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Respect...

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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.

I would like to take again the opportunity to tell everyone to READ the Terms of Use & Community Standards.

And I would like to take also the opportunity to tell you to please respect the topic a little more, I know it can't be 100% about New Order, but there is a certain limit to respect, if you want to talk about the FIFA World Cup, gee, start a football thread, not 100!!

And I would also like to ask a few of our latest members to respect others and use lower cases in there messages, using only upper cases is kind of agressive, this usually is used (from my 12 years of chat and electronic exchange experience) for yelling, this is very annoying and I'm sure I'm not the only one to feel that way...

So based on all the recent events, I had no choice to ban a first user since a LONG time, due to abuse of the system and personal attack over another member of the site, this person is Tim Jauncey aka Fred West, which posted hate mail, posted hate information in his profile, I can't tolerate this kind of behaviour, so he's suspended until further notice, until he can proove he can stop acting like a child.

And this goes for everyone, if you want to be a user here, you will have to repect the guidelines and the authorities of this site, sometimes it might not seem fair, but there is a civilized way of doing things, and I think I'm doing this the right way, I gave the opportunity to people to do mistakes, but I sure don't allow them to continue doing them after a serious warning.

I hope this will close the debate, I hope everyone will move forward and stop this non-sense (and this applies to EVERYONE, webmaster or not).

Please use this system with respect of other people and of the topic, we had several complaints about people not using the forum anymore because it was full of off-topic posts or personal posts, even I don't read all the posts like I used to because there is no interest, we are trying to make the forum more interesting for everyone to enjoy, and not only for specific people, I sure hope everyone understand this, this doesn't mean we are selecting our users or everything, we just think that personnal matter and personal stuff should be done privatly in email.

I hope this is okay with everyone, I'm willing to accept your comment on this, bad or good, you can either do it publicly, or privately, as you want, but in respect and in a constructive way, nobody's perfect, and maybe our vision of what this forum should be is not the best one.

Thanks.

Nicolas LeBlanc Webmaster NewOrderOnline.com

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I have read them and will try my best sir. Rocket Mick

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This place is not as fun as it used to be. No offense to you, but posting this notice is sort of wierd. at least to me........it gives me the goonie goos!

if it aint Factus.................

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What are they? Rocket Inquiry

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This is ground control to Major Tom.... Loud & Clear Nicos :nod: Sorry to take this slightly O/T....but what are the chances of our good friends making a return? I have had quite a few e-mails concerning this subject, and it appears that everyone would love em to return, obviously myself included! The place simply isn't the same - which makes me kinda sad - people are missing out on genuine insights and information concerning the band, can this situation be resolved? I feel like breaking into "A bridge over trobled water" :D

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yeah and get rid of that nasty ROCKET....:)

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/19/2002 1:44:17 PM EDT]

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Sorry to hear that ROSE,can i have his collection of records? Rocket the Mick

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Originally posted by Rose West

bloody hell, how poignant! which genius wrote that then?

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I think it is very good that we all do respect each other some more. You know, people are different, have different opinions, different tasts, etc.

That's what makes a forum interesting. Let's all respect each other (even if you are from a country that did not play at the football world cup, oops, sorry, O/T :D ).

And I do hope that this respect will be applicable to everybody, meaning both members/readers of this site and ...

... yep, you know what I mean.

Cheers to you all! Let's all keep up the good new order spirit!!!

DJ

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Dutch are u on one or what? :) ROCKET NATO

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ROCKET HAVE WE GOT TO TAKE the caps lock off!!! i feel naked

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yes it is quite nice once the tablets kick in and i sound more intelligent...so give it a try Paul. ROCKET MICK :) :nod:

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The Mecca Bingo Hall that was a DANCE HALL must be REBUILT. :lol:

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WELL I HAVE JUST COME BACK FROM WORK AND UNTIL I HAVE HAD A DRINK...CAPS LOCK REMAIN ON...

P.S LOOKING FORWARD TO MY POSTMAN VISITING...I HOPE MY DOG DONT GET HIM FIRST!!

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Originally posted by Rocket FLO Sorry to hear that ROSE,can i have his collection of records? Rocket the Mick

HAHAHA ... Another classic Mick !!

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Yes but i meant it...:lol:

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Originally posted by ShugZV This is ground control to Major Tom....Loud & Clear Nicos :nod:Sorry to take this slightly O/T....but what are the chances of our good friends making a return? I have had quite a few e-mails concerning this subject, and it appears that everyone would love em to return, obviously myself included!The place simply isn't the same - which makes me kinda sad - people are missing out on genuine insights and information concerning the band, can this situation be resolved?I feel like breaking into "A bridge over trobled water" :D

I would have no problem at all with it, this used to be a friendly place, I just hope it will return this way as quickly as possible.

But some people will have to behave in order for this to happen.

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/19/2002 1:44:44 PM EDT]

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Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by ShugZV This is ground control to Major Tom....Loud & Clear Nicos :nod:Sorry to take this slightly O/T....but what are the chances of our good friends making a return? I have had quite a few e-mails concerning this subject, and it appears that everyone would love em to return, obviously myself included!The place simply isn't the same - which makes me kinda sad - people are missing out on genuine insights and information concerning the band, can this situation be resolved?I feel like breaking into "A bridge over trobled water" :D

I would have no problem at all with it, this used to be a friendly place, I just hope it will return this way as quickly as possible.

But some people will have to behave in order for this to happen.I already asked this question in a previous thread afew days ago and was told that there would be no way that these people would be allowed to return.

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Not that I post here often, but it really isn't as fun as it used to be. I know a lot of people who used to post here including myself who don't anymore because of too much talk about drunkeness and footie. I don't have a problem with it, but it is ridiculous when there are a lot of threads on it that say the same thing over and over and.....well ya get the picture!:D

Missing lots of the NOOL members.:( I wonder if any of them will ever come back? :skeptic: I sure hope so! It would be nice to have some fun around here. ;)

Hey, what happened to my almost 100 posts that I had? ;);) It Looks like I must start from scratch then? I best get busy.

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Give Nic a bit of credit, His mate's put him in a tough position by being clearly a bit pyscho - plus as he states there needs to be a balance between off/t and on/t, otherwise it does end up becoming boring. It's his site, his messageboard, so lets respect his wishes.

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I'll actually support the right of the webmasters to ban people they feel are abusing their priveleges. Karen James anyone? Although she/he/it didn't offend me personally, not without trying mind, 'it' obviously put a few people's backs out here and it seems the majority were pleased to see 'it' go.

I do have to say though, from where I'm sitting, it did actually look like Seb threw the first punch. And missed wildly. At least where Sloppy was concerned. I've said v.nice things about this site in the past and have obviously met many people via said forum - not only the Brit-based fans, but even as far abroad as DC, CTB and AWOL A.Reed, half the bloody planet away. But I, for one, was truly gobsmacked when it was suggested that "all the regular posters should f'off over to World In Motion" (or whatever was actually, very unnecessarily, implied). Or that grown men shouldn't post regularly to this site and instead should perhaps [ahem] get a life! An unnecessary reaction which has, sadly, snowballed further unnecessary reactions from other members.

I'd quite like to see Tim back, cos obviously I've met him on numerous occasions, even away from the Order. He was one of the stalwarts of the forum. And obviously I agree that he should perhaps learn to bite his tongue at certain points, even when affronted. Learn. To. Rise. Above. It. We'd all be stupid to bite the hand that feeds us. At the end of the day, it is someone else's ball and they're always gonna have the right to choose who does and doesn't play with it.

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Would it be possible to name who has been banned and for what reason? ... members sometimes change names and its difficult to work out just who and who hasn't been ousted. Sebastien's personal differences or drifting 'off-topic' surely cannot be the sole reason for the recent mass expulsion? Nick does a great job in calming the forum down, which can't be easy as it would seem, that problems emanate mostly from his counterpart. The creation and continued running of the site is duly commendable also.

British or not, it appears that a hardcore NO massive has been removed to the detrimant of both the forum and the forum users. It would be foolish to think that the community on this website is not now missing out on a vibrant and integral part of the NO fanbase. As Jeff the boy White (aka 'The Jessie') pointed out, after his visit to a NO gig in the UK (it could have been anywhere) and meeting fans who posted at this forum ... where were they when he returned to the States?

Hurtful posts and personal attacks, obviously, should not be tolerated anywhere, and 'off-topic' posts should be curbed as much as possible in an effort to keep the NO discussions at a premium. A little dancing around the subject doesn't harm though and keeps us all active.

:hat:

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I work in the same office as Tim......he's asked me to forward this onto you Huntsman, as he tried to e-mail it you but your e-mail address bounced.


"Seeing as I have lost right of reply on the board, I'll respond to your question personally. Basically all this started when Seb banned Muffy and co a couple of weeks ago. For some hitherto unexplained reason, I was also banned. I requested a reason from them, but was told by Seb that he had banned me because I was "stupid", "an idiot", and that he didn't like me, somewhat contravening his own rules and regulations he likes to wave under our noses........

I already had another account from way back when some of us got locked out by a database problem, so started using that under the guise of Rose West. Seb began automatically deleting all my postings for no reason, regardless of content. I got my back up and started trying to wind him up a bit, as what he was doing was abusing me on the board, then covering his tracks whenever Nic was online.

Now Nic has kicked me, and Rose, out of the site altogether, with the proviso that I can return when I learn how to behave. Maybe he should take a look at his colleague before he starts throwing his weight around.

For my part, I have no wish to return to be a puppet at the mercy of the Boisvert ego, if he is beyond reproach for his antics. I have collected a number of e-mail addresses of regular and valued correspondents, and if I need to contact anyone, can do so through e-mail or on any of the other fora."


Webmasters please note that I am a messenger here, not a co-conspirator.....

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Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by ShugZV This is ground control to Major Tom....Loud & Clear Nicos :nod:Sorry to take this slightly O/T....but what are the chances of our good friends making a return? I have had quite a few e-mails concerning this subject, and it appears that everyone would love em to return, obviously myself included!The place simply isn't the same - which makes me kinda sad - people are missing out on genuine insights and information concerning the band, can this situation be resolved?I feel like breaking into "A bridge over trobled water" :D

I would have no problem at all with it, this used to be a friendly place, I just hope it will return this way as quickly as possible.

But some people will have to behave in order for this to happen.

Yes, some people will have to behave.

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Originally posted by Jenny Walton I work in the same office as Tim......he's asked me to forward this onto you Huntsman, as he tried to e-mail it you but your e-mail address bounced. * "Seeing as I have lost right of reply on the board, I'll respond to your question personally. Basically all this started when Seb banned Muffy and co a couple of weeks ago. For some hitherto unexplained reason, I was also banned. I requested a reason from them, but was told by Seb that he had banned me because I was "stupid", "an idiot", and that he didn't like me, somewhat contravening his own rules and regulations he likes to wave under our noses........I already had another account from way back when some of us got locked out by a database problem, so started using that under the guise of Rose West. Seb began automatically deleting all my postings for no reason, regardless of content. I got my back up and started trying to wind him up a bit, as what he was doing was abusing me on the board, then covering his tracks whenever Nic was online.Now Nic has kicked me, and Rose, out of the site altogether, with the proviso that I can return when I learn how to behave. Maybe he should take a look at his colleague before he starts throwing his weight around.For my part, I have no wish to return to be a puppet at the mercy of the Boisvert ego, if he is beyond reproach for his antics. I have collected a number of e-mail addresses of regular and valued correspondents, and if I need to contact anyone, can do so through e-mail or on any of the other fora." * Webmasters please note that I am a messenger here, not a co-conspirator.....

I've asked on a number of times for my e-mail address to be changed and my profile be removed from general view. I know Nick's busy but if he could modify these settings for me it would be appreciated otherwise I will continue to miss e-mails from people.

Tim (via JW) ... thanks for the explanation which I'm sure everyone will have found interesting, if not very surprising. It seems evident that a great deal of contradiction has and is taking place. Perhaps if things alter with the running of this site you and others will hopefully return. The misconception that the forum is bigger than a considerable amount of true NO fans is clear, at least you can keep in touch via e-mail for the moment. I would like to clarify that I continue to post in the hope that everyone is re-instated (like I was) and because this site is the single most important NO contact point on the internet, possibly the world (as the net can be accessed internationally by so many).

I'll send you my own e-mail address now for future reference.

:hat:

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Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by Rose West> Just thought you should all know.......Fred's hanged himself. He couldn't deal with the enormity and severity of his crimes, so took what would be seen by many to be an appropriately altruistic way out. In his letter to me, he wished to pass on his apologies to anyone who suffered at the hands of his keyboard, in particular that nice little French-Canadian guy with the inferiority complex. He hopes you all have pleasant lives, even though one of you will never ever be able to have a pleasant life.> > As somebody once wrote, love will tear us apart.

BTW, what does the fact that I am French-Canadian have to do in this thing anyway?

It seems one or two of arguments descended into farce partly down to the language barrier and that's just from where I've been able to read between the lines. I'm not saying this has always been the case but it is a factor when even amongst native English speakers, a web based forum can lead to mis-understandings. The above would seem a good example of a an insult being thrown and the recipient not being the target.

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Can anyone provide me with Tim's e-mail address as Jenny's address (above) is faulty goods.

:hat:

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It works alright to everyone else ! Just checked it, and I've had one other e-mail today already, so it does work.

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Originally posted by Jenny Walton It works alright to everyone else ! Just checked it, and I've had one other e-mail today already, so it does work.

I've sent it again ... could you check please?

:hat:

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Yes, got it now, and have forwarded it onto Tim. He asked me not to give his e-mail address out on here, as he has this morning had an abusive e-mail from Sebastien Boisvert.

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
> Originally posted by Spotnick> > > > Originally posted by Rose West> > Just thought you should all know.......Fred's hanged himself. He couldn't deal with the enormity and severity of his crimes, so took what would be seen by many to be an appropriately altruistic way out. In his letter to me, he wished to pass on his apologies to anyone who suffered at the hands of his keyboard, in particular that nice little French-Canadian guy with the inferiority complex. He hopes you all have pleasant lives, even though one of you will never ever be able to have a pleasant life.> > > > As somebody once wrote, love will tear us apart. >

BTW, what does the fact that I am French-Canadian have to do in this thing anyway?

It seems one or two of arguments descended into farce partly down to the language barrier and that's just from where I've been able to read between the lines. I'm not saying this has always been the case but it is a factor when even amongst native English speakers, a web based forum can lead to mis-understandings. The above would seem a good example of a an insult being thrown and the recipient not being the target.

On the subject of possible misunderstandings based on language differences, I have inquired of Nicolas whether the precipitating post was one that said in its entirety "X baiting" (not X in the original) but he has not responded. If that was it, it certainly seems to me the response was wholly unwarranted.

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Originally posted by Jenny Walton Yes, got it now, and have forwarded it onto Tim. He asked me not to give his e-mail address out on here, as he has this morning had an abusive e-mail from Sebastien Boisvert.

Cheers! ... my server must have been playing up. It was my own faulty goods. Tell Tim to keep his chins up.

:hat:

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P, care to expand on your theory? ... I know sometimes I'm cryptic but your last post rivalled the schematic for the space shuttle.

:hat:

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Originally posted by Huntsman P, care to expand on your theory? ... I know sometimes I'm cryptic but your last post rivalled the schematic for the space shuttle.:hat:

I forget what thread it was in, Huntsy, but the post was as I described it. As I said in my e-mail to Nicolas, "baiting" to me means taunting, but I thought it was possible he may have misinterpreted this word.

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[Content deleted by Grand Master B on 6/19/2002 12:04:39 PM EDT]

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I don't think anyone can be as sincere as Howard Jones.

:hat:

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Originally posted by Huntsman I don't think anyone can be as sincere as Howard Jones.:hat:

Who?

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Originally posted by Huntsman I don't think anyone can be as sincere as Howard Jones.:hat:

I am assured by you-know-who that the "more sincere than Howard Jones and twice as cheap" quote refers to a 1985 gig, and is a direct Barney quotation. Birmingham Tower Ballroom he thinks !

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Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Huntsman> I don't think anyone can be as sincere as Howard Jones.> > :hat:

Who?

Patty the man Howard Jones I thought had some success Stateside? - for the uninitiated he 'was' a fairly big hitter in the 80's approx. 1982 - 1986 ... he had a fairly commendable flick reaching almost 15" from the base of his forehead and he released singable tunes from his varied selection of synthesizers. 'Like to Get to Know you Well' and other 'hits' charted HJ in the top 10 on many occassions. He appeared on Live Aid but you might not have seen his face through his wig.

I wouldn't go looking for his back catalogue though P.

:hat:

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And was he really sincere, or did he just put on a good act?

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Originally posted by Patrick And was he really sincere, or did he just put on a good act?

Well, his hair certainly looked serious.

I doubt Barney researched too much into his comments at the gig, and I would be surprised if Jonesy was even aware of the band New Order back in '85.

:hat:

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So, any thoughts on "baiting," Huntsy? Is "X baiting" the worst insult you can imagine?

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Originally posted by Patrick So, any thoughts on "baiting," Huntsy? Is "X baiting" the worst insult you can imagine?

I'm still unsure of the detail. I only caught the last glimpses of the recent occurrence before SB deleted most of it. Has there been some taunting from SB to other parties? ... if so, it only adds fuel to the fire which seems to be gaining some considerable momentum. I thought the comment (not sure who by) that SB hasn't made a reference to NO in a long time, other than to say he didn't like them and thought GR was crap (paraphrasing), was very amusing and somewhat poignant. A telling reminder of the core problem.

:hat:

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The problem with the recent 'in-fighting' is the perception of unfairness and unequal treatment that current and former users feel.

I think that until this is addressed in some way alot of people will be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.

Nic - I'm not sure whether you saw a previous post of mine, but I did ask what your take on the whole situation was. It seems that Seb can 'getaway' with the same sort of 'abuse' that other people have been banned for.

This really is an excellent site but the last few weeks have been somewhat uncomfortable. If it wasn't for the general humour of people like Rocket Mick and Shugsy and the return of the Huntsman the forum would be very depressing at the moment.

I also don't buy 'this is my site, I can do what I want' way of thinking. If it wasn't for the diversity of the people who use the forum I don't think that there would be as many members. The webmasters should be rightly applauded for setting the whole thing up but its the fans from all over the world who make this site what it is.

I can't see why both parties can't agree to apologise to each other for percieved injustices and then we can try and get back to some sort of normality - New Order Online's very own reconcilation tribunal.
;)

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Bring Judge Judy in!

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Then bar ROCKET MICK............................:lol:

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I think we should all meet down the allotments after school and punch it out! Come tooled up!

New Order fans! There can be only one!

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Great idea i'll get me skinners and my DOCs and me BIG mates in case it kicks off man. ROCKET TALK THE TALK BUT CAN'T WALK THE WALK MICK where is my copy of CLOCKWORK ORANGE?

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To paraphrase Barney:

"I don't give a fuck really but it sounds good"

Seriously though, let's SORT IT AHHHTT.

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i don't give a fuck either so meet me at the KFC!

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Originally posted by Mickey Way The problem with the recent 'in-fighting' is the perception of unfairness and unequal treatment that current and former users feel.I think that until this is addressed in some way alot of people will be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.Nic - I'm not sure whether you saw a previous post of mine, but I did ask what your take on the whole situation was. It seems that Seb can 'getaway' with the same sort of 'abuse' that other people have been banned for.This really is an excellent site but the last few weeks have been somewhat uncomfortable. If it wasn't for the general humour of people like Rocket Mick and Shugsy and the return of the Huntsman the forum would be very depressing at the moment.I also don't buy 'this is my site, I can do what I want' way of thinking. If it wasn't for the diversity of the people who use the forum I don't think that there would be as many members. The webmasters should be rightly applauded for setting the whole thing up but its the fans from all over the world who make this site what it is.I can't see why both parties can't agree to apologise to each other for percieved injustices and then we can try and get back to some sort of normality - New Order Online's very own reconcilation tribunal. ;)

If you play football(soccer) with someone who takes his ball home when someone gives him a tough tackle, you think twat and moan and bitch about him behind his back. If however he kicks his ball on to a roof and can't manage to shin up a drainpipe to get it back, so you get up and rescue it for him, just prior to the tackle.......

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... what if the ball were to veer onto the road and be popped by a passing motorcycle rider?

:hat:

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Originally posted by Huntsman ... what if the ball were to veer onto the road and be popped by a passing motorcycle rider?:hat:

You'd say "it was a shit ball anyway! let's club together for a trophy or a casey."

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
> Originally posted by Huntsman> ... what if the ball were to veer onto the road and be popped by a passing motorcycle rider?> > :hat:

You'd say "it was a shit ball anyway! let's club together for a trophy or a casey."

what about one of them slightly plastic orangey balls you used to get that were slightly smaller than size 5 and blew about in the wind but were great for doing keep-e-ups?

:hat:

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I think age has dimmed your memory banks.You know that u would befriend "JOHNNY LONELY THE ONLY KID",him with the CHOPPER and the international SUBBUTEO toys.Then u would let him join in by being a THE GOAL POST b THE GOALIE. REMEMBER NOW? ROCKET IN HIS YOUTH STILL MICK

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Did they have slightly more pronounced black lines between the fake panels and slightly bigger panels than a trophy? If so sounds a bit 'World In Motion'

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Yes don't pretend to FAKE it!

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Is this a footie thread or what?

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HANK you have RED CARDED.

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Originally posted by MICK ROCK Is this a footie thread or what?

No it's an analogy or is it an allegory?

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
Did they have slightly more pronounced black lines between the fake panels and slightly bigger panels than a trophy?If so sounds a bit 'World In Motion'

I can't remember the name of the ball. Around the late seventies and early eighties it was very popular. You couldn't walk into a park without getting one blown in your face. Yes it did have pronounced lines, that were indeed black. Good school yard fodder. Very sting worthy in winter conditions.

I'll try and remember the name of it to settle everyone's ash ... after all, this thread has developed into football mania once more.

:hat:

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Yellow card only..one more though and you are shaing a shower with HANK!

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Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
Did they have slightly more pronounced black lines between the fake panels and slightly bigger panels than a trophy?If so sounds a bit 'World In Motion'

I can't remember the name of the ball. Around the late seventies and early eighties it was very popular. You couldn't walk into a park without getting one blown in your face. Yes it did have pronounced lines, that were indeed black. Good school yard fodder. Very sting worthy in winter conditions.

I'll try and remember the name of it to settle everyone's ash ... after all, this thread has developed into football mania once more.

:hat:

Striker !!

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Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

:hat:

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Did anyone ever suffer the embarrassment of having to play with a sponge ball in the street?

One summer some dastardly neighbours got up a petition against us kids to stop playing footy in the street as the ball was damaging their cars and well pruned rosebeds.

However we out flanked them by reverting to playing with a sponge ball - however you were buggered if you ended up kicking against the wind.

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Why did you not just burn their house down like proper kids.Matches wer not dear even then MICKEY BOY

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We did scrump their apples and pears though. By jove, that taught them a lesson...

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Originally posted by Jenny Walton > Originally posted by Huntsman> > > > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©>
Did they have slightly more pronounced black lines between the fake panels and slightly bigger panels than a trophy?If so sounds a bit 'World In Motion'

I can't remember the name of the ball. Around the late seventies and early eighties it was very popular. You couldn't walk into a park without getting one blown in your face. Yes it did have pronounced lines, that were indeed black. Good school yard fodder. Very sting worthy in winter conditions.

I'll try and remember the name of it to settle everyone's ash ... after all, this thread has developed into football mania once more.

:hat:

Striker !!

Shut up Fred (there no way a girl would know that :lol: )

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:lol: :nonono:

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Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built > Originally posted by Jenny Walton> > > > Originally posted by Huntsman> > > > > > > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©> > >
:hat:

Striker !!

Shut up Fred (there no way a girl would know that :lol: )

Yes there is ! We've still got one !

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
> Originally posted by Mickey Way> The problem with the recent 'in-fighting' is the perception of unfairness and unequal treatment that current and former users feel.> > I think that until this is addressed in some way alot of people will be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.> > Nic - I'm not sure whether you saw a previous post of mine, but I did ask what your take on the whole situation was. It seems that Seb can 'getaway' with the same sort of 'abuse' that other people have been banned for.> > This really is an excellent site but the last few weeks have been somewhat uncomfortable. If it wasn't for the general humour of people like Rocket Mick and Shugsy and the return of the Huntsman the forum would be very depressing at the moment.> > I also don't buy 'this is my site, I can do what I want' way of thinking. If it wasn't for the diversity of the people who use the forum I don't think that there would be as many members. The webmasters should be rightly applauded for setting the whole thing up but its the fans from all over the world who make this site what it is.> > I can't see why both parties can't agree to apologise to each other for percieved injustices and then we can try and get back to some sort of normality - New Order Online's very own reconcilation tribunal. > ;) > > > > >

If you play football(soccer) with someone who takes his ball home when someone gives him a tough tackle, you think twat and moan and bitch about him behind his back. If however he kicks his ball on to a roof and can't manage to shin up a drainpipe to get it back, so you get up and rescue it for him, just prior to the tackle.......

Excellent point that hasn't been emphasized nearly enough.

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Originally posted by Mickey Way The problem with the recent 'in-fighting' is the perception of unfairness and unequal treatment that current and former users feel.I think that until this is addressed in some way alot of people will be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.Nic - I'm not sure whether you saw a previous post of mine, but I did ask what your take on the whole situation was. It seems that Seb can 'getaway' with the same sort of 'abuse' that other people have been banned for.This really is an excellent site but the last few weeks have been somewhat uncomfortable. If it wasn't for the general humour of people like Rocket Mick and Shugsy and the return of the Huntsman the forum would be very depressing at the moment.I also don't buy 'this is my site, I can do what I want' way of thinking. If it wasn't for the diversity of the people who use the forum I don't think that there would be as many members. The webmasters should be rightly applauded for setting the whole thing up but its the fans from all over the world who make this site what it is.I can't see why both parties can't agree to apologise to each other for percieved injustices and then we can try and get back to some sort of normality - New Order Online's very own reconcilation tribunal. ;)

Mickey, I appreciate your input, but I certainly do not share your views entirely -- in your views, from what I understand, this place should be a democracy.

It's like if you would be coming to my house each day and, after a while, you thought you could do whatever you want because you'd think my house was cool because of your presence in it.

Sorry, but that's not the way things goes. You know, there are about 4000 registered members on this website. The 6-7 users that I identified as "trouble makers" (in a way) are a drop in the ocean.

It is our right and privileges to admit who we want on this forum and on this website. It's all in the TERMS OF USE when you decided to become a registered user on this site.

The terms of use are for the USERS, not the webmasters. Of course, we want to respect our own guidelines, but for us, they are not rules, they are guidelines.

Yes, the webmasters make the rules, remember?

I understand this may be VERY frustrating and nobody can expect to be popular by making such statements, but this has ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY from Day 1. If you thought this place was managed by a democracy, it was only an illusion.

And by the way, no website can be managed by a democracy. Someone has to make decisions at the end of the day.

Besides, I agree that the users are a VERY important part in the making of this website and their contributions (I'm not even speaking of the forum here!) are very valuable. But they're not the ones who spent hours and hours BUILDING the website -- most of those loudmouths who are complaining today never lifted a finger to build the website, and wouldn't if they were asked to.

So, based on that, YES, we can do what we want with our website, and that includes banning Tim Jauncey if we don't want him aboard.

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So those posts you made about how they aren't "Avante Garde" anymore were referring to which body of work exactly?

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Two last statements:

  1. Banned users who use other users' accounts witll get these accounts to be banned as well. You cannot do undirectly what you cannot go directly.

  2. For those who think it is a catastrophe to see 6-7 or even 10 regular posters leave the site: come back to your senses. Nicolas and I have been managing BBSes and websites for almost 15 years now, and I can tell you that if these people go, they will be quickly replaced by other fans, just like that, after a certain numbero of weeks.

First of all, by fans who do not post BECAUSE OF THEM.

And second of all, by other people who visit NewOrderOnline and are not members, by people who do not know yet about NOOL, by people who do not know yet about New Order, or just by some of our 4000 registered site members.

And hell, the forum is not all -- even if they weren't to be replaced it wouldn't be the end of the world.

We have decided a long time ago that this forum should be heading in a direction and we have decided to push it again in that direction because it was hi-jacked by a certain number of people in the last months.

It's just that simple.

Seb.

P.S. The second part of this message is not intended for those who will do whatever they can to slash me off and who do not have one ounce of credibility left because of that -- it's intended for the others.

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
So those posts you made about how they aren't "Avante Garde" anymore were referring to which body of work exactly?

Avant-gardistes, I said. That would be the good french expression.

I was referring to Here To Stay and Such a Good Thing.

But just because something isn't "avant-gardiste" anymore doesn't mean it's not good.

But the band disappoints me a lot with what it chooses to play live, night after night. There could be so much done with this great back catalogue and they just don't do it. They're on automatic pilot it seems.

*SIGH*

Seb.

P.S. Let's continue this discussion on its own thread -- I think it would be an interesting one.

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I might didn't make myself clear, but the terms of use are for everyone and I will enforce them, webmaster or not, if that occurs again, anyone can sure tell me.

I can accept critics, but they have to be constructive and not "go fuck off" or anything quite like it. This is why >I< deleted some posts and will continue to do so.

This non-sense is going much too far, and I'm now sick and tired of looking like a UN Peace Keeper.

Like I said, I agree with Sébastien on the fact that this forum was not going very well, due to a large part of off-topic and private messages from the people he identified, we received some complaints and we lost many "regular" who we think went away because of this.

Now, I don't agree with the methods used, which is why every account was restored, and a severe warning was sent to all those users, which is I think it's the way to go. And I think Sébastien also agreed with this.

Trust me, I don't want anyone to quit this site and go somewhere else, I just want to see it expand and go on, I have nothing against nobody, and I don't think anyone has to say anything against me.

Now, I received several complaints in email (which I mostly didn't reply because I already did on this board) about the way Sébastien behaved, it makes me sad, but there is a reason for everything, if he acted this way, there has to be a good reason, and I totally trust him on for that. I didn't read the thread (they were deleted), and Sébastien is as much a webmaster as I am, he's doing maintenance, data entry, checking every new member, moderating this forum. People might not agree with his ways, but I believe what is seek is for the good of everyone. I never said it was the best way to do it, but is there a good way?

Would a "general chat" forum be the answer? I would like your input on that, if this is what this site need, I am willing to do it, and name someone moderator, as I don't think I will be reading most of those posts.. which is actually >the< problem, I don't read 90% of what's on this forum because it's basically off topic posts and things that I don't care about. But splitting in two forums might not be the answer, who would want to check 2 forums at once?

We will find an answer to this debate, and I sure hope everyone will contribute, because I am truly sick of trying to find ways to please everyone...

And you will have to behave for the next few days, because I am moving into my new house next sunday, and I won't have any internet connection before June 25th, and I sure don't want to see the mess that happened here the last time I lost my internet connection!

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 1:12:48 AM EDT]

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Fuckin ell - will this madness never end? Checked on this page this morning, and it looked like Nicos was prepared to let things get back to normal.....if I wasn't running late fer work, I woulda replied and maybe there woulda been light at the end of the tunnel! Fuckin hate all this stuff getting dragged up - firstly cos I miss me mates I have made from this site who have been banned - and secondly cos of all the bad vibes it has caused! Is there any way we can change the plot - and make all the gobshite that has been posted into a comedy play or film? I fer one would pay to see the day when things get back to FUCKING normal!

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SHUGZV you could play me and i with a wig could play you. :lol:

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Shugz...my wee Scottish brother...

I don't think things will ever get back to normal...

Looks like Finsbury may have been the end of it all.....

NAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH....let's go out and have some fun!!!!

sorry...see all you kids later!!!!

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Originally posted by Jonathan S. [Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 1:12:48 AM EDT]

Nothing personal, but I don't think anyone would think this discussion was going anywhere... speculations that is, we all know short bits, nobody really know for sure.

And NOBODY wants to get back into THAT debate, which is why >I< closed that thread.. and deleted it... you may call it censorship, I call it, peace keeping...

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Originally posted by ShugZV Fuckin ell - will this madness never end?Checked on this page this morning, and it looked like Nicos was prepared to let things get back to normal.....if I wasn't running late fer work, I woulda replied and maybe there woulda been light at the end of the tunnel!Fuckin hate all this stuff getting dragged up - firstly cos I miss me mates I have made from this site who have been banned - and secondly cos of all the bad vibes it has caused! Is there any way we can change the plot - and make all the gobshite that has been posted into a comedy play or film? I fer one would pay to see the day when things get back to FUCKING normal!

As far as I know, nobody has been banned but one person, and I'm sorting this out as we speak.

I feel like trying to bring a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians right now :D

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It seems as if this is quite an issue as 88 posts and rising. I feel its a bit bloody minded to be going on about these are the RULES, this is NOT A DEMOCRATIC FORUM, you will DO AS WE SAY or TA TA.

All rather sad.

:cry:

Shame for such a good site

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I'm still confused as to who 'all these people' were that Muffy, Liv, Tim, etc, scared off? :scratch:

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Originally posted by El Jarveaux I'm still confused as to who 'all these people' were that Muffy, Liv, Tim, etc, scared off? :scratch:

I don't know whose fault it was, but from a few months this forum had indeed become a complete mess. I'm here because I want to talk about New Order and related topics, but as the number of O/T threads increased and as more and more New Order related threads quickly drifted O/T to enventually become private chat rooms, I left the english forum. My major problem with the O/T and private jokes stuff, despite the good humor they may bring to the forum, is that I don't want to spend 3 hours a day going through all the threads with the hope to find (and the risk not to find) something that could be of some interest to me.

I'm not the only one in this situation: allpeople on the french forum who used to chat on the english one too ended up leaving the latter because of this problem.

Guess what? Since Seb (maybe over-)reacted to this situation, the forum is back to normal and I'm happy to be here again because the useful information is no longer flooded in irrelevant stuff. I can react to the topics that interest me in 10 minutes without having to spend hours trying to excavate them from the muddy rest.

I am NOT saying that banishing people was a good idea. Sincerely, I found the concerned people sympathetic. The problem was that, whether sympathetic or not, they tended to behave too much as if they were in a private chat room. Unfortunately, more and more people on this forum felt that they didn't have much to share with them, and left.

I sincerely hope that these people will be reintegrated, but also that everybody will from now on respect the subjects of the threads and no longer make them their own chat rooms. If every out-of-topic thread was marked as such, it would also make everybody's life on this forum much easier.

Just my opinion and that of many people from the french forum. Nothing personal against anybody here, just a general statement.

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But, and it is a big but, the person who was banned was not one of the Off-Topic posters ! They are very much still at large, still posting off-topic stuff.

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GREEN EYES...sorry i will respect this general view,curb the crap and talk the FACs.O/T will be marked and i will limit posting to allow you to get in. ROCKET REGRET MICK :)

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Well, if you look at the statistics, you'll see that Fred West aka Tim J has been reinstated.

The others (Muffy, Liv...) weren't banished, Fred was the only one.

I do not wish to comment on this subject but we have to be accurate : all their accounts are now active, even Fred's.

Now, will they still want to post here, is another matter and I can't answer for them.

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I just spoke to Tim, he hasn't been reinstated. He is the scapegoat for all this hassle it seems.

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Originally posted by Jen I just spoke to Tim, he hasn't been reinstated. He is the scapegoat for all this hassle it seems.

That's weird... If you look at the stats, his account looks activated (when a member is banned, usually, his name disappears from the statistics).

And Nic wrote, a few hours ago, that Fred's problem was on the verge of being solved.

Has Fred tried to post now ?

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Yes he has tried, but it comes up with "your posting priveledge (sic) has been removed by a moderator".

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Originally posted by Oh, I've got green eyes > Originally posted by El Jarveaux I'm still confused as to who 'all these people' were that Muffy, Liv, Tim, etc, scared off? :scratch:

Guess what? Since Seb (maybe over-)reacted to this situation, the forum is back to normal and I'm happy to be here again because the useful information is no longer flooded in irrelevant stuff. I can react to the topics that interest me in 10 minutes without having to spend hours trying to excavate them from the muddy rest.

I am NOT saying that banishing people was a good idea. Sincerely, I found the concerned people sympathetic. The problem was that, whether sympathetic or not, they tended to behave too much as if they were in a private chat room. Unfortunately, more and more people on this forum felt that they didn't have much to share with them, and left.

I sincerely hope that these people will be reintegrated, but also that everybody will from now on respect the subjects of the threads and no longer make them their own chat rooms. If every out-of-topic thread was marked as such, it would also make everybody's life on this forum much easier.

Just my opinion and that of many people from the french forum. Nothing personal against anybody here, just a general statement.

They weren't banned for posting off-topic posts. They were banned for objecting to unwarranted personal attacks on people who had done nothing to deserve it.

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Originally posted by Jen Yes he has tried, but it comes up with "your posting priveledge (sic) has been removed by a moderator".

Well, sorry then, I really thought that part of the problem was arranged.

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Originally posted by Oh, I've got green eyes > Originally posted by El Jarveaux I'm still confused as to who 'all these people' were that Muffy, Liv, Tim, etc, scared off?

I'm not the only one in this situation: allpeople on the french forum who used to chat on the english one too ended up leaving the latter because of this problem.

Guess what? Since Seb (maybe over-)reacted to this situation, the forum is back to normal and I'm happy to be here again because the useful information is no longer flooded in irrelevant stuff.

Just my opinion and that of many people from the french forum. Nothing personal against anybody here, just a general statement.

Oh well, if it keeps the French at bay in can only be seen as a good thing. ;)

In fairness, the people who've disappeared DID, as far as I was aware, post ON-topic, in the main. So, Ben, it's disappointing to hear someone who's amassed nigh on 400 post saying that he's happy to be back now that certain people have gone. So, I'm obviously now wondering what insights you can bring to NewOrderOnline that can amply replace the thoughts of Sloppy, Grahame, Liv and the Muffster.. .?

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Agreed Jarvo.

This off topic stuff is a complete red herring.

The reason everything has gone 'Pete Tong' is because of that old favourite - a clash of personalities between some forum members.

I would also like to say that surely it is up to the moderators 'to moderate' the off topic postings. If the moderators / other users feel that certain individuals are posting too many OT threads then I'm sure a gentle and adult reminder to that individual will sort out any misunderstandings. After all, is that not the role of a moderator?

If people, after being reminded in a nice way, don't take the hint, then fair enough ban their asses.

I can't help thinking a lot of this stuff should of been nipped in the bud earlier if people really felt that strongly about OT postings.

It's not rocket science - a bit of common sense is required.

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Just a quick note : although it's written "Moderator" under my name, I only moderate the French forum and, as such, I don't have any "power" in here...

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Just a quick note : although it's written "Moderator" under my name, I only moderate the French forum and, as such, I don't have any "power" in here...

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Isn't it more a case of a clash of personalities between one of the webmasters and several of the forum members ?

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Originally posted by Mickey Way Agreed Jarvo.This off topic stuff is a complete red herring.The reason everything has gone 'Pete Tong' is because of that old favourite - a clash of personalities between some forum members.I would also like to say that surely it is up to the moderators 'to moderate' the off topic postings. If the moderators / other users feel that certain individuals are posting too many OT threads then I'm sure a gentle and adult reminder to that individual will sort out any misunderstandings. After all, is that not the role of a moderator?If people, after being reminded in a nice way, don't take the hint, then fair enough ban their asses.I can't help thinking a lot of this stuff should of been nipped in the bud earlier if people really felt that strongly about OT postings.It's not rocket science - a bit of common sense is required.

It's definitely bollocks surely Shug is the biggest offender and Scottish:skeptic:, yet he hasn't been singled out despite holding his hand up and admitting it, he remains one of the most popular posters. Obviously I wouldn't have singled him out if I didn't agree with his popularity, not sure about the Scottishness though.

Maybe a general chat forum is a good idea but I think some of the cross fertilisation that occurs is a good thing and that was one of the reasons that splitting the forum led to slightly ostracising the non-English speakers.

Who is so precious anyway that they are arsed if a topic swerves off the rails?

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Exactement! (forgive my spelling)

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Originally posted by El Jarveaux In fairness, the people who've disappeared DID, as far as I was aware, post ON-topic, in the main. So, Ben, it's disappointing to hear someone who's amassed nigh on 400 post saying that he's happy to be back now that certain people have gone.

I'm not saying that I'm happy to be back now that they are gone (look closer to my message, and you will see that it says that I'd like to see everybody back). But: I'm happy that the forum has come back to a more balanced state, which allows me to come back. Now, to be fair, I must add that I don't think that this balanced state is due to the departure of a few people, but rather to the shock it has created: everybody seems to behave more reasonably now (maybe are they afraid of being banished as weel?).

So, I'm obviously now wondering what insights you can bring to NewOrderOnline that can amply replace the thoughts of Sloppy, Grahame, Liv and the Muffster.. .?

Nothing allows me to think that my presence is more valuable than theirs of than anybody's, at least when they don't spoil the forum with O/T and private stuff.

Again, I want to make my thoughts clear: I am not accusing Liv, Muffy et al. of being responsible of the drifting of the forum (sorry if I gave this impression). As I stated in my first message, I don't know the name of the people who were doing the mess in the forum. I am just observing that their banishment has brought balance to the Force, hu, to the forum, I mean. It's a classroom effect: the punishment of one pupil (even the wrong one) affects all the others.

I don't know if the banished people you mentioned diserved it: i had already left this forum when it happened. I don't even want to know it. I hope they'll be back soon, and I hope that everybody (i.e. not only them) will behave better in the future. I think it's quite reasonable a wish.

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Originally posted by Mickey Way Exactement! (forgive my spelling)

Your spelling is alright! Hope to see you on the french forum ;)

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Without wishing to sound like Billy Graham, a church isn't the building, it's the people within the building.....

I have to say the whole thing's a rather boring distraction to what was, I thought, quite an interesting proposition.

I've read the T's & C's and attempt to adhere to the requests and requirements of the 'people of power'.

Perhaps there are actually two issues requiring resolution - that of the debate to date (and any future as it appears that resolution is perhaps some way off) and that of the nature of public access forums.

If one invites the public in, the public by default have influence over the site.

If the banned (or not banned, or whatever their status is) people want to come back, but can't, I guess their solution is to sort something else out, as has been initiated.

If they are allowed back, I guess the question they should be asking themselves is do they want to come back.

If the people running this site have clear intentions in terms of promotion of growth of the site and a vision for development, perhaps it would be worth the (non-confidential) aspects of their plan to be made open to the public for inspection and then those who feel like hanging around can do so. Should the circumstances be such that there's a groundswell of public opinion against said plans, then I guess it's time to ship out.

Life's too short, really.....

I'd love to add to the Howard Jones deviation, but face it folks, it's just not netiquette, eh?!

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 6:17:34 PM EDT]

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
> Originally posted by Mickey Way> Agreed Jarvo.> > This off topic stuff is a complete red herring.> > I would also like to say that surely it is up to the moderators 'to moderate' the off topic postings. If the moderators / other users feel that certain individuals are posting too many OT threads then I'm sure a gentle and adult reminder to that individual will sort out any misunderstandings. After all, is that not the role of a moderator?> > If people, after being reminded in a nice way, don't take the hint, then fair enough ban their asses.> I can't help thinking a lot of this stuff should of been nipped in the bud earlier if people really felt that strongly about OT postings.> It's not rocket science - a bit of common sense is required.

It's definitely bollocks surely Shug is the biggest offender and Scottish:skeptic:, yet he hasn't been singled out despite holding his hand up and admitting it, he remains one of the most popular posters. Obviously I wouldn't have singled him out if I didn't agree with his popularity, not sure about the Scottishness though.

Please don't mind me, but I just wanted to put my point of view across and draw attention to the fact that - with regard to the issue of needless off-topic postings - we have had here on this forum, a recent addition to the ranks (Mick :hi: ) who has managed to clock up several hundred posts in his relatively brief time here (less than a month from my calculation)....this wouldn't be such a staggering achievement when you consider how - no matter how knowledgable, and entertaining, he seems (and he does genuinely know a lot about all things related to New Order) - of most of these 900-odd posts, about 20 percent of them made sense and the other 80 percent would have actually struggled to comprise one paragraph in itself!! In many cases, several successive posts were made inside of a few minutes, some repeated, some not, but always comprised of just one or two words......are you telling me that this sort of thing should be encouraged?

Without meaning to blatantly point the finger (and I certainly don't - just merely explaining the way I see it) is this not the work of someone who thrives on simply posting as much pointless inanities as possible in an attempt to clock up the most posts in the shortest time, thereby in effect abusing his posting privileges? Cos that's the way I see it. And yet he doesn't appear to have been taken to task for this.....whilst other casual off-topic posters may have been..... I'm frankly confused.....

Off-topic rambling is fine in context of course - no-one ever said it was illegal did they? - but this is something else entirely - you just don't spam the board (or interrupt the flow of a thread) repeatedly with multiple postings which just read like so much (drunken) gibberish.... It quickly gets incredibly tiresome and tedious to have to wade through all the shite just to get to something more interesting and thought-provoking. I hope I haven't trodden on any toes by saying this...but I felt I had to say something likewise.

:cool2: :cool2:

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 6:17:02 PM EDT]

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Originally posted by Jonathan S. From you I expect little but how about you explain your allegations against me about the sites mp3 files and my supposed involvement with the bands management and record company in relation to their removal?That would be a start.

Someone who has been the object of such abuse surely is entitled to ask for an explanation of the charges that have been made against him.

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HUBERT i know i have been OTT BUT i do not intend to upset YOU or anyone else...my toes are sore enough.You are correct in some assumptions but not in others.Anyhow i WILL behave or leave.I think i just got a bit upset with all the trouble and tried to lighten the tone.Sorry i caused offence and will make amends by telling you some VALID and great tales(i hope) of collecting,the ORDER and spinoffs and contribute more to the relevant points.IT IS ALL MY FAULT. RM

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 6:20:09 PM EDT]

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Originally posted by Hubert Mickle

Just so that you know, we already gave a warning and we're joggling with the idea of pulling the trigger...

;)

S.

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 6:21:03 PM EDT]

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[Content deleted by Spotnick on 6/20/2002 6:21:25 PM EDT]

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What a fucking mess. Can't we just let JS - for whom I, and assume the majority of this board, have huge respect - just let the guy have his say????????? The chap has done more than enough in the Order stakes (US '89, for example) to have earned his stars.........can't we let this egocentric bullshit go?????? Pur-leasesesssssssssssssseeeee??????????????

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Originally posted by Jonathan S. Nic,Seeing that you are quite obviously embarrassed by your partners comments - so much so that you choose to delete any reference that I (or indeed anyone else) make(s) about them - could YOU please explain what it is that you think you know about these allegations and my supposed actions?

Why bringing back that old plague?

Leave the hatched burried, it's just fine the way it is.

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Originally posted by Buster Klumpy > Originally posted by Jen> Yes he has tried, but it comes up with "your posting priveledge (sic) has been removed by a moderator".

Well, sorry then, I really thought that part of the problem was arranged.

It is now. As I said, there is always way to negociate peace, I think I've done the right thing.

Now if people can keep on the subject and we can quit talking about it, and keep ON-TOPIC, it will be a good start!

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Sorry for all the deleted posts here, but gosh, as I said, I will delete ANYTHING that has a little chance to restarting this mess.

Signed.. The Janitor.

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Nic, is there anyway JS & SB could go into a message 'forum' ring and go toe to toe till the last man is standing ?????

We could put it on live as a NOOL pay-per-view and make a shedload of cash :D

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