Are New Order Going To Call It A Day After This Tour?

Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to Monday, but there are a couple of nagging doubts in my mind.

Poor ticket sales, cryptic comments from Alan Wise about the 'last time', the non-materialisation of an album that was over 50% complete 18 months ago. The descision not to tour Yorkshire, obviously.

Of course, they might have a wonderful time around the provinces and really get motivated, but somehow I'm left with the feeling that they're going to give it one last try and hope it doesn't fall completely flat on it's arse.

I thought they`d given up after Technique. Its amazing what session musicans can do nowdays.

steveone wrote: I thought they`d given up after Technique. Its amazing what session musicans can do nowdays.

god i hope so.

this websites costing me a fortune in lost concentration.

Spotnick wrote: We had this discussion in 2002 if I remember well, and we're still here 4 years later.

Hope that does mean if they stop,you will too Nic? What would Missy Jem,Kershaw and Al do all day at work then? Work?

Maybe or maybe not? Hooky did hint in a interview for the Liverpool Echo prior to the Liverpool gig that Bernard and Steve no longer like touring and that's why he's got into DJing. Draw your own conclusions but IMO I reckon NO will do one last studio album, the soundtrack to Control and one last major tour before perhaps calling it a day. I'm just going to enjoy the here and now with them and I could be totally with my predictions here, cheers!

I'm afraid that after Control - and supporting it with an all-JD set - they will call it a day.

But I sincerely hope that scenario doesn't happen...

Nah, they're super-heroes... They'll live and tour forever!

Snorri xxx

"Here To Stay" was literal.

I would say it's quite probable that they'll retire within the next few years. Which is why we should be taking in as many gigs as possible (says she who's only going to two this year ) It's not like they've got a massive following like e.g. the Stones who are guaranteed a sell-out no matter how old and wrinkled they are, although imho they should have stopped as well, like 15 years ago.

steveone wrote:

What would Missy Jem,Kershaw and Al do all day at work then? Work?

Don't swear at me!

I think they'll definitely do the next record, and promote that and see how that goes, but I would honestly be surprised if there were any more than that.

As much as I would like to see them playing small venues, it ain't gonna happen really, half the band don't really like gigging that much.

i just hope they keep going as they are at least for a few more years. I hope to catch the band again at least a few times before they call it quits. I'll continue to purchase all their out put.

After the absences between 89 & 93 and then to 98, when I honestly believed we'd seen the last of the Order, I take everything they give us as a bonus.

It won't last forever, nothing does. Just enjoy what you can and thank your good luck for discovering the band in the first place.

See you in the Pool...

Rorschach wrote: After the absences between 89 & 93 and then to 98, when I honestly believed we'd seen the last of the Order, I take everything they give us as a bonus.

It won't last forever, nothing does. Just enjoy what you can and thank your good luck for discovering the band in the first place.

See you in the Pool...

Hear hear. That's why I do as many gigs as poss now, I used to be a bit more selective in the mid 80s. Guess I used to think that the day would never come.

As Rorschach says, nothing lasts forever. Part of me wants them to quit on a high, and at a time of their own choosing rather than carrying on on a downward spiral (but they have tried that see 1993). It is perhaps the subject of another thread, but the lack of support for this tour is quite surprising and I suppose illustrates the power of marketing and having a strong record company behind you. (Never was NO's way though)

Everyone knows that at some point they will be done. But for now I"m simply rolling around in the bliss from what they are currently doing.

El Jarvo wrote: Nah, they'll do something in support of Control.

What, morph into Joy Division mkII? I think I'd rather see them bow out with dignity intact.

It's their JOB. Giving up isn't just some thing they'll do to look cool, it's called retiring. Just the same anyone else, they'll keep working until they want to stop working (or until people stop turning up).

This assumes they can afford to stop, which I doubt is the case anyway.

I can't imagine that they are really planning. Rather than deciding to officially call it a day I think they will just fall apart and they all know that is somehow over for them. And some years later they will start again as it was in 98. Somehow I've got the feeling Hooky wouldn't mind New Order becoming a tribute band for Joy Division and their greatest 80ies hits whereas Bernard is now lazy enough to fulfil his part in that - something he would have hated before WFTSC. Just listen to the effort they put in updating their sound for the 98 shows - since then: nothing. they even play live to samples from "Everything's gone green".

One more album,then it`ll be over. Cant see them turning into The Rolling Stones.

oh christ i have felt so many times grief when it was reported in the nme that no had split. sure it has to happen someday. just lets enjoy the music and the gigs until...

remember the happy mondays mantra (24hr pp); who were inspired by no and again lived local in wardley and little hulton. viva manchester

I can't see them quitting after what would be a last gig overseas (Buenos Aires). Surely its gotta be somewhere in Mancland.

Cab you just imagine the guest list if they announced a final gig in Manchester ? :D

5 night residency in the Apollo...

Diamond White wrote: It's their JOB. Giving up isn't just some thing they'll do to look cool, it's called retiring. Just the same anyone else, they'll keep working until they want to stop working (or until people stop turning up).

This assumes they can afford to stop, which I doubt is the case anyway.

Right on the money - I agree with you.

I am not at all precious about this legendary NO legacy that some people are so protective of - I guess I'm a bit selfish in that regard in that I don't mind them putting out an album with mostly crap on it, as long as there are those 2 or 3 classic tunes on there that can sustain me for years and years. For example in their post 1990 output songs like Crystal, Regret, Here to stay, WFTSC etc are ones where I listen to them obsessively for months on end, then take a break for a while, but at some point I come back to them and enjoy them again. I'd be happy if they even get together once in a while and just release an EP or even a single with a b-side or something. I guess on the touring side of things the people who will really miss out are the European based fans, esp in the UK - fans in the rest of the world won't be missing anything, as we're already used to them not touring and to be honest, seeing them churning out the same setlist time after time isn't that appealing anyway. I have a feeling that Barney and Hooky will stay involved in music and collaborate with other people in new projects, with Steve taking more of a backseat.

Part of me can understand when people talk about the NO legacy being trampled, but that can always be countered with "but they were always about not giving a fuck", so I guess that NO will always be about doing what they want. I wouldn't have thought that they would have to carry on because of money (contractual obligation maybe?), so I doubt Barney can hate it that much. Otherwise they'd stop surely?

I think they will call it a day soon, but if they don't, well I'm happy for them to bash out pub singalong versions of LWTUA - they wrote the bloody thing! The only problem comes if they continue to be lazy with promotion/albums/gigs, then even the hardcore will start to lose interest, and it won't be in the bands' hands whether they quit or not!

steveone wrote: One more album,then it`ll be over. Cant see them turning into The Rolling Stones.

Perish the fuckin' thought!! After I saw them at Manc' Apollo in 2001,I came away feeling I didn't want to see them anymore,it felt like to me the magic had gone.The mystery,the edge,the cool,the aloofness,call it whatever,that something that makes N.O. what they were/are & set them apart from everybody else just seemed to have gone,they were more like a British Legion cabaret act.Now don't get me wrong,I'm not begrudging them being like that,they,ve been there & done that & still remain for most of their peers,highly respected & admired,it's just that I personally felt I wanted to remember them as being as great as they are,& not a fuckin',creaking,OAP parody that is the Rolling Bones.I did since,change my mind,as the Move festival performance was blinding & other interviews/performances have shown that cool & aloofness are still there,even at the Hall of Fame thing( Fuck me,I'm famous!),but I have to admit,as much as absolutely love them & always will,& will miss them completely,it can't & shouldn't go on forever. :\ohwell:

Diamond White wrote:

This assumes they can afford to stop, which I doubt is the case anyway.

I cant understand this "new order arent that well off" attitude. ok,so they got ripped off/let down by Factory-it was fucking 15 years ago! How much do you think London/Warners gave them for the rights?,how many compilations have been out since? Hooky probably gets very well paid for DJing,then theres electronic and TV work,concerts. They aint poor and could stop tomorrow if they like.

the financial side of things is,quite rightly their business. But its time we stopped feeling sorry for them-they are fucking legends after all!

:D

steveone wrote:

Diamond White wrote:

This assumes they can afford to stop, which I doubt is the case anyway.

I cant understand this "new order arent that well off" attitude. ok,so they got ripped off/let down by Factory-it was fucking 15 years ago! How much do you think London/Warners gave them for the rights?,how many compilations have been out since? Hooky probably gets very well paid for DJing,then theres electronic and TV work,concerts. They aint poor and could stop tomorrow if they like.

the financial side of things is,quite rightly their business. But its time we stopped feeling sorry for them-they are fucking legends after all!

:D

Nah, most musicians are exceedingly bad at finances, so the stories of them not being that "well off" are probably not that far off the truth...?

After all, don't forget that everything (and I mean everything) to do with a record's creation/promotion is paid out by the band's advance (which would have been for 'x' amount of albums)... After you've paid for artwork (Saville must cost a fortune! :p ), studio engineers, producers, remixers, studio hiring, promotional CD's, manufacturing, retailer's cuts off CD's, venue hires, gig posters/adverts, ticket agencies, etc, etc, etc....

...It's not that difficult to end up with pretty much bugger all at the end of a record contract, and (in fact) end up owing the record company money after they let you go...

Plus, Barney needs to buy another yacht! :p

I hate to say it but, NO have become lazy in their old age, which is understandable, perhaps because of their increased wealth, age and girth.

If you compare the output from 1985 to 1993, and from 1998 to 2006, it really is a game of two halves.

85-93 Four albums, three excellent, 1 iffy. Lots of hit singles. Lots of era defining musical styles etc etc.

98-06 Two albums, both patchy. No real hit singles, excepting Crystal perhaps. Nothing era defining, but a few slaps on the back on their musical 'past' achievements.

I always thought WFTSC was their last chance at a return to greatness. I'm still waiting.

They will never split. They will be cyrogenically frozen and brought back to life with future health technology and kept in shape so they can continue to play 'Blue Monday' well into the 28th century, at which point the people will slowly realise it's not that great a song and enthusiasm will peter off.

In all seriousness, the thought of them calling it quits at some point really saddens me. They've been there my whole life! [sniff]

They'll dodder on for ages yet... The show ain't over until either Hooky or Barney pop their little wooden clogs!

The Stones don't sell out everywhere, because Stones tickets are up to £350!

I think, after what happened in 1993, N.O. should've got some decent accountants in. Wasn't part of the London deal that they would get paid ALL their outstanding Factory royalties as well as a signing fee? Then again, Hooky did say in 1995, he was in his overdraft so maybe that million didn't go too far.

I can't see them retiring, just maybe ceasing to perform live.

The Stones fanbase and that of the Order are not really comparable. Straight question: excluding travel, hotel, booze and what have you costs, would anyone here pay £350 to see the Order (just the ticket price)? If you were super-dedicated I suppose it's possible but I don't think they are able to command such a large figure now.

Personally I think it would be a creeping tragedy if they decided to carry on forever like the Stones. Better to have some dignity and call it a day when they felt they'd achieved what they set out to do - which they definitely have - than carry on regardless ad infinitum as a crass, pathetic marketing operation. Their musical heritage is worth a good deal more than that: it's almost solid fucking gold!

I'm not greedy: if they decided not to record or tour together after the next album is released, that's fine by me. I dearly love the Order but I'd rather have the memories and the music than see them go through the motions forever.

As for being rich, I doubt it but they're probably comfortable enough off now not to worry about finance. I'd say the Factory meltdown/Hac closure was probably sorted by now with no parties being owed anything anymore.

Good things come to an end eventually. I'd rather they released a superb final album and drifted away rather than plod on for years making mediocre albums. I lived through the slow demise of my earlier love, Ultravox, and don't want that to happen again. It's not up to me but, if you've no longer the passion for live work or things generally (Barney and Steve) then there's little point continuing.

NO

SHED wrote: Who are NO?

Exactly...

Snorri xxx

Chemical wrote: The Stones fanbase and that of the Order are not really comparable. Straight question: excluding travel, hotel, booze and what have you costs, would anyone here pay £350 to see the Order (just the ticket price)? If you were super-dedicated I suppose it's possible but I don't think they are able to command such a large figure now.

Personally I think it would be a creeping tragedy if they decided to carry on forever like the Stones. Better to have some dignity and call it a day when they felt they'd achieved what they set out to do - which they definitely have - than carry on regardless ad infinitum as a crass, pathetic marketing operation. Their musical heritage is worth a good deal more than that: it's almost solid fucking gold!

I'm not greedy: if they decided not to record or tour together after the next album is released, that's fine by me. I dearly love the Order but I'd rather have the memories and the music than see them go through the motions forever.

As for being rich, I doubt it but they're probably comfortable enough off now not to worry about finance. I'd say the Factory meltdown/Hac closure was probably sorted by now with no parties being owed anything anymore.

Good things come to an end eventually. I'd rather they released a superb final album and drifted away rather than plod on for years making mediocre albums. I lived through the slow demise of my earlier love, Ultravox, and don't want that to happen again. It's not up to me but, if you've no longer the passion for live work or things generally (Barney and Steve) then there's little point continuing.

Very well said. I totally second that ! Long live NewOrder, the very BEST, ever !

i hope they don't cause bornemouth was my first time seeing them and i rele don't want it to be my last??? lol they are legends they can live forever!!!

they must tour til their 65 then...

Shug wrote: My head says I wish the fuckers would stop after this tour, I am fed up being skint and on the wrong side of the missus.

However, the heart says, keep it coming for another few years. There's nothing like a gig to look forward to, especially the pre-gig holidays and piss ups.

NU ORDAH

Enough said.

RAVEANE DIDIER wrote:

Chemical wrote: The Stones fanbase and that of the Order are not really comparable. Straight question: excluding travel, hotel, booze and what have you costs, would anyone here pay £350 to see the Order (just the ticket price)? If you were super-dedicated I suppose it's possible but I don't think they are able to command such a large figure now.

Personally I think it would be a creeping tragedy if they decided to carry on forever like the Stones. Better to have some dignity and call it a day when they felt they'd achieved what they set out to do - which they definitely have - than carry on regardless ad infinitum as a crass, pathetic marketing operation. Their musical heritage is worth a good deal more than that: it's almost solid fucking gold!

I'm not greedy: if they decided not to record or tour together after the next album is released, that's fine by me. I dearly love the Order but I'd rather have the memories and the music than see them go through the motions forever.

As for being rich, I doubt it but they're probably comfortable enough off now not to worry about finance. I'd say the Factory meltdown/Hac closure was probably sorted by now with no parties being owed anything anymore.

Good things come to an end eventually. I'd rather they released a superb final album and drifted away rather than plod on for years making mediocre albums. I lived through the slow demise of my earlier love, Ultravox, and don't want that to happen again. It's not up to me but, if you've no longer the passion for live work or things generally (Barney and Steve) then there's little point continuing.

The beauty of NO is that they'll do whatever the fuck the want regardless of what sad cunts like you and me think.

Burt Reynolds wrote: I hate to say it but, NO have become lazy in their old age, which is understandable, perhaps because of their increased wealth, age and girth.

If you compare the output from 1985 to 1993, and from 1998 to 2006, it really is a game of two halves.

85-93 Four albums, three excellent, 1 iffy. Lots of hit singles. Lots of era defining musical styles etc etc.

98-06 Two albums, both patchy. No real hit singles, excepting Crystal perhaps. Nothing era defining, but a few slaps on the back on their musical 'past' achievements.

I always thought WFTSC was their last chance at a return to greatness. I'm still waiting.

Strangely enough, I agree with you.

So if NO plays until oblivion like the Stones I guess its only a matter of time before Hooky falls out of a coconut tree somewhere

Can someone pass me a knife and fork - I'd like to eat my words.

Old Blue wrote: Can someone pass me a knife and fork - I'd like to eat my words.

Doesn't look like early retirement now, does it? They're full of surprises still and clearly enjoying themselves.

erm...

Time for more hiatusing...if not a complete break-up. Who needs a record company to record anymore? They should just go independent and release their remaining stuff on the internets.

So what's happening then? I read a message on the Faclist and just ran here expecting hundreds of comments but all is relatively silent... I've seen the other thread in Ceremony and still I see no comments from those closer to the band, I guess you're trying to check the facts before saying anything?

I don't know how I really feel about this... maybe it would be the right time to quit, before a decline which seems to wait for the band if they decide to carry on. Would we want to see New Order play afternoon shows at festivals? I don't know, I don't really know... I'd just like to go back to 1998 when Bernard told me they were back and would have stayed together after the gig at the Apollo and live everything again (and catch a couple of gigs I've missed too - especially Bournemouth this year!) because I know nothing will ever be like them again in the rest of my life.

I know it looked like they split many other times before, but this time it's different because even Hooky seems to agree, while in 1993 he was totally against the split and in 1998 he told me he was the happiest man in the world...

What I'd really like is if they could do a comeback like Morrissey, who got dropped from Mercury and came back into the Top 10 on Sanctuary which is an indie... but I don't really know if there's time left for something like that...

I just know when last year you asked if we preferred the remaining WFTSC tracks to be released as B sides or wait for the new album I just voted for the B sides because I knew anything could happen which would prevent us from hearing them. When there was all that hype about the Godlike geniuses / living legends etc. I just feared there would be a comedown, they just got used to that and then it was like "What, no record sales? But we're legends!".

WFTSC was an excellent album anyway so any track we're missing could be a lost treasure, I'd really like to have no regrets about them... the ideal thing would be get out the unreleased tracks, play a short final tour (would like to see them one last time), and then if they really do agree it's goodbye.

BTW have you heard Loto's Cuckoo Plan with Hooky? It's fookin' great!

One of you just gave me a thought-wouldn't it be weird if NO toured a year for the last time just playing JD songs? After control is released? Nah....that'd be odd.

El Jarvo wrote:

stellar wrote: One of you just gave me a thought-wouldn't it be weird if NO toured a year for the last time just playing JD songs? After control is released? Nah....that'd be odd.

You appear to have mispelt the word 'shit'.

NO!

er... as in negative... despite reports to the contrary...

i hope they'll tour again, now that i might be moving back to the UK and will have a chance to see them a time or 4 more.

AgentWood wrote: i hope they'll tour again, now that i might be moving back to the UK and will have a chance to see them a time or 4 more.

LET's HOPE they don't THEN!

ROCKET MICK wrote:

AgentWood wrote: i hope they'll tour again, now that i might be moving back to the UK and will have a chance to see them a time or 4 more.

LET's HOPE they don't THEN!

i'm taking this personally. i'm mad at you now, baldy! poo on you! :p

Nick King wrote:

steveone wrote:

Diamond White wrote:

This assumes they can afford to stop, which I doubt is the case anyway.

I cant understand this "new order arent that well off" attitude. ok,so they got ripped off/let down by Factory-it was fucking 15 years ago! How much do you think London/Warners gave them for the rights?,how many compilations have been out since? Hooky probably gets very well paid for DJing,then theres electronic and TV work,concerts. They aint poor and could stop tomorrow if they like.

the financial side of things is,quite rightly their business. But its time we stopped feeling sorry for them-they are fucking legends after all!

:D

Nah, most musicians are exceedingly bad at finances, so the stories of them not being that "well off" are probably not that far off the truth...?

After all, don't forget that everything (and I mean everything) to do with a record's creation/promotion is paid out by the band's advance (which would have been for 'x' amount of albums)... After you've paid for artwork (Saville must cost a fortune! :p ), studio engineers, producers, remixers, studio hiring, promotional CD's, manufacturing, retailer's cuts off CD's, venue hires, gig posters/adverts, ticket agencies, etc, etc, etc....

...It's not that difficult to end up with pretty much bugger all at the end of a record contract, and (in fact) end up owing the record company money after they let you go...

True, true. Plus, there's the fact that labels are known for (allegedly) stealing bands' money. So I don't imagine NO are as well off as most people might think.