Murder (at the theater) ?

Does anyone know which NO 'song,circa 84, was once called Murder at the theater ???? was it, simply, Murder ? I used to think (but where did i see it a long time ago) it was TLU working title ??? Thought it had been played ay the fall of 1983,live in Brixton academy - But it seems that i'm wrong ... But anyway i don't think i've imagined this song name. It has been used somewhere or someday by NO. Old Monkey, can u help me?:D

Can't say I've ever heard this one before until it was posted earlier today in a different thread. All the tapes that came through in 1983 and 1984 had working titles on them for the new songs that were being played, and this wasn't one of them. Obviously Murder was never played live, Thieves Like Us was always called that, and none of the other songs written 1983/84 were called anything like that at any stage.

Mad Cyril wrote: Can't say I've ever heard this one before until it was posted earlier today in a different thread. All the tapes that came through in 1983 and 1984 had working titles on them for the new songs that were being played, and this wasn't one of them. Obviously Murder was never played live, Thieves Like Us was always called that, and none of the other songs written 1983/84 were called anything like that at any stage.

yes. It's a mystery.

Well the debut at that Brixton gig was 'Sooner Than You Think'. On a vinyl bootleg it was called 'Aleph', though I think that was someone's made-up thing.

johnny james wrote: Well the debut at that Brixton gig was 'Sooner Than You Think'. On a vinyl bootleg it was called 'Aleph', though I think that was someone's made-up thing.

One of the early boots I had listed 'Sooner than you think' as 'Three Angels' but I ahve always assumed that ways just made up by the taper, rather than an official working title.

johnny james wrote: Well the debut at that Brixton gig was 'Sooner Than You Think'. On a vinyl bootleg it was called 'Aleph', though I think that was someone's made-up thing.

I ve also got a bootleg with "Aleph" on it,

I'll dig it out when i get home,and see what gig it is

I remember reading somewhere that STYT was 'called' Aleph at first, as the intro to early versions sounded rather 'eastern'... Probably a load of bollocks, but there you go...

Snorri xxx

It was called Aleph by the bootlegger on the Brixton Academy 83 debut performance tape, but changed to "new one" by the time of the next appearance in April 84 (though it was a different taper in a different country).

The reason the intro sounded "eastern" was because Gillian had the great grandmother of all cock-ups when trying to play the start notes (she was ever so slightly tipsy that night, and could hardly do a thing!).

Ah, so I wasn't imagining it... Cheers, Tim...

Snorri xxx

El Jarvo wrote: Have mentioned this here before, but I definitely once saw a bootleg with Aleph as A.L.E.P.H and an explanation as to the meaning of the song title (the P.H. stood for Peter Hook).

Can't for the life of me remember what the other three words were though?!

Ale, of course! :D

Sooner than you think (or was it Face Up?) was also called 'The Japanese One' on a boot I had years ago - maybe was the Vinyl Solution one taped at the Mayfair Suite in Newcastle August 1984? Feck, how the hell can I remember that from 20 years ago and I can't remember what I had for tea on Sunday?

Mad Cyril wrote: It was called Aleph by the bootlegger on the Brixton Academy 83 debut performance tape, but changed to "new one" by the time of the next appearance in April 84 (though it was a different taper in a different country).

The reason the intro sounded "eastern" was because Gillian had the great grandmother of all cock-ups when trying to play the start notes (she was ever so slightly tipsy that night, and could hardly do a thing!).

From all accounts I've read about that Brixton gig, all of them were fairly ratarsed pissed(getting Slim thier roadie on to sing the Blue Monday/Love Reaction thing was deffo the product of booze-addled braincells)

five hates six wrote: Sooner than you think (or was it Face Up?) was also called 'The Japanese One' on a boot I had years ago - maybe was the Vinyl Solution one taped at the Mayfair Suite in Newcastle August 1984? Feck, how the hell can I remember that from 20 years ago and I can't remember what I had for tea on Sunday?

Face Up was called the Japanese One by a bootlegger. Sunderland, not Newcastle though!

gazman wrote:

johnny james wrote: Well the debut at that Brixton gig was 'Sooner Than You Think'. On a vinyl bootleg it was called 'Aleph', though I think that was someone's made-up thing.

I ve also got a bootleg with "Aleph" on it,

I'll dig it out when i get home,and see what gig it is

Brixton 1 Dec '83 is the one ive got,

only got the first 7 tracks though

And noone really answer me ???? I do think NO once used this title, even if it hasn't been written... I 've probably read it in an old interview around feb 84...If my memory is good. But, maybe , it's just a working title for murder ???? Or: supposons.... Le groupe a trouvé le titre Thieves like us, pendant la tournée US (right?) But: They were working on the song before that day ??? Heu, non, paraît qu'ils ont eu le titre avant la chanson! Oh ,Merde! No, it's not the truth... Anyway i've read it somewhere - a long long time ago- Maybe from the talkative Hooky...

Thieves Like Us was written immediately before the US 83 tour, in the rehearsal room, and was knocked into shape during that tour. The title came from a spraying on a wall, can't remember which city it was in.

Murder was written at the end of 1982/start of 1983 along with the tracks that made up PC&L. It was left off the album for reasons only known to the band, but had been titled by the time PC&L came out, as they referred to it in the groove run-off (or was that on Blue Monday or Confusion?).

I've certainly never seen or heard any references to Murder In The Theatre or suchlike, not from Feb 84 or any other time. I stand corrected though as always.

Mad Cyril wrote: Thieves Like Us was written immediately before the US 83 tour, in the rehearsal room, and was knocked into shape during that tour. The title came from a spraying on a wall, can't remember which city it was in.

...but maybe inspired by the film of the same title, right? The one by Robert Altman.

To that end "Murder At The Theatre" would at least make sense as a working title for Murder since it incorporates sampled dialogue from films - and films that involve killing, no less!

£50 Note wrote:

Mad Cyril wrote: Thieves Like Us was written immediately before the US 83 tour, in the rehearsal room, and was knocked into shape during that tour. The title came from a spraying on a wall, can't remember which city it was in.

...but maybe inspired by the film of the same title, right? The one by Robert Altman.

To that end "Murder At The Theatre" would at least make sense as a working title for Murder since it incorporates sampled dialogue from films - and films that involve killing, no less!

I've always thought that TLU was inspired by the movie.

Murder at the theater = wt for murder . yes, finally that's the closest thing to the truth

For the record the working title for 'Face Up' was genuinely 'Japanesy One'. The bootlegger may have got it from a setlist.

i know that the samples on murder are from 2001: a space odyssey and caligula... that's about it...

Mad Cyril wrote: Murder was written at the end of 1982/start of 1983 along with the tracks that made up PC&L. It was left off the album for reasons only known to the band, but had been titled by the time PC&L came out, as they referred to it in the groove run-off (or was that on Blue Monday or Confusion?).

You were right Tim Where's Murder? groove notation is on PC&L B-side, that means Murder was left off.

Two points.

First, a recollection. I remember reading a letter in Smash Hits (of all places) just after the release of Power, Corruption and Lies. The reader wanted details of a New Order track called Murder, which they had heard featured the computer HAL 9000 from the film "2001: A Space Odyssey."

The reply which was printed confirmed that the band had recorded a track of that title, but reported that nobody at Factory had heard anything about HAL's contribution.

At the time, I thought nothing of this, but when FBN 22 was released, I figured that the Factory denial printed in Smash Hits was probably just to avoid any legal trouble.

My second point concerns the mooted working title of Murder, and it's a simple one. Nobody from anywhere in the UK would refer to "the theater" - certainly not with that spelling - unless they meant a place where plays are staged. In the UK, movies (or, more often, "films") are shown at "the cinema" or "the pictures."

So, whoever coined the phrase "Murder at the Theater," it wasn't one of the band.