10 albums 10 songs

I'm teaching a freshman seminar college course on JD/NO (again, as some of you may remember from last year) and I need some opinions -- which I'm sure there's no shortage of around here, right?

I making a sampler cd to send out to my students ahead of time and am imposing the following constraints: 1 song from each studio album; a non-single track (as I will be asking them to purchase NO Singles); and preferably not appearing on the box-set Retro (which will be on reserve for them to explore). I've broken this last rule in a couple of places, but even then they appear on seperate discs of the collection. Basically I want to give them a non-standard take on the albums as opposed to the singles.

The 2 JD albums pose their own challenge, as the Heart and Soul box will also be on reserve and everything (ok--mostly...) is on there. In this case do I stick to my guns and choose album tracks (She's Lost Control / Isolation) or pick what I would consider the most iconic pair of JD songs -- Transmission / Atmosphere ---?

(and no -- I'm not including side projects. too big a pandoras box, but they may be dealt with seperately over the semester)

so here's my picks so far, with some options built in for your comment:

Unknown Pleasures >>> She's Lost Control Closer >>> Isolation Movement >>> Dreams Never End (which is the obvious choice but appears on Retro; alternate: Senses) PCL >>> The Village (Age of Consent would of course be the 1st choise, but rules are rules...) LL >>> Love Vigilantes (and how does this NOT appear on the Fan disc of Retro?) Brotherhood >>> As It Is When It Was (which appears Live on Retro -- but we'll probably watch Reading or Finsbury Park if we want to talk about and SEE live stuff) Technique >>> Vanishing Point or Love less (?) Republic >>> Everyone Everywhere, Liar, or (hmmm) Avalanche ?! Get Ready >>> Vicious Streak or Primitive Notion WFTSC >>> Guilt is a Useless Emotion (maybe the bonus US remix even?)

so thanks for your help.

also, for those interested, the reading list for the class is as follows: Deborah Curtis, Touching from a Distance Jay McInerney, Bright Lights Big City Paul Morley, Words and Music Dave Thompson, True Faith

(and there should be a ton more, but there's a lot of admin stuff built into the class that I have to cover as well...)

thanks again.

post too long to read it now....

I.C.B. instead of Dreams Never End! Disorder instead of She's Lost Control!

Indeed!

i wanna take your course. I will try to compile a list when my mind is clear.

If I can be a self-promoting bastard for a moment (or forever, as the case may be), you might assign the pit vipers this peer-reviewed essay to counterbalance the cult of Curtis.

Man, now THAT is a class I wanna take!

The Resident New Order Angel [and Steve's Angel] of NOOL does, meanwhile, recommend the following...

Unknown Pleasures--...yeah, I'll agree defo on SLC. Though in my opinion Interzone comes at a close second, with Disorder in third. Closer--Isolation's a good track. My recommendations follow alongside 24 Hours, The Eternal, and Atrocity Exhibition. Movement--Chosen Time. 'Nuff said there. PC&L--The Village [that IS a good choice], tho for me it'll be We All Stand and/or 586. LL--Love Vigilantes, TPK, or Face Up. I love Face Up. Brotherhood--...erm, can't quite decide as of yet. I only have one song from Brotherhood, and that's Paradise. I love that song tho, so that's my recommend for that one. Technique--Love Less, Mr. Disco, Dream Attack, or Fine Time. Republic--I only know one song from there: Regret. Get Ready--Someone Like You, Primitive Notion. WFTSC--GiaUE, or Morning Night and Day or even [dare I say so??] Working Overtime!!

And I'll add two more tidbits as suggestive listening material: JD Substance '77-'80--SLC, or These Days, or even NLL [No Love Lost]. Or Digital. Or Komakino!! NO Substance '87--TPK, TLU, TF, 1963.

Reading material you got there: Ace stuff. I'm adding that Barney bio by David Nolan [which'll be out in July, I think].

Cheers! I wish I was in your class!

HHtPope--

that article may be a bit much for my first-semester freshmen, but I will try to include it in some way. Nice work.

douglis.

UP - Disorder Closer - 24 Hours Movement - Chosen Time PCL - 586 LL - Love Vigilantes Brotherhood - Way Of Life Technique - All The Way Republic - Special GR - Vicious Streak WFTSC - Who's Joe

UP - New Dawn Fades Closer - Decades Movement - Senses PCL - Leave me alone LL - Sunrise Brotherhood - Angel Dust Technique - Dream Attack Republic - Regret or Avalanche GR - Close Range WFTSC - Who's Joe

db wrote: I'm teaching a freshman seminar college course on JD/NO (again, as some of you may remember from last year) and I need some opinions -- which I'm sure there's no shortage of around here, right?

I making a sampler cd to send out to my students ahead of time and am imposing the following constraints: 1 song from each studio album; a non-single track (as I will be asking them to purchase NO Singles); and preferably not appearing on the box-set Retro (which will be on reserve for them to explore). I've broken this last rule in a couple of places, but even then they appear on seperate discs of the collection. Basically I want to give them a non-standard take on the albums as opposed to the singles.

The 2 JD albums pose their own challenge, as the Heart and Soul box will also be on reserve and everything (ok--mostly...) is on there. In this case do I stick to my guns and choose album tracks (She's Lost Control / Isolation) or pick what I would consider the most iconic pair of JD songs -- Transmission / Atmosphere ---?

thanks again.

I wish there were classes like that at my college! My freshman seminar was about French folk tales...

Unknown Pleasures - Disorder (or Shadowplay) Closer - Twenty Four Hours (or Isolation) Movement - Dreams Never End (or Chosen Time) Power Corruption Lies - Age of Consent (or 5 8 6) Low Life - Sooner Than You Think (or Sunrise) Brotherhood - Bizarre Love Triangle (er... I suppose Every Little Counts) Technique - Dream Attack (or Fine Time) Republic - Regret (or Special) Get Ready - Crystal (or Primitive Notion) WFTSC - title track (or Turn)

Predictable, but all class and some of New Order's best work. And I gave 2nd choices cos I didn't really understand your constraints.

Incidentally, if you're gonna show DVDs you should check out Pumped Full of Drugs, Brixton 87, Leuven 85, or Taras 81 instead of Finsbury Park.

Not that I don't think a class like this is a cool idea, but i'm failing to find the connection between Joy Division/New Order and a fulfilling education. Sure, you can go into lyrical analysis, but Barney's lyrics are extremely hard to seriously sit down and analyze... I can only picture a snotty college kid trying to break down what "I wanna live till I die....I wanna live to get high" really means. In other words, I don't think that a class on New Order has the same amount of life usefulness as, say, Psychology of Prejudice, or Sociology, or even Anthropology (which I hated). I heard of some 2Pac classes like that and I think they are more of an excuse to worship the band and be all obsessed about them than anything....not that that's a bad thing!

J

No Holiday wrote: Not that I don't think a class like this is a cool idea, but i'm failing to find the connection between Joy Division/New Order and a fulfilling education. Sure, you can go into lyrical analysis, but Barney's lyrics are extremely hard to seriously sit down and analyze... I can only picture a snotty college kid trying to break down what "I wanna live till I die....I wanna live to get high" really means. In other words, I don't think that a class on New Order has the same amount of life usefulness as, say, Psychology of Prejudice, or Sociology, or even Anthropology (which I hated). I heard of some 2Pac classes like that and I think they are more of an excuse to worship the band and be all obsessed about them than anything....not that that's a bad thing!

J

At my college, and I imagine most others, Freshman Seminars are just something fun for first years to do so they can have a look at what's out there. Some topics may introduce students to a subject they want to pursue, others are just interesting and a break from the serious stuff. They're only like one hour or so per week and are worth 1-2 units, not a lot.

Unknown Pleasures >>> Disorder Closer >>> Twenty Four Hours Movement >>> Doubts Even Here (a good choice instead of Dreams Never End because that and Doubts are the only tracks Hooky sings on; you could get your class to talk about what they think of Hooky's vocals vs Barney's early vocals) PCL >>> Your Silent Face LL >>> This Time Of Night Brotherhood >>> Angel Dust Technique >>> Dream Attack Republic >>> Avalanche Get Ready >>> Someone Like You WFTSC >>> Morning Night & Day

You should put Transmission in there too though. It's Joy Division's best.

No Holiday wrote: Not that I don't think a class like this is a cool idea, but i'm failing to find the connection between Joy Division/New Order and a fulfilling education. Sure, you can go into lyrical analysis, but Barney's lyrics are extremely hard to seriously sit down and analyze... I can only picture a snotty college kid trying to break down what "I wanna live till I die....I wanna live to get high" really means. In other words, I don't think that a class on New Order has the same amount of life usefulness as, say, Psychology of Prejudice, or Sociology, or even Anthropology (which I hated). I heard of some 2Pac classes like that and I think they are more of an excuse to worship the band and be all obsessed about them than anything....not that that's a bad thing!

J

actually, there's quite a bit of stuff we get into: postmodernism and issues of identity/image/meaning; love/loss; sub-culture/pop culture; how to read a song/video/text; as well as (as someone else said) general freshman orientation stuff like using the library, how to do research, how to write a paper, etc.

quite a lot really.

thanks for eveyone's suggestions.

New Dawn Fades 24 Hours Doubts Even Here Leave Me Alone Sunrise Broken Promise Vanishing Point Everyone Everywhere Someone like you Who's Joe?

Disorder 24 Hours/Isolation Chosen Time Leave Me Alone Love Vigilantes AIIWIW/Weirdo Vanishing Point/Loveless fook Republic! Turn My Way/Primitive Notion Who's Joe/Morning Night & Day

New Dawn Fades 24 Hours Chosen Time Leave Me Alone Sooner Than You Think All Day Long Vanishing Point Special Run Wild Morning Night and Day

OK -- still looking for more opinions.

It looks like I'll have 16 students in the class so I'm considering expanding things a bit to add 2 more JD songs (Atmosphere and LWTUA), Hurt (a good non-album, early NO track -- as well as a premonition/transition of sorts), and (hmmm...) one song each from Revenge, Electronic, and OtherTwo ( --- what, no Monaco? whatever...) for a total of 16.

Yes, I do like numerical parity.

ok -- discuss...

Since you are able to expand into more songs, how about bringing in covers to songs by bands the kids know? It might get them more interested to realize that thier band was influenced by JD/NO.

Dead Souls - NIN Temptation - Moby BLT - Stabbing Westward

Also you could venture into the sounds of current bands and how JD/NO has been a strong influence for them.

Interpol Killers Smashing Pumpkins etc.

I think bringing it to there level of listening might excite them more, but then I might be full of it...

EdelBrock wrote: Since you are able to expand into more songs, how about bringing in covers to songs by bands the kids know? It might get them more interested to realize that thier band was influenced by JD/NO.

Dead Souls - NIN Temptation - Moby BLT - Stabbing Westward

Also you could venture into the sounds of current bands and how JD/NO has been a strong influence for them.

Interpol Killers Smashing Pumpkins etc.

I think bringing it to there level of listening might excite them more, but then I might be full of it...

NO.

we do get into some of that, but the problem is that this is what they already know. they need the strong foundation of the original, not the copies. adieu Baudrillard.

Er, what happened to Still?

I know it was posthumous but it's still an album. The Sound Of Music or Dead Souls could be used - or the live performace of digital.

Hurt was on the 5 song mini LP.

Adding a cover version sounds good - why not pick one of the tracks from the Community project?

db wrote: OK -- still looking for more opinions.

It looks like I'll have 16 students in the class so I'm considering expanding things a bit to add 2 more JD songs (Atmosphere and LWTUA), Hurt (a good non-album, early NO track -- as well as a premonition/transition of sorts), and (hmmm...) one song each from Revenge, Electronic, and OtherTwo ( --- what, no Monaco? whatever...) for a total of 16.

Yes, I do like numerical parity.

ok -- discuss...

Alright, not sure fully on the Revenge bit , I do however have suggestions for the following...

Electronic--Forbidden City, or Getting Away With It, or Get the Message The Other Two--The Greatest Thing, Superhighways, Tasty Fish, Ninth Configuration, Spirit Level, New Horizons...

~ The Small-Town Order ~

New Dawn fades Decades Dreams never end Your silent face Sunrise All day Long vanishing point special primitive notion GIAUE

db wrote: ...and (hmmm...) one song each from Revenge, Electronic, and OtherTwo ( --- what, no Monaco? whatever...) for a total of 16.

Revenge - Pineapple Face Electronic - Get The Message The Other Two - Loved It Monaco - Shine

Not necessarily their best tracks, but the most representative ones maybe? Anyway, Loved It summarizes the whole Factory Records thing neatly in five minutes.

UP - Disorder Closer - Heart & Soul Movement - Chosen Time PCL - Leave Me Alone LL - Love Vigilantes Brotherhood - Paradise Technique - All The Way Republic - Everyone Everywhere Get Ready - Vicious Streak WFTSC - Who's Joe?

Snorri xxx

why does everyone like "Who's Joe" ??? I guess I just don't get it and am looking for someone to explain.

for me, Guilt... and even Dracula... are better from WFTSC (leaving singles and such behind)

yet so many say JOE...what gives?

I never really considered Who's Joe as a favorite off of WFTSC.

PASS

db wrote: why does everyone like "Who's Joe" ??? I guess I just don't get it and am looking for someone to explain.

for me, Guilt... and even Dracula... are better from WFTSC (leaving singles and such behind)

yet so many say JOE...what gives?

Who's Joe is my 3rd favourite track off the album (after Turn and HNWYD). I prefere the guitar tracks to the dancier, poppier stuff (which to me have aged badly and never really grabbed me on first release).

I think Whos Joe has a brilliant chorus with a good bass hook and a good little story behind it, I never tire of listening to it. It has a darker, more edgy feel than the rest of the album and is definately a stand out track.

Who's Joe??