Re-issues/remasters

In view of the recent Cure re-issues/remasters/expandeds',is'nt it about time the same honour was bestowed on the world with N.O.'s,mainly just referring to the '80's albums,altho' Republic could do with an overhaul to improve it?! I mean,for one,the sound quality on my Factory version of Low Life is shite,& maybe Movement may also benefit from a remastering,get the fucking mud off it.But,& I bow down to 'The Knowledge' of my fellow NOOLERS on this,what could they be expanded to? Movement could have the Western Works demos for a start,PCL the full Prime586,Blue Monday edit,Thieves Like Us/Lonesome Tonight demos maybe,but after that,I'm at a loss as to available/worthwhile material.Thoughts?

Apologies if this has been brought up before:\oops:

Most of the tracks will have been remastered for the Retro,International,Best Of? and Singles compilations. Oh and when they were re-issued by Warners/London. There is a ruck of stuff i havent got. Its highly unlikely i`ll ever get though.

Yeh,I know they've been done in the formats you've mentioned,but I mean as individual albums, remastered,expanded,deluxe editions similar to The Cure recent re-issues.Apart from the stuff I mentioned,& rehearsal material & such that I have on tape,there must be other stuff in existance,especially owned by Hooky,as he has tons of tapes & stuff

This topic has been coming up quite a lot lately. If it happens they will most likely be released by Rhino in the US, and don't expect anything until next year or 2008.

i think with the release of Control there may be a bit more interest in JD/NO, so more remasters etc would be nice

mark kelly wrote: In view of the recent Cure re-issues/remasters/expandeds',is'nt it about time the same honour was bestowed on the world with N.O.'s,mainly just referring to the '80's albums,altho' Republic could do with an overhaul to improve it?! I mean,for one,the sound quality on my Factory version of Low Life is shite,& maybe Movement may also benefit from a remastering,get the fucking mud off it.But,& I bow down to 'The Knowledge' of my fellow NOOLERS on this,what could they be expanded to? Movement could have the Western Works demos for a start,PCL the full Prime586,Blue Monday edit,Thieves Like Us/Lonesome Tonight demos maybe,but after that,I'm at a loss as to available/worthwhile material.Thoughts?

Apologies if this has been brought up before:\oops:

There is no 'mud' on Movement! Maybe the CD transfer is shite, I haven't heard it, but the vinyl is one of the crispest and best sounding records ever!

Spotnick wrote: Since I know for a fact they have remastered all Joy Division's catalogue and it will be released later this year....

Did I miss something Spotnick? What do you know about the Joy Divsion albums being remastered, have you got anymore detail on this? I'm sure that the guys at Joy Division Central would be very interested in this.

DC,the 'mud' I refer to is the claustrophobic production Hannet wrapped it in,N.O.themselves were unhappy with the way it ended up,Hooky in particular.Listen to the songs live & they come to life,on record they are stifled & weighed down.They're great songs too,for me,it's a shame

I remember reading in Hi-Fi Answers Magazine a long article about how fantastic the sound was on the the Movement LP in the vinyl format.

Oh aye, the sound quality is highly impressive, it's just a pity that Hannett got his finger stuck on the "fog" button on the console just before the acetate was struck! Every song is swathed in claustrophobic fog, which is such a pity, as when you hear them live you hear what the band intended them to sound like.

New Order have never been above a good fleece (Retro, International), so I wouldn't put it past them.

So what would we get?

Movement would get Ceremony, IALP, Cries & Whispers, Mesh plus the Western Works demos added, possibly a couple of live tracks and maybe Procession and EGG.

PC&L would get Blue Monday, The Beach, Murder, Confusion and probably some live takes, plus maybe Temptation/Hurt.

Low Life would get Let's Go, Skullcrusher, Thieves, Lonesome, full TPK plus some live stuff.

Brotherhood would get the alternative As It Is, Shellshock, State of the Nation, maybe even True Faith and 1963 and some live stuff.

Technique would get MTO, Don't Do It, Best And Marsh, and some live stuff.

Republic would get forgotten hopefully.

Get Ready would get all the good stuff they decided to put on B-sides instead of that dross like Slow Jam.

WFTSC, well I dunno.....

On Movement I'd like to hear an additional version of DNE where the relative volumes of the two vocal tracks are swapped so the lines as sung live are to the fore rather than the more subdued vocals.

oldmonkey wrote: So what would we get?

Movement would get Ceremony, IALP, Cries & Whispers, Mesh plus the Western Works demos added, possibly a couple of live tracks and maybe Procession and EGG.

PC&L would get Blue Monday, The Beach, Murder, Confusion and probably some live takes, plus maybe Temptation/Hurt.

Low Life would get Let's Go, Skullcrusher, Thieves, Lonesome, full TPK plus some live stuff.

Brotherhood would get the alternative As It Is, Shellshock, State of the Nation, maybe even True Faith and 1963 and some live stuff.

Technique would get MTO, Don't Do It, Best And Marsh, and some live stuff.

Republic would get forgotten hopefully.

Get Ready would get all the good stuff they decided to put on B-sides instead of that dross like Slow Jam.

WFTSC, well I dunno.....

That'll def do for starters.....

mark kelly wrote: DC,the 'mud' I refer to is the claustrophobic production Hannet wrapped it in,N.O.themselves were unhappy with the way it ended up,Hooky in particular.Listen to the songs live & they come to life,on record they are stifled & weighed down.They're great songs too,for me,it's a shame

It's an old debate, and I guess we'll just have to disagree. I think the production is absolutely fantastic, Hannett's best probably. It's true that he took advantage of the fact that they were maybe unsure of their direction at the time, to try some radical ideas. I think they work brilliantly.

The songs are also great live, I agree.

oldmonkey wrote: So what would we get?

Movement would get Ceremony, IALP, Cries & Whispers, Mesh plus the Western Works demos added, possibly a couple of live tracks and maybe Procession and EGG.

PC&L would get Blue Monday, The Beach, Murder, Confusion and probably some live takes, plus maybe Temptation/Hurt.

Low Life would get Let's Go, Skullcrusher, Thieves, Lonesome, full TPK plus some live stuff.

Brotherhood would get the alternative As It Is, Shellshock, State of the Nation, maybe even True Faith and 1963 and some live stuff.

Technique would get MTO, Don't Do It, Best And Marsh, and some live stuff.

Republic would get forgotten hopefully.

Get Ready would get all the good stuff they decided to put on B-sides instead of that dross like Slow Jam.

WFTSC, well I dunno.....

For me there would be no point unless we got some genuinely new stuff - rehearsals, demos, excellent quality live material. All of the above is well known and available, except maybe the Western Works demos.

DC wrote:

mark kelly wrote: DC,the 'mud' I refer to is the claustrophobic production Hannet wrapped it in,N.O.themselves were unhappy with the way it ended up,Hooky in particular.Listen to the songs live & they come to life,on record they are stifled & weighed down.They're great songs too,for me,it's a shame

It's an old debate, and I guess we'll just have to disagree. I think the production is absolutely fantastic, Hannett's best probably. It's true that he took advantage of the fact that they were maybe unsure of their direction at the time, to try some radical ideas. I think they work brilliantly.

The songs are also great live, I agree.

I agree with Tim on this one: the production IS great, but it also turn the songs into "something else". It wasn't until I got heavily into bootleg tapes that I began to fall in love with "Movement", an album that had largely bored me shitless before.

As for "remasters": fuck off. I don't want to fork out for "PC&L", "Low-Life", etc YET AGAIN, no matter how many knobs have been tweaked. A multi-disc compilation of demos and live tracks, however, would suit this jaded palate down to the ground....

The remastered Low Life Old Monkey suggested looks to have the most promise: definitive versions of Lets Go and TPK would be fantastic.

I bought Low-Life when it first came out on CD 1986(?). I have always felt the sound of this CD was quite poor. As a result I have not listened to this album much over the last 20 years. When I bought the vinyl on release the previous year (1985) I don't remember thinking there was anything wrong with the sound.

"Technique" on CD, however, sounds fine with a nice full sound (in contrast to the Low-Life CD which sounds thin and harsh to my ears). If they could remaster the Low-Life CD so that it sounded a bit better maybe I could get back to listening to it again!!

Adam Tate wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Since I know for a fact they have remastered all Joy Division's catalogue and it will be released later this year....

Did I miss something Spotnick? What do you know about the Joy Divsion albums being remastered, have you got anymore detail on this? I'm sure that the guys at Joy Division Central would be very interested in this.

I thought Andy Robinson, Jon Wozencroft and Liam Mullen remastered the JD back catalogue for the Heart & Soul box set...

...according to the Heart & Soul booklet.

Is this right Jon?

Remastering is only of value if it's done properly. Too many recent remasters are just an excuse to compress the hell out of the recordings to make them seem louder and more like modern productions (see "Singles"). You lose all the dynamic range by doing this and they just sound horrible as a result.

As for bonus tracks, the value of The Cure remasters has been the inclusion of excellent genuinely unreleased tracks. Many of which haven't even been available on bootlegs before and come straight from Robert Smith's personal collection.

If we do get New Order remasters then we should get unreleased stuff like this, not stuff that we've all got. We know these songs exist, look at the rehearsal tapes that were circulated recently. The only problem is that Barney in partcular, seems to be determined that none of this material should ever see the light of day, no matter how interesting it would be to the band's fan base. Sadly I think we'll just end up with just another rehash of familiar material - totally pointless.

The Sonic Youth, Pavement, and Cure reissues should definately be the standard.

The bonus discs should include as many remixes and alternate takes they can put on. They should try to include all the vinyl only stuff too. Doesn't Hooky allegedly have an entire vault of unreleased live, demo, and other stuff they could pull from?

In all honesty, I would rather them go the Pavement route. The Cure reissues have the full album on disc one. In many cases, there is still plenty of room left for songs. The Pavement reissues add tracks to the end of the album just to put even more on them. I know some people would say "well, I want to listen to the "real" album striaght". Big deal, use the fast-foward button. I want as much bonus material as possible.

I wasn't fortunate enough to be born early enough to be able to enjoy a lot of the bands I like when they were in their "prime" so to speak, so reissues, more specifically really damn good reissues, are always welcomed by me.

methanolcereal wrote: The Sonic Youth, Pavement, and Cure reissues should definately be the standard.

The bonus discs should include as many remixes and alternate takes they can put on. They should try to include all the vinyl only stuff too. Doesn't Hooky allegedly have an entire vault of unreleased live, demo, and other stuff they could pull from?

In all honesty, I would rather them go the Pavement route. The Cure reissues have the full album on disc one. In many cases, there is still plenty of room left for songs. The Pavement reissues add tracks to the end of the album just to put even more on them. I know some people would say "well, I want to listen to the "real" album striaght". Big deal, use the fast-foward button. I want as much bonus material as possible.

Sonically, have to take issue with the Cure and Pavement reissues as the standard. Both are overly compressed, sometimes too much. Materials-wise, yeah, they did nice jobs with those.

Better reference for sonics would be the Echo and the Bunnymen remasters on Rhino, which sound spectacular.

drew

Agreed, Bunnymen remasters as sonic template and Cure ones for tracks - that'd do nicely.

Won't happen though - I doubt we'll ever see demos or unreleased tracks get released officially.

All the above comments lead back to the question,Why was Retro so fucking badly put together? It would never have happened if Rob had still been around.

Retro was done by a band who are still a going concern, it's easy for them to see JD as a finished thing because it is.

This means that the all encompassing compilation of demos, rehearsals, rarities may have to wait until NO is over and they become objective about that band's history. I can't say I got the impression that Rob was ever too concerned about the band's and the Hacienda's history, it was always more about the here and now rather than looking back.

Agree totally with both of the above posters.The Bunnymen re-issues should be the standard for quality,played Heaven Up Here recently,my favourite,& it has definately benefited sonically by the remaster.& on the point of Retro,yes,it's a lavishly,lovingly put together piece of work but oh,what an opportunity missed with the '5th' disc,& the rest,most of us have already got.So who was it aimed at? Dare we throw accusations in the direction of rip-off? I bought it yeh,but I had to.& why is Barney so against archive material being released,especially JD stuff?

steveone wrote: All the above comments lead back to the question,Why was Retro so fucking badly put together? It would never have happened if Rob had still been around.

A bit like Recycle never happened, you mean......?

Everything is badly put together when it comes to New Order, it sort of goes with the territory. Just look at some of the production, the editing, tracklist changes, promotional stuff, delays etc. The only time they got most of it right was Technique!

mark kelly wrote: Agree totally with both of the above posters.The Bunnymen re-issues should be the standard for quality,played Heaven Up Here recently,my favourite,& it has definately benefited sonically by the remaster.& on the point of Retro,yes,it's a lavishly,lovingly put together piece of work but oh,what an opportunity missed with the '5th' disc,& the rest,most of us have already got.So who was it aimed at? Dare we throw accusations in the direction of rip-off? I bought it yeh,but I had to.& why is Barney so against archive material being released,especially JD stuff?

I've always got the impression that he was a tad embarrassed by some of the poor playing and pottymouth outbreaks over the NO years, and let's face it, they do tend to occur almost everywhere! Can't comment on the JD stuff, I have no idea at all.

Did anybody ever se the pet shop boys reissues with the great further listening discs and grade one sleeve notes? That for me would be THE template for any reissue, no doubt theyll just make a bollocks of it as usual tho

Nobody has ever convinced me as to the need for sleeve notes.

I've read that the centredate/london issues were remastered but i'm not convinced! Anyone know for sure?

Yes...I must also add myself to the list of folks here who proclaim the Bunnymen remasters to be the best of the bunch. Even their starkest and most uncompromising album, "Porcupine", positively surges with a force like that of a hurricane in the tundra. The remastering has made these songs sound immense!

Their 4CD "Crystal Days" box set is also utterly abso fabso......I cannot recommend that one enough as the remastering of much of the material on there is top notch.

I'd like to see the Order try and match this sort of impeccable standard - and I bet they won't cos that's just what they're like.