Sales vs. Chart Pos.

So according to http://www.everyhit.co.uk, WFTSC charted to #5 while Movement charted to #30, and PCL charted at #4. What does it take to get into the top 10 these days? I suspect Movement sold more in its day...

Anyone in the know on actual sales figures for each album?

Dennis R http://www.factoryrecords.info

Dennis Remmer wrote: I suspect Movement sold more in its day...

Really??

I wasn't around for any of that, but it doesn't surprise me at all that Movement would've charted that low. There wasn't much selling it... whereas PCL probably sold more on the heels of Blue Monday and WFTSC was on a major and promoted like crazy.

Dennis Remmer wrote: So according to http://www.everyhit.co.uk, WFTSC charted to #5 while Movement charted to #30, and PCL charted at #4. What does it take to get into the top 10 these days? I suspect Movement sold more in its day...

Anyone in the know on actual sales figures for each album?

Dennis R http://www.factoryrecords.info

substance sold a million copies in the us,thats all i know!

I know a few years back someone posted the actual figures for both the BRITISH and AMERICAN albums.I was amazed at some of these at the time.MAybe SHUG has them written down in his homework diary!I will have a dig about though and see if i can find the THREAD. Regards ROCKET MICK

Yeah someone did post them, comparing them to Depeche Mode i think.

Just tried to search the site, but no luck

FrogChorus wrote: Yeah someone did post them, comparing them to Depeche Mode i think.

Just tried to search the site, but no luck

Hi Frog - try this for size from everyhit.com

Joy Division UK Top 40 Singles

13 Love Will Tear Us Apart Jun 1980
19 Love Will Tear Us Apart (re-entry) Oct 1983
34 Atmosphere Jun 1988
19 Love Will Tear Us Apart '95 (remix) Jun 1995

New Order UK Top 40 Singles

34 Ceremony Mar 1981 38 Procession / Everything's Gone Green Oct 1981
29 Temptation May 1982
12 Blue Monday Mar 1983 9 Blue Monday (re-entry) Aug 1983
12 Confusion Sep 1983
18 Thieves Like Us Apr 1984
28 Shellshock Mar 1986
30 State Of The Nation Sep 1986
4 True Faith Aug 1987
20 Touched By The Hand Of God Dec 1987
3 Blue Monday 88 (remix) May 1988 11 Fine Time Dec 1988
21 Round And Round Mar 1989 1 englandneworder - World In Motion Jun 1990
4 Regret Apr 1993
22 Ruined In A Day Jul 1993
13 World (The Price Of Love) Sep 1993
22 Spooky Dec 1993
9 True Faith 94 (remix) Nov 1994 21 1963 94 (remix) Jan 1995 17 Blue Monday 95 (Hardfloor remix) Aug 1995 8 Crystal Aug 2001
29 60 Miles An Hour Dec 2001
15 Here To Stay Apr 2002 8 Krafty Mar 2005
20 Jetstream - featuring Ana Matronic July 2005 21 Waiting For The Sirens' Call Oct 2005

Depeche Mode UK Top 40 Singles

11 New Life Jun 1981
8 Just Can't Get Enough Sep 1981
6 See You Feb 1982
12 The Meaning Of Love May 1982
18 Leave In Silence Aug 1982
13 Get The Balance Right Feb 1983
6 Everything Counts Jul 1983
21 Love In Itself.2 Oct 1983
4 People Are People Mar 1984
9 Master And Servant Sep 1984
16 Somebody / Blasphemous Rumours Nov 1984
18 Shake The Disease May 1985
18 It's Called A Heart Sep 1985
15 Stripped Feb 1986
28 A Question Of Lust Apr 1986
17 A Question Of Time Aug 1986
16 Strangelove May 1987
22 Never Let Me Down Again Sep 1987
21 Behind The Wheel Jan 1988
22 Everything Counts (re-issue) Feb 1989
13 Personal Jesus Sep 1989
6 Enjoy The Silence Feb 1990
16 Policy Of Truth May 1990
17 World In My Eyes Sep 1990
8 I Feel You Feb 1993
14 Walking In My Shoes May 1993
9 Condemnation Sep 1993
8 In Your Room Jan 1994
4 Barrel Of A Gun Feb 1997
5 It's No Good Apr 1997
23 Home Jun 1997
28 Useless Nov 1997
17 Only When I Lose Myself Sep 1998
6 Dream On May 2001
12 I Feel Loved Aug 2001
19 Freelove Nov 2001
7 Enjoy The Silence 04 Oct 2004
4 Precious Oct 2005
15 A Pain That I'm Used To Dec 2005
12 Suffer Well Apr 2006
18 John The Revelator/Lilian Jun 2006
13 Martyr Nov 2006

Joy Division UK Top 40 Albums

6 Closer Jul 1980
5 Still Oct 1981
7 1977-1980 Substance Jul 1988
16 Permanent: Joy Division 1995

New Order UK Top 40 Albums

30 Movement Nov 1981 4 Power, Corruption And Lies May 1983 7 Low-Life May 1985
9 Brotherhood Oct 1986 3 Substance Aug 1987 1 Technique Feb 1989 33 BBC Radio 1 Live In Concert Feb 1992 1 Republic May 1993 32 Substance 1987 (re-issue) Jul 1993 4 The Best Of New Order Dec 1994 5 The Best/The Rest Of New Order) (re-entry) Sep 1995 6 Get Ready Sep 2001
5 Waiting For The Sirens' Call Apr 2005 14 Singles Oct 2005

Depeche Mode's UK Top 40 Albums

10 Speak And Spell Nov 1981
8 A Broken Frame Oct 1982
6 Construction Time Again Sep 1983
5 Some Great Reward Oct 1984
6 The Singles 81-85 Oct 1985
4 Black Celebration Mar 1986
10 Music For The Masses Oct 1987
5 101 Mar 1989
2 Violator Mar 1990
1 Songs Of Faith And Devotion Apr 1993
1 Ultra Apr 1997
5 The Singles 86-98 Oct 1998
9 Exciter May 2001
24 Remixes 81-04 Nov 2004 Notes 6 Playing The Angel Oct 2005 Notes 18 The Best Of Depeche Mode Volume 1 Nov 2006

I like both bands - perhaps NO more than DM, this isn't a reflection of who is the 'best' and both bands have quite a lot of 'best of' in here and I hope this info helps. Cheers!

i've got an article from 2001 in Mojo magazine stating that they have sold around 20m albums worldwide before 'get ready' came out.

and that Substance is there biggest seller with 6m copies sold worldwide.

But can you believe a magazine? in the words of john Lydon

'the written word is a lie'

THIS WAS POSTED last time the question was asked!

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

FrogChorus wrote: Yeah someone did post them, comparing them to Depeche Mode i think.

Just tried to search the site, but no luck

Hi Frog - try this for size from everyhit.com

Joy Division UK Top 40 Singles

13 Love Will Tear Us Apart Jun 1980
19 Love Will Tear Us Apart (re-entry) Oct 1983
34 Atmosphere Jun 1988
19 Love Will Tear Us Apart '95 (remix) Jun 1995

New Order UK Top 40 Singles

34 Ceremony Mar 1981 38 Procession / Everything's Gone Green Oct 1981
29 Temptation May 1982
12 Blue Monday Mar 1983 9 Blue Monday (re-entry) Aug 1983
12 Confusion Sep 1983
18 Thieves Like Us Apr 1984
28 Shellshock Mar 1986
30 State Of The Nation Sep 1986
4 True Faith Aug 1987
20 Touched By The Hand Of God Dec 1987
3 Blue Monday 88 (remix) May 1988 11 Fine Time Dec 1988
21 Round And Round Mar 1989 1 englandneworder - World In Motion Jun 1990
4 Regret Apr 1993
22 Ruined In A Day Jul 1993
13 World (The Price Of Love) Sep 1993
22 Spooky Dec 1993
9 True Faith 94 (remix) Nov 1994 21 1963 94 (remix) Jan 1995 17 Blue Monday 95 (Hardfloor remix) Aug 1995 8 Crystal Aug 2001
29 60 Miles An Hour Dec 2001
15 Here To Stay Apr 2002 8 Krafty Mar 2005
20 Jetstream - featuring Ana Matronic July 2005 21 Waiting For The Sirens' Call Oct 2005

Depeche Mode UK Top 40 Singles

11 New Life Jun 1981
8 Just Can't Get Enough Sep 1981
6 See You Feb 1982
12 The Meaning Of Love May 1982
18 Leave In Silence Aug 1982
13 Get The Balance Right Feb 1983
6 Everything Counts Jul 1983
21 Love In Itself.2 Oct 1983
4 People Are People Mar 1984
9 Master And Servant Sep 1984
16 Somebody / Blasphemous Rumours Nov 1984
18 Shake The Disease May 1985
18 It's Called A Heart Sep 1985
15 Stripped Feb 1986
28 A Question Of Lust Apr 1986
17 A Question Of Time Aug 1986
16 Strangelove May 1987
22 Never Let Me Down Again Sep 1987
21 Behind The Wheel Jan 1988
22 Everything Counts (re-issue) Feb 1989
13 Personal Jesus Sep 1989
6 Enjoy The Silence Feb 1990
16 Policy Of Truth May 1990
17 World In My Eyes Sep 1990
8 I Feel You Feb 1993
14 Walking In My Shoes May 1993
9 Condemnation Sep 1993
8 In Your Room Jan 1994
4 Barrel Of A Gun Feb 1997
5 It's No Good Apr 1997
23 Home Jun 1997
28 Useless Nov 1997
17 Only When I Lose Myself Sep 1998
6 Dream On May 2001
12 I Feel Loved Aug 2001
19 Freelove Nov 2001
7 Enjoy The Silence 04 Oct 2004
4 Precious Oct 2005
15 A Pain That I'm Used To Dec 2005
12 Suffer Well Apr 2006
18 John The Revelator/Lilian Jun 2006
13 Martyr Nov 2006

Joy Division UK Top 40 Albums

6 Closer Jul 1980
5 Still Oct 1981
7 1977-1980 Substance Jul 1988
16 Permanent: Joy Division 1995

New Order UK Top 40 Albums

30 Movement Nov 1981 4 Power, Corruption And Lies May 1983 7 Low-Life May 1985
9 Brotherhood Oct 1986 3 Substance Aug 1987 1 Technique Feb 1989 33 BBC Radio 1 Live In Concert Feb 1992 1 Republic May 1993 32 Substance 1987 (re-issue) Jul 1993 4 The Best Of New Order Dec 1994 5 The Best/The Rest Of New Order) (re-entry) Sep 1995 6 Get Ready Sep 2001
5 Waiting For The Sirens' Call Apr 2005 14 Singles Oct 2005

Depeche Mode's UK Top 40 Albums

10 Speak And Spell Nov 1981
8 A Broken Frame Oct 1982
6 Construction Time Again Sep 1983
5 Some Great Reward Oct 1984
6 The Singles 81-85 Oct 1985
4 Black Celebration Mar 1986
10 Music For The Masses Oct 1987
5 101 Mar 1989
2 Violator Mar 1990
1 Songs Of Faith And Devotion Apr 1993
1 Ultra Apr 1997
5 The Singles 86-98 Oct 1998
9 Exciter May 2001
24 Remixes 81-04 Nov 2004 Notes 6 Playing The Angel Oct 2005 Notes 18 The Best Of Depeche Mode Volume 1 Nov 2006

I like both bands - perhaps NO more than DM, this isn't a reflection of who is the 'best' and both bands have quite a lot of 'best of' in here and I hope this info helps. Cheers!

Interesting. I hate how music is being judged nowadays. It wasn't until my Intro to Rock class that I realize that the charts really don't tell the whole story. Since I started college, I couldn't bear the mainstream anymore. I get a weekly entertainment magazine where there is a section on the U.S. Top 40. What a load of crap...

Anyway we should complete these sales with the online downloads. I think singles sell now more online than in shops. Anyway we're talking of millions of items now, so they do matter.

Mick Aneworderfan wrote: Anyway we should complete these sales with the online downloads. I think singles sell now more online than in shops. Anyway we're talking of millions of items now, so they do matter.

I do belive that official downloads are counted in single sales.

NOOLigan wrote:

Mick Aneworderfan wrote: Anyway we should complete these sales with the online downloads. I think singles sell now more online than in shops. Anyway we're talking of millions of items now, so they do matter.

I do belive that official downloads are counted in single sales.

Hi NOOLigan yes The Official UK Charts Company count official (legal) downloads as single sales in the UK Top 40. However this has been a negative thing IMO as downloads tend to be purchased by people into bubble-gum pop, boy/girl bands, 'cheesy' Dance Music, Rap/R&B (Rap & B*******) and Heavy Metal/c*** rock. These 'single sales' also include downloads of mobile phone ringtones and this has left quality/progressive Dance and Indie Music - mostly purchased on vinyl a much harder job to make it into even the lower reaches of the Top 40. Believe me quality singles by Moby, Royksopp, Ladytron, Tiga, Sander Kleineberg etc. haven't even charted but pratt's like Justin Timberlake currently has two singles in the Top 40 at the moment and tosh like Westlife get automatic number 1's which we all know have been hyped (fixed) by the major record companies into that position. Now we all know the major record companies have hyped s***e records into the charts - buying-in teams was a commonly employed tactic and denied many a quality record the top spot - Ultravox's Vienna for example. However downloads make it so easy for the major labels to fix the chart and stop progression within popular music culture as IMHO I don't see the next 'musical revolution' on the horizon at the moment. In this culture even New Order and Depeche Mode would struggle/are struggling to get into the Top 20 let alone Top 10 and I hope there are some Westlife fans on NOOL if so I'm glad I've offended your feelings LOL Cheers!

For those curious, here's Billboard's list of how NO albums charted in the US. I've always has an issue with how things chart in the US, because it's done by radio play, not sales, which seems to me to lend a distorted picture of things.

(sorry for the long link - they also have a tab on the left to see how their singles have charted)

link

But how many of those sales are still in MINTY MINT condition?

Snorri xxx

there are some nice new order images there though. just click on the little arrows and scroll through.

The problem is that the charts never reflect true sales, only sales for a period compared with the numbers of everything else in that period.

ie. an album can go straight to number 1 and then drop out of the charts after a few weeks. Another album can remain just outside of the Top 40 (for Australia) the Top 200 (for the US), but stay there for months. Most people would consider a number 1 a hit. But the album that hangs on the charts will outsell (generally) a "flash-in-the-pan".

To gain a better idea is to look at units shifted.

Swirling Eddy wrote: The problem is that the charts never reflect true sales, only sales for a period compared with the numbers of everything else in that period.

ie. an album can go straight to number 1 and then drop out of the charts after a few weeks. Another album can remain just outside of the Top 40 (for Australia) the Top 200 (for the US), but stay there for months. Most people would consider a number 1 a hit. But the album that hangs on the charts will outsell (generally) a "flash-in-the-pan".

To gain a better idea is to look at units shifted.

Our charts are bunkum anyway. In Oz they are based on units shipped to record shops. Nobody asks how many went back to the record company.

NOOLigan wrote:

Swirling Eddy wrote: The problem is that the charts never reflect true sales, only sales for a period compared with the numbers of everything else in that period.

ie. an album can go straight to number 1 and then drop out of the charts after a few weeks. Another album can remain just outside of the Top 40 (for Australia) the Top 200 (for the US), but stay there for months. Most people would consider a number 1 a hit. But the album that hangs on the charts will outsell (generally) a "flash-in-the-pan".

To gain a better idea is to look at units shifted.

Our charts are bunkum anyway. In Oz they are based on units shipped to record shops. Nobody asks how many went back to the record company.

Ouch! so that explains the mass appeal of ex-Neighbours stars like Steffan Dennis and Craig McLaughlin LOL! - and I thought our charts were s***e Cheers!

Snorrimon wrote: But how many of those sales are still in MINTY MINT condition?

Snorri xxx

So no Phillip Saville sleeves for fans of Razorlight etc. to look at then LOL! Cheers!

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

NOOLigan wrote:

Swirling Eddy wrote: The problem is that the charts never reflect true sales, only sales for a period compared with the numbers of everything else in that period.

ie. an album can go straight to number 1 and then drop out of the charts after a few weeks. Another album can remain just outside of the Top 40 (for Australia) the Top 200 (for the US), but stay there for months. Most people would consider a number 1 a hit. But the album that hangs on the charts will outsell (generally) a "flash-in-the-pan".

To gain a better idea is to look at units shifted.

Our charts are bunkum anyway. In Oz they are based on units shipped to record shops. Nobody asks how many went back to the record company.

Ouch! so that explains the mass appeal of ex-Neighbours stars like Steffan Dennis and Craig McLaughlin LOL! - and I thought our charts were s***e Cheers!

who?

it does explain how Australian Idol winners have number one records, but don't really have anything to show for it.

edit: hum that almost sounds like i care about idol winners. not so.

NOOLigan wrote: who?

LOL! BTW does anyone still watch Neighbours in Oz anymore. I caught an episode the other week and it made to far fetched Kath & Kim look like quality drama LOL, LOL! Cheers!

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

NOOLigan wrote: who?

LOL! BTW does anyone still watch Neighbours in Oz anymore. I caught an episode the other week and it made to far fetched Kath & Kim look like quality drama LOL, LOL! Cheers!

not as far as i know. i think it is only made for England nowadays. they still show it though.

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

NOOLigan wrote: I do belive that official downloads are counted in single sales.

Hi NOOLigan yes The Official UK Charts Company count official (legal) downloads as single sales in the UK Top 40. However this has been a negative thing IMO as downloads tend to be purchased by people into bubble-gum pop

True, I got confused because I saw somewhere a downloads chart separated from the official sales chart, but that doesn't mean the downloads aren't also counted in the sales chart (a bit like the indie chart was counted into the mainstream too), and actually I read Gnarls Barkley's Crazy, the most boring song of the year, got to the number one of the whole official chart just with the downloads sold before the release in shops, which is amazing. I'm moderately optimistic about the downloads, I think that making available such a wide range of music to everyone will bring benefits to alternative music. People who didn't buy singles from England because they didn't want to wait for the mail and spend money for postage now can buy the track on iTunes. It's good. The problem is tragically different. When I was 18 the people of my age were split like 70% were listening to mainstream chart music and the other 30% was into alternative stuff. Now alternative music is so crap (where are the new Pixies and the new My Bloody Valentines?) I think the very most of the youth (95%?) is into mainstream (and anyway a good share of the fake indie is mainstream itself). After all, Robbie Williams' cover of Lovelight is miles above any indie shit around today. Remember, drop in quality, drop in sales. Still, there are so many bands in the underground that hopefully something good will emerge, and the best thing with downloads is it'll be available to everyone with a few clicks. On a second thought, Broken Social Scene are a bit the new Pixies AND the new MBVs... give'em a chance.

"Considering how bad Factory was at marketing (I mean, singles should promote an album, releasing them outside of the album is not helping yourself! we might think it's cool, but it's a professional suicide!)"

Who cares if they didn't sell!!!!!!

The point of Factory was to produce art, not to shift as many bloody 'stock units' as possible. Singles were pieces of art, not just promotional devices.

The day they started caring about how many they sold was the day they committed artistic suicide.