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This is an idea to start speculating on what you would want on an eventual Movement Remastered BONUS CD.
IN NO WAY THIS MEAN THIS PROJECT EXISTS, it's just for fun, and so we can eventually send the list to the labels so they would consider it, maybe.
But just maybe.
So, MOVEMENT 1981... what the hell would you want on a BONUS CD? rare tracks? live gig... what?
Curious to know if there are any alternate mixes, as Hannett and the band were no longer seeing eye to eye at that point and the band were on their way to producing themselves...
hmmm...a set of ear plugs might be nice...
sorry...just not a big fan of Movement...probably the least played disc I have from NO...
Maybe a couple of those weird and wonderful dubbed out primitive live versions of EGG or Temptation.
I think it would be good to include the Western Works Demos, and a live show, which would probably have to be one of Duncan's live recordings from the May 81 tour, maybe Stockholm, Brussels or Hamburg, all of which have long experimental EGGs. Talbot Tabernacle would be a good one as well.
Bit of TATTON COMMUNITY CENTRE Chorley.Would love to see this written in a booklet.RESPECT to you KNOW who for this. 
ROCKET MICK wrote: Bit of TATTON COMMUNITY CENTRE Chorley.Would love to see this written in a booklet.RESPECT to you KNOW who for this.
Sound quality's not good enough though Mick, it is a good performance but the sound isn't up to it and there is no soundboard.
Obvious would be Ceremony, In A Lonely Place, EGG and Procession all remastered, of course. Anyways, all the versions not on Substance... I know we have some of them on Singles, so it wouldn't be new.
Theme, Hommage and Haystack.
Spotnick wrote: Obvious would be Ceremony, In A Lonely Place, EGG and Procession all remastered, of course. Anyways, all the versions not on Substance... I know we have some of them on Singles, so it wouldn't be new.
Theme, Hommage and Haystack.
Theme? It's not New Order any more than Getting Away With It is, and Haystack has no place on a New Order compilation, they are merely the backing band playing someone else's song. Homage should be on any record representing the early years, as should Cries and Whispers and Mesh.
There's honestly not much I can think of that I'd be genuinely interested in...
That original In a Lonely Place 7inch that isn't on CD yet would be good.
How about a few tracks from soundchecks in 1980/81?
There are a few floating about and that means New Order doing many of the Movement tracks in their unfinished form, plus Joy Division tracks without Ian, which they didn't play in public again for another 5 - 6 years.
Either that or one of New Order's first gigs.
Of course: I
Hmmm, now it seems like in 1981 New Order were prolific as never thereafter.
Studio version of Dreams Never End but with the two vocal tracks switched so it would more like the live version.
I'd prefer a 3 CD set (or whatever the digital equivalent is) with one disk being devoted to a complete restructure of the album similar to the project P*** McC****** did with Let It Be (?? I think) where he took off all the Phil Spector stuff. I suspect the master tapes are in a Lancashire landfill site anyway....
Some of the live versions of the Movement tracks show how much better they'd be without the studio excess.
We've all already (I bet) done CD 2 of the collection ('Homage', all the 'b' sides, peel sessions etc etc)
I think my preference would be stuff that not even the most avid bootleg collector has heard yet - given that enough interesting things exist. Other than that I'd go with what Oldmonkey said. BooomBoom's Berlin tape would be great as well - the audience participation is almost nil but the performance is as inspired as anything New Order ever played.
Or maybe they could manage a bonus DVD with Celebration and find the entire Brussels 81 film somewhere. But that's a pipe dream. 
Colin Simpson wrote: I'd like the first every concert as NO
with the Western Works demo,as suggested by Tim
With Bernard not too keen on their live history, I imagine the chances of releasing what may have been their most shaky and uncertain performance ever are almost nil.
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Of course: I
- Ceremony
- In A Lonely Place
- Mesh
- Cries & Whispers
- Procession.
- Everything's Gone Green.
- Ceremony (with Gillian) II Western Demos (but with a better sound quality, off the tapes!) Movement alternate mixes (must exist, I presume) III Something live with top notch sound quality.
+1
western works demo,
granada celebration, cries and whisphers, mesh,
dreams never end from the 81 heaven gig. everythings gone green from the manchester ritz gig.
chris hook has(had) a tape of new order "experimental"stuff from 1980, whether this is the western demo ,i dont know, it was never meant for release.
some day ,youll find.
I really don't believe there is anything out there that we don't already have in one form or another, So I think Old Monkey got it right on his first post.
My wish would be for New Order to re-record the cd with Barneys vocals today, and much better producing. Even change ICB to the version on Community 2. But we all know that ain't going to happen.
I'm not a big fan of Movement. It is my least favorable New Order album.
But then, I would be interested in this project if they included unreleased versions of the early singles and B-sides.
Indeed*!*
Assuming Barney's looking the other way for a second, demos of all the 80/81 tracks (like The Cure did with their reissues), any experimental tracks that didn't make it to official release (even if they are just instrumentals) and The Beach Club gig.
You would think there could be some very potentially interesting alternate versions on this early stuff. Versions that are quite different from the Hannett final versions, if they exist in usable form.
Plus these early 80s live sets are very interesting. Bernard has to get some perspective and respect THEIR (all of them) past, which is great. If he is ashamed of his singing and playing? ... well the recent live DVDs have crappy singing also, plus embarrassing dancing plus the music is cleaner but much less spontaneous, and much less "live" for that matter. If he is ashamed of his early lyrics?... well many of his recent lyrics are pretty embarrassing, at least he had an excuse back then when he was new to being frontman. What is the issue here with Bernard? He doesn't mind the Joy Division hype, but doesn't seem to like the Factory 80s New Order years.
How about a remix disk of Movement songs? That has never been done as far as I know. Even as far as fan mixes go, I can't think of any other than my Doubts Even Here remix...
Another mix of Blue Monday... 
Anything from that period with better sound quality than what we already have... Or any live stuff that isn't already in the public domian...
Snorri xxx
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: How about a remix disk of Movement songs? That has never been done as far as I know. Even as far as fan mixes go, I can't think of any other than my Doubts Even Here remix...
Don't like that idea at all. No remixes!
FDISK wrote: Some of the live versions of the Movement tracks show how much better they'd be without the studio excess.
We've all already (I bet) done CD 2 of the collection ('Homage', all the 'b' sides, peel sessions etc etc)
Could just well be my Favourite Album. Yet, agreed far prefer Live takes of the Tunes.
Incl. a Live Disc.
Interested to hear if an '85 late Fall- early Winter show could get used. Once the Band was back on Home Soil.
simple really. remaster movement and tag on live versions of each song,there are plenty of great examples floating about of every song from that album. i.c.b. in particular was a great live track in my opinion,and dont just lift them from any one particular gig,cherry pick em from dates played at the time,pretty sure plenty on ere would be interested in something along them lines. ;)
these are easily my favorite years so i have made it a point to "own" every recording i can grab. a good balance to movement is the peel sessions. many of the same songs, quite different sound.
I like the idea of live tracks, but GOOD QUALITY ONES. I'm still amazed with the poor quality of recordings in Retro.
Definitely has to have the unreleased version of In A Lonely Place which has never come to CD and is far superior to the one on Substance b-sides disc.
Western Works would be good.
A 1981-82 type disc to sweep up the 7" of Hurt and remasters of Temptation/EGG/Mesh/Cries and Whispers.
Not so fussed about live stuff but as that is what has happened with JD then it would always be interesting to hear. Dunno about cherry picking, it makes sense but it would be more likely to be one gig.
Ben wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Of course: I
- Ceremony
- In A Lonely Place
- Mesh
- Cries & Whispers
- Procession.
- Everything's Gone Green.
- Ceremony (with Gillian) II Western Demos (but with a better sound quality, off the tapes!) Movement alternate mixes (must exist, I presume) III Something live with top notch sound quality.
+1
oldmonkey wrote: I think it would be good to include the Western Works Demos, and a live show, which would probably have to be one of Duncan's live recordings from the May 81 tour, maybe Stockholm, Brussels or Hamburg, all of which have long experimental EGGs. Talbot Tabernacle would be a good one as well.
agreed. an early live show would be a good idea.
however, i almost never listen to movement, so i don't know if i'd buy it, remastered CD or not.
i remember cameras at the ritz with barney launching a beer can into a lighting rig. that was my first gig, so, personally would be good to see that?? did any of it surface????
Not heard that before! Maybe it was another Ikon job like the others we haven't seen since (Rotterdam 85, Macclesfield 85, G-Mex 86)
Which is the early gig where Barney smacks himself on the head with the microphone?
Put that one on disc 2.
I've been so stingey latley with my cd purchases that I could afford it if New Order would release a three cd set of each album for remasters. The album on disc 1, demos, tracks that never got finished and alternate mixes on disc 2 and a live show on disc 3. And of course expanded packages like lyrics, notes, photos etc...
I would just like to know what's out there first of all.
dave ball wrote, i remember cameras at the ritz
indeed they were there , i was on the balcony just behind the ikon tec guys who spent ages getting an image up,,the gig was special though and i would want everythings gone green from this gig on any compiliation . there was a factory night in manchester in feb 1982 non of this footage was used though loads of other stuff was, never heard of it being played shame , cos barney looked funny eating his mic,, thats what drugs do i suppose:D
johnny james wrote: Not heard that before! Maybe it was another Ikon job like the others we haven't seen since (Rotterdam 85, Macclesfield 85, G-Mex 86)
Does any of this IKON footage still exist I wonder?
Something like Macclesfield 85 would be a great dvd, it is a real shame that there are no UK gigs from the mid 80's on DVD.
I know there is the Academy VHS, even a reissue of that without the visual effects... and that Bloody interview!
Call me Old Skool but why don't people just leave things as they lie?!
Surely everyone's got everything that's available? Or do you just need them all in pretty little packaging?
If things weren't deemed suitable for release 25 years ago I still don't understand why people think the band should release them now?
Then again, I don't spot trains either. 
Leave Movement as it is for now. Brotherhood and Low Life need to be remastered far more urgently.
Gary wrote:
johnny james wrote: Not heard that before! Maybe it was another Ikon job like the others we haven't seen since (Rotterdam 85, Macclesfield 85, G-Mex 86)
Something like Macclesfield 85 would be a great dvd, it is a real shame that there are no UK gigs from the mid 80's on DVD.
Official DVDs of mid 80s gigs you mean?
El Jarvo wrote:
Then again, I don't spot trains either.
Fuck me Al,ye dont know what yer missin!
oldmonkey wrote:
Gary wrote:
johnny james wrote: Not heard that before! Maybe it was another Ikon job like the others we haven't seen since (Rotterdam 85, Macclesfield 85, G-Mex 86)
Something like Macclesfield 85 would be a great dvd, it is a real shame that there are no UK gigs from the mid 80's on DVD.
Official DVDs of mid 80s gigs you mean?
yeah, the camcorder ones are a good record, but not always the most watchable!
Phoenix Hall, Sheffield, 23 September 1981. Would be a great set to put on a bonus disc. Especially if there's a soundboard floating around the archives of it. Nice tight gig that could appeal to even a casual fan.
Just so long as they do it properly, and include the early singles properly (and definitely NO fecking about with potentially suspect alternate versions), anything else would be a bonus.
Come to think of it, Movement + Singles would fit on 1 disc, so gimme a live as well.
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: How about a remix disk of Movement songs? That has never been done as far as I know. Even as far as fan mixes go, I can't think of any other than my Doubts Even Here remix...
Terrible idea. Sorry, but your DEH should never get any further than wherever it got on Community, and the idea of putting it on an official New Order release is a bit like putting Scott Carson in goal.
I reckon an interview with the band thrown on at the end of the bonus would be good too, if it's good quality and it contains some interesting facts. As well as some live cuts, and some demos.
Not really fussed because we have it all anyway, but someone suggested a Movement with new BS vocals. I'd love to hear that!
Personally I like Bernard's vocals on Movement... it was a very dark record, and his dark tones suited it perfectly.
One thing I definitely DO NOT want to hear is any kind of reworking of the original material. No remixes, no new vocals etc.
NO remixes, NO new vocals, NO revisionist history!
Carefully remastered demos, associated single A and B sides (including the Christams flexi), and live material, like Pet Shop Boys have done with their catalogue. It should be a perfect time capsule of 1981-1982.
Geri wrote: Not really fussed because we have it all anyway, but someone suggested a Movement with new BS vocals. I'd love to hear that!
greater chance of IC resurrecting. 
a) the Beach Club gig b) the original Ceremony/IALP/C&W/Mesh/Procession/EGG/... c) the WW demos
Ben wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Of course: I
- Ceremony
- In A Lonely Place
- Mesh
- Cries & Whispers
- Procession.
- Everything's Gone Green.
- Ceremony (with Gillian) II Western Demos (but with a better sound quality, off the tapes!) Movement alternate mixes (must exist, I presume) III Something live with top notch sound quality.
+1
+1 
JPS wrote:
Geri wrote: Not really fussed because we have it all anyway, but someone suggested a Movement with new BS vocals. I'd love to hear that!
greater chance of IC resurrecting.
Oh I'm sure it'll never happen, but for comparisons' sake it'd be interesting. Having said that, I'd be just as happy if they don't touch it at all. It's a beautiful piece of work as it is 
How about some good songs? You know the ones they hid away in the attic whilst they put a bunch of rubbish ones on the album:
A DVD of Melanie C licking honey out of my bottom... Oh and the Peel Sessions to show how much better 'Movement' would've been with simpler production.
Debaser wrote: How about some good songs? You know the ones they hid away in the attic whilst they put a bunch of rubbish ones on the album:
Agreed! :p
For once, I would like an actual album sleeve, with lyrics, credits and made even a photo or two. Call me crazy.
I think it would be cool if the band revisited all of the tracks on it. Like re-recorded and perhaps updated accordingly. It would be cool to see their interpretation of work they did 25 years ago. Won't happen since their broken up...but it would be fun anyway.
With Movement, I'd like to see the band remaster it AND remix it as they see fit. Now that they've obviously learned how to produce their own music of course :D I would just be curious to see if they'd really change that much...I mean, Disc would could be the original album with disc 2 as NOs version, maybe even a few alt mixes of Ceremony slapped onto the end would be nice :\ohwell:
It would have to be really good to get me to buy another (after the original vinyl, and the London CD) version of Movement.
I'd want:
If there's still room, then 4) one each of the best live versions of the classic tracks.
Here's what I'd put on disc 2 to compliment a remastered Movement as disc 1:
I believe I might have started a thread on this a while back, might have been on another board though. This is the ONLY album of theirs I'd like to see a new mix on. If memory serves, the band wasn't thrilled w/the original mix to begin. Compared to the rest of Hannett's work, it's pretty subpar.
The production is really muddy and lifeless. Most of the songs sound much better when played live. As far as extras, I think everyone else has pretty much hit everything I'd like already.
the album in a version the band find listenable. my iTunes playlist sees every track replaced by the Peel Session version wherever possible.
For a bonus disc? A well recorded compilation of all the live tracks in the set at the time, and some demos.
As it's by far the BEST production of any New Order recd, I'd go for :
CD1 : Original album remastered + Western Works demos + Haystack
CD2 : Two gigs, if there's room. One could be Blackpool 1980, if it could be cleaned up enough. Then another good 'un from the middle of 1981. Maybe Reading? I expect Tim would know what the best available recordings/performances are.
I don't see any point putting multiple versions of Ceremony/EGG/Tempt/Hurt/IALP on there, most of which are available elsewhere. I suppose you could make a case for Cries & Whispers and Mesh to sneak onto CD1.
Can't honestly see why Haystack should be included, just because they played as Kevin Hewick's backing band in one session. It's not exactly a New Order song, is it? May as well include jams of various covers they've done over the years at soundchecks etc.
Bloody completists... 
To be quite honest unless someone (and I'm sure Cambo will tell me it can't be done) can improve the quality of the sound/production/recording/my ears and raise the overall experience from turgid to perhaps mildly leaden, is it really worth it?
Snorri xxx
A well recorded gig from the period, a cleaned up version of the Heaven soundcheck, and some demos or alternate mixes
2 discs. 1 - original album remastered. 2 - re-recorded version.
Interesting, but highly unlikely. 
ROCKET MICK1 wrote: WELCOME back DAVID
Cheers matey. Good to be back! Why did I go? I don't really know?
Long live New Order....
Movement is a great album. Truth has to be one of my favourites so I would also like the Peely versions added onto this package!
The Paradise Man wrote:
ROCKET MICK1 wrote: WELCOME back DAVID
Movement is a great album. Truth has to be one of my favourites so I would also like the Peely versions added onto this package!
But the Peely version (good as they are), have been released multiple times already. I'd go for the live Stockholm and/or Blackpool gigs mentioned earlier.
Re-recording idea is interesting. I'd read somewhere that the band wasn't happy with this this album's sound/mix. I've also read the same thing about Brotherhood interestingly.
Movement is my favorite NO album!
This may be a stupid yank question, but is there a quality difference in the US CD version released in 1992 and the UK CD version released in 2000? 
Beats me.
What I definitely don't want are incomplete bits of recorded gigs. Then all future torrents of those gigs no DimeaDozen would have to miss out the released bits, just as happened with the Retro live disk.
I vote for 'the entire album re-recorded by Glasnost'. In fact I vote that for the second disk on all these threads. That version of Turn on C2 was lovely.
Pulled this cd out of the archive yesterday and gave it a spin. Does anyone else think that these songs are aging quite well? It doesn't seem to be as dated as some of their later 80s work to me (though it could definitely use a remaster to make it a little louder and punchier).
My vote would be for disc 2 as a dvd with either Manchester Feb 1981 Comanche Students Union or Birmingham Jan 82 Imperial Cinema. I'm pretty sure that all or most of these concerts were recorded.
JeffMo wrote: Pulled this cd out of the archive yesterday and gave it a spin. Does anyone else think that these songs are aging quite well? It doesn't seem to be as dated as some of their later 80s work to me (though it could definitely use a remaster to make it a little louder and punchier).
Yes actually-- it does hold up well. I don't know what everyone's problem is with this album. I mean, sure, songs are all inspired by someone's suicide and it turned out a little gloomy and monotonous and the vocals do sound like they're coming from somewhere beneath the floorboards as one reviewer wrote, but that's no reason to be so dismissive.
Ian Shadrack wrote: My vote would be for disc 2 as a dvd with either Manchester Feb 1981 Comanche Students Union or Birmingham Jan 82 Imperial Cinema. I'm pretty sure that all or most of these concerts were recorded.
I'd go with Ian re. the Manchester gig-the best live version of Ceremony(with all the correct lyrics!)that I've personally heard(I'd say the guys that used to run Ikon FCL would have that gig stashed on videotape somewhere-it was featured on Fact 56-A Factory Video).
The Paradise Man wrote: 2 discs. 1 - original album remastered. 2 - re-recorded version. Interesting, but highly unlikely.
Oh yeah,I'll have some of that!
Not gonna happen tho' is it
Do you know,I was with someone recently who had seen Joy Division live & was also at N.O.'s Comanche Students Union gig.I hate the fooker.Bastard 
It's probably not possible, but I'd like all of the songs remastered such that the vocals are actually understandable. This has always been my least favorite NO album, but I've discovered a new appreciation for it thanks to the wonders of the internet, and the fact that I can actually get at the lyrics and figure out what the heck Barney was saying!
How about throwing Mesh on there, for us Americans with the US release of Substance, with 'Cries and Whispers' mislabeled as 'Mesh'? As far as I know, Mesh is unavailable in any American release.
For this one (which has the ugliest artwork by Saville to my opinion ) the remastered 1st disc will do the most 'upgrading' of all, I think.
There are a few songs from Substance 1987 which belongs on a 2nd disc (Ceremony (two versions), In A Lonely Place (2 versions), Cries & Whispers (which was mentioned as Mesh on Substance 1987), Procession, Everything's Gone Green.
And ofcourse the REAL Mesh (which appears on the Everything's Gone Green CD single/12" from Factory Benelux.
Finally the 7 inch and 12 inch versions of Temptation and Hurt BELONG to this 2nd disc also.
That's the trick that will work fine for me.
Knocked Movement into the CD player yestyerday and to be honest it din't do it for me. Like the first 'n' last tracks, otherwise it's all lacklustre 'n' any energy the songs have is smothered by inappropriate production. The Peel sesh works better for me.
Disc 1
Disc 2
Without a bunch of demos and low quality live tracks, I'd actually listen to a bonus disc like this a lot like a stand alone album. Although the second disc contains Peel session versions of songs that belong on PC&L, they were recorded in 1982 and still sound much like their early pre-Blue Monday era.
The problem with a tracklist like this is that you lose the impact of what originally made up the album 'Movement'. It's far better not to tamper with the original album as it stood despite the fact that you can now fit 80 minutes of music on a disc, if it were a blu-ray disc you could fit hours but that doesn't mean you have to fill it.
The album is the album.
johnny james wrote: The problem with a tracklist like this is that you lose the impact of what originally made up the album 'Movement'. It's far better not to tamper with the original album as it stood despite the fact that you can now fit 80 minutes of music on a disc, if it were a blu-ray disc you could fit hours but that doesn't mean you have to fill it.
The album is the album.
Surprisingly, I've made my own version of Movement based on the exact track listing for Disc 1, and with the exception of Temptation and Hurt, it flows together perfectly since all the tracks have Martin Hannett's production. Being in chronological order shows their growth as a band, plus having the 7" and 12" versions of the singles divided between two separate discs makes them less repetitious. I would listen to Disc 2 on it's own as a full album, whereas if I had a bonus disc of repeating songs I'd be skipping through it a lot.
I'm sure the tracks all sound ok together, it's not the album that was released in 1981 though. You shouldn't rewrite history.
