PALATINE-the DEMISE of FACTORY?

Owning this set of 4 LPS and 4 CDs i thought i would give it yet another play to see if i REALLY missed out on any other good bands from the 1980's.Must admit that FACTORY did sign a lot of seriously CRAP bands!Any thoughts on this relic?. The bands i mean,not ME!

SHUG-have you still the box for the 4 cds and booklet you sent me through the post?I seem to remember you said you would bring it up next time you visited PLANET ROCKET.You never dared to return though!

Ended up with just the free video from HMV from that set.Cath Caroll and stuff

Marcel King's track featured on the set is worth a listen now and then .What's it called again?

I agree, there is a load of shite spread over the 4 discs, and there is very little commercially viable music. What NO made went into supporting the Hacienda, and the Mondays just sniffed it up their noses, its little wonder factory went bust. Still, we are left with an enduring legacy and fantastic memories...........

Factory was very over-rated if we're truthful. Im not saying they weren't important,just over-rated. Up until Happy Mondays the only major thing was JD/NO.

The fact (excuse the pun!) that they could have been bigger than Mute,Hut or even Creation now must knock Tony Wilson sick. Turning down a dance record that spent about 3 months at number one (the end result DeConstruction becoming the biggest dance label in britain for over 10 years) and knocking back a certain Oasis.

I'd love to know who else they turned down that ended up being massive,Stone Roses maybe?,808 State?,Charlatans?

It is truly fucking frightening how big Factory could have been-with New Order the foundation of it all.

Johnny wrote: Ended up with just the free video from HMV from that set.Cath Caroll and stuff

Marcel King's track featured on the set is worth a listen now and then .What's it called again?

Reach for Love... produced by B Music... I think it was Shaun Ryder who said that was the best dance track of the 1980s.

It's not all bad stuff. I like the Barney-produced dance tracks like Looking from a Hilltop and Cool as Ice. I really like ACR, especially their early stuff like Do the Du and Flight. Some of the stuff on disc 3 is really good, too, like Time Goes By So Slow and Railway Children's Brighter... nice catchy tunes.

But yeah there's some dodgy tracks there as well. All in all a nice eclectic mix.

Steve wrote: Turning down a dance record that spent about 3 months at number one (the end result DeConstruction becoming the biggest dance label in britain for over 10 years)

Curious... what record are you referring to?

Black Box - Ride On Time

Factory wasn't about making money it was about being independent, doing things their own way and not having to deal with all the bullshit that drags the rest of the music industry into the gutter. For the most part they were very succesful in doing this and it was only because they got sidetracked into The Hacienda fiasco that they went down.

As for other bands, well Durutti Column, Section 25, The Wake and ACR all had some great albums although it's fair to say that the overall quality fell away severely around 83/84.

Steve wrote: I'd love to know who else they turned down that ended up being massive,Stone Roses maybe?,808 State?,Charlatans?

808 were deciding between three labels: Factory (Biting Tongues used to be signed to them), WAU! Mr Modo (Orb's record label) and ZTT. ZTT impressed them, due to their current/back catalogue at the time (e.g. Art Of Noise, Propaganda, etc), and so they decided to sign to ZTT.

Yeah, Factory could have taken on a lot of the dance-related bands, and as a result that they were unwilling to do so, Mike Pickering started deConstruction, who were very successful in the late 80's/early 90's when acid house hit the big time...

Ah well...

Sure a lot of Palatine now sounds seriously dated. But then let's remember most of it is 20 to 25 years old now. At the time this was pretty cutting edge pop music and by the standards of the time quality music. The following albums are timeless classics:-

The Durutti Column - "The Return of The Durutti Column"

Section 25 - "From the Hip" ("Inspiration" the best New Order track not by New Order ever).

and I even have a soft spot for...

Crispy Ambulance - "The Plateau Phase" (dig the monumental Martin Hannett production of "The Presence" on the LTM reissue CD).

Steve wrote:

I'd love to know who else they turned down that ended up being massive.

The Smiths!

Steve wrote: Factory was very over-rated if we're truthful. Im not saying they weren't important,just over-rated. Up until Happy Mondays the only major thing was JD/NO.

The fact (excuse the pun!) that they could have been bigger than Mute,Hut or even Creation now must knock Tony Wilson sick. Turning down a dance record that spent about 3 months at number one (the end result DeConstruction becoming the biggest dance label in britain for over 10 years) and knocking back a certain Oasis.

I'd love to know who else they turned down that ended up being massive,Stone Roses maybe?,808 State?,Charlatans?

It is truly fucking frightening how big Factory could have been-with New Order the foundation of it all.

jamie fairlie wrote: Factory wasn't about making money it was about being independent, doing things their own way and not having to deal with all the bullshit that drags the rest of the music industry into the gutter. For the most part they were very succesful in doing this and it was only because they got sidetracked into The Hacienda fiasco that they went down.

As for other bands, well Durutti Column, Section 25, The Wake and ACR all had some great albums although it's fair to say that the overall quality fell away severely around 83/84.

You can talk for hours about Factory and their history is inspiring and frustrating to anyone who is interested in British indie music. Their viewpoint of allowing artists 'total creative freedom musically and if they wanted to f*** off' was commercial suicide. However would JD/NO and to a lesser extent Happy Mondays, ACR and Durutti Column have had the musical adventures they had on Factory if they had been signed to an 'indie' like Mute, Rough Trade or Beggars Banquet for example let alone a major? True Factory was completely naïve when it came to understanding the business side of the music industry and the avalanche of debt the Hacienda accumulated, the Blue Monday sleeve debacle, the 'ivory tower' office in Manchester city centre and other f*** up's destroyed them in the end. Yes they should have signed The Smiths, Stone Roses, 808 State and possibly Oasis and the comparable example of Mute Records and the business like approach of Daniel Miller is perhaps the way Factory should have been run in hindsight. However they're the only record label who truly never 'sold out' and their own way of doing things changed the music business, popular music and youth culture beyond Manchester for the better IMO.

Nick King wrote:

Steve wrote: I'd love to know who else they turned down that ended up being massive,Stone Roses maybe?,808 State?,Charlatans?

808 were deciding between three labels: Factory (Biting Tongues used to be signed to them), WAU! Mr Modo (Orb's record label) and ZTT. ZTT impressed them, due to their current/back catalogue at the time (e.g. Art Of Noise, Propaganda, etc), and so they decided to sign to ZTT.

Yeah, Factory could have taken on a lot of the dance-related bands, and as a result that they were unwilling to do so, Mike Pickering started deConstruction, who were very successful in the late 80's/early 90's when acid house hit the big time...

Ah well...

Hi Nick I was chatting to you about 808 State at the Digital gig in Camden. I agree with you that even before Acid House/Rave went massive in 1988/89 Factory with their Hacienda, Eastern Bloc, Mike Pickering, Graeme Park and John Da Silva connections for sure had the capability to be seriously involved in the scene and Black Box, 808 State/A Guy Called Gerald, Sub Sub (Doves) and others could have added to the New Order/Happy Mondays/Madchester wave they were riding at the time. However given the fast paced/throwaway nature of Dance music, Factory's notorious disorganisation and the interest of London Records/FFRR, DeConstruction, Mute - via Rhythm King, Outer Rhythm and Novamute, Junior Boys Own, Warp, XL Recordings, Network, React, Ministry Of Sound, Cream and the majors in British Dance Music would Factory have been able to develop the music in the way that it did develop? - namely the snapshot of youth culture at that point in time! Cheers!