Are New Order still relevant?

They kind of admitted this in a tongue in cheek way before they kicked off with Crystal at FinsbreeFrenzie...

I've all but given up hope of hearing anything live from LowLife or Technique anymore... sad but true

But the MORE GOOD back catalogue you have THE harder it is to suit your audience OLD and NEW.....Bowie would have to play for 72 hours and that would be so i could get out of the bar...HIC

thats true..

isnt about time they played a "secret" gig for the fans where they can let loose with obscure album tracks all night for us diehards!! ((no playing of singles allowed!) :D

DON where could they play to fit us all in ? Johnny Giles bathroom!

Originally posted by ShugZV > Originally posted by .DON.> thats true..> > isnt about time they played a "secret" gig for the fans where they can let loose with obscure album tracks all night for us diehards!! ((no playing of singles allowed!) :D

Nice idea mate But how would they be able to class who's a "diehard fan" and who isnae? sorry to be anal

back to the original post

NEWORDER are and always will be relevant (to moi anyways!!) Ya just put on the flyer, "Blue Monday will not be played" and bobs ya uncle! only diehard fans in attendance

Originally posted by .DON. I've all but given up hope of hearing anything live from LowLife or Technique anymore... sad but true

Too true.....too true..... more's the pity

And in answer to the original question at the head of this thread...NO.... New Order sadly aren't as relevant today as they were, say, 10 years ago...... only because it's strictly the continued faith of the die-hard fans who are helping to keep their profile up on the "scene" as it were..... I mean who else really gives a fuck about them anymore? Certainly not their record company, or the radio stations, or even, come to that, much of the conservatively mainstream music press......

New Order are indeed crusing on "autopilot" now more than anything.... they're riding an inexplicable but strangely comfortable middle-of-the-road kind of existence nowadays, refusing to come up with anything truly audacious or challenging lest it send them too far off left of centre.... they've lost their hunger for experimentation, preferring to devote their energies to simply "getting down to playing again like a proficiently worthy (but dull) rock band" - just check the titles of their latest releases if you want some indication of just how "comfortable" with their lot they are now: "Here To Stay", "Such A Good Thing", "Slow Jam", "Someone Like You", "Player In The League".....etc etc.... All the enigma has completely vanished - leaving just a hollow stadium-like sterility to their functionalism....

Playing "Low Life" again makes me wonder how much a band can go from being such an awesome creative force to such an uninspired one .... some bands actually get better with age .....(Flaming Lips, Fugazi, to name but two) but I'm only sad to see New Order becoming more boring and lazy. That is the reason why I'm not arsed going to see them playing live again - besides, there's much more exciting music out there to live and die for. My love for New Order always came from them having bequeathed us some of the most beautifully moving and stately music I've heard anywhere - but that sadly stopped after 1990 - with perhaps three or four exceptions... I'm sure I'm not alone here in saying that......

Respect all your comments HUBERT but relevant or not ,as with the STONES die-hard fans like myself will always support them.I am sure you serious people will enjoy younger and newer bands.It is just a pity that you like to slag everbody for anything...only joking.:) I have supported a lot of great bands in my time but they either DIE or breakup.It is good that they still GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS.But wot the fuck do i know. Wish i could be more detailed and articulate but i am as lazy as NEW ORDER.

I was very happy with their last 3 concerts. They played 3 new songs, and WIM if you count that. If you havn't noticed they play the same set, for each leg of thier tour, but once that leg is over they do change it a little, sure it's only a couple songs, but they do.

I'm very happy with the joy divsion songs they have been playing. Digital was a great suprise that nobody guessed. I've been waiting years to year Barney sing them.

Yes I think they should play at least a song from each of their CD's so the less hardcore fans could here them, and maybe go out and buy them.

My Friend loves the Stones and he told me at their last concert, they only played 2 songs from their newest Cd and the rest of the songs were from their CD's that are 15 years old. They did not even touch their cd's from the last 10 years. So it seen the fans only want to hear their clasics, well I think it's the same for New Order, they think their fans only want to hear their clasics, which they might be right, besides us, there are a bunch of fans who only know "True Faith, BLT, Regret & Blue Monday." I made a best of Cd for a guy at work and left out Blue Monday, and he got mad at me. That is the last song I want to hear, but others can't live without it. So they do need to plays these songs over and over again, to make most people happy. Remember we here at this form are about 100 people, we do not make the whole concert, so I do think they are pleasing most of the people. So by playing only a couple new songs each leg of the tour, they are pleasing everybody. Us and them.

Also by playing the same gig over and over they tend to stop bootlegging. I even seen it here, people are only asking for the 3 new songs they played, not the rest of the concert. I still want the whole concert, so if you have it email to me!!! (y2j@cadvision.com).

Am I happy with New Order? (Hell Yea) I'm having the time of my life!!! Get Ready ruled and we got 2 new songs since then, even a bbc session! This last year has been a dream come true, I even got to see them live for the first time! Sure some of their stuff isn't as good as the old, but it's still good and I'm enjoing it.

So overall I'm happy were even getting something!!!

I think that we might be asking a little to much of New Order to still be the 'groundbreaking' ever changing force that they were in the 80's. They've done so much for music whethers it been with Joy Division or New Order. They've got a gigantic and amazing back catalogue of original, beautiful music. Now they're into their 40's, having been writing music for 20 + years, haven't they done enough for the music world and their fans ? Whether they're relevant in todays world isn't an issue with me because they have got nothing to prove. Can't we just sit back, relax and let the band carry on without placing these major expectations on them ? They've paid their dues.

New Order will always be relevant to me because they have the amazing records which have and will stand the test of time to prove it.

And, Love Vigilantes is off Low Life which they played in Sydney ....

Yes they are, I think. But will they be in 10 years time? No, as relevant as Gerry and the Pacemakers are now.

But re releasing Peel Sessions is a telling sign....

Agree with Jarvo - what exactly is relevant - certainly something completely different to groundbreaking. Who would we call 'relevant' at the moment? Travis, Dido, Oasis? And who is making 'groundbreaking' music at the moment?

They're still making decent music, if maybe not as jaw-dropping as some of their earlier releases.

Originally posted by Spotnick Well, there is still a spark, I'm quite sure, but it will not happen IMHO unless they produce a new album themselves, New Order were at their best on an independent label, doing what they want, the way they want. I have nothing against republic or get ready, but we all know that New Order's music isn't perfect (see them live!), so maybe too-perfect albums are not "New Order"...

Nic, I think you express here something that sounds like my opinion... :D

Yes, in some ways, "Get Ready" is too perfect, too well-rounded, too polished.

That might be why some of its songs sometimes sound "difficult" live (as "Close Range", when I saw them last year).

The reason why I've loved NO so much over the years is because they seemed not to know how to make "proper" or "regular" music and songs.

It was always something quite hazardous. Something of a miracle.

When they were all together, the 4 of them, something strange and beautiful was happening and even them couldn't say what it was.

Now I still love them but, in the studio, they've become a bit too professional to me. There's no real place for accidents anymore.

And as Nicolas said, maybe a solution would be that they produce their albums themselves, as in the good old days.

It is only in recent times, just after the release of The Republican, that New Order have been hailed 'ground breaking' and this mainly by Radio 1 DJs as I seem to remember - hardly a barometer for intelligence.

During their 'heyday' 83-87 they were, more often than not, slagged off by the music press such as the NME and Melody Maker. Bad reviews of their gigs and albums were just as common as good ones. I can't remember a good review of Brotherhood for example.

Bands like the Smiths, The Cure and god forbid the Mission and Sisters of Mercy got more gushing column inches.

BLT didn't even chart in the UK Top 40 and is now hailed in some quarters as an 'electro classic'.

What is ironic is that the same publications who were always 'luke warm' to the Order now see them as one of the best bands the UK has ever produced.

Of course, we already know that they are easily THE best band so I take all these reviews with a pinch of salt.

As I've said before I thought GRrrr was an average album with some standout tracks and is too rock orientated for my tastes. I was listening to Confusion Instrumental last night and wouldn't it be great if they got back to their electronic and experimental roots but I don't think it'll happen.

You don't usually get many ground breaking mid-40 year olds.

The gigs of course don't have the edge they used to have but we all getting a bit older these days. They are still a great laugh, and as with all gigs, the best bit is the travelling and expectation beforehand. Even though they've been doing the same set more or less we are all still secretly hoping they might pull Age of Consent out the bag.

You can't beat abit of Temptation and Ceremony live and I've now even come to appreciate Blue Monday as a live track.

Roll on Manchestahhh!

I think there are too many threads mixed together here. Are the Order relevant, no, not anymore but relevancy (does that word exists? well, you know what I mean anyway)does not depend on the quality of the music. Is Moby relevant? Absolutely. Where will his music be in ten years time? I´ll tell you something, there won´t be a Mobyonline in the year 2012. Certainly not with fans posting everyday.

Let´s not forget that the music industry is first and foremost... well, an industry and it follows normal business practices. New Order accepted this when they signed with London Records and I do not see them complaining. In this sense New Order have become a "cash cow" which is businesspeak for a product to be milked dry while trimming costs to the bone and more (Exhibit 1: Neworder.web). In this sense they are not commercially relevant, either and no matter how good their music, they will never be again. They could bloody well write the electronic equivalent of Handel´s Messiah and that would not raise their profile one iota (Exhibit number two: I do believe that Crystal was objectively 2001´s best song. I do believe even more that have Crystal been done by let´s say "The Killers" with a Strokes-like front man it would have been number one "from Tombuctu to alt Berlin".)

So they are not commercially relevant anymore, and I´ll be buggered if that worries me at all. The point here is whether their music is good or not and I think that this point has already being made for me countless times. Get Ready is every bit as good as anything they´ve done before. It shows a band still moving and willing to take risks. I have no doubt that Barney would have been perfectly capable of rehashing Republic and issuing a New-order-by-numbers-here-we-go-again kind of CD and their record company would have been a lot happier with the sales. Let´s thank the gods for Get Ready and count our blessings (we could have been born Depeche Mode fans or even worse, Cure fans!).

The only disappointment so far are the concerts and there I thing that you are completely (but very properly) Pete Tong. Some of you are expressing the views of the jaded palates that can see every Order concert or go to Brixton Academy three nights in succession (of course this does not apply to Canadians or Australians). With luck, I shall be seeing NO only once this year and I am perfectly happy with them playing Blue Monday. Would I like them to play Age Of Consent or Perfect Kiss? You bet. Am I perfectly satisfied with the inclusion of Digital and She´s lost control? Indeed. Do I mind Barney whooping and whistling through LWTUA. Well, I actually do, one must draw the line somewhere.

To sum it up with a dispassionate, non partisan, purely objective point of view: NEW ORDER/JOY DIVISION ARE THE BEST ROCK GROUP EVER. NONE COMES CLOSE.

I'm a diehard Neworder fan and Get Ready hasn't been off my car stereo since it was released. This is a quality band...always were and always will be....nuff said. Still, I'd love to hear Love Vigilantes, Age of Consent, Disorder or Run at a gig in the future.

I think assessing New Order's relevance in 2002 is a mammoth task just assessing the relevance of anything in today’s society is. Walking round London whilst there for the ‘Finsbury Park’ show, got me thinking about art and how it affects people's lives seeing the adverts for the Matisse/Picasso show on the underground and thinking there's an establishment telling us these are great works and then seeing who turns up at that show mainly parties of school children, didn't Picasso say he spent his adult life trying to learn to paint like a child? What’s considered cutting edge today? ‘Flashing lights’ and ‘unmade beds’.

There's what 12 million or so people milling around London each day and of them 25 000 or so turned up at Finsbury from all corners of the planet. Who are these people and do they have any great insight into what is a worthy event to experience? I'd say yes and no, some stand at the back sober and others live the event and buzz of the atmosphere. (I was almost enjoying 60mph until Jarvo tapped me on the shoulder and reminded me how crap it was.) I'm reminded of a quote "keep an open mind but so open as to let anything in" and perhaps we are guilty of indulging in nostalgia trips but I don't think without justification I personally hate the production on Get Ready and only really like Crystal, Close Range(though not live) and Primitive Notion, 2 or 3 others I quite like but that's still enough to fan my interest and then we get 'Here To Stay' the points been made that it may not have a great shelf life(could be a Chemical's thing) but "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long" and for me anyway it shone very brightly "like a bright light on a......."

Who tells us what is relevant in music? ‘the media’? almost to a man clueless whores. ‘The media’ doesn't really reflect anything other than the mainstream unless you watch television at 1:00 in the morning and magazines like the music industry have that feel that the new bands are the one's to push. This point came up during a debate here regarding the contrasting marketing strategies between New Order and The Doves. This leaves New Order as peripheral figures name-checked and revered, the parallels with Kraftwerk continue. Whilst the media whores are off on a junket to Ibiza for the summer attempting to recreate 1988 and rock hasn't IMO thrown up a relevant act since 1990 is there an alternative? You'd have make your minds up and you could do worse than check ‘Alt.music.new-order’ for tips on what is cutting edge today but I tried and still haven't found anything I prefer to New Order. It’s a bit like art in that sense everything is post ‘post modern’ and seems to have ended up, up it’s own arse and in 50-100 years who will school children be learning about ‘The Notwist’ and ‘Lali Puna’ or ‘New Order’ even the 2001 version manged a no.1 stateside dance mix.

Live shows have by all accounts have always been hit and miss affairs and the trend continues but even at the bad shows they play Temptation and if that isn't worth £30.00 what is?

Everyone has there own opinions, likings and dislikings and how do you tell if a band is 'relevant' or groundbreaking ... Some say that The Doves, The Hives and The Strokes are groundbreaking and keeping music alive but these bands mean nothing to me ... Just like these stupid top 100 bands/songs of all time lists .... Who the hell has the right to say that a band such as the Beatles are the best band of all time ... How do you measure that ? By record sales ? Does that mean Britney and co will be among the best of all time ? Its not like a 100m sprint where the first person to cross the line can be declared a winner ...

Its all about your own opinion ...

I think that the new, lazy, cash-cow (like that, Huber :)) New Order is just one that now has to toe the party line insofar as record company expectations. I read that interview with Hooky where he came up with a crap justification for playing the same set every night. The plain facts of the matter are though that they are now middle-aged former rebels who now turn out to pick up a few quid while playing a safe set to the already-converted and die-hards. I don't believe that they will ever change the set around again, will ever rehearse older songs besides one or two JD ones once in a blue moon. They can't be arsed to go the extra mile for their fans any more, that's what it boils down to. What a waste of a glorious back catalogue.

On the other hand I think after years of wasting money making opportunities, and ploughing their own money back into projects such as the Hac, I don't begrudge them making a deserved easy buck one little bit.

And lets face it, they're not trying to deceive anyone into what they are going to play, everyone knows the set isn't going to change too much.

Originally posted by Spotnick To actually be "Ground Breaking", you have to influence other artists... that is my way of seeing it. Is there artists today that are influencing new artists? Joy Division was ground breaking, is New Order really ground breaking? I've not seen much people saying they were influenced by New Order, they all say Joy Division.. maybe it's the same band, but.. why?!

I think that the reason why is that none wants to be indebted to their contemporaries. Joy Division is no more so most groups won´t have a problem adopting them as forefathers, New Order on the other hand are very much here with a quite unique style, you cannot be influenced by the Order you can only steal from them.

Put it this way.......when you suddenly start seeing a new band comprised of three fat flabby English guys with terrible sense of dress and rhythm, plus one slimmer one - you can then finally say that New Order have been influential....!!!....!!! :D :D