johnny james wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
...the Wiki piece on loudness wars.
Answered my question before I asked it.
Very interesting.
That explains why the music on adverts always sounds so shit, I suppose.
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Vinyl Re-issue Box Set - Price and Mock-up Photo
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No more f'ing saudade wrote:
johnny wrote: What's going on here? That 3rd vynyl doesn't look like Unknown Pleasures.It looks like it's got some big writing on the front , not the Pulsar thingy
Maybe the Still re-release is in its Hessian sleeve?
Aaah haaaa , yes that would be it.I can see it now.It looks like the ribbon
Well now you tell me.
Well worth twice what they're charging now they've tied a piece of fucking RIBBON to it.
Vinyl IS compressed, as well as viciously Eq'd. Why do you think you need a special phono pre-amp....it's to try and put back the stuff removed to get it onto a bit of plastic.
I say again, have you heard classical music on vinyl? It's ruined.
I was thinking too, I bet you buy that 15.99 a metre speaker cable too.....snake oil, makes a difference so small it doesn't appear on metering equipment, never mind the human ear.
The phono pre-amp is because the record deck is a low level output. IT IS NOT TO PUT SOMETHING THERE THAT ISN'T THERE. NAIM AMPS DON'T EVEN HAVE BASS OR TREBLE KNOBS ON THEM. Their whole philosophy is about keeping the music pure and minimising distortion. Linn's own phono pre-amp, the Linto is a separate box connected by a long cable which means that the signal will be degraded compared to the Naim Prefix which is inside the Linn housing.
I've heard classical on a better Linn deck than my own and through a better pre-amp and through far better active speakers (ATC 50s). Frighteningly good, superb dynamic range, wonderful presentation, I could go on.
Naim NACA 5 is about £10 a metre, it's not that expensive really. And frankly, if you can't hear the difference, I'll send you that box of Johnson's Cotton Buds 
Changing interconnects from what your hifi came with to something that costs £15 for a pair of phono leads is one of the best investments you can make. If you can't hear the difference, see your GP for a hearing test.
Righty then.
Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html
Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".
Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.
As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.
Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.
Doctor? wrote: Righty then.
Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html
Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".
Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.
As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.
Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.
PS: I AM the font of all human knowlege and wisdom, and the sooner you accept that, the happier we'll all be
Unless I've been misinformed for a very long time, a phono preamp uses the RIAA eq curve in order to reproduce sound from vinyl. It's a standard and as may have been mentioned earlier is compensated for in mastering and cutting. Vinyl has a different set of considerations for mastering, especially regarding the handling of low frequencies. At some point, the RIAA curve becomes a factor in the playback of vinyl.
As far as which format sounds better, you bunch can debate it to death 'cause it all sounds like hell when someone dumps it down to mp3 to listen to at 120db through those god awful earbuds on their iPoop.
or $250-ish (120 pounds) it better be gold plated and make my dinner!!
Re Masters worry me. that YouTube "Loudness Wars" clip shows that most remastering seems to nuke the dynamic range and make everything LOUD!! The NO "Singles" collection was that. Doubt I have ever heard a worse recording.
I notice on my 12" Blue Monday (ok re-press but hey it said BUY ME!!) that there is hardly any "obvious" compression, whereas most cds have some degree of it-the worst being all compressed to shit with no dynamic range at all.)
On the vinyl I can pick out most of the parts (one of my favorite exercises) Most cds it is quite difficult for me to attempt. on Jazz recording I concentrate of the drums. Rock I concentrate on the bass and how it intertwine with lead and rhythm guitars.
I also notice when I go clubbing (rare these days) how all the days will use laptops with mixing software. Any place I can learn about that? I am happy to make my own mix cds but curiosity has me.
All this Vinyl versus CD thing is rendered redundant by 'loudness mastering' on modern CDs, when it's been done to the CD the vinyl will sound better. It should be the other way round but there you go.
johnny james wrote: All this Vinyl versus CD thing is rendered redundant by 'loudness mastering' on modern CDs, when it's been done to the CD the vinyl will sound better. It should be the other way round but there you go.
Aye, yer not wrong. Of course the worst of all possible worlds is probably a recording mastered for CD and then pressed, unaltered, to vinyl.
Shit, there's a thought.....have these been pressed from the original master or one re-done for a CD release...yikes, could be rough.
Anyone know if the new vinyl release of Still will feature '24 hours' from the Birmingham gig, as the original pressing did (although uncredited)?
I'm guessing the CD will not feature it, although a proper remaster job should surely feature as much of the gig as possible...
That stuff on that website is for geeks. Nothing replaces a good pair of ears. It doesn't tell you how it sounds.
Does this give you the info you require? http://www.linn.co.uk/files/0981e726/LP12\_S\_02-04.pdf
I can only summise you've never heard a Linn Sondek LP12.
Speaker cable is important, there is good and bad. Mine is designed to work best with my system. On a non Naim system it could well sound shit.
As for interconnects, DIN are superior as they don't form a circuit which standard phonos can and affect the sound.
I am an audiophile and I can only tell you what my ears hear.
Of course, most of your argument falls apart unless you have a full range speaker set attached to your power amp as you won't be able to hear the bits you're trying to argue about.
Doctor? wrote:
Doctor? wrote: Righty then.
Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html
Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".
Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.
As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.
Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.
PS: I AM the font of all human knowlege and wisdom, and the sooner you accept that, the happier we'll all be
Kevin Smith wrote: That stuff on that website is for geeks. Nothing replaces a good pair of ears. It doesn't tell you how it sounds.
Does this give you the info you require? http://www.linn.co.uk/files/0981e726/LP12\_S\_02-04.pdf
I can only summise you've never heard a Linn Sondek LP12.
Speaker cable is important, there is good and bad. Mine is designed to work best with my system. On a non Naim system it could well sound shit.
As for interconnects, DIN are superior as they don't form a circuit which standard phonos can and affect the sound.
I am an audiophile and I can only tell you what my ears hear.
Of course, most of your argument falls apart unless you have a full range speaker set attached to your power amp as you won't be able to hear the bits you're trying to argue about.
Doctor? wrote:
Doctor? wrote: Righty then.
Kevin, please read the following...... http://stereos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=stereos&cdn=gadgets&tm=33&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.euronet.nl/%7Emgw/background/riaa/uk_riaa_background_1.html
Paying particular attention to the word "equalisation".
Might I ask the dynamic range of your turntable (regardless of the record), cos I've never seen one that can outdo the 96dB of 16 bit audio.
As for interconnects, well if yer talking about replacing the bell wire and aluminium terminals most hi-fi's come with, then I'd agree an upgrade is a good plan. Likewise, good LINE level leads are a good plan (doubly so for record player level), but stupidly expensive speaker cable? I have severe doubts, and am supported in that by many a studio designer.
Hibster: I'm blathering cos I'm not trying to make any point, just call bullshit on some others, I have no point to proove.
PS: I AM the font of all human knowlege and wisdom, and the sooner you accept that, the happier we'll all be
Well it is geeky, but I was just proving that vinyl is subject to serious Eq and a spot of compansion too. In truth my ears are shot to shit, especially my left, which took a full force "parp" from a trombone a little over 10 years ago and has had the top few KHz knocked out of it.
You audiophiles are freaks, no offense, but the stuff you boys buy wouldn't get a secon look in in even the largest recording studios. We once seen an amp in What Hi-Fi magazine....who's frequency response was given as 5-200000Hz...not 20Khz but....200Khz...or 0.2MHz that's not an amp, it's a fuckin long wave radio transmitter.
Interesting what you say about DIN, I take it you mean ground loops? Phono's being more prone cos they have a redundant earth (only one side of the pair NEEDS to be in to connect the grounds). In engineering circles there are two ways to deal with ground loops..... some people lift the Earth on one of the offending machines....those who would like to live longer, solder a 100KOhm resistor in line with the ground/screen connection of the audio lead.
BTW...is it Linn, as in Linn9000/Linndrum?
:DLinn is the same company as Lindrum, Linn Synclavier etc...
The DIN thing is explained on naim audio's website. Naim also make studio equipment.
Naim make alternative parts for the Linn Sondek (Aro arm, Armageddon Power Supply, Prefix and the standard phono stage).
Kevin Smith wrote: Linn is the same company as Lindrum, Linn Synclavier etc...
Sorry to be an ass, but the Linn Drum was designed and built by Roger Linn of Linn Electronics, USA who also worked on the Akai MPC 60 and now runs Roger Linn Designs. The Synclavier was a product of New England Digital. If either of these companies is tied to Ivor Tiefenbrun's Linn Products I'm unaware of it.
Ok, NOW I'm out of my depth, so instead I'll tell you how the CIA have to do background checks on you before you can buy a synclavier, and that NASA use(d) one to debug the shuttle and various other spacecraft because of it's unbelievable real time data processing capabilities. Always had me doubts about the veracity of that, but read confirmation in B+W from an NED boffin, in soundonsound.
You would appear to be correct. I was told that it was the same co by someone years ago, before the internet came along and should have really checked that out.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a lawsuit regarding the name Linn given that they are both in musical electronics.
Bentley wrote:
Kevin Smith wrote: Linn is the same company as Lindrum, Linn Synclavier etc...
Sorry to be an ass, but the Linn Drum was designed and built by Roger Linn of Linn Electronics, USA who also worked on the Akai MPC 60 and now runs Roger Linn Designs. The Synclavier was a product of New England Digital. If either of these companies is tied to Ivor Tiefenbrun's Linn Products I'm unaware of it.
Well, HMV are now showing a picture of all 4 LP's, and still selling for 60 quid, so pre-ordering it... They have to fulfill orders! 
119 GBP, not 60 GBPThe suppliers have decided to release this set in more deluxe packaging than we originally thought. As such, the dealer price and hence the retail price have also increased. We are therefore writing to you to inform you that the retail price of this item will now be £119.99, and not as previously advertised.
HMV is saying, they had thought about it and they're wrong now. I can't believe it.
HMV are swines for this. I like the way that it's not their fault for putting the dealer price rather than the selling price on their site,it's because " The suppliers have decided to release this set in more deluxe packaging than we originally thought". Yeah, right.
Well ain't that some shit.
I wasn't gonna buy it anyway, but now I kinda wonder if that'll drive up the perceived value of the original Factory records. If so, then I've got no problem with that.
Ive just emailed the fuckers to tell them to stick the £120 box set where the sun dont shine.
Actually I said that they were contracturally obliged to honour the transaction, and that i await their response.
I´ll get the CDs only. Just read this on Cerysmatic Factory:
"- The upcoming 'remastered' Joy Division albums are not actually taken from the original album masters - which have been 'misplaced' - and so are slightly different mixes from the originals."
Now I wonder what in the hell could it mean when playing the actual discs. Hope they didn´t got the channels reversed this time.
HMV are swines for this. I like the way that it's not their fault for putting the dealer price rather than the selling price on their site,it's because " The suppliers have decided to release this set in more deluxe packaging than we originally thought". Yeah, right.
The dealer price will be far closer to the selling price than that. The margins for shops are so slight now, especially when they have to compete with Amazon and the like. I can quite see that HMV aren't going to sell them all at a £40 loss for each set.
If you don't like the price it's the label you have to blame. It is too much and I won't be bothering with it. I have the originals plus excellent Japanese pressings that won't be bettered by these.
