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It's long been suspected that FAC 133 doesn't sport a Peter Saville sleeve because he hated the revamped Sub-culture as much as did many fans (self included) at the time.
The years haven't softened my attitude to FAC 133. I still prefer the version on Low-life, or even the version that was given away on the Record Mirror EP.
But has Peter Saville ever gone on record about this issue?
Come to that, has anyone ever asked him about it directly?
I could be wrong but I'm sure I've read somewhere that Peter Saville hated the mixes so much that he refused to design a sleeve 
But whether he actually said it, is a different thing altogther! 
Yup, I second the motion. i did also read it somewhere that Peter Saville refused to do the cover for this sleeve, and I just found out where I read it.
From wikipedia (Sub-culture):
The mix (by John Robie) is different from the one that appears on the album. "Sub-culture" has only a regular black sleeve, as graphic designer Peter Saville reportedly deemed the mix of the song unworthy of his talents.
Personally, I find the mix not that bad, and definitely not good either. I love the Exclusive Remix and the 3 Razormaid remixes, especially the Deborah Lyall Mix. I'm just wondering until now, who did the female vocals for the Deborah Lyall Mix. Also the second male vocal.
Going back to John Robbie, I feel bad for him. His two mixes of New Order, Subculture and Shellshock respectively, are the least-liked New Order remixes. So that makes me wonder, are all John Robbie mixes in that style? Any other John Robbie remixes out there?
I thought that the real reason was that he (Saville) was on holiday and because of the usual Factory mix up, there wasn't time to get a sleeve done and he just said either get someone else to do it or release it in a black sleeve and say I designed it. After all, WIFM had a 'Saville Associates' sleeve and he couldn't have LIKED WIFM now, could he? Oh come on, he couldn't... 
So, what it's coming down to is that we really can't find any direct quote from Peter Saville to support the theory that he didn't design a sleeve because he didn't like the record.
Despite not liking the single version, I did suspect that most of the time a designer would probably be working on a sleeve at the same time that the record was being made, so that everything was ready to go together.
I can't imagine anyone having to submit their new mixes to their design department for approval!
David Gladwin wrote: I can't imagine anyone having to submit their new mixes to their design department for approval!
so, NOW you are starting to get a feel for the way things 'worked' in Factory
Yes... that's how things 'worked' for FAC. Song first before sleeve. For me it makes sense.
Also, Peter Saville is an artist. You know how artist are. They wouldn't do something to something that he doesn't like. Get it?
Chris Nash wrote: I thought that the real reason was that he (Saville) was on holiday and because of the usual Factory mix up, there wasn't time to get a sleeve done and he just said either get someone else to do it or release it in a black sleeve and say I designed it.
That sounds far more plausible to me.
has hew ever said he's listened to ant of the songs before designing the sleeve - sure he said he hadn't.
hibster wrote: has hew ever said he's listened to ant of the songs before designing the sleeve - sure he said he hadn't.
Regardless of what's been said above, I just can't see that it ever happened that way - "Here's our next song, Mr Saville. Would you like to design a sleeve for it?" That approach would have taken even longer than Factory could have managed!
And even if they did do that, the designer would have ideas ready anyway - things he'd been working on, ideas he'd been kicking around. To assume that PS just worked on material that he liked the sound of is to assume that he sat around doing nowt the rest of the time!
Since when has the sleeve necessarily had anything to do with the song?
Subculture wasn't really part of the long or even mid-term schedule, it was released as an off-the-cuff release because they had the mixes and wanted to do something with them. I was surprised they didn't give it to Benelux, Crepuscule or something similar.
Sub-Cultured wrote: Going back to John Robbie, I feel bad for him. His two mixes of New Order, Subculture and Shellshock respectively, are the least-liked New Order remixes. So that makes me wonder, are all John Robbie mixes in that style? Any other John Robbie remixes out there?
Yashar!
Top Cabs read here: Cabs on The Wire
Her's the bit about Robie:
Chris Watson's departure from the group, together with Stevo's intervention in their business affairs, may have acted as catalysts for CV's redefinition and crossover, but an interest in the possibilities of that change was already establishing itself. Back in 1982, word came from New York that John Robie, who had worked with Afrika Bambaataa and Arthur Baker on the electro funk classic "Planet Rock", was interested in remixing "Yashar", from The Cabs' 2x45 EP on Rough Trade, for possible release on the Tommy Boy label. "I love this track, but you guys don't know what you're doing here," Robie told Kirk and Mallinder. "Let me remix it." Reluctant to have him remodel something from their back catalogue, CV offered Robie two specially recorded tracks to work with, "Diskono" and "Gut Level", which he rejected outright, describing them as "New wave disco" rather than the pared-down dance number he had in mind.
What lay behind Robie's discernment was an awareness of how the 12" format could extend the structures and broaden the dynamics of dance music. After the great vinyl shortages of the mid-70s, resulting in the kind of rigid industry standards that punk had rebelled against, the market was awash with a flood of the stuff. By 1980, records were available in just about every shape, size and colour, but it was the newly popularised 12" single, with its running time of eight to ten minutes, that was the most exciting. As its title suggests, 2x45 was an early experiment in putting this template to use. Through his two remixes of "Yashar", eventually released on Factory, Robie took that experimentation to the next stage. "What Robie did with that track," Kirk explained, "showed us what the possibilities of 12" mixes were. You could strip back the music to its basic elements and it would work better in a club. Maybe some of the early Cabs stuff was just too full, too cluttered, to work properly in clubs, but when you start to strip the clutter away it becomes much more user friendly. It was a big underground dance hit." NUFF RESPECT
