Help Iancurtis.org !!

Hi. I'm a new member, and as expected, a a huge fan of both Joy Division and New Order. I've been noticing that since the release and subsequent popularity of the Ian Curtis biopic "Control" that one of the most interesting and comprehensive web sites on chronicling Joy Division, discography and lyrics has been unavailable due to the simple fact that it's popularity means it's exceeding it's bandwidth on a regular basis. In short Iancurtis.org has been offline more than online for several months now.

Should we do something: contribute, suggest an ISP change, approach the members of the now dissolved New Order to host the site...? Just thinking out loud. I'm really not sure how to help this intrepid and devoted Joy Division fan get his site back up, so suggestions are appreciated.

I don't think I've seen a similar Joy Division site, or one so extensively researched and detailed. It would be a shame to lose it. I'm convinced most members know it well, and would agree that if anything, it's a site that shouldn't be forced to disappear, particularly now!

Failing anyone's concern, I'll try to send the web master a tenner or two, if only as a gesture of solidarity.

Thanks for your ear folks!

Maybe when he stops his policy of hoarding the rare stuff and refusing to be part of the worldwide JD trading community......

You haven't found JD Central then, by far the most detailed and accurate site on the band? Not much of a surfer are you?

This site is funded mainly by donations from the regulars, and thrives because of the message boards. All you ever get on IanCurtis.org is stuff copied from elsewhere or "look at me I own this" from Mr Walther. Maybe he should just pay for more bandwidth if he wants to show off his collection to the world?

Never heard of it meself. And why is it a '.org'. Is it a registered charitable organisation or something?

Joy Division Central changed to joydiv.org sometime over the summer. It is by far the most thorough and accurate JD site, though some of the layout graphics are rather dated.

Well, thanks for the pointers. I was completely oblivious to the political controversy surrounding Iancurtis.org... forgive my lack of preventative cynicism.

As for not surfing much... hmmmm, perhaps not, there are only so many web sites one can visit since connecting to the web in 1994... sorry if I missed a few, or overlooked the back stories indicating whom I should and shouldn't like.

I prefer to get my lyrics from decent fan sites, not commercial lyrics reproduction sites that are cheap vehicles for ads. I found Iancurtis.org seemed to have a great site, and felt no need to ferret out another.

Again, thanks for the info. I had no idea I was opening up such a can of worms.

Well he may have rare stuff but he hasn't got Ian's Kitchen Table, cuz my printers on it right now!!!!

Yeh,& he doesn't live round the corner from Ians' mum either...he's nothing....

Spotnick wrote:

JV wrote: Joy Division Central changed to joydiv.org sometime over the summer. It is by far the most thorough and accurate JD site, though some of the layout graphics are rather dated.

Well, I try, but obviously I'm missing stuff.

It's not a criticism of the Joy Division info here. This is certainly the superior New Order site by a country mile, and it's layout looks great. The effort to be comprehensive is well and truly appreciated.

Strange first post though wasn't it? "Hey guys, why don't you all give money to what could be seen as a rival site to help pay for its bandwidth?"

Hang yer heid in shame mate

Seriously though, don't worry about yer introduction to this site, as is pointed out in Barney's book, this forum has a ner ner ner-ner-ner culture....... You'll get used to Tim :D

Thanks for the heads up. Consider my first post, and this topic closed. In spite of the somewhat prickly welcome, I'm still glad I joined. And for the record I am quite familiar with Joydivision.org, and it is exceptionally rich in information and detail, but I did want to find a single comprehensive site with all of the band's lyrics, cross-referenced with releases and alternative versions, etc.. So until I do find another, Iancurtis.org, with all of its heinous, unmentionable practices and socially destabilizing criminal activity remains the only obvious choice. Rest assured I'll not send its webmaster a single penny, or even a Christmas card.

oldmonkey wrote: Strange first post though wasn't it? "Hey guys, why don't you all give money to what could be seen as a rival site to help pay for its bandwidth?"

Rival? I thought this was a like-minded community of fans? And, I'll repeat, I was ignorant of (and blissfully so) of the backstory and politics surrounding the deviant and evil machinations of Iancurtis.org. Honestly, I'd have likely suggested that others help this web site if it was experiencing the same problems. I can see your point, and can probably stretch my wee brain to try and comprehend all the reasons why this other web site seems to engender so much disdain, so I'll defer to your experience. Seriously. But, now that I'm in the know and have been properly scolded for my naiveté, I'll once again propose that this topic be closed.

Tell you what pal, cut the sarcasm out and pin yer lugs back for a second.

The guy who runs Ian Curtis.org is renowned as a hoarder who buys everything remotely connected to JD up whenever it becomes available, often at inflated prices, as his own private collection.

Thousands of other Joy Division fans all over the world are more inclined to share things like rare recordings, particularly in this day and age with bit torrent sites. All those JD bootlegs that are out there? And the live recordings on the recent official re-releases? They were all taken from tapes done by a fan, who gave (NOT sold) his recordings away, so that anyone who wanted a copy could get hold of one. Our friend at Ian Curtis.org is of the belief that he should be entitled to take from everyone else but never contribute anything back into the pool, which is what gets mine and loads more people's backs up. He claims to have a couple of recordings that have never seen the light of day, but when asked for more information about them he pretends not to have received the request!

This place is very much an area where people are able to request and trade recordings etc, without charging for them, in many cases not even the cost of blanks. You won't find Ian Curtis.org buying in to these principles, however glad he is to lift info etc from here!

oldmonkey wrote: Not much of a surfer are you?

I'm more than happy to cut any and all sarcasm, but that's precisely what greeted me when I knocked on the door here for the first time... pal.

Sarcasm is not my modus operandi, but I can dish it out as good as I get it. I can count on three fingers the forums I have had the time or interest in joining, and I rarely, if ever ever waste my time in engaging in sarcastic exchanges, particularly with moderators. I came to join, exchange thoughts and information, and be part of this community. If my initial post offended you, sorry. But whatever the owner of Inacurtis.org has done to piss everyone off so much (and I'll admit it seems justified) has nothing to do with me. This is my 5th post... so back off, I haven't even got my hat off.

Now, shall we start this over again?

Hi my name is Jake, and I've been a Joy Division fan since 1979, and more recently a fan of New Order. Although I bookmarked your site ages ago I never really spent any time here and thought I'd pop in to say hello...

Welcome Jake..

And dont worry about Tim.. we'll sort him out, next piss-up

Right then, that's that sorted. Welcome Jake, may you enjoy the site. The webmaster is also from Montreal (well, Laval anyway).

Thanks! I appreciate that! And I'm very happy to be a member!

I have seen this IanCurtis.org on EBAY he seems to buy up everything small or large, no price too much, no item he wont touch. He outbid me several times on many things, I also think that he also has done a few deals behind the scenes with the sellers and then they pull them off. What sort of rare stuff does he state he has. His Ebay name recently took a bit of a battering 42 bad feedbacks from the same guy!!!!!

This is better than Oprah!

With all that money you'd think he could afford a bit more bandwidth...

Exactly! He's the last guy who needs people chipping in to help fund his website!

the topics still open then?

Hello Jake,

Nice thread. I must admit myself I didn't realise that there was such animosity towards this "other" guy...

For lyrics try Deborah Curtis' book Touching From a Distance. It has a complete set of lyrics appended at the back and includes previously unseen (at least by me when I read it) stuff...

Other than that, welcome. There's a lot of people on here who know loads about the subject you're interested. A veritable mine of information.

And to echo Shug- What is it this guy has that he won't share?

Well he claims to have the other Erics August 79 set, Liverpool Mountford Hall 79, and I think the Rainbow 1980. He's quite happy to take but never gives! We know of a couple of "item ended early" episodes on eBay where the seller has been offered a huge wad to take the item down and do a private sale. I just thought it was quite ironic someone coming on here and in their first post requesting that we contribute to the upkeep of IanCurtis.org, the very man who is doing his utmost to deny the majority access to anything collectable regarding JD, which is the exact opposite of what this site is supposedly about!

Mr Walther is a greedy twat, can you imagine Duncan, Drew, Tim (O.M), Sam etc.. with the same self-centered attitudes - it would hardly be swops would it

oldmonkey wrote: Well he claims to have the other Erics August 79 set, Liverpool Mountford Hall 79, and I think the Rainbow 1980. He's quite happy to take but never gives! We know of a couple of "item ended early" episodes on eBay where the seller has been offered a huge wad to take the item down and do a private sale. I just thought it was quite ironic someone coming on here and in their first post requesting that we contribute to the upkeep of IanCurtis.org, the very man who is doing his utmost to deny the majority access to anything collectable regarding JD, which is the exact opposite of what this site is supposedly about!

Does anyone know where he lives

Have to say his attitude could never really endear him to all the people on here who are happy to share. And it's all rather against the grain for that old punk attitude and getting stuff out there as per Mr Hook...

Wonder what he's doing with it? Clearly it's hoarding. I can't imagine he sits listening to his rarities night after night...

Andrew Sayer wrote: Mr Walther is a greedy twat, can you imagine Duncan, Drew, Tim (O.M), Sam etc.. with the same self-centered attitudes - it would hardly be swops would it

Agreed 100%... have to say I'm grateful that people on here are happy to share even with new-comers to the site like myself.

Just don't understand that one-upmanship mentality personally

Well his Ebay I.D. says he's from switzerland??????

Shug wrote:

I am the same as any JD nutcase, I think I have every available gig (about 40 I think) - so would be intrigued to know if anything else has surfaced,

Good question Shuggly, how many JD gigs are out there?

i just counted mine there (out of curiousity) and ive got 51, (if anybody wants a list of them,pm me yer email )

oldmonkey wrote: Well he claims to have the other Erics August 79 set, Liverpool Mountford Hall 79, and I think the Rainbow 1980. He's quite happy to take but never gives! We know of a couple of "item ended early" episodes on eBay where the seller has been offered a huge wad to take the item down and do a private sale. I just thought it was quite ironic someone coming on here and in their first post requesting that we contribute to the upkeep of IanCurtis.org, the very man who is doing his utmost to deny the majority access to anything collectable regarding JD, which is the exact opposite of what this site is supposedly about!

Boo!

Indeed*!*

oldmonkey wrote: Well he claims to have the other Erics August 79 set, Liverpool Mountford Hall 79, and I think the Rainbow 1980. He's quite happy to take but never gives! We know of a couple of "item ended early" episodes on eBay where the seller has been offered a huge wad to take the item down and do a private sale. I just thought it was quite ironic someone coming on here and in their first post requesting that we contribute to the upkeep of IanCurtis.org, the very man who is doing his utmost to deny the majority access to anything collectable regarding JD, which is the exact opposite of what this site is supposedly about!

The guy also says that he's got lots of Ian's letters to Annik

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

The guy also says that he's got lots of Ian's letters to Annik

i reckon he's Ian. you never know.

King John Honest John wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

The guy also says that he's got lots of Ian's letters to Annik

i reckon he's Ian. you never know.

What, like Kennedy, Hitler and Jim Morrison are all alive and well and living out their dotage in comfort in Brazil

RichShan wrote:

King John Honest John wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

The guy also says that he's got lots of Ian's letters to Annik

i reckon he's Ian. you never know.

What, like Kennedy, Hitler and Jim Morrison are all alive and well and living out their dotage in comfort in Brazil

That's true indeed! But some people say that Bin Laden lives in UK

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

RichShan wrote:

King John Honest John wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

The guy also says that he's got lots of Ian's letters to Annik

i reckon he's Ian. you never know.

What, like Kennedy, Hitler and Jim Morrison are all alive and well and living out their dotage in comfort in Brazil

That's true indeed! But some people say that Bin Laden lives in UK

Nah, Bin Laden has his own suite at the Whitehouse

So he's got letters from Ian to Annik does he? At best that sounds implausible, what did she fall short of rent a few times and sold them on the "famous dead rock star love letter" market to make ends meet?

As much as I was confused by the reaction to my initial post, I am a bit appalled by what I am learning about Iancurtis.org. and its sociopath owner.

I did laugh when it was suggested the owner was Ian Curtis. If so he's likely bunking with Elvis, right? Not that they'd talk much...

So how does a newbie like myself get to hear some of the rarer stuff? I'll be completely honest, I've nothing from Joy Division or New Order to trade for it...

Ha ha another Old Monkey convert.

Join us, we will show you the way!

10 posts in a couple of days? Your quest may be over by the end of next week

OldMonkey. You know it makes sense.

If this Walther chap has wads of cash to buy all these 'artefacts' allegedly, why does he need contributions for his website?

Burt Reynolds wrote: If this Walther chap has wads of cash to buy all these 'artefacts' allegedly, why does he need contributions for his website?

He doesn't! And therein lies the initial response.

drugs.

Animadversion wrote: drugs.

we guessed that about you ages ago!

oldmonkey you might want to cover your nutsack and shaft before i kick it.lol.

TERRY HARROP wrote: Well he may have rare stuff but he hasn't got Ian's Kitchen Table, cuz my printers on it right now!!!!

Picture Turned up on JD Central while back. Didn't it.

Think, most Sites could make $Hand over Fist w/ better run Shops.

Jake wrote:

So how does a newbie like myself get to hear some of the rarer stuff? I'll be completely honest, I've nothing from Joy Division or New Order to trade for it...

New Order Birmingham 83

First time LWTUA was played by the Ordagh.

Woodsy, hope yer reading this...said the site was getting boring and this livened it up a bit.

and Jake, Tim must really be on to something here, as I have never seen him like this...he's one of the most level-headed moderators I've ever known...

but hey, at least it was an interesting intro, much better than the usual "when are NO touring in America" or "what are the lyrics to 1963".....

Big Black wrote:

Jake wrote:

So how does a newbie like myself get to hear some of the rarer stuff? I'll be completely honest, I've nothing from Joy Division or New Order to trade for it...

New Order Birmingham 83

First time LWTUA was played by the Ordagh.

Thank you, Christopher! I loved it. Finally I got a decently recorded concert from New Order!

The guy who runs Ian Curtis.org is renowned as a hoarder who buys everything remotely connected to JD up whenever it becomes available, often at inflated prices, as his own private collection

David Sultan is the owner?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Thank you, Christopher! I loved it. Finally I got a decently recorded concert from New Order!

No problem.

Here's the Summer Pops one if you're interested.

Server Error in "/" Application wrote:

The guy who runs Ian Curtis.org is renowned as a hoarder who buys everything remotely connected to JD up whenever it becomes available, often at inflated prices, as his own private collection

David Sultan is the owner?

No I am not sorry

I remember when we had this thread a few years ago about what you have in your JD/NO collection. This Iancurtis.org guy sent a list of his collection and i must say it was HUGE. Many pages and all JD nothing from NO. Strange thing was that lots of the stuff and record labels were something that i have not seen in any other discographies. Maybe he has made some own bootlegs to get larger collection. About those letters,if i remember right he had promised to Annik to never tell what they were about.

Big Black wrote: Here's the Summer Pops one if you're interested.

Cries an Whispers. Boston 1980. Homage. Boston '80. Mesh. Boston '80. Finally.. CW. Montréal 1983.

Originally TJs Stores. Gems. No promises if these work out.

Janezki wrote:

About those letters,if i remember right he had promised to Annik to never tell what they were about.

rofl; yes darling your letter are safe with me, anonymous internet creep

those letters are available in torn apart.

The Man Up North wrote: Hullo -- I thought I'd drop by and say that my name is Peter Petrelli, I'm wandering the streets of Montreal and I'm a cunt !

No, you are Win Butler and I claim my £40.

The Man Up North wrote: Hullo -- I thought I'd drop by and say that my name is Peter Petrelli, I'm wandering the streets of Montreal and I'm a cunt !

have you found the holy grail yet?

14 K wrote:

Big Black wrote: Here's the Summer Pops one if you're interested.

Cries an Whispers. Boston 1980. Homage. Boston '80. Mesh. Boston '80. Finally.. CW. Montréal 1983.

Originally TJs Stores. Gems. No promises if these work out.

Thanks to both of you

Spotnick wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: Right then, that's that sorted. Welcome Jake, may you enjoy the site. The webmaster is also from Montreal (well, Laval anyway).

That's the Montreal Metropolitan Area anyways... I live on the northern island, the bridge is 5 mins from here

And I live on the south shore. It's good to know one of the site's more active members lives so close! Perhaps you saw the premiere of Control at the Excentris on October 21st? I was there... the distributor kindly offered me two free tickets! Loved it...

Jake wrote:

It's good to know one of the site's more active members lives so close!

Yes, you spend far too much time here Spot!

And a shedload of English speakers who sort out all the fuck-ups