For Those Who Love A Good Argument About New Order Related Things...

Factory went under cos Getting Away With It was rather good and Bernard decided to dive straight into making the Electronic album instead of Republic,which had it been released 18months earlier would've saved Factory.

So in the long run Sumner has fucked everyone and ruined Factory,turned Republic into a PSB trbute album,forced the sale of back catalogue to London/Warners and left us with shit compilations & dodgy remixes ever since.

After Repugnet (sorry-Republic) came out he fucked off to make Raise the Pressure,which impressed George Michael so much he thought,fuck it lets make another one-Peter has Monaco now,an Steves got his tank.

Fast forward to 2001 and Twisted Twatness has bombed,oops-i need to pay my harbour fees. Did someone say New Order? Unfortunately large record companies dont like giving you a shed load of cash only to watch you fuck off somewhere else to make another album,so have lost interest in promoting a band who haven't been around for 8 years.

Well,thanks Bernard. I hope Hooky puts you on yer arse while Steve gets a sly kick in while your on the deck!

And the cheeky cunt says Wilson ruined his life...

In the words of an old woman,fuckin liberty...

Anyone disagree?

nice one Blun...errr...steveone.

Nice theory! :D Possibly partly right as well. Factory wouldn't necessarily have survived if Republic had been made on Factory and 18 months earlier, I think the massive losses being suffered by the Hacienda would have seen to that, and the ridiculous expenses incurred in the making of that Monday album and Technique didn't exactly help the cashflow. I think that as Bernard had decided midway through 89 that he was offski, at a time when the Order were midway through trying to break the States, was critical, had he decided to give it a few months more before starting Electronic it may have been a bit different. We all know that Bernard hates touring, and midway through a huge US tour he was more susceptible to new ideas that would mean a return to the studio and a break from New Order.

You knew I'd pop up on this one, didn't you?

It is unfair to blame New Order for Factory's demise. They had propped up the label for years.

Factory were waiting for Happy Mondays to save them but they went over to Barbados, smoked themselves into oblivion and made a terrible album.

But Factory can only blame themselves. They spent God knows what on a state of the art HQ in the Gay village and were under withn a very short period of time. And, worse, Tony Wilson decided that dance music was a flash in the pan, even the scene was erupting in his club under his very nose. What did he do? Put out records by 808 State, A Guy Called Gerald etc? No. he signed The Adventure Babies and opened up a classical label.

Since you put it in such a light, steveone, maybe we all oughta get our kicks in? You've got good points there that I do agree with. I think there was a lot more involved than his own (lack of) judgement, that there was a whole big cock up going on which just happened to be timed entirely too well to bring about the end of an 'era'.

Surely if Factory hadn't met its grisy demise then, it would have succumbed sooner or later - the strength of sensible management just wasn't there to keep it chugging along profitably, nor was some semblence of dedication to 'playing the record company game' part of the all the artists under the label.

At least as far as I've read/heard through others, didn't see any of it first hand. Cos had I, I would have been smacking people left and right for being absolute twats throwing a thing like that down the drain!

Nope sorry folks.

there is only four people who are REALLY to blame.

Ste, Pee, Barn and Gill.

Tony Wilson decided that dance music was a flash in the pan, even the scene was erupting in his club under his very nose. What did he do? Put out records by 808 State, A Guy Called Gerald etc? No. he signed The Adventure Babies and opened up a classical label.

...exactly!

He was even presented with Black Box (Ride On Time) and let Decon have it. If he ever goes on about how Factory was responsible for Acid House/Dance music then he needs reminding of the big wrong turn Factory took.

steveone wrote: Factory went under cos Getting Away With It was rather good and Bernard decided to dive straight into making the Electronic album instead of Republic,which had it been released 18months earlier would've saved Factory.

So in the long run Sumner has fucked everyone and ruined Factory,turned Republic into a PSB trbute album,forced the sale of back catalogue to London/Warners and left us with shit compilations & dodgy remixes ever since.

After Repugnet (sorry-Republic) came out he fucked off to make Raise the Pressure,which impressed George Michael so much he thought,fuck it lets make another one-Peter has Monaco now,an Steves got his tank.

Fast forward to 2001 and Twisted Twatness has bombed,oops-i need to pay my harbour fees. Did someone say New Order? Unfortunately large record companies dont like giving you a shed load of cash only to watch you fuck off somewhere else to make another album,so have lost interest in promoting a band who haven't been around for 8 years.

Well,thanks Bernard. I hope Hooky puts you on yer arse while Steve gets a sly kick in while your on the deck!

And the cheeky cunt says Wilson ruined his life...

In the words of an old woman,fuckin liberty...

Anyone disagree?

Thanks for mentioning SHED!

Everyone here says exactly my sentiments.You can't blame Barney for Factory.Factory's money being squandered on lavish HQ and paying off Hacienda "security",with a large investment of NO up the swanee...Needless to say,It'll have caused friction betwwen ALL the band. Another album which might have prolonged Factory,but with that track record not necessarily save it,was YES PLEASE.Hired in half of Talking Heads to produce it,and the Mondays dick about in Barbados.

Factory had led a charmed life up to the point when it all went tits up... Luck over judgement can only get you so far... Tne situations with NO & the Mondays obviously didn't help, but the seeds were sown long before... Agree that the side projects added years to the life of NO as a band... And may still do so again... Let's hope so...

Snorri xxx

Don't forget the Cath Carroll album England Made Me that cost £200,000 and sold 5 copies. The collapse of Factory was a cumulative thing and given that New Order propped it up for years and the Hacienda too, it is unfair to blame them.

Also, buying the new Factory headquarters just as the market bombed was foolish and the main reason behind the collapse.

Kevin Smith wrote: Don't forget the Cath Carroll album England Made Me that cost £200,000 and sold 5 copies.

Anyone own one of the other four?

Snorri xxx

New Order could have saved themselves a lot of headaches (which could have reduced tensions between members) by leaving Factory sooner.

If history could be re-written, I think the Substance compilations (and accompanying BM'88, & Atmosphere singles) would have been a nice parting gift for factory. Signing to a major could have made Technique (and it's tour) more comfortable for the band.

Barney was planning on doing "solo" work as far back as 1987 but a deal with a major would have compelled him to return to New Order sooner.

But you can't go back...

Snorrimon wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Don't forget the Cath Carroll album England Made Me that cost £200,000 and sold 5 copies.

Anyone own one of the other four?

Snorri xxx

Are you counting your copy or mine? So that's potentially 2 of 5.

We should start an 'England Made Me Owners' Club'

Snorri xxx

I'll buy it off you! Got the "Moves Like You" 12" vinyl.

MONTY The Elder! wrote: Got the "Moves Like You" 12" vinyl.

Love that song.

Kevin Smith wrote:

Snorrimon wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Don't forget the Cath Carroll album England Made Me that cost £200,000 and sold 5 copies.

Anyone own one of the other four?

Snorri xxx

Are you counting your copy or mine? So that's potentially 2 of 5.

Make that 3.

And yes, I thought "Moves Like You" was a great single.

steveone wrote: Factory went under cos Getting Away With It was rather good and Bernard decided to dive straight into making the Electronic album instead of Republic,which had it been released 18months earlier would've saved Factory.

So in the long run Sumner has fucked everyone and ruined Factory,turned Republic into a PSB trbute album,forced the sale of back catalogue to London/Warners and left us with shit compilations & dodgy remixes ever since.

After Repugnet (sorry-Republic) came out he fucked off to make Raise the Pressure,which impressed George Michael so much he thought,fuck it lets make another one-Peter has Monaco now,an Steves got his tank.

Fast forward to 2001 and Twisted Twatness has bombed,oops-i need to pay my harbour fees. Did someone say New Order? Unfortunately large record companies dont like giving you a shed load of cash only to watch you fuck off somewhere else to make another album,so have lost interest in promoting a band who haven't been around for 8 years.

Well,thanks Bernard. I hope Hooky puts you on yer arse while Steve gets a sly kick in while your on the deck!

And the cheeky cunt says Wilson ruined his life...

In the words of an old woman,fuckin liberty...

Anyone disagree?

Interesting, I need to think about it a little more though.

[magenta]shedmonite61[/magenta] wrote:

steveone wrote: Factory went under cos Getting Away With It was rather good and Bernard decided to dive straight into making the Electronic album instead of Republic,which had it been released 18months earlier would've saved Factory.

So in the long run Sumner has fucked everyone and ruined Factory,turned Republic into a PSB trbute album,forced the sale of back catalogue to London/Warners and left us with shit compilations & dodgy remixes ever since.

After Repugnet (sorry-Republic) came out he fucked off to make Raise the Pressure,which impressed George Michael so much he thought,fuck it lets make another one-Peter has Monaco now,an Steves got his tank.

Fast forward to 2001 and Twisted Twatness has bombed,oops-i need to pay my harbour fees. Did someone say New Order? Unfortunately large record companies dont like giving you a shed load of cash only to watch you fuck off somewhere else to make another album,so have lost interest in promoting a band who haven't been around for 8 years.

Well,thanks Bernard. I hope Hooky puts you on yer arse while Steve gets a sly kick in while your on the deck!

And the cheeky cunt says Wilson ruined his life...

In the words of an old woman,fuckin liberty...

Anyone disagree?

Interesting, I need to think about it a little more though.

Do you honestly have anything to contribute or must you be on the fence (or ignorant) with everything?

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

[magenta]shedmonite61[/magenta] wrote:

steveone wrote: Factory went under cos Getting Away With It was rather good and Bernard decided to dive straight into making the Electronic album instead of Republic,which had it been released 18months earlier would've saved Factory.

So in the long run Sumner has fucked everyone and ruined Factory,turned Republic into a PSB trbute album,forced the sale of back catalogue to London/Warners and left us with shit compilations & dodgy remixes ever since.

After Repugnet (sorry-Republic) came out he fucked off to make Raise the Pressure,which impressed George Michael so much he thought,fuck it lets make another one-Peter has Monaco now,an Steves got his tank.

Fast forward to 2001 and Twisted Twatness has bombed,oops-i need to pay my harbour fees. Did someone say New Order? Unfortunately large record companies dont like giving you a shed load of cash only to watch you fuck off somewhere else to make another album,so have lost interest in promoting a band who haven't been around for 8 years.

Well,thanks Bernard. I hope Hooky puts you on yer arse while Steve gets a sly kick in while your on the deck!

And the cheeky cunt says Wilson ruined his life...

In the words of an old woman,fuckin liberty...

Anyone disagree?

Interesting, I need to think about it a little more though.

Do you honestly have anything to contribute or must you be on the fence (or ignorant) with everything?

it is all about the post count.

NOOLigan wrote:

it is all about the post count.

Ooh the irony Ronnie! It's all about the pisstake actually.

For anyone who thinks im talking through my arse,i was only joking about everything being Bernards fault. I was having a laugh,although im pleased the thread has stirred such a response.

:D

Also, buying the new Factory headquarters just as the market bombed was foolish and the main reason behind the collapse

If only Tony Wilson was blessed with your Nostradamus-like powers of prediction...

If cashflow was an issue at the time (it propably was, given the Hacienda situation), then making a huge financial outlay (in the HQ or any project) might have been foolish, but you can hardly blame him for not knowing about macroeconomics and future investment trends.

I'll readily concede that if he bought the building knowing that property prices were about to fall and knowing that Factory could not meet the mortgage repayments, then that's not the smartest move. But is that likely? And how the hell would he have explained that to his mortgage lender?

"The market's going to tank but I'd like to buy this fantastic building. Please. " "Go ahead, Mr Wilson - you seem to know what you're doing. By the way, have you heard of the the Adventure Babies? They're the next big thing, I'll wager." "Really? Thanks for the advice, Mr Bank Manager. Any chance of a £1 million loan so I can sign them up?" "No worries. Have you tried any of this newfangled ecstasy? I've just dropped one - it appears to be laced with angel dust and cocaine. It certainly makes the working day go quicker."

El Jarvo wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Don't forget the Cath Carroll album England Made Me that cost £200,000 and sold 5 copies.

I have two of these.

So who's got the other one then?

Snorri xxx

i sold one last week in Vinyl Exchange,Manchester with a load of other stuff i haven't played for years.