Vinyl Re-issue Box Set - Price and Mock-up Photo

My cousin got the following mail from his local record emporium...

Hi Everyone,

My Warners rep has sent out the following email regarding the forthcoming Joy Division vinyl box set. It's expensive! Are any of you likely to be interested? Depending on discount I may get on an order it may bring the price down to nearer £100, but I can't guarantee it.

Dear All,

I am trying to guage what interest there would be at retail for this Joy Division vinyl box set, the picture attached is a mock up of what it will look like. The 3 albums are Unknown Pleasures, Closer and the double live album Still, all will be 180gm vinyl with exact replica sleeves of the origninals.

It’s going to retail at £120+!!!

Please let me know if this is something you would be interested in.

Thanks,

PICTURE

Not at that price!

Bye!

(would be my answer)

Not a prayer. Next.

Wow, 120 bills for lower signal to noise ratio and useless frequency response.

I wonder if a wax cylinder or high speed ferrous wire version would cost £500.

Does this mean that if we pre-order it for 65 quid from HMV's website, then it'll be a bargain?

Spotnick wrote: Vinyl?

People still have turn tables?

One of the biggest growth markets in the music industry...

Quite a few releases are released on vinyl nowadays... And, as for second-hand vinyl, well, it's gone through the roof on some of the older stuff...

Has anyone tried to get hold of a copy of the "Get Ready" vinyl recently? - bloomin' difficult!

120£ for a very bad sound in 2.0, noway!!

Spotnick wrote: Vinyl?

People still have turn tables?

What's wrong with NO/JD releases...

I still have mine but can't use it since it turns at 48/37 rpm. I don't know how to select the speed like it should be. I probably have to open the whole thing and surely could not close it properly after. it's not JD/ NO only, unfortunately.

Hélène's friend wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Vinyl?

People still have turn tables?

What's wrong with NO/JD releases...

I still have mine but can't use it since it turns at 48/37 rpm. I don't know how to select the speed like it should be. I probably have to open the whole thing and surely could not close it properly after. it's not JD/ NO only, unfortunately.

i have a friend that selling his 1200 technics, u interested??:D

Hélène's friend wrote: 120£ for a very bad sound in 2.0, noway!!

In my case an excellent sound

£120? Fuck that!

Nick King wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Vinyl?

People still have turn tables?

One of the biggest growth markets in the music industry...

Quite a few releases are released on vinyl nowadays... And, as for second-hand vinyl, well, it's gone through the roof on some of the older stuff...

Has anyone tried to get hold of a copy of the "Get Ready" vinyl recently? - bloomin' difficult!

Yeah, saw a vinyl copy of Get Ready for $40 awhile back, think I paid 25 for mine.

Kevin Smith wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote: 120£ for a very bad sound in 2.0, noway!!

In my case an excellent sound

£120? Fuck that!

Excellent sound? With all the bass removed and replaced on playback with a preamp, fuck all signal to noise ratio and a THD value that looks like a misprint.

It may sound, subjectively, more pleasant, but from an actual audio analysis point of view, it's pants.

There also appears to be a habit of saying vynil is better than, say CD based on testing a £350 Technics SL1210 (though the same sort of person who says these things probably also loves the sl1200 and swears that 1210's give you bollock-ache), plugged through a £400 mixer with pro quality preamps, against a CD player that cost £11.99 from argos. Try testing the plastic turntable atop a home midisystem against a £600 Dennon broadcast cd deck and see how your results turn out.

Doctor? wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote: 120£ for a very bad sound in 2.0, noway!!

In my case an excellent sound

£120? Fuck that!

Excellent sound? With all the bass removed and replaced on playback with a preamp, fuck all signal to noise ratio and a THD value that looks like a misprint.

It may sound, subjectively, more pleasant, but from an actual audio analysis point of view, it's pants.

There also appears to be a habit of saying vynil is better than, say CD based on testing a £350 Technics SL1210 (though the same sort of person who says these things probably also loves the sl1200 and swears that 1210's give you bollock-ache), plugged through a £400 mixer with pro quality preamps, against a CD player that cost £11.99 from argos. Try testing the plastic turntable atop a home midisystem against a £600 Dennon broadcast cd deck and see how your results turn out.

GIBBERISH!

The RIAA equalisation curve.

Interesting. I always had the impression that audiophiles didn't like the sound of cds due to them lacking bass.

Isn't that also the reason djs still spin 12"s?

The wider and deeper the groove the deeper the bass. Just in my own experience, records still give the best bass. :)

Anyway if I see this I'll probably get it. I am really that sad.

The bass is all added in by the pre-amp.

If a record could, without the RIAA compansion system, store the same dynamic range as a CD, the smallest groove indentation would be in the picometer range and the largest in the kilometer range!!

However, your other two points are bang on.

A deep and wide cut gives you both better signal to noise ratio AND a good solid bottom end, however it may be that both are actually caused by driving the pre-amp a bit harder.

And Vinyl is still the way to go, even for a smart arse like me, for DJ purposes, because, above all else....IT FEEDS BACK!!!!!! Although you try to stamp feedback out it always remains and makes bass drums on dance tunes ring beautifully....unless of course it was all set up by a moron in which case it's a ghastly rumble.

PS: Today's inconvenient fact..... Vinyl and all analogue recording systems have some limit or other to the lower end of their frequency response....digital, does not. Digital can happily record Direct Current, ie, 0Hz.

Christ I must be sick, sticking up for digital.

As I already have the originals, I'll pass on this one. How can they justify that price anyway?!?

RIP credibility. Or just RIP-OFF.

ally wrote: If it were £60 I'd probably go for it but at £120 I'll definitely pass.

I'll pick up all the CD reissues but that's about it.

I'd rather spend £120 on mint copies of all the original Factory vinyl (plus singles). The original Factory copies probably have more value in the long run than these Warner approved reissues.

Joy Division and Factory did go hand in hand after all.

Aye, those Factory pressings were like slabs of Marble....except Still, most flimsy was my copy.

ShugZViking wrote: GETTAE FUCK.

Scots blood's hard to shake.

Tight cunt!

Must admit I agree they can fuck RIGHT off.

Any time mate

You know how the Grand Canyon was created right?

Scotsman dropped a sixpence down a rabbit hole.

I still don't have enough money to buy 'Heart and Soul' and noq these nice reissues will also have to wait for their hour.

almansoglasnost wrote: are the live records (before mentioned) included in this particular boxset/price? (Manchester, London, High Wycombe & West Hampstead)

Nope!!

That's the biggest rip off in the music industry for a long, long time. Even if it is 180gm, those Simply Vinyl reissues a few years ago that were just like these retailed at around the £17 mark. Who on Earth thought people would pay £120 for this?

I can think of better things to spend £120 on. £40 a record, you'll be able to get all 3 re-issued deluxe CD's for that.

kino zon wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Vinyl?

People still have turn tables?

What's wrong with NO/JD releases...

I still have mine but can't use it since it turns at 48/37 rpm. I don't know how to select the speed like it should be. I probably have to open the whole thing and surely could not close it properly after. it's not JD/ NO only, unfortunately.

i have a friend that selling his 1200 technics, u interested??:D

if I buy a new one, it will be a USB one to make mp3s easily.

i'll stick with the CD's ta.

Doctor? wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote: 120£ for a very bad sound in 2.0, noway!!

In my case an excellent sound

£120? Fuck that!

Excellent sound? With all the bass removed and replaced on playback with a preamp, fuck all signal to noise ratio and a THD value that looks like a misprint.

It may sound, subjectively, more pleasant, but from an actual audio analysis point of view, it's pants.

There also appears to be a habit of saying vynil is better than, say CD based on testing a £350 Technics SL1210 (though the same sort of person who says these things probably also loves the sl1200 and swears that 1210's give you bollock-ache), plugged through a £400 mixer with pro quality preamps, against a CD player that cost £11.99 from argos. Try testing the plastic turntable atop a home midisystem against a £600 Dennon broadcast cd deck and see how your results turn out.

Time to make you look stupid.

I have a Linn Sondek LP12 and a Naim audio CDX2 through Naim audio amplification.

They probably blow the bollocks off most people's hifi on here.

The Linn is a more expensive machine than the Naim CDX2, but £3000 is still a lot to pay for a CD player and is light years away from your £11.99 cd player.If CD really is better than vinyl, wouldn't the CD player sound better at that level?

Amazon UK

LWTUA

"The vinyl box set is very limited, with a restricted worldwide pressing."

I guess this is what accounts for about two thirds of the price?

...and no mention of 'Twenty Four Hours' on Still (on the Amazon tracklist)

Kevin Smith wrote:

Time to make you look stupid.

I have a Linn Sondek LP12 and a Naim audio CDX2 through Naim audio amplification.

They probably blow the bollocks off most people's hifi on here.

The Linn is a more expensive machine than the Naim CDX2, but £3000 is still a lot to pay for a CD player and is light years away from your £11.99 cd player.If CD really is better than vinyl, wouldn't the CD player sound better at that level?

You spend three grand on a CD player and you call others stupid?

oldmonkey wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote:

Time to make you look stupid.

I have a Linn Sondek LP12 and a Naim audio CDX2 through Naim audio amplification.

They probably blow the bollocks off most people's hifi on here.

The Linn is a more expensive machine than the Naim CDX2, but £3000 is still a lot to pay for a CD player and is light years away from your £11.99 cd player.If CD really is better than vinyl, wouldn't the CD player sound better at that level?

You spend three grand on a CD player and you call others stupid?

I'm sure said CDplayer sounds delicious. But if he can post specs showing it has lower signal to noise or frequency response than his record player (oh and some THD numbers would be good), I'll wear an "I'm a thick cunt" T-Shirt.

There's a difference between what sounds subjectively better to the ear, and what is actually better. Classical music on vinyl for instance.....

Chris Nash wrote: £120 quid for 3 albums? You could buy better quality Factory originals for half the price. London need to FCUK OFF! Sorry, not even I will buy this.

I bought Still (actually re-bought, having sold my original vinyl years ago) from a charity shop for 99p recently. I think that's a more reasonable price. Even so I only bought it 'cos of the odd feeling of nostalgia I got at seeing the sleeve FULL SIZE again.

oldmonkey wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote:

Time to make you look stupid.

I have a Linn Sondek LP12 and a Naim audio CDX2 through Naim audio amplification.

They probably blow the bollocks off most people's hifi on here.

The Linn is a more expensive machine than the Naim CDX2, but £3000 is still a lot to pay for a CD player and is light years away from your £11.99 cd player.If CD really is better than vinyl, wouldn't the CD player sound better at that level?

You spend three grand on a CD player and you call others stupid?

Trouble is, the most expensive piece of hi-fi kit you can buy is a decent sized house with thick walls to put the damn thing in. Not much point spending a fortune on hi-fi if you either can't use it without headphones or can't hear it anyway over the thump-thump-thump coming through from the flat downstairs or next door. That's been my experience anyway!

Anyway, cd players seem like old technology to me. It feels a bit silly to spend a fortune on a quality transport mechanism just to make up for the fact that the technology is so dated - after all PCs can read perfectly from dirt cheap ones because they have proper error correction.

Doctor wrote:

I'm sure said CDplayer sounds delicious. But if he can post specs showing it has lower signal to noise or frequency response than his record player (oh and some THD numbers would be good), I'll wear an "I'm a thick cunt" T-Shirt.

There's a difference between what sounds subjectively better to the ear, and what is actually better. Classical music on vinyl for instance.....

I have no idea what you are talking about. The bass response is far superior on the Linn, the whole range is wider as CD is compressed. How can something that sounds far superior not be better? Have you used any Johnson's Cotton Buds lately?

If all you are interested in is numbers, then you're obviously not interested in actual sound. High end hifi is lost on you and you've never heard a Linn Sondek in action.

There is very little signal loss on the record deck as it has a Naim audio Prefix phono pre-amp built into the chassis, powered by a Naim audio Flatcap 2. All part of Naim's philosophy.

I'm sure you could find those numbers on the web if you really wanted to.

The box set is available from HMV online for £59. Ive already pre-ordered mine. I'll also get the CD versions which include the live gigs. In the vinyl vs CD debate, I prefer vinyl. I think its just wrong that great music can be reduced to a stream of 1's and 0's

Kevin Smith wrote:

Doctor wrote:

I'm sure said CDplayer sounds delicious. But if he can post specs showing it has lower signal to noise or frequency response than his record player (oh and some THD numbers would be good), I'll wear an "I'm a thick cunt" T-Shirt.

There's a difference between what sounds subjectively better to the ear, and what is actually better. Classical music on vinyl for instance.....

I have no idea what you are talking about. The bass response is far superior on the Linn, the whole range is wider as CD is compressed. How can something that sounds far superior not be better? Have you used any Johnson's Cotton Buds lately?

If all you are interested in is numbers, then you're obviously not interested in actual sound. High end hifi is lost on you and you've never heard a Linn Sondek in action.

There is very little signal loss on the record deck as it has a Naim audio Prefix phono pre-amp built into the chassis, powered by a Naim audio Flatcap 2. All part of Naim's philosophy.

I'm sure you could find those numbers on the web if you really wanted to.

CD is not compressed, 16bit=96dB SnR, no need at all for compression. Vinyl IS compressed, as well as viciously Eq'd. Why do you think you need a special phono pre-amp....it's to try and put back the stuff removed to get it onto a bit of plastic.

I say again, have you heard classical music on vinyl? It's ruined. Also, if vinyl is so good, why is it not used for mastering?

I was thinking too, I bet you buy that 15.99 a metre speaker cable too.....snake oil, makes a difference so small it doesn't appear on metering equipment, never mind the human ear. Been in several big studios including BBC-NI's main music recording one (live room large enough for an orchestra) and I don't see no daft cable in those.

As I said, Vinyl has it's place, clubs. But then even "DJ mix" CD's that you buy aren't done with vinyl, but from CD using a hard disc audio editor. Smelly, crackly poppy nonsense may be OK at 2am in a tunnel, but not once you can hear it "warts and all".

And I say once again.....Digital can record 20Hz, 10Hz, 2Hz, 0Hz (DC), no analogue format can do that.

Aye, like I said, viyl rocks for club use cos of the feedback (as long as it is controlled), of course the drawback is that it tends to make your records wear out very fast.

Remember the first CD's? Two layers of toughened, optical grade glass with the information and reflective layer between them....hence all the demo's on TV of eating off them and driving cars over them. But what do we get now? a single sheet of plastic with the info on the surface, covered only by reflective paint and the label print. Result: a disc dropped on soft carpet can be damaged.

For the record, since you'd be forgiven for missing this based on my posts on this thread, I don't much care for Digital, I hate it's horrid white noise glitches, and particularly the way it goes "work work work work work fucked" unlike analogue which degrades smoothly from working to fucked. I just can't hear silly statements about vinyl being sonically superior without calling bullshit. It's time I found a good article on how records work, I wonder how far back soundonsound's archives go.

If I might digress..... I particularly dislike digital video for the same reason, with analogue TV, if there are shitty atmospherics, your picture is there but all furry, bu the oh-so-amazing freeview will just be gone, not there, no channels. Oh, and being an F1 fan, it's a bit sad to see the diagonal lines by the side of the track looking like stairs. And as for HD? If they'd asked me to design it, I'd have started with 50 frames a sec and then worried about raising the resolution (to about half what a Pc monitor, costing 25% as much as an HD telly, can do). And watching standard DVD/digital-telly on an HD screen....yikes, it's an object lesson in aliasing.

All vinyl these days will be mastered from a digital source so it's hard to avoid digital somewhere in the chain. You're really choosing analogue or digital for the end product only.

One thing that can be said about vinyl pressings is that all the noise-war nonsense going on in the CD mastering world nowadays isn't really possible when you cut vinyl, so often you get a far truer and much more dynamic sound from the vinyl pressing as opposed to the completely ruined CD version. Check WFTSC on both CD and vinyl to see. This kind of mastering totally negates any money spent on high-end CD players.

With this in mind vinyl will definitely sound better than CD, mainly due to the corrupt mastering done for the CD.

I wish I understood what Doc & johnny james have just posted. but i don't.

what i do know is that vinyl has always seemed like a fuller sound to me - with me headphones on i always feel like i can hear further into the music - i mean i can pick out & follow parts that are way down in the mix(1); whereas with cd that depth never quite feels the same. to me.

(1)tape was the same too - sometimes clearer than my vinyl, but the beats didn't seem as full/loud/whatever on tape as they did on vinyl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

...the Wiki piece on loudness wars.

Doctor? wrote:

I particularly dislike digital video for the same reason, with analogue TV, if there are shitty atmospherics, your picture is there but all furry, bu the oh-so-amazing freeview will just be gone, not there, no channels.

Maybe its just me, but I find I _really_ notice what I would call 'MPEG artifacts' when watching digital TV. Depending on the nature of the image its sometimes horribly noticable and really distracting (its absurdly intrusive if its a scene with lots of smoke or something). It seems to be worse on the '+1' channels, maybe they use higher compression? Or is it just my cheapo freeview box?

And I'm puzzled by HD TV. As its going to be digital, where will all the extra bandwidth come from to support it? And as it all seems to be massively compressed anyway how much benefit will the increased resolution give - will it just have higher compression to make up for the increased number of pixels?

johnny james wrote: All vinyl these days will be mastered from a digital source so it's hard to avoid digital somewhere in the chain. You're really choosing analogue or digital for the end product only.

One thing that can be said about vinyl pressings is that all the noise-war nonsense going on in the CD mastering world nowadays isn't really possible when you cut vinyl, so often you get a far truer and much more dynamic sound from the vinyl pressing as opposed to the completely ruined CD version. Check WFTSC on both CD and vinyl to see. This kind of mastering totally negates any money spent on high-end CD players.

With this in mind vinyl will definitely sound better than CD, mainly due to the corrupt mastering done for the CD.

A valid point, but I think it's at least partly due to there being many Jedi cutting engineers out there. A good cutting engineer is worth more than all the multiband mastering compressors you can get your paws on. Loudness wars are retarded, doubly so since CD offers by far the greater dynamic range.

404 error wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

I particularly dislike digital video for the same reason, with analogue TV, if there are shitty atmospherics, your picture is there but all furry, bu the oh-so-amazing freeview will just be gone, not there, no channels.

Maybe its just me, but I find I _really_ notice what I would call 'MPEG artifacts' when watching digital TV. Depending on the nature of the image its sometimes horribly noticable and really distracting (its absurdly intrusive if its a scene with lots of smoke or something). It seems to be worse on the '+1' channels, maybe they use higher compression? Or is it just my cheapo freeview box?

And I'm puzzled by HD TV. As its going to be digital, where will all the extra bandwidth come from to support it? And as it all seems to be massively compressed anyway how much benefit will the increased resolution give - will it just have higher compression to make up for the increased number of pixels?

Shut the fuck up, stop asking questions, get your hole down to dixons and buy a new telly like a good little consumer.

darran clarke wrote: The box set is available from HMV online for £59. Ive already pre-ordered mine. I'll also get the CD versions which include the live gigs. In the vinyl vs CD debate, I prefer vinyl. I think its just wrong that great music can be reduced to a stream of 1's and 0's

Just looking at pre-ordering from HMV meself... I'm just a bit concerned though about why next to number of discs it says "1"...

Just a mistake I hope...

What's going on here? That 3rd vynyl doesn't look like Unknown Pleasures.It looks like it's got some big writing on the front , not the Pulsar thingy

johnny wrote: What's going on here? That 3rd vynyl doesn't look like Unknown Pleasures.It looks like it's got some big writing on the front , not the Pulsar thingy

Maybe the Still re-release is in its Hessian sleeve?

It might be the ribbon on the spine of 'Still', if they've recreated the Hessian sleeve.

(beat me to it!)

johnny james wrote:

One thing that can be said about vinyl pressings is that all the noise-war nonsense going on in the CD mastering world nowadays isn't really possible when you cut vinyl, so often you get a far truer and much more dynamic sound from the vinyl pressing as opposed to the completely ruined CD version. Check WFTSC on both CD and vinyl to see. This kind of mastering totally negates any money spent on high-end CD players.

With this in mind vinyl will definitely sound better than CD, mainly due to the corrupt mastering done for the CD.

I have a feeling I'd be interested in that if I understood it!

What's the noise war?

Doctor? wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote:

Doctor wrote:

I'm sure said CDplayer sounds delicious. But if he can post specs showing it has lower signal to noise or frequency response than his record player (oh and some THD numbers would be good), I'll wear an "I'm a thick cunt" T-Shirt.

There's a difference between what sounds subjectively better to the ear, and what is actually better. Classical music on vinyl for instance.....

I have no idea what you are talking about. The bass response is far superior on the Linn, the whole range is wider as CD is compressed. How can something that sounds far superior not be better? Have you used any Johnson's Cotton Buds lately?

If all you are interested in is numbers, then you're obviously not interested in actual sound. High end hifi is lost on you and you've never heard a Linn Sondek in action.

There is very little signal loss on the record deck as it has a Naim audio Prefix phono pre-amp built into the chassis, powered by a Naim audio Flatcap 2. All part of Naim's philosophy.

I'm sure you could find those numbers on the web if you really wanted to.

CD is not compressed, 16bit=96dB SnR, no need at all for compression. Vinyl IS compressed, as well as viciously Eq'd. Why do you think you need a special phono pre-amp....it's to try and put back the stuff removed to get it onto a bit of plastic.

I say again, have you heard classical music on vinyl? It's ruined. Also, if vinyl is so good, why is it not used for mastering?

I was thinking too, I bet you buy that 15.99 a metre speaker cable too.....snake oil, makes a difference so small it doesn't appear on metering equipment, never mind the human ear. Been in several big studios including BBC-NI's main music recording one (live room large enough for an orchestra) and I don't see no daft cable in those.

As I said, Vinyl has it's place, clubs. But then even "DJ mix" CD's that you buy aren't done with vinyl, but from CD using a hard disc audio editor. Smelly, crackly poppy nonsense may be OK at 2am in a tunnel, but not once you can hear it "warts and all".

And I say once again.....Digital can record 20Hz, 10Hz, 2Hz, 0Hz (DC), no analogue format can do that.

quite quite ridiculous. earlier you cite a technics is a high qualidee turntable, then you argue with an audiophile, you talk figures over what it actually sounds like & then bring up decent cabling & claim it offers no improvement to sound & so switch to subjectivity, ignoring the very graphs you earlier counted on.

sorry steve, i've watched you blathering on, as usual, on this thread as if you're the font of all knowledge, but sometimes you should just leave it be, it's okay to do so, you don't have to post on every thread.

fwiw i have a much cheaper system than the naim/ linn set up but even on mine spending a bit of cash on some decent interconnects made a noticeable difference.

johnny james wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

...the Wiki piece on loudness wars.

Answered my question before I asked it.

Very interesting.

That explains why the music on adverts always sounds so shit, I suppose.

No more f'ing saudade wrote:

johnny wrote: What's going on here? That 3rd vynyl doesn't look like Unknown Pleasures.It looks like it's got some big writing on the front , not the Pulsar thingy

Maybe the Still re-release is in its Hessian sleeve?

Aaah haaaa , yes that would be it.I can see it now.It looks like the ribbon

Well now you tell me.

Well worth twice what they're charging now they've tied a piece of fucking RIBBON to it.

Vinyl IS compressed, as well as viciously Eq'd. Why do you think you need a special phono pre-amp....it's to try and put back the stuff removed to get it onto a bit of plastic.

I say again, have you heard classical music on vinyl? It's ruined.

I was thinking too, I bet you buy that 15.99 a metre speaker cable too.....snake oil, makes a difference so small it doesn't appear on metering equipment, never mind the human ear.

The phono pre-amp is because the record deck is a low level output. IT IS NOT TO PUT SOMETHING THERE THAT ISN'T THERE. NAIM AMPS DON'T EVEN HAVE BASS OR TREBLE KNOBS ON THEM. Their whole philosophy is about keeping the music pure and minimising distortion. Linn's own phono pre-amp, the Linto is a separate box connected by a long cable which means that the signal will be degraded compared to the Naim Prefix which is inside the Linn housing.

I've heard classical on a better Linn deck than my own and through a better pre-amp and through far better active speakers (ATC 50s). Frighteningly good, superb dynamic range, wonderful presentation, I could go on.

Naim NACA 5 is about £10 a metre, it's not that expensive really. And frankly, if you can't hear the difference, I'll send you that box of Johnson's Cotton Buds Changing interconnects from what your hifi came with to something that costs £15 for a pair of phono leads is one of the best investments you can make. If you can't hear the difference, see your GP for a hearing test.

Righty then.

Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html

Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".

Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.

As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.

Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.

Doctor? wrote: Righty then.

Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html

Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".

Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.

As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.

Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.

PS: I AM the font of all human knowlege and wisdom, and the sooner you accept that, the happier we'll all be

This is on the Factory/Warner Brothers label? What happened to London?

Unless I've been misinformed for a very long time, a phono preamp uses the RIAA eq curve in order to reproduce sound from vinyl. It's a standard and as may have been mentioned earlier is compensated for in mastering and cutting. Vinyl has a different set of considerations for mastering, especially regarding the handling of low frequencies. At some point, the RIAA curve becomes a factor in the playback of vinyl.

As far as which format sounds better, you bunch can debate it to death 'cause it all sounds like hell when someone dumps it down to mp3 to listen to at 120db through those god awful earbuds on their iPoop.

or $250-ish (120 pounds) it better be gold plated and make my dinner!!

Re Masters worry me. that YouTube "Loudness Wars" clip shows that most remastering seems to nuke the dynamic range and make everything LOUD!! The NO "Singles" collection was that. Doubt I have ever heard a worse recording.

I notice on my 12" Blue Monday (ok re-press but hey it said BUY ME!!) that there is hardly any "obvious" compression, whereas most cds have some degree of it-the worst being all compressed to shit with no dynamic range at all.)

On the vinyl I can pick out most of the parts (one of my favorite exercises) Most cds it is quite difficult for me to attempt. on Jazz recording I concentrate of the drums. Rock I concentrate on the bass and how it intertwine with lead and rhythm guitars.

I also notice when I go clubbing (rare these days) how all the days will use laptops with mixing software. Any place I can learn about that? I am happy to make my own mix cds but curiosity has me.

Search for Finalscratch, that's the boy you want.

All this Vinyl versus CD thing is rendered redundant by 'loudness mastering' on modern CDs, when it's been done to the CD the vinyl will sound better. It should be the other way round but there you go.

johnny james wrote: All this Vinyl versus CD thing is rendered redundant by 'loudness mastering' on modern CDs, when it's been done to the CD the vinyl will sound better. It should be the other way round but there you go.

Aye, yer not wrong. Of course the worst of all possible worlds is probably a recording mastered for CD and then pressed, unaltered, to vinyl.

Shit, there's a thought.....have these been pressed from the original master or one re-done for a CD release...yikes, could be rough.

Anyone know if the new vinyl release of Still will feature '24 hours' from the Birmingham gig, as the original pressing did (although uncredited)?

I'm guessing the CD will not feature it, although a proper remaster job should surely feature as much of the gig as possible...

That stuff on that website is for geeks. Nothing replaces a good pair of ears. It doesn't tell you how it sounds.

Does this give you the info you require? http://www.linn.co.uk/files/0981e726/LP12\_S\_02-04.pdf

I can only summise you've never heard a Linn Sondek LP12.

Speaker cable is important, there is good and bad. Mine is designed to work best with my system. On a non Naim system it could well sound shit.

As for interconnects, DIN are superior as they don't form a circuit which standard phonos can and affect the sound.

I am an audiophile and I can only tell you what my ears hear.

Of course, most of your argument falls apart unless you have a full range speaker set attached to your power amp as you won't be able to hear the bits you're trying to argue about.

Doctor? wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Righty then.

Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html

Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".

Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.

As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.

Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.

PS: I AM the font of all human knowlege and wisdom, and the sooner you accept that, the happier we'll all be

Kevin Smith wrote: That stuff on that website is for geeks. Nothing replaces a good pair of ears. It doesn't tell you how it sounds.

Does this give you the info you require? http://www.linn.co.uk/files/0981e726/LP12\_S\_02-04.pdf

I can only summise you've never heard a Linn Sondek LP12.

Speaker cable is important, there is good and bad. Mine is designed to work best with my system. On a non Naim system it could well sound shit.

As for interconnects, DIN are superior as they don't form a circuit which standard phonos can and affect the sound.

I am an audiophile and I can only tell you what my ears hear.

Of course, most of your argument falls apart unless you have a full range speaker set attached to your power amp as you won't be able to hear the bits you're trying to argue about.

Doctor? wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Righty then.

Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html

Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".

Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.

As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.

Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.

PS: I AM the font of all human knowlege and wisdom, and the sooner you accept that, the happier we'll all be

Well it is geeky, but I was just proving that vinyl is subject to serious Eq and a spot of compansion too. In truth my ears are shot to shit, especially my left, which took a full force "parp" from a trombone a little over 10 years ago and has had the top few KHz knocked out of it.

You audiophiles are freaks, no offense, but the stuff you boys buy wouldn't get a secon look in in even the largest recording studios. We once seen an amp in What Hi-Fi magazine....who's frequency response was given as 5-200000Hz...not 20Khz but....200Khz...or 0.2MHz that's not an amp, it's a fuckin long wave radio transmitter.

Interesting what you say about DIN, I take it you mean ground loops? Phono's being more prone cos they have a redundant earth (only one side of the pair NEEDS to be in to connect the grounds). In engineering circles there are two ways to deal with ground loops..... some people lift the Earth on one of the offending machines....those who would like to live longer, solder a 100KOhm resistor in line with the ground/screen connection of the audio lead.

BTW...is it Linn, as in Linn9000/Linndrum?

I agree... :D

Snorri xxx

Linn is the same company as Lindrum, Linn Synclavier etc...

The DIN thing is explained on naim audio's website. Naim also make studio equipment.

Naim make alternative parts for the Linn Sondek (Aro arm, Armageddon Power Supply, Prefix and the standard phono stage).

Kevin Smith wrote: Linn is the same company as Lindrum, Linn Synclavier etc...

Sorry to be an ass, but the Linn Drum was designed and built by Roger Linn of Linn Electronics, USA who also worked on the Akai MPC 60 and now runs Roger Linn Designs. The Synclavier was a product of New England Digital. If either of these companies is tied to Ivor Tiefenbrun's Linn Products I'm unaware of it.

Ok, NOW I'm out of my depth, so instead I'll tell you how the CIA have to do background checks on you before you can buy a synclavier, and that NASA use(d) one to debug the shuttle and various other spacecraft because of it's unbelievable real time data processing capabilities. Always had me doubts about the veracity of that, but read confirmation in B+W from an NED boffin, in soundonsound.

You would appear to be correct. I was told that it was the same co by someone years ago, before the internet came along and should have really checked that out.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a lawsuit regarding the name Linn given that they are both in musical electronics.

Bentley wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Linn is the same company as Lindrum, Linn Synclavier etc...

Sorry to be an ass, but the Linn Drum was designed and built by Roger Linn of Linn Electronics, USA who also worked on the Akai MPC 60 and now runs Roger Linn Designs. The Synclavier was a product of New England Digital. If either of these companies is tied to Ivor Tiefenbrun's Linn Products I'm unaware of it.

Well, HMV are now showing a picture of all 4 LP's, and still selling for 60 quid, so pre-ordering it... They have to fulfill orders!

lower! LOWER!

Indeed*!*

A mail from hmv today 119 GBP, not 60 GBP

Der Chris wrote: A mail from hmv today 119 GBP, not 60 GBP

Yes, swines...

The suppliers have decided to release this set in more deluxe packaging than we originally thought. As such, the dealer price and hence the retail price have also increased. We are therefore writing to you to inform you that the retail price of this item will now be £119.99, and not as previously advertised.

HMV is saying, they had thought about it and they're wrong now. I can't believe it.

HMV are swines for this. I like the way that it's not their fault for putting the dealer price rather than the selling price on their site,it's because " The suppliers have decided to release this set in more deluxe packaging than we originally thought". Yeah, right.

Well ain't that some shit.

I wasn't gonna buy it anyway, but now I kinda wonder if that'll drive up the perceived value of the original Factory records. If so, then I've got no problem with that.

Ive just emailed the fuckers to tell them to stick the £120 box set where the sun dont shine.

Actually I said that they were contracturally obliged to honour the transaction, and that i await their response.

I´ll get the CDs only. Just read this on Cerysmatic Factory:

"- The upcoming 'remastered' Joy Division albums are not actually taken from the original album masters - which have been 'misplaced' - and so are slightly different mixes from the originals."

Now I wonder what in the hell could it mean when playing the actual discs. Hope they didn´t got the channels reversed this time.

HMV are swines for this. I like the way that it's not their fault for putting the dealer price rather than the selling price on their site,it's because " The suppliers have decided to release this set in more deluxe packaging than we originally thought". Yeah, right.

The dealer price will be far closer to the selling price than that. The margins for shops are so slight now, especially when they have to compete with Amazon and the like. I can quite see that HMV aren't going to sell them all at a £40 loss for each set.

If you don't like the price it's the label you have to blame. It is too much and I won't be bothering with it. I have the originals plus excellent Japanese pressings that won't be bettered by these.

Oh, we've all got the originals. I just wanted to pay £60 for a big empty box designed by Peter Saville.

thought they'd have learnt about this when they got their fingers burnt with the retro box set preorders

darran clarke wrote: Ive just emailed the fuckers to tell them to stick the £120 box set where the sun dont shine.

Actually I said that they were contracturally obliged to honour the transaction, and that i await their response.

Thats what i said, and how conveniant its all gone quiet at HMV.com!

Mr. Disco wrote: "- The upcoming 'remastered' Joy Division albums are not actually taken from the original album masters - which have been 'misplaced' - and so are slightly different mixes from the originals."

Hang on a second right there... What the hell does that mean???

If the original album masters have been "misplaced" (which I'm presuming means from when Factory went bust and them signing to London - i.e. those master tapes Hooky found in the skip?), then does that mean that the "slightly different mixes" were also on the Centredate CD's...

...Or, has some stupid idiot lost the album masters since 1997???

The Centredate CDs were probably taken from reels/DATs that Qwest had, or even the original Factory CDs. In other words, they didn't try too hard to get to the original source.

johnny james wrote: The Centredate CDs were probably taken from reels/DATs that Qwest had, or even the original Factory CDs. In other words, they didn't try too hard to get to the original source.

Good point... :)

Oh, btw, on the subject of this HMV 60 quid boxset, despite their earlier e-mail saying it would be cancelled, they've sent me one this morning saying it's just dispatched!

Nick King wrote:

johnny james wrote: The Centredate CDs were probably taken from reels/DATs that Qwest had, or even the original Factory CDs. In other words, they didn't try too hard to get to the original source.

Good point... :)

Oh, btw, on the subject of this HMV 60 quid boxset, despite their earlier e-mail saying it would be cancelled, they've sent me one this morning saying it's just dispatched!

Say's it all about HMV.co.uk Nick, no wonder Amazon are p***ing all over them! Cheers!

Nick King wrote:

johnny james wrote: The Centredate CDs were probably taken from reels/DATs that Qwest had, or even the original Factory CDs. In other words, they didn't try too hard to get to the original source.

Good point... :)

Oh, btw, on the subject of this HMV 60 quid boxset, despite their earlier e-mail saying it would be cancelled, they've sent me one this morning saying it's just dispatched!

Me too! we could be quids in!!

Nick King wrote: Hang on a second right there... What the hell does that mean???

If the original album masters have been "misplaced" (which I'm presuming means from when Factory went bust and them signing to London - i.e. those master tapes Hooky found in the skip?), then does that mean that the "slightly different mixes" were also on the Centredate CD's...

...Or, has some stupid idiot lost the album masters since 1997???

That would be interesting.

Nick King wrote:

johnny james wrote: The Centredate CDs were probably taken from reels/DATs that Qwest had, or even the original Factory CDs. In other words, they didn't try too hard to get to the original source.

Good point... :)

Oh, btw, on the subject of this HMV 60 quid boxset, despite their earlier e-mail saying it would be cancelled, they've sent me one this morning saying it's just dispatched!

Shit, i cancelled mine in a huff after i rung citizens advice about my consumer rights etc, they said because they're based in guernsey they can change the price as they wish, if they were mainland UK based they had to stick to the £60.

patrick stewart appreciation society wrote:

darran clarke wrote: Ive just emailed the fuckers to tell them to stick the £120 box set where the sun dont shine.

Actually I said that they were contracturally obliged to honour the transaction, and that i await their response.

Thats what i said, and how conveniant its all gone quiet at HMV.com!

Stupid fuckin wankers! h.m.v ,since they fucked up and i never got my sirens record i've fucked em right off and havent stepped foot in any of there shops ever since,wankers!

Nick King wrote:

johnny james wrote: The Centredate CDs were probably taken from reels/DATs that Qwest had, or even the original Factory CDs. In other words, they didn't try too hard to get to the original source.

Good point... :)

Oh, btw, on the subject of this HMV 60 quid boxset, despite their earlier e-mail saying it would be cancelled, they've sent me one this morning saying it's just dispatched!

Me too, but in the mail they say, they send it for the new price, not for 60GBP

60 quid, and it arrived this morning!

Still sealed in the Saville designed box...

Bargain! :)

The big question is.....are you going to open it?

johnny james wrote: The big question is.....are you going to open it?

Nah, no real need - as per Rocket Mick, I'm going to keep it minty mint! :)

Nick King wrote:

johnny james wrote: The big question is.....are you going to open it?

Nah, no real need - as per Rocket Mick, I'm going to keep it minty mint! :)

I remember opening Palatine and discovering all 4 CDs were missing (From HMV , fancy that eh?)

Mind you , with this vynyl boxset you'd be able to tell by the weight if the vynyls weren't in there?

Just opened mine.

Large grey hessian box with no writing. Contents:

Unknown Pleasures - One black textured card sleeve (no writing or artwork) containing one white card inner sleeve (rounded corners, no writing). 12" slab of 180g vinyl with one black label and one white label (no writing).

Closer - One White card sleeve (no writing or artwork) containing one white card inner sleeve (rounded corners, no writing or artwork). 12" slab of 180g vinyl with black labels (no writing or artwork).

Still - Hessian bound (with white ribbon) containing grey gatefold sleeve (no writing or artwork) and two grey inner sleeves (rounded corners, die cut, no writing or artwork). 2x12" slabs of 180g vinyl with white labels (no writing or artwork).

Inside back of box: "Joy Division - in memory" plus tracklistings and 'limited to 3000' text.

Nice item. Very Saville & Co. No time to play it now though. Back to work (Zzzz...)

Stop! youre making me salivate........ mine should arrive tomorrow

Nick King wrote:

johnny james wrote: The big question is.....are you going to open it?

Nah, no real need - as per Rocket Mick, I'm going to keep it minty mint! :)

FANCY nick SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY play em.BEGGARS BELIEF!

Folks in the US should buy the box directly from Rhino. Much cheaper!!! Heck, probably even cheaper if sent to the UK:

http://www.rhinorecords.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=330684

Mine arrived this afternoon. I opened it after a couple of minutes deliberation. I thought the artwork would be reproduced - its just a plain black sleeve, a plain white sleeve, and a hessian sleeve. Talk about being underwhelmed. Glad I didnt pay £120 for it though.