Very Best of Ian Curtis (and Joy Division). For the Last Time. No, Honest Guv!".
Suck my balls.
look i loved joy division,i was there at the time they was awsome. but even i am starting to feel the ho hum factor creeping in. if i have to see hooky going glassy eyed and bleeting on about ian curtis ect one more time at an award ceremony i will fucking kick the telly in. this is a huge HUGE mistake,what about NEW ORDER?? the band we have grown to love n adore over the years,do they really have such a low opinion of their own talent or is it sheer audacity to revert back to their old selves at this point albeit for "one more time". jd died with ian and let joy division rest in peace,by all means do the sound track but dont forget who you are NEW ORDER
Yeah - Barney and Hooky seem to have completely lost touch of reality - not to mention dignity - so why not let them pull out all the stops and piss on their credibility by reforming Joy Division but with loads of guest singers all lining up to grovel at the altar of the late great Mr C.
Just imagine! A huge supergroup consisting of Peter, Bernard and Stephen (but not Phil) and featuring a revolving door stellar cast of rock and pop legends all taking their turn to say "Tonight Hooky, I'm Going To Be...... Ian Curtis!!"....
Billy Corgan Moby Ian McCulloch Ian Broudie Jim Kerr Bono David Bowie Paul Young Will Young Robbie Williams Shaun Ryder Shane MacGowan George Michael Robert Smith Martin L Gore Steven Tyler Axl Rose Bryan Adams Ryan Adams Jack White Eminem Coolio 50 Cent Mos Def Grandmaster Flash Wyclef Jean Moe Tucker John Cale Peter Gabriel Simon Topping (if he could still be arsed) Bob Dylan Anthony Kiedis Frank Black Gibby Haynes Elton John Annie Lennox Sting Rivers Cuomo Billy Joe Armstrong Trent Reznor Marilyn Manson Morrissey Marc Almond Peter Kay Steve Coogan Johnny Vegas Christopher Eccleston Ricky Tomlinson Ralf Little Russ Abbott Bernard Manning Keith Harris and Orville Richard Madeley
The list is endless....
whooo hoo!! FANTASTICO!!!!
If that ever happened, Eck, I might have to hang myself. Talk about an unholy gathering of musicians.
Man there's no way they'd let some of those cunts play with them it'd be sad and embarrassing for all concerned, get a dose of reality, I mean, honestly...Bono? WTF?
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Fuck, yeah! I did didn't I??
And whose that guy from The Bravery?? :D
Dane Bowers on smack
Joy Idol wannabe chav teans enter a competition where they sing pete waterman re-arrangements of JD classics; the final winner, decided as ever on the national mean panty moisture index value recorded for each talentless little animated crashtest dummy....gets to tour with the lads
judges will be Jordan the slut who's only famouns for not liking jordan Mr and Mrs Beckham and rebecca toilets
I wouldn't mind Ian McCulloch guesting live, maybe for a one-off.
Look, I think folks are getting really f'n' worried about this and the interview itself reads mostly like speculation. If any more Joy Division tracks are to be done live, I'd be surprised if Hooky didn't take the lead vocal. As far as the soundtrack, instrumentals and re-recordings seem like the most realistic thing to expect. Maybe some music as New Order that goes back to the roots so to speak. Some of you are cringeing, but I'm going to withold further judgement for the moment.
My Joy Division/New Order brothers..... Yes..do some new tunes for Ian's biopic. And we love it when you pull some Joy Division numbers out these days...but...Joy Division is gone without Ian. --Your friend-Justin Beck
PS--Hooky..listen to the CD I gave you at the Brighton DJ gig from last new years man...it's cool. And thanks for the free pizza snacks. See...that's a good band.
It would be pretty jarring to have NO doing the background music for a JD film to be completely honest.
Ian and Annik in a dramatic, sepia-toned Corbijin-ized flagrante delicto scene- "Waaaaaalk in siiiiileeeenceee HEY!"
what are they really implying? having guest vocalists record new songs, with whose lyrics, with the 3 guys and calling it "Joy Division"...? hopefully not, cause this sounds pathetic and probably awful, throwing 25 years of integrity away and pissing on it.
... or are they just planning to make instrumental tracks for the soundtrack of the movie? that doesnt sound so bad, at least they could give it a try. they deserve an opportunity, but how do they capture the production style of Martin after 25 years?.
...or Bernard writing new Joy Division tracks with his lyrics... i don't know if that is a good idea at all...
Sounds like a great project although hard to top 24 HR Party People!! Maybe..guys you could dig into some of Ian's old lyrics and mix them with your own for a new tune..and give him some credit. Then you could listen to my band's CD I gave you in Brighton last new years. And then...is this out of the rules here...there's the girl from Texas writing here...hey..I'm in California. Have a boyfriend? "If you don't try..how will you know?" right Barney? VH1 still stinks. -J.Beck
Let's make it this way, if they use their Joy Division name to record the soundtrack of Control, I think it's a kind of homage to Ian.
But will Phil be part of it? :p
As far as I'm concerned, they could name themselves the Spice Boys and I would still buy their records... so, who cares.
Think of it this way though, if they DO record as Joy Division, it also means Debbie & Nathalie Curtis will get their share of the rights probably, another thing to help everything.
Anyways, the more I think of it, the more I actually like the idea... would be nice to see something new in the Joy Division department ;)
The only problem I see with this is working on the follow-up of WFTSC and doing the soundtrack... I know we're used to delays with New Order, but if this is planned well, we'll have one album in 2006 and one in 2007... it's hard to imagine New Order doing 3 albums in 3 years, isn't it?
Wasn't the "Joy Division-without-Ian" album called Movement? I find it kind of ludicrous that they should try to record as Joy Division. First off, have they ever listened to themselves as New Order, post 1998, playing Joy Division? They sound like a cover band. Joy Division without Ian is New Order. And New Order does New Order well, not Joy Division.
why would they want to record as JD. JD is JD. for mine they play more than enough JD at their gigs anyway. more New Order please.
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Don't have a problem with them doing the soundtrack - fair enough - but JD only sets? A 'mini video' for each song in the movie?
Ugh. Talk about painting a vulgar picture. Looking forward to the tie-in DVD of Herzog's flick with special new voiceover commentary ("this is where we think Ian started to tie the noose"), authentic replica washing lines ("they're multi-purpose and stronger than you'd think!") and "He died for you!" t-shirts. Oh, and especially "Reissue! Repackage! The Very, Very, Very Best of Ian Curtis (and Joy Division). For the Last Time. No, Honest Guv!".
Suck my balls.
Joy Division Movie....New Joy Division songs...whatta load of rubbish!!
I hope "our boys" do not smell the pound notes/dollar bills in a runup to a Curtis biopic. They may just do some overdubs and other stuff like they "Still" after Curtis's demise. I figure there is enough soundtrack material out there already for a movie.
Ian's dead and wish the fuck that they would not pick his bones (ashes) over for marketing purpose. He died broke, marriage broken, health in decline and there was little to romanticize in it. He failed in life and in health but left some of the greatest most haunting music every put to vinyl. His family and heirs saw little or any money after the Factory collapse after his efforts at writng songs. It has only been in the last ten years that the remaining trio (and later quartet/quintet with the new guy) that only think Barney, Hooky and Steve have been able to make some money, with age comes a certain amount of wisdom and maturity.
Last thing I would want to see is a pretending c*unt like Moby or Bongo to go make another pile off of Ian's bones.
Whole thing starts to smell like a Beatles franchise for the 21st century. 
c'mon Greg, get off the fence.
seriously - that's a pretty passionate post. good work & welcome to the forum
what vitriolic diatribes! may I humbly suggest that if/when anything emerges, it will be appropriate: trust them. and we all know jd did cease to exist. that cannot be brought back. whatever they produce will be no by definition.
They have and always will have every right to do with "Joy Division" as they please.
Let's not make this like Star Wars fanboys do trying to dictate to Lucas about what he cannot do with the movies he's already made. That overzealous fandom is just sad---pathetic.
I think this subject is totally personal to New Order and to them only - let them decide what's best to do with Joy Division now and in the future as they've always done.
E
Steve Lea wrote: Just a side question - what did Natalie Curtis do with her life??
Photographer.
Why not get the singer of that band 'Editors' doing some JD tracks with Barney, Stven and Hooky?? now that would look for real.....at least to me it would, i think
Joy Division Oven Gloves will be a reality by Christmas 2006. On sale at Habitat. Mark my words.
"Cook, cook, cook, cook, cook to the radio."
I think we have to trust that they'll do something interesting if it's as JD, but I can't fathom it though. For years they claimed the music would have been the same if Ian had lived or died, just his death accelerated their change from punk to dance. This kinda makes it seems like that was BS. Maybe it'll be new recordings of JD tracks with Ian's vocals laid over - didn't the LWTUA (permanent mix) on Permanent feature a new recording of the music with Ian's vocals?
I think it'd be much more interesting if they just stayed as New Order and did music for the movie. Or if they call themselves Joy Division and play only songs from Technique.
It's a pity that they don't seem to realise that with the honourable exception of Transmission, most of the JD songs they do sound shit because they have lost the intensity of the performance. Shadowplay and Digital were frankly embarrassing, they contained none of the menace and panic of the originals (either live or on record), and became plod-alongs. Shadowplay should sound malevolent, like the glint of a switchblade in a dark alley. Digital should sound like the musical equivalent of a panic attack. They don't the way NO play them!
Shakin' Baker wrote: Maybe it'll be new recordings of JD tracks with Ian's vocals laid over - didn't the LWTUA (permanent mix) on Permanent feature a new recording of the music with Ian's vocals?
The Permenant mix is a cleaned up version of the original with a new acoustic guitar line mixed in. The guitar was done by Don Gehman who did is a Country producer if I remember correctly so New Order themselves weren't involved in that. It was 1995 so they were still in the middle of their post-Republic "we all hate each other" hiatus. Oh I see the story's on NME.com now, dunno if it's already been linked here:
NME.COM - News - Joy Division to record new material:
As for this whole "we want record as Joy Division" again I think it's absurd. It's a bit worrying but New Order strike me as a band in full on nostalgia mode at the moment, every interview I read there's more looking to the past than there is looking ahead. There's no excitement of "we've just wrote this really fucking good new tune and we can't wait to get it out" it's just 'Yeah! Let's do Atmosphere for the 500th time'. The Joy Division material is incredible but New Order doing JD only sets would be a horrible step backwards... the past is past etc.
oldmonkey wrote: It's a pity that they don't seem to realise that with the honourable exception of Transmission, most of the JD songs they do sound shit because they have lost the intensity of the performance.
Completely agree, Transmission is about the only one I feel they can still deliver with an air of excitment about it. The 5 11 version of Digital is beyond embarrassing. Fair enough they're having a good time but do they have to murder a JD classic in the process??
I think part of the problem is Martin Hannett's stark production made alot of the Joy Division songs what they were and that's obviously missing from the live arena, as well as (obviously) Ian. I don't think New Order's strong points are the JD numbers, soundwise they often just collapse in on themselves resulting in a wall of distorted guitars and Barney's vocals struggling to remain audible.
Having said that, I do really like Heart & Soul from Reading '98!
oldmonkey wrote: It's a pity that they don't seem to realise that with the honourable exception of Transmission, most of the JD songs they do sound shit because they have lost the intensity of the performance. Shadowplay and Digital were frankly embarrassing, they contained none of the menace and panic of the originals (either live or on record), and became plod-alongs. Shadowplay should sound malevolent, like the glint of a switchblade in a dark alley. Digital should sound like the musical equivalent of a panic attack. They don't the way NO play them!
I guess that's why somebody was talking about Moby or Billy Corgan somewhere.
It's true that Bernard isn't the best singer for those tunes (even Transmission), not saying Moby would be better, but it's an upgrade though.. many people don't like his version of New Dawn Fades, I do...
They could also ask Trent Reznor.. I believe THAT would work. (Dead Souls was quite good)
Plus, they already have a link somehow... Reznor is the owner of OBJECT MERCH, our supplier of t-shirts and New Order's official merchandizing company in North America. :p
I just realized something... they can't use Bernard to sing on those if they re-record the tracks for the movie though, they have to find a singer to "impersonate" Ian, as the actor won't probably be able to do it.
I don't remember how they did it in 24HPP, did they use the old recordings?
Anyways, using "Joy Division" as a name for the soundtrack (and only for it) in my book is just an homage to Ian... as long as they don't use it again afterwards.
Yeah,Barnsters versions of the jd classics are a bit pantsy to say the least. He just hasn't got the right voice or agressiveness to pull off the jd songs. Although sometimes when he has sung lwtua it hasn't been bad. I cant see it happening personally,for me it would be like eating a chocolate with the wrapper on!
Spotnick wrote:
oldmonkey wrote: It's a pity that they don't seem to realise that with the honourable exception of Transmission, most of the JD songs they do sound shit because they have lost the intensity of the performance. Shadowplay and Digital were frankly embarrassing, they contained none of the menace and panic of the originals (either live or on record), and became plod-alongs. Shadowplay should sound malevolent, like the glint of a switchblade in a dark alley. Digital should sound like the musical equivalent of a panic attack. They don't the way NO play them!
I guess that's why somebody was talking about Moby or Billy Corgan somewhere.
It's true that Bernard isn't the best singer for those tunes (even Transmission), not saying Moby would be better, but it's an upgrade though.. many people don't like his version of New Dawn Fades, I do...
They could also ask Trent Reznor.. I believe THAT would work. (Dead Souls was quite good)
Plus, they already have a link somehow... Reznor is the owner of OBJECT MERCH, our supplier of t-shirts and New Order's official merchandizing company in North America. :p
Fook all this - they should ask me to do it!
It reminds me, when the Beatles did "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love", John Lennon was dead, it's pretty much the same timing for this.
Are there any demos of Ian that can be used to "finish one" ? or were they only Ceremony and In A Lonely Place 
Peel's 40th, Peel 98 & Reading 98 are just three examples.
Transmission, Heart & Soul and Isolation were brilliant versions, Atmosphere was brilliant at Reading 98 as well and they've done some good versions of LWTUA.
When they are enjoying themselves too much on stage, that's when we get the "Come On" and whoops or they don't sound as intense. Get neworder in the studio doing these versions and they will be fuckin ace
This is the worst idea since the Doors Of The 21st Century And That Twat From The Cult.
the only way they can resurrect Joy Division is to exhume agrave in Macclesfield and feed it Class A's.
If they want to be Joy Division they shouldn't have changed the name in June 1980. If they want to record instrumentals as Joy Divison, MTO is about the weirdest JD song ever.
They play too many JD songs as it is. They are NOT and NEVER will be Joy Division. It's a crass, commercially-exploitative idea and should be binned on sight. JD ended 18 May 1980, and they should stay there. Much as I would've loved them to carry on, it was a medical impossibility for them to continue much longer even if Ian had lived. They should just leave it alone.
After all, if they do continue to perform JD songs, its not to long before they do "LOVE WILL YEAH!!! COME ON!!! TEAR US APART!! YEAH!". Oh hang on. They already did. I cringe now that they drag out a JD song every twenty minutes, because it's like seeing a tribute band.
I liked it when occasionally, maybe one show in twenty they played one JD song, and it knocked everyone's socks off. These days, it's retro-karaoke. For gods sake boys, if you want dignity and artistic credibility and don't end up like the Rolling Bloody Stones, stop pretending to be 18 for the 28th year in a row.
trent reznor would be great
i love NIN
especially "hurt" that is an amazing track, and "the hand that feeds" is awesome. check those 2 out if u havent already!!
No scoop then Jack? :)
I love NIN, and trent's a big JD/NO head. But....gotta say mate, personally, I don't much care for the entire idea. Will of course have true faith and wait and see. It does feel sort of....crap I can't find the word tainting....sullying...no....I for once can't find the right word and don't want to use the wrong one. Promise not to got psycho if it all tuens out sucky. :D
BTW, "fanmail" thread....things that if printed out and handed out could be awesome weapons....all I'm saying mate ;)
Your dad, Jack, could rip ol' Barn a new one with the proof there's these women (classy women, ) pining with energy for him.
Unless that is Bernard would just be totally chuffed that he's got himself a harem. In which case, the joke would all be on us.
I'm trying hard to like this idea but it's not happening. What seperated NO from JD was Ian - now he's gone, they shouldn't try and write JD type stuff.
Who would write lyrics like he did? JD just had that tone which I don't think middle aged well off men with happy families and wives could write. The tone of JD came from an era in their lives that they have moved on from now with a completley different style of music - they said that JD ended when Ian dies and so it should.
However, they are going to do it and I prepare to stand corrected if they do it well. You never know, they could be harnessing something from their youth in there somewhere that's dying to get out. We'll have to trust them.
I agree that the live JD songs nowadays are unsensational. LWTUA has lost its poignant meaning live and I try to avoid it.
msh wrote: Your dad, Jack, could rip ol' Barn a new one with the proof there's these women (classy women,
Unless that is Bernard would just be totally chuffed that he's got himself a harem.
yup...there is evidence enough on that thread to give Hooky the equivalent of the H-bomb to wind Bernard out of his skull.
I realise of course that, this would be utterly out of character for him, as he's always so pleasant respectful towards and about his dear chum.
Jack just read this crazy chick's rewrite of All the way (ignore "booze vigilantes"), and tell me that's not a loaded gun. Maybe you want to keep this material and take a chunk outta BS yourself of course :D
well im on NOOL and WIM a lot, and he sometimes comes in my room and has a look at some threads
so he'll probably see for himself when i go to his on saturday i would have thought
Jack_H wrote: he sometimes comes in my room and has a look at some threads
Aw crap :D
I didn't need to hear that
Ok, people, lets get deleting. I dont know about you but I don't Mr Hook offside. Edit posts with fine tooth comb (particularly a certain one about Mr Whoop that many ladies responded to, wink wink) and lets make sure no one is offended. Off you go.
Just kidding (although on second thought that might not be a bad idea.)
neworder, we are not worthy
By the way, nice to see you round here. Hang about, we teenagers (I assume you are a teenager) are outnumbered drastically here.
I get the distinct impression he didn't mean... "I'm off to bed now it's too late for me to be up" but rather "I'm off to bed and you're too late mofo's MUUUUUUHAHAHAHAHA"
well, we're boned.
NOOLers standing at the back from now on.
/me tears brain apart thinking of last time I said anything nasty about Hooky, probably never, but if's all defensive over his old bud the Barnster...i've back on webcasts again for the next gigs.
Too late now!Steve and Gillian are going round there as well
and they are bringing the Panzas!
mil wrote: By the way, nice to see you round here. Hang about, we teenagers (I assume you are a teenager) are outnumbered drastically here.
Tis all farts of the ancient type like I...in fact i'm a spring chicken. Wonderful leveler the internet....unless you bother to look you just sort of assume everyone's sort of some random age not far from yours and stuff like that. You can get taken seriously online when you;re young when adults in the RW are just not interested (this is of course based on observation....but I bet that daft bint msh was online when it was still all military :D ). And on a website like this, no one will treat you any different be you young, old, crumbling, or insane (hi). They just talk to you like you're another NO head, they do stuf for you without a written CV (resume). It's like an implied referrence from mother nature that you carry with you that we all understand.....Into New Order means, no matter how objectionable or strange someone may seem, they can't be a total dickhead cos they get NO. I can't remember the last time I seen anyone really objectionable other than lacy's first appearance, but we're all mates now. Gotta love the place, gotta love NO :D
Boatraceface wrote: Too late now!Steve and Gillian are going round there as well
actually....Johnny's up for that lynching.
Personally I honestly wouldn't give a fuck if hooky came to the conclusion I was a raving mental case (the rest of you have), s long as he had a laugh. Always trying to give back :D
A couple thoughts:
New order... a dual identity band due to mid-life crises? Barney is hitting 50 soon. 
The same way we've accepted New Order without Gillian, could we accept Joy Division w/o Curtis?
More seriously, I see the new JD tracks (hopefully vocal-less) to be an homage as well.. and it wouldn't be 'wrong' per say to record under JD with the 3 remaining members only. The music could be making a statement as to how JD would sound today less Curtis.. you'd feel his presence/contribution missing for sure and that could speak volumes. But that's my own idea of what the artistic goal is.. who knows what they're actually thinking... as far as cashing in on the JD name? For so many years, they have not cashed in.. why the fook not?
:rip: We'll have it inscribed on your tomb,after New Order have ripped you a new one.."always giving it ...."
Edit:Meant for Cambo:D
nmc wrote: A couple thoughts:
New order... a dual identity band due to mid-life crises? Barney is hitting 50 soon.
The same way we've accepted New Order without Gillian, could we accept Joy Division w/o Curtis?
More seriously, I see the new JD tracks (hopefully vocal-less) to be an homage as well.. and it wouldn't be 'wrong' per say to record under JD with the 3 remaining members only. The music could be making a statement as to how JD would sound today less Curtis.. you'd feel his presence/contribution missing for sure and that could speak volumes. But that's my own idea of what the artistic goal is.. who knows what they're actually thinking... as far as cashing in on the JD name? For so many years, they have not cashed in.. why the fook not?
I still feel icky about it. But I'd rather wait and see what's hapening out in the real world before going off on one. What would I ask New Order to do if i were making a movie or whatever regarding JD......the exixting JD catalogue (totally new material?? that's just calling a Rover an MG, or marathons, snickers...it's be rebranded New Order, because the JD writing unit included Ian), produced beatifully, gently repsectfully, like a softer Hannet sound (except where required to be loud and up front of course if we ARE talking soundtrack), and with Ian's vocal being taken not by another person but by a second track of Hooky's bass or bernard's guitar, or a synth. I think their original reasoning of not wanting to have someone fill Ian's shoes is still valid.
As for cashing in, I've ranted and raved enough about their stage ethics today compared to the halcyon days of being fooking great and not getting paid all that well. But you wont hear me begrudge them it. They're playing out their tunes, keeping tossers like me happy (I mean..Mr 20 year+ fan sees them last month for the 1st time), some of them are having a right good time, and new people are always finding them....AND they are finally getting the pop star equations right...more money than work.....after SO long of more work than money, we'd be right and miserable to begrudge would we not. But cashing in on JD....mmmmmmhhhmmm that's back into unclean territory. maybe I'm being a precious fantard I dunno.
Anyway, whatever they do it's got dick to do with us, it's their music, and as long as it IS their decision, we gotta respect it. Mind you if it sucks balls i will scream "that sucks balls" as is my way :D Then back down 2 days later and say "wellllll it's OKaaaaaaay" as is also my way.
cozmonite61 wrote: Is it just me, or has mid-life crisis taken its toll on NO's common sense?
Their WHAT?
You have the wrong band.
Steve Campbell wrote:
Personally I honestly wouldn't give a fuck if hooky came to the conclusion I was a raving mental case (the rest of you have), s long as he had a laugh. Always trying to give back :D
What, did you read my mind?
I'll say it for him:
"She's a nutter, but the kind of nutter you like hanging around, because she's funny and can hold her drink."
After all the years of class laughs they've given us at gigs and interviews, we gotta repay the debt somehow.
true...more likely this place will find itself on the wrong side of the parental controls on JH's machine fairly fast...."jack they are fookin nutters mate avoid!"
Just thinking...if Italk ENOUGH bollox....i could get the gig writing PH's biography. call it "Hooky: how I managed not to strangle Bernard for 30 years"
If you don't get the gig handed to you on faith, you'll just have to make it the "unauthorized version".
Jack_H wrote: i dont understand about the fanmail thread
I think he means the thread that is called that way, about mostly how people can contact the band.
Obviously they don't understand that even I can't do that.. well, actually I could but I won't, not sure your dad would like me to put spam in his mailbox
I'm already harassing Andy and Rebecca enough ;) Fortunatly they are very kind.
mil wrote: By the way, nice to see you round here. Hang about, we teenagers (I assume you are a teenager) are outnumbered drastically here.
Only by age, but I think the typical New Order fan is still a teenager at heart
Steve Campbell wrote: true...more likely this place will find itself on the wrong side of the parental controls on JH's machine fairly fast...."jack they are fookin nutters mate avoid!"
Just thinking...if Italk ENOUGH bollox....i could get the gig writing PH's biography. call it "Hooky: how I managed not to strangle Bernard for 30 years"
Make that 40 years... 
You only want to kill your friends after you;ve played in a bands with them.
The fanmail thread: we were pointing out to jack, the some of things said on that thread, in his dad's hands could reduced Bernard to a giggling Wreck. far be it from our place to try and give Hooky amunition, but there you go :D
Hmmmm,
Ok, the four members of Joy Division (and Martin Hannett) all contributed in creating this unique timeless music, but at the end of the day it was Ian Curtis' songwriting, stage presence and intensity that made Joy Division the band they were.
And he's dead.
Joy division were a band, not just one person.
If they want to call themselves Joy Division from time to time and do only Joy Division sets that's cool with me.
If they re-work old JD songs that's also cool by me.
I wouldn't like to see Ian replaced though, and there's no point now they've got Phil in to ease up Barney's guitar burdens.
If they decide to write some new stuff that's 'darker' and release that material under the JD name, that's also cool with me.
Basically I couldn't care less (or more) what they do; just as long as they keep keeping on!
I'll admit to mixed feelings over this, but having thought about it more, two thoughts come to mind.
First, what the remaining members of JD choose to do with their and Ian's legacy is up to them. Somewhat sad that Ian gets no choice in the manner, but at the same time, I don't see Ian as the brooding goth-myth he's been made to be. I think that if and wherever he remains, he would probably be pleased that NO has taken to playing JD songs (using the words he originally bled onto paper) to live audiences again. I am willing to reserve judgment. (although for the record, if NO records a synth-heavy dance pop version of Transmission with Robbie Williams as guest vocalist, I will never forgive them).
Second, having first heard NO when Blue Monday was released, I unfortunately missed JD the first time around. NO still has alot of what made JD special--this is not a knock on Ian (my son's named after him, for hell sakes), but I am glad that 3/4 of Joy Division is still around (and that NO got over their "we all hate each other" phase). I am excited by the prospect of the remaining members trying to add to Ian's legacy. If, for example, NO were to set some of Ian's unfinished lyrics to music, I would have no problem considering that material part of JD's legacy. If, however, all NO plans to do is take lyrical genius like "here comes love, its like Honey, you can't buy it with money", set it to bass-heavy punk influenced dark music, and call it JD's return single, it wouldn't make me like JD or NO any less, but I wouldn't be pleased.
Matt
Hey i've got a great idea!
They should dig out an old unreleased jd demo and record new music over the top of it!
Not really. That would be absolutely hideous. All this talk of 'new' JD material seems ridiculous.
New Order doing a bit of soundtrack music for a film about Joy Division however seems perfectly acceptable.
This is a very bad ideas... only with commecial purpose. JD is dead with Ian'suicide. Then NO was born. Great. They play JD songs. Normal. But "the comeback of JD" is a total non sense in an artistic way. But are they still artist or more economist? very sad...
For those asking around about Natalie Curtis...
Check her page here:
http://www.media-arts.mmu.ac.uk/photo2004/StudentPages/nataliecurtis.html
Steve C., I read your reply on the mid-life crisis comment. Personally, I don't think the band is suffering from it. I'm just showing my comical side. But what I know is that if NO is coming up with a JD album, it would be more than a deja vu we have to deal with.
Spotnick wrote: For those asking around about Natalie Curtis...
Check her page here:
http://www.media-arts.mmu.ac.uk/photo2004/StudentPages/nataliecurtis.html
I'm not dissing lady Nats she sure does like pops, but she also looks like bianca from eastenders .... riiiiiiickkkkkkyyyyy!
Sorry Nats!
now i dont like this idea and like all of you ill still buy it anyway and not just the cd the lp all the 7 inchs with crap remixes of old songs on the bside the live box set with 2 minute gaps between the songs etc
i drunkly predicated this and annoyed some people on this board with the subject NEW ORDER TO RECORD ALBUM OF JOY DIVISION SONGS and now im very sure i dont like the idea there very well me some lost recordings that havnt been bootleged but yet doubts even here (HAHA)
id this does happen and it works they will be hailed as kings if they fuck it up "COOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE OOOOOOOOOOOOON LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVE WOOP WILL WOOP US WOOO HOOOO APART" etc
i will NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THESE TWATS AGAIN
Shug wrote: I find masel in total agreemenet with Dave fer once.
I'd love to see more reworkings a la 98
Moby's take of NDF is the dogs bollocks, but I'd much rather hear Neworder do Joy Division than anyone else.
:(
But NO are JD!!!!
I find it totally bizarre. This is almost Spinal Tap-esque.
I can imagine the following conversation:
A: JD are reforming, fookin brilliant!!!!
B: Hang on, Ian Curtis is dead, who's going to do lead vocals?
A: Maybe one of the remaining band members. What about him who plays lead guitar?
B: Oh yeah the Sumner guy. But haven't they already done that?
A: Oh yeah that's right, but they call themselves New Order these days. This is Joy Division. They're performing as Joy Division!
B: Oh yeah, I can imagine the billboards. Fookin brilliant, I've waited 25 years for this day.
A: Yeah fookin amazing, reforming after all this time... etc, etc, forever...
Come on guys let's get some perspective on this. NO are JD without Ian. Ian aint coming back so NO are the nearest you'll ever get to JD. What's in a name? It's still the same band!
I think I'm sort of in the "instrumental soundtrack as JD, play as NO" camp.. I also wouldn't mind seeing a full set of NO playing JD songs, but I think if anyone's doing vocals other than Ian, it can't really be "Joy Division proper". It makes sense to me for them to provide background instrumentals for the movie though, and if there's no vocals, I don't have any problem with them calling it a "Joy Division" thing. If they get Billy or Moby to sing on something called "Joy Division" though..even though I like both of those guys, I think it would seem a bit morbid to me.
Spotnick wrote: For those asking around about Natalie Curtis...
Check her page here:
http://www.media-arts.mmu.ac.uk/photo2004/StudentPages/nataliecurtis.html
See there's a pic of her in December's Q magazine - just come out here, dont laugh - and there's quite a resemblance to her dad.
I think this is a silly pissy wanky little idea. Joy Division finished years ago and New Order aRE PRACTICALLY THE ONLY BAND DO GO ON AND DO FUCKING GREAT TRACKS WITHOUT HAVING TO SUCK blood from their past. Just think of all the great songs they could be resurrecting - Sunrise, 586, Guilty Partner, Perfect Kiss, Dreams Never End, This Time of Night, Fine Time... Who wants to hear New Order playing Joy Division when you could be hearing JOY DIVISION playing Joy Division... Or New Order playing New Order? What's next - Revenge reformimg and covering Super Highways?
PS I have an enormous desire to have sex with Melanie C. Sorry I just had to tell someone.
Sorry about what I said about NO going through a mid-life crisis with the JD album. However, I don't know how this is going to work out. For a progressive band like NO to practice regression is a stretch for me. This defies logic. NO has a 50/50 chance of making this a hit.
"Everything old comes new again." On one hand, the album may be a success. I think NO is going through some kind of epiphany. What do you guys think?
"Everything old comes new again." On one hand, the album may be a success. I think NO is going through some kind of epiphany. What do you guys think?Shrug
No...the boys are just needing the cash in small denominations of dollars and pounds. No mid-life epiphany here. Don't blame them the slightest since their 14 year ripping with Factory where their lost all their money on any new Factory hangout or scheme.
Go back to "NewOrderStory" and even in 1980's NO was living in reduced circumstances because all the profits were going into THE HAC. I think it was dawning on them then that Factory was becoming a money pit.
The boys are reaching near 50 and can you blame them to make a little money before they retire. Steve and Gilliam got kids and tanks to raise and Barney likes to go on his boat and Hooky (?? another side band). They are really after all the hype, four (now five) rather normal people who got bills to pay, high Brit taxes to shell out, and want a bit of the good life.
I am not happy the they want to reform and do new JD songs but would probably buy one if they album if they put it out preferably with Saville (late as usual with design).
Melanie C is one splendiferously gorgeous hunk of womanhood and I would auction my mother off on ebay for the chance of spending one millisecond in the same hemisphere as this dazzling, wondrously talented and downright horny miracle of creation.
Oh and no, I'm not too keen on a Joy Division reunion.
frank smarra wrote: okay this is really stupid, there is no more Joy Division, if New Order want to Re-Record some of the songs for an EP i think thats interesting but new Joy Division Material? isnt this what they Didnt want to do when they Decided to carry on, and when they Refused to play JD Songs? all of a sudden they want to re-form Joy Division? its Bullshit to make money off of the Indie kids who are obssessed with Joy Division. so who will write the lyrics? Barney? or will they let mobey & Billy Corgan write them, its pathetic
man get your facts straight the reason why new order didnt want to play JD songs in the early days is because they wanted to prove to people that they can do it on their own feet.. that they can carry on without having to depend on the legacey of joy division... to make it on their own steam... now that they have done this. fucking 25 years of outstanding progression.. they are free from the JD burden.. and is it so wrong to go back to their own MUSIC? to play it and enjoy it. without worrying about the reasons why they stopped playing it in the first place? toss me a bone here
Eric Wang wrote: They have and always will have every right to do with "Joy Division" as they please.
Let's not make this like Star Wars fanboys do trying to dictate to Lucas about what he cannot do with the movies he's already made. That overzealous fandom is just sad---pathetic.
I think this subject is totally personal to New Order and to them only - let them decide what's best to do with Joy Division now and in the future as they've always done.
E
DreamsNeverEnd wrote:
frank smarra wrote: okay this is really stupid, there is no more Joy Division, if New Order want to Re-Record some of the songs for an EP i think thats interesting but new Joy Division Material? isnt this what they Didnt want to do when they Decided to carry on, and when they Refused to play JD Songs? all of a sudden they want to re-form Joy Division? its Bullshit to make money off of the Indie kids who are obssessed with Joy Division. so who will write the lyrics? Barney? or will they let mobey & Billy Corgan write them, its pathetic
man get your facts straight the reason why new order didnt want to play JD songs in the early days is because they wanted to prove to people that they can do it on their own feet.. that they can carry on without having to depend on the legacey of joy division... to make it on their own steam... now that they have done this. fucking 25 years of outstanding progression.. they are free from the JD burden.. and is it so wrong to go back to their own MUSIC? to play it and enjoy it. without worrying about the reasons why they stopped playing it in the first place? toss me a bone here
my facts are straight, they refused to play JD songs, i dont complain that they play them now live, in fact i like that they do it, but i think making a new Joy Division Album with new material without ian curtis is not Joy Division. its not like new order without gillian(although they have not been as good without her) ian curtis was the face of JD because of his lyrics.
NO have been adding 2-3 JD songs to their sets now for a few years which at the start to them must have been like breaking a taboo.
Their Oxegen festival gig (Ireland) this year was amazing. I finally appreciated how good "She's Lost Control" was after 20 years - the studio or 12 versions never really grabbed me. They also played great versions of Love Will Tear Us Apart and Transmission (again first time live for me).
I think the band were surprised at how good the gig actually went down. They were competing against the Foo Fighters for audience and NO still drew thousands.
Along with most people, I have never heard most of the JD catalogue played in a live set. These are songs that were written to be performed live. The idea of a JD only set thus to me is the most exciting thing I've heard in years.
I am a JD fan first though. I can see if you are a NO fan then a JD only gig would look like a precious chance to hear the NO songs live gone to waste.
As for a new album as JD? What does this mean? Guitars/Synth/Drums/Bass/Vocals? Or New Order with a guest singer?
Bring it on. Those lads wont let anything substandard leave the studio anyway.
If you re-read Hooky's comments in the NME, I think they have been taken out of context. Don't think we will actually see a new album released as "Joy Division", it seems to me that he was saying it would be strange for the remaining members of Joy Division to be recording stuff for the soundtrack of a film about Joy Division (under their current guise of New Order). I'm convinced that any new soundtrack material will be released as New Order. Wouldn't be quite "right" otherwise, would it?
Andy
