What's the story with the Confederate flag on Barney's guitars?

just wondering

i really have not the foggiest. perhaps it was on it when he got it. this has come up before and a few people have expressed quite understandable negative sentiments toward it.

I'm glad this question is brought up; I was a bit surprised when I first saw it on the 511 DVD. At first, I thought my eyes were tricking and that it was the Union Jack on the guitar. I live in the South (but I don't talk or act Southern in anyway). I asked another NOOLer about this and his take was that the Confederate flag looks exotic to a British person just as the Union Jack is for an American. I don't know... I wonder how the audience would react if NO performed in the South. However, I don't know if there are enough Southerners who can understand their music.

White southerners generally don't have a problem with the confederate flag. Black Americans do. Many white Americans outside of the south do. It's symbolic of the south's war to preserve slavery, and it's extremely offensive to Americans who are offended by America's history of slavery.

Aside from the racial controversy that the flag presents, I'm offended because now a united country; why do we need a flag that glorifies secession that occurred over a century ago?

That flag is all over the US. 13,000 from my State died to preserve the Union yet that flag rears itself here.

while most rural/ country types (always white people without a doubt thou) who have the Confederate flag on their car (usually a pickup truck, not that rare to be honest) may not think they are being pro-slavery, many "liberals" and blacks definitely think that the flag shows respect to a culture that was pro-slavery and pro-segregation, without irony... and most blacks do not find it to be funny or okay whatsoever, just stupid, which is very easy to understand

maybe not a perfect analogy, but sort of like Germans glorifing the Nazi flag and symbols, being proud of the military aggression and nationalism but pretending that the concentration camps had nothing to do with the other stuff

Good analogy.

Comrade Shampanyov wrote: Good analogy.

there's just one thing worng with that analogy. nazi regelia, especially the swastika are actually outlawed in germany. that is the reason why neo nazis in germany wave the old imperial flag instead.

C'mon dont you all Know that Barney is a huge Dukes of Hazzard fan?

Ronald Kirsch wrote: i really have not the foggiest. perhaps it was on it when he got it. this has come up before and a few people have expressed quite understandable negative sentiments toward it.

yeah, superglued on by Hooky for a laff.

C'mon dont you all Know that Barney is a huge Dukes of Hazzard fan?

Are you serious about this, Frank?

cozmonite61 wrote:

C'mon dont you all Know that Barney is a huge Dukes of Hazzard fan?

Are you serious about this, Frank?

Dontcha love NOOL!

Edit: Perhaps you're right Frank - wasn't Boss Hog's dog called Barney?

cozmonite61 wrote: Aside from the racial controversy that the flag presents, I'm offended because now a united country; why do we need a flag that glorifies secession that occurred over a century ago?

They're still bitter they lost the war.

Still, the South needs to go on. In my opinion, the flag should be in a museum instead of flying outside of courthouses.

Yes, I'm still surprised with the Barney-Dukes of Hazzard connection. Boss Hog has a dog named Barney? What will come next? I am in the Twilight Zone... (currently singing the theme song)

there seems to be some text also on the sticker underneath the flag on Barney's red Gibson SG. it seems to be three or four words that I can't make out from the online pictures that I see. I'd probably have to view my 511 DVD and pause in the right place to take another gander at it.

Just googled this too, I'm not sure if this is the sticker that's on the guitar but it looks like it to me:

http://gallery.bcentral.com/GID4508723P550931-Confederate-Flags/Confederate-Flag-Heritage-Not-Hate.aspx

Sorry for my ignorance on the matter.. if indeed the sticker says "Heritage Not Hate" then maybe Barney's in support of the Southern Heritage?

Or maybe he knows we NOOL'ers would discuss his guitar's decals and he gets a laugh out of it. :p

cozmonite61 wrote:

Yes, I'm still surprised with the Barney-Dukes of Hazzard connection. Boss Hog has a dog named Barney? What will come next? I am in the Twilight Zone... (currently singing the theme song)

interestingly, if you buy the dukes of hazzard season 1 box set, in the 'extras' section they have different celebrities talking about their favourite dukes of hazzard moments. barney is on the DVD! he got a real kick out of cooter, apparently.

nowt wrong with the flag -get over your problems (i have one alongside my Union Flag). Just cos some fooker has a sticker on a guitar doesn't mean he's a racist (Dumb attitude)

Joe Strummer had a 'Ignore Alien Invaders' sticker on his Fender tele- doesn't mean his was anti-alien

Hardly like its a swastica or the AWB symbol.

Ha-Ha I agree andrew....strummer also wore a t-shirt saying "face of the assassin" Hmmmmm....Got me wondering!!!

AgentWood wrote:

cozmonite61 wrote:

Yes, I'm still surprised with the Barney-Dukes of Hazzard connection. Boss Hog has a dog named Barney? What will come next? I am in the Twilight Zone... (currently singing the theme song)

interestingly, if you buy the dukes of hazzard season 1 box set, in the 'extras' section they have different celebrities talking about their favourite dukes of hazzard moments. barney is on the DVD! he got a real kick out of cooter, apparently.

maybe Barney's in support of the Southern Heritage? I'm confused...

As I mentioned before, I don't talk or act Southern, though I live in the South. I'm a pround Yank. Anyway, this thread is getting interesting.

Another thing popped in my head of Barney's Southern connection. When I first heard "The Perfect Kiss" on International, I was stunned when I heard the cowbell. It wasn't until I saw the video that I found out it was Barney banging that thing. If there was a comic strip moment about TPK, there would be a thinking balloon above Barney's head that says: "I gotta have more cowbell."

Barney wasn't the only one who went Southern in the TPK video. I was surprised that Hooky went redneck with his mullet. OMG, mullets were popular in Britain too?!

A Southrener Travels North

We don't take kindly to those Southern ways round these parts.

Very funny, BIGINOIL. Not a nice analogy to this funny thread.

Isnt it possible that the guitar came with the flag and Bernard didnt know what it was / couldnt be bothered to change it?

cozmonite61 wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

cozmonite61 wrote:

Yes, I'm still surprised with the Barney-Dukes of Hazzard connection. Boss Hog has a dog named Barney? What will come next? I am in the Twilight Zone... (currently singing the theme song)

interestingly, if you buy the dukes of hazzard season 1 box set, in the 'extras' section they have different celebrities talking about their favourite dukes of hazzard moments. barney is on the DVD! he got a real kick out of cooter, apparently.

maybe Barney's in support of the Southern Heritage? I'm confused...

As I mentioned before, I don't talk or act Southern, though I live in the South. I'm a pround Yank. Anyway, this thread is getting interesting.

Another thing popped in my head of Barney's Southern connection. When I first heard "The Perfect Kiss" on International, I was stunned when I heard the cowbell. It wasn't until I saw the video that I found out it was Barney banging that thing. If there was a comic strip moment about TPK, there would be a thinking balloon above Barney's head that says: "I gotta have more cowbell."

Barney wasn't the only one who went Southern in the TPK video. I was surprised that Hooky went redneck with his mullet. OMG, mullets were popular in Britain too?!

believe it or not mullets were actually quite popular in them that day gone bye (not that i ever really had one), and as such do not have a rednck association. cowbells, don't cows all over the world have those?

snt it possible that the guitar came with the flag and Bernard didnt know what it was / couldnt be bothered to change it?

Same question I have. Where did he get his guitar made? Nashville? New Orleans? Memphis? Atlanta? Does the U.K. have guitars with Confederate flag decorations?

I used to have an avatar here with the Confederate Flag for quite a long time, which some NOOLers didn't like. Out of respect to them I changed it.

To me the Confederate Flag is a symbol of rock'n'roll, and it's usual to see the flag in countries outside the USA.

Here in Texas they sell it everywhere, at expos, at boot stores, etc.

True. Lynard Skynard had used Confederate flags in their band, and "Sweet Home Alabama" went mainstream.

cozmonite61 wrote: True. Lynard Skynard had used Confederate flags in their band, and "Sweet Home Alabama" went mainstream.

Plus recall The Dukes of Hazard! It was considered alright.

Yup. Barney is keeping up with his fan loyalty to the show. I wonder what he thought of the remake? I'm not a big fan of Jessica Simpson so there's my verdict.

cozmonite61 wrote: Yup. Barney is keeping up with his fan loyalty to the show. I wonder what he thought of the remake? I'm not a big fan of Jessica Simpson so there's my verdict.

It's all about the flag, not Jessica. Or is it?

Hey, it's my brand of sarcasm. Course we're still talking about the flag. The thing is about getting the answer to one of the most fascinating questions about the band.

some kid has bin laden pic in his avatar. does that mean he is glorifying him.

Remember barney used to wear let god sort them out tshirt. Its called irony. also remember a band called joy division?

cozmonite61 wrote:

snt it possible that the guitar came with the flag and Bernard didnt know what it was / couldnt be bothered to change it?

Same question I have. Where did he get his guitar made? Nashville? New Orleans? Memphis? Atlanta? Does the U.K. have guitars with Confederate flag decorations?

I dont know. Maybe you can find out for us.

ghost rider wrote: also remember a band called joy division?

good point

ghost rider wrote: some kid has bin laden pic in his avatar. does that mean he is glorifying him.

Remember barney used to wear let god sort them out tshirt. Its called irony. also remember a band called joy division?

I'm missing the irony. It's OK to sport a symbol of slavery, or a swastika, if you're actually against the idea of slavery, or nazism?

Or was sporting nazi regalia, and now slavery regalia, merely meant to shock?

so the nazi imagery from jd bothers you and the name new order?. Im a big fan of war stragedy games but i hate war itself. this makes me a fascist?

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

ghost rider wrote: some kid has bin laden pic in his avatar. does that mean he is glorifying him.

Remember barney used to wear let god sort them out tshirt. Its called irony. also remember a band called joy division?

I'm missing the irony. It's OK to sport a symbol of slavery, or a swastika, if you're actually against the idea of slavery, or nazism?

Or was sporting nazi regalia, and now slavery regalia, merely meant to shock?

In every irony there's truth, isn't it?

ghost rider wrote: so the nazi imagery from jd bothers you and the name new order?. Im a big fan of war stragedy games but i hate war itself. this makes me a fascist?

I'm just not following the "irony" thesis. In what way is it "ironic"?

Suppose I don a KKK hood and gown for my commute on public transit tomorrow. What message, if any, should people get from that? That I'm being "ironic"?

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

ghost rider wrote: so the nazi imagery from jd bothers you and the name new order?. Im a big fan of war stragedy games but i hate war itself. this makes me a fascist?

I'm just not following the "irony" thesis. In what way is it "ironic"?

Suppose I don a KKK hood and gown for my commute on public transit tomorrow. What message, if any, should people get from that? That I'm being "ironic"?

Exactly! I would love to see you riding the public bus like that. The message? A muaaus-produced secret. You're a mysterious man who takes the piss.

the trouble is how do you tell the difference between somebody who is being ironic and somebody who means it. that is the issue. it is better not to toy with emotionally sensitive symbols. JD may have had the look, but to the best of my knowledge they never actually used any nazi regalia.

The Confederate flag is surely one of those grey areas

Ronald Kirsch wrote: the trouble is how do you tell the difference between somebody who is being ironic and somebody who means it. that is the issue. it is better not to toy with emotionally sensitive symbols. JD may have had the look, but to the best of my knowledge they never actually used any nazi regalia.

Yep.

ghost rider wrote: some kid has bin laden pic in his avatar. does that mean he is glorifying him.

Remember barney used to wear let god sort them out tshirt. Its called irony. also remember a band called joy division?

I'm pretty sure it was Hooky who wore that shirt...check out the Pumped Full of Drugs concert footage.

Ironwill wrote:

ghost rider wrote: some kid has bin laden pic in his avatar. does that mean he is glorifying him.

Remember barney used to wear let god sort them out tshirt. Its called irony. also remember a band called joy division?

I'm pretty sure it was Hooky who wore that shirt...check out the Pumped Full of Drugs concert footage.

wasn't that a kill'em all shirt? an old fav of his.

Wasim wrote: Isnt it possible that the guitar came with the flag and Bernard didnt know what it was / couldnt be bothered to change it?

My money's on this one

Probably has it on his guitar to take the "piss" out of the politcally correct types that seem to inhabit these concerts or boards. Bet Barney like Duke of Hazzard, muscle cars and babes let as a 50 year old.

Down South some of the biggest Black "rednecks" and White "rednecks" fly the Star and Bars...it is a symbol of rebellion against the conforming order. Only politically correct types get their undies in a bunch about it.

It is also an official flag in "War Between the States/Civil War" cemeteries.

Always chuckle when a Euro-type judges others when they are losing their free speech rights to a 7th century horde out of Asia about what you can say or not say in your papers or cartoons.

We are all Danes now.

Wouldn't mind betting that

a) he doesn't care what it might stand for to some people, it stands for nothing to him but a rock 'n' roll symbol, if that b) certainly isn't trying to make any kind of political or other point c) would probably think that those who thought he was trying to make a point should have better things to worry about in their lives than whether he's got a Confederate flag on his guitar!

Al Jarvis wrote:

Greg Levay wrote: Always chuckle when a Euro-type judges others when they are losing their free speech rights to a 7th century horde out of Asia about what you can say or not say in your papers or cartoons.

Lovely turn of phrase you have there, sir. "A 7th Century horde out of Asia". Bless. Means they have a good 1000 years more history than your lot though, no?!

Oh, and what the fcuk is a Euro-type?!

He does have a point though. Europe is pretty much shitting itself over the reaction to a few badly drawn cartoons.

Al Jarvis wrote: To sit there and say he's 'chuckling' is rather childish though. How many Europeans sat here 'chuckling' at 9/11, nodding sagely, and saying, "We told you so!".

None, I should imagine.

Yes, an unfortunate turn of phrase.

I was in Monaco on 11th September 2001 and, as you do, repaired to a bar in the evening to watch the unbearable news. As we sat there a couple of glamorous looking French women breezed in and air-kissed their way around the people they knew in the bar. Catching sight of the telly, they asked the barman what was going on. He briefly explained and, for a second, the enormity of the situation seemed to hit the two. One was clearly lost for words, the other gave a little shrug and said something that I will never forget:

“C’est la vie”

So, to answer your question - two!

It's all lies.

Andrew Sayer wrote: Hardly like its a swastica or the AWB symbol.

to a lot of black americans it might as well be.

AgentWood wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Hardly like its a swastica or the AWB symbol.

to a lot of black americans it might as well be.

Agreed, but the black americans of today weren't slaves. Maybe it's just knowing that their kin were slaves and that was only 3 or 4 generations ago. Very recent in historic terms.

Or maybe he liked the Primal Scream album, "Give Out But Don't Give Up"!

I think the honourable member from Welwyn Garden City has correctly answered the question!

Right, what's next on the agenda?

Ahh, I see the Aberdeen Order have asked about the samples on the opening of the wonderful Jetstream...

There are places around where I am where people do not take kindly to the union jack being displayed - not even if the queen is superimposed on it with a safety pin through her nose.

One person's harmless 'rebel' symbol is another's symbol of oppression.

My betting is that he doesn't have a clue about the issues surrounding the confederate flag. As for its connotations re: slavery, let's not forget that the war for the union was fought by many southerners who didn't care about slavery but were just fighting for the rights of their state and the right not to be bullied by central govt

"States Rights" is a nice code for putting "let the discrimination continue." Really scary how many of these folks still hate Lincoln. Perhaps Longstreet was correct when he said that they should have freed the slaves and then fired on Fort Sumter.

Anyone have a link to Karl Marx's newspaper articles that he submitted during the war?

Ironwill wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Hardly like its a swastica or the AWB symbol.

to a lot of black americans it might as well be.

Agreed, but the black americans of today weren't slaves. Maybe it's just knowing that their kin were slaves and that was only 3 or 4 generations ago. Very recent in historic terms.

Lots of Jews weren't in Auschwitz either, so a swastika's got no meaning to them either, right?

Greg Levay wrote: Down South some of the biggest Black "rednecks" and White "rednecks" fly the Star and Bars...it is a symbol of rebellion against the conforming order. Only politically correct types get their undies in a bunch about it.

Damn liberals bein' against slavery, an' all...

...not to mention bein' against all them Jim Crow laws they got their panties up in a bunch about....

Greg Levay wrote: Down South some of the biggest Black "rednecks" ... fly the Star and Bars...

So what does bullshit taste like, anyway, Greg?

Let's forget about politics for a while, and start focusing on how Barney got the flag on his guitar. I tried to surf the net for British guitar makers, but couldn't come across a company that offers that design. My second guess would be that Bernard got his guitar made in America. Heck, he has the money for it. What's next for him, showing off his factory made Robert E. Lee to drive and honk "Dixie" in Manchester's roadways?

I think the guitar in mention is the red Gibson SG...

http://www.gibson.com/Products%5FEuro/GibsonElectric/Gibson%20Electric%20Guitars/SG%20Specials/

you can check out http://www.worldinmotion.net/ for pics. right now.

Thanx, nmc. My second guess is right since it's from Gibson USA.

I was right about another thing. It was manufactured in Nashville, TN. Hey, it's Southern and it's "the country music capital of the world."! I know some Southern culture. Bernard customized his guitar. Case closed.

So the LOGIC goes if HOOKY followed suit his FLAG would be at half mast? R.I.P Rocket Mick

Shug wrote: So is Barney NOT a fan of the Dukes Of Hazard then?

of course he damn well is. who isn't? those boys were in trouble with the law since the day they was born.

what a silly question, shug-boy.

go and play some dueling banjoes. set yerself straight.

If it's a Dukes of Hazard thing then that's cool...

I've never been happy that Barney has this flag on his axe...

I just wish celebs would take a bit more care when making use of potentially inflammatory symbols...

Ronald Kirsch wrote: the trouble is how do you tell the difference between somebody who is being ironic and somebody who means it. that is the issue. it is better not to toy with emotionally sensitive symbols. JD may have had the look, but to the best of my knowledge they never actually used any nazi regalia.

That was Hitler's mistake. When he invaded Poland he should have claimed he was only doing it ironically, as a witty comment on German militarism. Then everyone would have chuckled knowingly instead of declaring war.

(I'm amazed at the response to this thread.)

The answer to the question probably lies with the text that is underneath the sticker.. anyone with eagle eyes and a lot of spare time can look into it?

If it says "Made You Read This" then haha..

But if it says "I am a Racist" then.. no haha..

I personally doubt Barney would knowingly have a guitar with obvious racial offensive material.. so the text probably would reveal something. Or not.

404 error wrote:

Ronald Kirsch wrote: the trouble is how do you tell the difference between somebody who is being ironic and somebody who means it. that is the issue. it is better not to toy with emotionally sensitive symbols. JD may have had the look, but to the best of my knowledge they never actually used any nazi regalia.

That was Hitler's mistake. When he invaded Poland he should have claimed he was only doing it ironically, as a witty comment on German militarism. Then everyone would have chuckled knowingly instead of declaring war.

actually that is more or less what happened. Germany claimed it was only defending itself against polish agression, and was only returning fire.

anyway lets get back to symblism, or kill this thread.

personnaly i think barney just thinks it looks cool.

Just because Barney was a skinhead in his youth and used to go out Paki bashing doesnt mean he's an racist fascist thug now does it?

a very small boy wrote: Just because Barney was a skinhead in his youth and used to go out Paki bashing doesnt mean he's an racist fascist thug now does it?

i sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

Did the incident involving skinheads pogoing to Transmission actually exist as seen in 24 Hour Party People?

Ronald Kirsch wrote:

a very small boy wrote: Just because Barney was a skinhead in his youth and used to go out Paki bashing doesnt mean he's an racist fascist thug now does it?

i sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

As opposed to what?

This thread is too hot to handle. I'm glad I haven't posted on this one. :bag:

a very small boy wrote:

Ronald Kirsch wrote:

a very small boy wrote: Just because Barney was a skinhead in his youth and used to go out Paki bashing doesnt mean he's an racist fascist thug now does it?

i sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

As opposed to what?

a stated opinion. how are we ment to know what you mean if you don't use the smilies.

put it to fuckin bed eh!!!

J.A.K wrote: put it to fuckin bed eh!!!

Quite right!

:bag:

Whats the matter? Can't you handle the FACT that Barney was a skinhead in his youth (look at the school photograph) and that he took great delight in professing to go out at night Paki bashing? And you all wonder why Joy Division was tainted with fascist, Nazi allegations or was it just a media fiction? As it happens I dont think that he was particularly successful in his Paki bashing as Salford never had and still doesnt have a sizable Asian population. It didnt stop him bashing non Pakis though. Ultimately though, what you get up to in your first flush of mad impetuous youth should not be held against you as maturity surfaces. I dont suppose everyone is proud of every element of their entire life. As for the Confederate flag, it wouldnt occur to me it was a symbol of racist subordination but whether it would to Barney I know not but would doubt. As for smilies I've lived too long on the BSP forum and have grown out of the habit! (Will an exclamation mark do instead?)