Collaborations on the last two LPs - a good thing or not?

Certainly not 'any old twat'- Anamatronic was a bad bad choice...

Things like 'Rock The Shack' and 'Here to Stay' show that it can work... although I know many people hate Shack.

Overall a healthy thing, but quality control required!

shite, natch

Instead of working with a vocal or guitar-based collaborator I'd love to see them work with someone like Rex The Dog, Richard X, or Martin Buttrich who seem to have a firm grasp on NO's early electro sound. The Chems got close with Here To Stay, but I think the secret to New Order having another massive hit single would be for them to look backward, not forward. Give us a song that's nothing but vintage synths, sequencers, and Hooky.

Utter pants man

It depends on who's collaborating, in my opinion. I liked the Chemical Brothers co-producing (or producing) "Here to Stay". But, I really didn't like Ana Matronic on "Jetstream" and Billy Corgan on the Get Ready album.

£50 Note wrote: Give us a song that's nothing but vintage synths, sequencers, and Hooky.

leather_girl wrote: It depends on who's collaborating, in my opinion. I liked the Chemical Brothers co-producing (or producing) "Here to Stay". But, I really didn't like Ana Matronic on "Jetstream" and Billy Corgan on the Get Ready album.

tough titties!!

BIGINOIL wrote:

£50 Note wrote: Give us a song that's nothing but vintage synths, sequencers, and Hooky.

we could do with a new BLT/TPK. WFTSC just didn't cut it.

Pure coincidence that on the albums, the collaborations were the weakest tracks?

Anyway, I thought the Chems had produced Here To Stay, not wirtten it! I may be wrong, mind.

The worst bit? The bloody 'Featuring Ana Matronic' sticker on the front of the Jetstream single.

I don't think that the Chems were in the same room as NO for any of the sessions. Barney about said as much on the Chems DVD.

JET is one of my favourite songs and I feel sure Matronic was a big influence in the feel of the song.

So that's nice.

BIGINKRONIE

Turn My Way would never be good if anyone had recorded it, including New Order. Not one of their finer efforts. Bland MOR poop.

Spotnick wrote:

Rock The Shack sounds better on In Sessions, so I guess this was an error.

That's a good point.

You win £40

oldmonkey wrote: Pure coincidence that on the albums, the collaborations were the weakest tracks?

Anyway, I thought the Chems had produced Here To Stay, not wirtten it! I may be wrong, mind.

Thats debatable and a matter of opinion. I actually like Jetstream now. I use to be indifferent towards it but I actually think its an alright tune. I prefer it to GIAUE (which to me has got tiresome early doors).

As for Get Ready, I love Turn My Way. Its a strong song and got a great hook. It maybe that Barney overstretches himself a little (but it wouldnt be the only song he does). Rock The Shack is abit pony. Loveshack by B52's was a better shack song (IMO).

I also enjoyed the collaborations Barney did with Pet Shop Boys on Electronic. Patience of A Saint is sublime and Getting Away With It was also a cracking tune.

So to sum up, I voted "yes" to collaborations being a good thing. I wouldnt want any Tom, Dick or Harry on board though. Noel Gallagher or Shaun Rider could maybe offer something interesting to the NO sound but I doubt Lily Allen or Kaiser Chiefs singer could.

And as long as its only the odd track then Im all for it. I think its good of NO to try different things with different artists. Makes them abit less insular and more embracing.

Not arsed if they do or don't really..If the song is good,and has a colaberator on, it's all tickety boo by me..Please themselves

However,they have all been pretty poor,save for JET which is a classic...

lump of gay shat!

I think Turn My Way is great,dont care for Reek Of Shit (Rock The Shack) or Here To Stay. But these songs are the sound of post millenium New Order and thats that.

I'll just pull myself up and say not all collaberations have been bad...Here to Stay is a good un. But is the original done with the Chems? Fucked if I know now

ally wrote: Forgot World In Motion with Lily Allen's dad.

What a shower of shit and I know Shug agrees

Forgot that an all..Though I disagree,cos it's good!

Who'd have thought Digger Barnes would be a welcome guest vocalist?

I voted yes, only because if makes NO enjoy being in the studio making music, it's better than nothing. My fav of the collaborations is Jetstream, which as I understand was already fully formed before Ana Matronic's vocals got overlaid.

I like better the idea of collaborations that didn't come through on the last two albums, like Brian Eno and Jerry Lee Lewis.

The general problem with the collaborations is they try too hard to sound better than NO's solo output. Here To Stay is the only one that has really worked and to be fair it was more of a solo tune anyway. The Chem's also understood how to apply NO's electronic/Dance style to their own as already evidenced by their own collaboration with Bernard on the dogs b******'s Out Of Control. The other collaborations are okay-ish but they seem to lack energy/the inexplicable thing which makes NO so special and maybe they'd have been better off as B-sides. Turn My Way is good-ish but surprisingly given Billy Corgan's Smashing Pumpkins past it lacks get-up-and go. Rock The Shack seems like a boozed up, jam session with everyone seemingly having a good time and I personally have enjoyed the track when I'm equally boozed up. However Bobby Gillespie's involvement is to return the favour for Bernard for helping out on XTMTR and although likeable it sounds more like a 'thrown together' Primal Scream record to me. Jetstream is the one you like (not love) or absolutely loathe. IMO it's a reasonable pop track but the collaboration with Ana Matronic smacks 'flavour of the month' and would have been something NO would have baulked at even around the time of Republic let alone their Factory hey day. It's not all negative though as like what you mention Bernard's Electronic collaborations with PSB, Karl Bartos and Arthur Baker reaped interesting results and there is always the possibility of NO collaborating with someone who helps them to put something together which blows you away and brings new ideas to the NO party. Furthermore who I am to judge as although I'm a fan I'm not a musician and most likely I wouldn't be able to do any better in the overall creative process. Any thoughts? Cheers!

ally wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: Anyway, I thought the Chems had produced Here To Stay, not wirtten it! I may be wrong, mind.

Do pay attention 007!

I said "writing, production or performance"

I wasn't questioning your inclusion of it! I was questioning my own generalisation that all the collaborations are shit, and to my mind it could be excused if they had only produced it and not performed on it or had a hand in the writing of it.

3 to 1 against with only the Brothers coming out favourably.

Corgan certainly should never have collaborated with NO - fcuked his career right up - he's done bugger all since... They should get Frank Sidebottom on guest vocals next...

Snorri xxx

I personally love the idea,it's just the actual execution hasn't worked has it really? It's a 50% success rate tho'...Turn My Way & Here To Stay being fine,Shat The Rock & Shitstream being pants.Considering the wealth of worshipping talent that N.O. could choose from,& I do mean choose from,the possibilities of potential quality collaborations are,& should be,endless.

£50 Note wrote: Instead of working with a vocal or guitar-based collaborator I'd love to see them work with someone like Rex The Dog, Richard X, or Martin Buttrich who seem to have a firm grasp on NO's early electro sound. The Chems got close with Here To Stay, but I think the secret to New Order having another massive hit single would be for them to look backward, not forward. Give us a song that's nothing but vintage synths, sequencers, and Hooky.

Yep

Depends. HTS was good but the rest were pretty forgettable.

Alan Paul Kitching wrote: The general problem with the collaborations is they try too hard to sound better than NO's solo output. Here To Stay is the only one that has really worked and to be fair it was more of a solo tune anyway. The Chem's also understood how to apply NO's electronic/Dance style to their own as already evidenced by their own collaboration with Bernard on the dogs b******'s Out Of Control. The other collaborations are okay-ish but they seem to lack energy/the inexplicable thing which makes NO so special and maybe they'd have been better off as B-sides. Turn My Way is good-ish but surprisingly given Billy Corgan's Smashing Pumpkins past it lacks get-up-and go. Rock The Shack seems like a boozed up, jam session with everyone seemingly having a good time and I personally have enjoyed the track when I'm equally boozed up. However Bobby Gillespie's involvement is to return the favour for Bernard for helping out on XTMTR and although likeable it sounds more like a 'thrown together' Primal Scream record to me. Jetstream is the one you like (not love) or absolutely loathe. IMO it's a reasonable pop track but the collaboration with Ana Matronic smacks 'flavour of the month' and would have been something NO would have baulked at even around the time of Republic let alone their Factory hey day. It's not all negative though as like what you mention Bernard's Electronic collaborations with PSB, Karl Bartos and Arthur Baker reaped interesting results and there is always the possibility of NO collaborating with someone who helps them to put something together which blows you away and brings new ideas to the NO party. Furthermore who I am to judge as although I'm a fan I'm not a musician and most likely I wouldn't be able to do any better in the overall creative process. Any thoughts? Cheers!

OK, which bastard stole the RETURN key from APK's keyboard

Snorrimon wrote: They should get Frank Sidebottom on guest vocals next...

He was on the Podge&Rodge show here this week

he's still not funny tho

I really hate using Madonna as an example but she did blow up the charts with that Hung Up song. Young producers with young ears can do interesting things with elder musicstatesmen at times.

I think they ought to get some young producer to breathe some life back into things. Not necessarily a guest vocalist or a gaggle of session musicians ( ) but some seriously green blood that has been fed this brand of music since they were tykes. Someone who knows it inside out but can bring a flavor that enhances the album to be just-that-much-more-awesome.

A collaboration with DMX Krew has been one of those things I've thought could be cool. If Justin Timberlake could bring some gold nugget of greatness to a NO album I'd be all for it, though I just saw Bernard singing SexyBack in my head and felt a little ill.

I don't want to see another Jetstream. I heard it in an elevator the other day and that (finally) sealed its fate in my eyes. 20 stories of J-E-T. Yeah.

Leggy D wrote:

Alan Paul Kitching wrote: The general problem with the collaborations is they try too hard to sound better than NO's solo output. Here To Stay is the only one that has really worked and to be fair it was more of a solo tune anyway. The Chem's also understood how to apply NO's electronic/Dance style to their own as already evidenced by their own collaboration with Bernard on the dogs b******'s Out Of Control. The other collaborations are okay-ish but they seem to lack energy/the inexplicable thing which makes NO so special and maybe they'd have been better off as B-sides. Turn My Way is good-ish but surprisingly given Billy Corgan's Smashing Pumpkins past it lacks get-up-and go. Rock The Shack seems like a boozed up, jam session with everyone seemingly having a good time and I personally have enjoyed the track when I'm equally boozed up. However Bobby Gillespie's involvement is to return the favour for Bernard for helping out on XTMTR and although likeable it sounds more like a 'thrown together' Primal Scream record to me. Jetstream is the one you like (not love) or absolutely loathe. IMO it's a reasonable pop track but the collaboration with Ana Matronic smacks 'flavour of the month' and would have been something NO would have baulked at even around the time of Republic let alone their Factory hey day. It's not all negative though as like what you mention Bernard's Electronic collaborations with PSB, Karl Bartos and Arthur Baker reaped interesting results and there is always the possibility of NO collaborating with someone who helps them to put something together which blows you away and brings new ideas to the NO party. Furthermore who I am to judge as although I'm a fan I'm not a musician and most likely I wouldn't be able to do any better in the overall creative process. Any thoughts? Cheers!

OK, which bastard stole the RETURN key from APK's keyboard

LOL! Cheers Leggy!

I've changed my mind about collaborations since Jetstream. I've not been too fussed about them before, whatever takes their fancy, but to have that woman perform with them now that has left me with some serious mental scars

melly wrote: I really hate using Madonna as an example but she did blow up the charts with that Hung Up song. Young producers with young ears can do interesting things with elder musicstatesmen at times.

Some bad news for you on that one melly. Stuart Price who produced Confessions Of A Dance floor also produced Jetstream and to say his involvement with NO was a disappointment was an understatement given his previous Jacques Lu Cont/Les Rhythmes Digitals production work. He is a very good Dance producer and could do interesting things with NO in the future but the main problem with his involvement here was the low tempo of Jetstream didn't really suit his high tempo style of production.

melly wrote: I think they ought to get some young producer to breathe some life back into things. Not necessarily a guest vocalist or a gaggle of session musicians ( ) but some seriously green blood that has been fed this brand of music since they were tykes. Someone who knows it inside out but can bring a flavor that enhances the album to be just-that-much-more-awesome.

An interesting name that NO could hook up with is Ewan Pearson who is on Slam's Electro/Tech House label Soma. He's been making good noises on the Electro Dance scene both in his own right and in remix work for Depeche Mode, Goldfrapp, The Chems, Slam, Royksopp to name a few and could be interesting in the terms of a NO's electro/Dancier output.

melly wrote: A collaboration with DMX Krew has been one of those things I've thought could be cool. If Justin Timberlake could bring some gold nugget of greatness to a NO album I'd be all for it, though I just saw Bernard singing SexyBack in my head and felt a little ill.

No, no, no, no, no & NO! LOL! Cheers!

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

melly wrote: I really hate using Madonna as an example but she did blow up the charts with that Hung Up song. Young producers with young ears can do interesting things with elder musicstatesmen at times.

Some bad news for you on that one melly. Stuart Price who produced Confessions Of A Dance floor also produced Jetstream and to say his involvement with NO was a disappointment was an understatement given his previous Jacques Lu Cont/Les Rhythmes Digitals production work. He is a very good Dance producer and could do interesting things with NO in the future but the main problem with his involvement here was the low tempo of Jetstream didn't really suit his high tempo style of production.

An interesting name that NO could hook up with is Ewan Pearson who is on Slam's Electro/Tech House label Soma. He's been making good noises on the Electro Dance scene both in his own right and in remix work for Depeche Mode, Goldfrapp, The Chems, Slam, Royksopp to name a few and could be interesting in the terms of a NO's electro/Dancier output.

It's a sure sign I was posting late in the morning to forget about his 'contribution' to Jet.. strike that. But, young nonetheless.. maybe not him, but someone surely. I like your idea of Pearson, too, as I've been hearing more and more about him and enjoy the work I've heard so far. Someone I was talking to last night said they should get with Ladytron or (a bit left field) Stuart Murdoch of Belle & Sebastian . Dunno if I could wrap my head around a Stuart Murdoch produced NO single. Might have worked for something like Love Vigilantes but still a bit off the side to really make me believe that's a good idea.

Is Rollo Armstrong looking for work?

No collaboration for me. New Order is better than anyone else, they don't need others to help with their music. Except for a few rare exceptions, I even don't like it when others produce New Order's songs. The majority of my all time favourite NO songs are produced by New Order and none other.

Get Liam Howlett.