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Suggested by other threads on Depeche Mode and Cure being "inspired" by NO songs, which other groups do you remember that have felt themselves compelled to pay homage to the best band ever.
Now, I think this has not been mentioned before:
Alan Parsons Project!!!!! yep, they made a song called "You don´t believe!" in which they use the same structure invented by NO for Blue Monday.
erm... Electronic, Monaco, Revenge and The Other Two......bleedin' chancers the lot of 'em!!
Mid-eighties Wire doffed their cap in New Order's direction on more than one occasion. "Ahead" sounds very much like "Temptation".
Oh my god! Don't get me started! Anyone knows a small outfit called Pet Shop Boys? Or those fellas The Cure (try listening to "Inbetween days" without thinking "wait... this reminds me of something?"), or Paris Angels, or a thousand acts who are too lazy to actually program those dreadfull sequencers themselves (hang on a sec... NO do actually employ a programmer guy on Get ready. Wrong joke, maybe...)?
Speaking of the PSB's - does anyone recollect the artwork for the re-mix mini-album release 'Disco Rat'? - I picked this item up some years ago thinking it was 'Bizarre Love Cheese Triangles' and was highly shocked when a smudgey Chris Luna Mission pic. was blended into the background. Never such a blatant cover artwork copy scandal has ever been attempted since.
I'm not sure which NO song 'Go West and Consume Beverages' is based on though.
Also, 'Song Deux' by 'Blurred Vision' has a drum sound very reminiscent of 'The Perfect Pit Pony' and 'The Kisses of the Death Machinery'. So very similar, so very disappointing.
That's as maybe but worse,Def Leppard's video for 'Pour Some Sugar On me' is the most blatant rip-off of the 'Touched by the Hand of God' video.
Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
That's as maybe but worse,Def Leppard's video for 'Pour Some Sugar On me' is the most blatant rip-off of the 'Touched by the Hand of God' video.
I haven't seen that Wank, is Def Leonard the band where the drummer uses only 1 utensil to strike the skins? - he lost that member driving a banger up the road in the eighties you know.
The Touched song was penned for a film wasn't it starring that lass from the Kids from Fate ... have you seen it? - apparently it's shite (the film, not the tv show Fate).
The new Sheryl Crow single sounds like Temptation in the last two verses, where she sings something with "turn around" in it on a similar way as Barney's "up down turn around etc.".
Originally posted by Oh, I've got green eyes The new Sheryl Crow single sounds like Temptation in the last two verses, where she sings something with "turn around" in it on a similar way as Barney's "up down turn around etc.".
BTW, this must be purely coincidental. I can't imagine the Crow bird listening to New Order.
Originally posted by Oh, I've got green eyes > Originally posted by Oh, I've got green eyes> The new Sheryl Crow single sounds like Temptation in the last two verses, where she sings something with "turn around" in it on a similar way as Barney's "up down turn around etc.".
BTW, this must be purely coincidental. I can't imagine the Crow bird listening to New Order.
That is hard to imagine, isn't it?
Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©
That's as maybe but worse,Def Leppard's video for 'Pour Some Sugar On me' is the most blatant rip-off of the 'Touched by the Hand of God' video.
I haven't seen that Wank, is Def Leonard the band where the drummer uses only 1 utensil to strike the skins? - he lost that member driving a banger up the road in the eighties you know.
The Touched song was penned for a film wasn't it starring that lass from the Kids from Fate ... have you seen it? - apparently it's shite (the film, not the tv show Fate).
The most I've see of the film in question is the stills on album sleeve or maybe I have seen it and I just forgot 'cos it's shite, not sure now that I think about it. did you know Dominique Davalos was Ed the Duck? Either that or he was in 'Howard the Duck'
I did know the Duff Leopold drummer was harmless or he would have been if he had one arm less.
Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA Oh my god! Don't get me started! Anyone knows a small outfit called Pet Shop Boys?
What songs are you referring to?
I don't remember anyone mentionning before that the PSB had ripped New Order off.
And BTW, for those who live in Canada, there's a new publicity on TV for the Boomerang VodkIce and the soundtrack to it has lots of similarities with Blue Monday (but also with every average synth-based songs from that period of the 80s).
So, I presume nobody here remembers The Wake then - a Factory band for most of their existence too ..? That first album of theirs "Harmony" was the most blatant New Order rip-off you could ever hear. And what's more - they had a female keyboardist.... and a drummer named Steve..... plus, Bobby Gillespie used to play bass for them - so the Primal Scream connection started here in fact! 
theres a lightnening seeds song that rips a new order riff off... i cant think of the name... i,m gonna have to get back on this one
Talking about Lightning Seeds, has someone ever noticed how part of the verses to "Sugar Coated Iceberg" are a "Get The Message" rip off ?
"The Wake" made the faux pas of supporting New Order at the Barrowlands one night and the sight of the copyists appearing minutes before the copied was quite ridiculous to say the very least.
Originally posted by HOOKYS FLARES theres a lightnening seeds song that rips a new order riff off... i cant think of the name... i,m gonna have to get back on this one
You must be referring to Pure, which sounded NewOrderish. God knows if they really ripped off, and if they did, what song did they rip off!
Originally posted by Grand Master B > Originally posted by HOOKYS FLARES> theres a lightnening seeds song that rips a new order riff off... i cant think of the name... i,m gonna have to get back on this one
You must be referring to Pure, which sounded NewOrderish. God knows if they really ripped off, and if they did, what song did they rip off!
When I first heard "Pure" I thought that it was New Order with a different singer and I said to myself "Oh no they killed Barney! You bastards!, then I realised it was a different bassisst as well and breathed.
'Pure' is most definitely the most blatant rip-off of a New Order riff there has ever been ... ever ...
Play 'Love Vigilantes' and then 'Pure' and you'll soon notice the disgraceful take on Peter Hook's outstanding bass performance. Shameful.
Also, the dreadful 'Kon-Kan' seemed quite happy to utilise several keyboard melodies on their peculiar 80's song from BL&Tomato. And the song was half-new, half cover of 'Rose Garden' ... what were they on? ... digestives?
Originally posted by Grand Master B > Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA> Oh my god! Don't get me started! Anyone knows a small outfit called Pet Shop Boys?
What songs are you referring to?
I don't remember anyone mentionning before that the PSB had ripped New Order off.
I'm not reffering to any specific song. It's more the songwriting and the production work. Listen to the B-side of their first single and you'll get my point (I'm sorry but as I'm no fan of them I don't feel no obligation to remember the songs' names!). You might also remember that Neil Tennant once said that when he heard BLue Monday for the first he wanted to cry because NO had just released the exact kind of music he was looking for...before he had a chance do it himself!
Originally posted by Hubert Mickle So, I presume nobody here remembers The Wake then - a Factory band for most of their existence too ..? That first album of theirs "Harmony" was the most blatant New Order rip-off you could ever hear. And what's more - they had a female keyboardist.... and a drummer named Steve..... plus, Bobby Gillespie used to play bass for them - so the Primal Scream connection started here in fact!
Yes I remember The Wake! NO wannabees or not, still love them! "Talk about the past" is an ageless tune!
Originally posted by Huntsman 'Pure' is most definitely the most blatant rip-off of a New Order riff there has ever been ... ever ...Play 'Love Vigilantes' and then 'Pure' and you'll soon notice the disgraceful take on Peter Hook's outstanding bass performance. Shameful.
Can't say I've ever picked up on that...but I'm prepared to give it a try later. Until then I'm still The Queen Of Sheba.
Clive, you should do the decent thing and change your nickname to "The Queen of Sheba", shouldn´t you?
Originally posted by Old Blue > Originally posted by Huntsman> 'Pure' is most definitely the most blatant rip-off of a New Order riff there has ever been ... ever ...> > Play 'Love Vigilantes' and then 'Pure' and you'll soon notice the disgraceful take on Peter Hook's outstanding bass performance. Shameful.> > >
Can't say I've ever picked up on that...but I'm prepared to give it a try later. Until then I'm still The Queen Of Sheba.
You must do what you feel is right, of course.
Originally posted by FourFortyFive "The Wake" made the faux pas of supporting New Order at the Barrowlands one night and the sight of the copyists appearing minutes before the copied was quite ridiculous to say the very least.
That'll be because The Wake ARE actually Glaswegians then....!! ;)
Originally posted by Huntsman 'Pure' is most definitely the most blatant rip-off of a New Order riff there has ever been ... ever ...Play 'Love Vigilantes' and then 'Pure' and you'll soon notice the disgraceful take on Peter Hook's outstanding bass performance. Shameful.Also, the dreadful 'Kon-Kan' seemed quite happy to utilise several keyboard melodies on their peculiar 80's song from BL&Tomato. And the song was half-new, half cover of 'Rose Garden' ... what were they on? ... digestives?
thats it pure.......i knew it was there somewhere , thanks for that... it was starting to give me headache
And isn't there also an eerie similarity to songs by New Order and John Denver?
I swear, they sound just alike!!!!!
okay, I'll go grab another beer!
Many have ripped off NO, but can you name the two songs they ripped off from The Cure (hint: 1's on "low life" & 1's on "technique). They ripped off "A Forest & "Just Like Heaven".... But then again, NO & Cure have a good reputation of ripping each other off (it shows the love and respect).
Originally posted by Old Blue > Originally posted by Huntsman> 'Pure' is most definitely the most blatant rip-off of a New Order riff there has ever been ... ever ...> > Play 'Love Vigilantes' and then 'Pure' and you'll soon notice the disgraceful take on Peter Hook's outstanding bass performance. Shameful.> > >
Can't say I've ever picked up on that...but I'm prepared to give it a try later. Until then I'm still The Queen Of Sheba.
No, really, Clive - Broudie swipes LV's key riff SOOOOOOO blatantly its amazing they didn't sue. Homage or rip-ff: now that's a question for all you postmodernists out there....
Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA It's "Sunrise" and "All the way", we all now that!
Actually, if you dig a little further, you'll see that "A Forest" was ripped off EVEN MORE BLATANTLY on that very same album! The track right before "Sunrise" in fact - "This Time Of Night"! What's more....the chords are IDENTICAL!!!
TWO "Forest" rip-offs on one album.....Smithy must've really pissed the boys off - but then he got his own back again a couple of months later with "InBetween Days"!! 
To those who likes minimalistic sounds: "Everybody had their green" by Two Divided by Zero. From Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
re: The Cure rip off
they started it.......they stole Gillians make up
And I agree with Huntsy and Marty F with Love Vigilanties
In an interview on Swedish TV (I think) Barney and Hooky both mentioned this - I think they said it was alright in context, but they didn't like the idea of plaguerism.
As fer Broudie - I'd say he was paying homage to a great song;)
Continuing on this rip-off on LV by Ian Broudie, anyone noticed this new artist from the US, PETE YORN, a self-confessed JD/New Order fan, ripped those similar LV bass riffs for one of his songs on his debut album, 'Music For Morning After'.....( cant remember which one, cant be arsed to walk to my CD shelf to pick out the song....)
Try checking that said album....there are many songs there I felt a typical NewOrder would enjoy....
Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA > Originally posted by Grand Master B> > > > Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA> > Oh my god! Don't get me started! Anyone knows a small outfit called Pet Shop Boys?>
What songs are you referring to?
I don't remember anyone mentionning before that the PSB had ripped New Order off.
I'm not reffering to any specific song. It's more the songwriting and the production work. Listen to the B-side of their first single and you'll get my point (I'm sorry but as I'm no fan of them I don't feel no obligation to remember the songs' names!). You might also remember that Neil Tennant once said that when he heard BLue Monday for the first he wanted to cry because NO had just released the exact kind of music he was looking for...before he had a chance do it himself!
There is a song on their album "Alternative" that sounds very New Orderish BTW is one of the rare songs that Chris Lowe is on vocals
Has there ever been a time when New Order might have been touring with or played with Depeche Mode? I have not followed New Order closely until a little while ago, so I am out of touch with the history of New ORder....Is New Order a friend or foe to Depeche? I would think it quite strange for cover versions of NO by DM and vice versa!!
I seriously think that Dreams by the Cranberries sounds a LOT like Love Vigilantes, at least the beginning of it.
Come on, get the song and COMPARE... do it NOW.
forgotten all about the cranberries, dreams is my favourite song of theirs. um...i didn't notice it before, but yep, it sounds kinda similar. but since they're stylistically so different, you gotta hum it to see it.
that riff on "pure" by lightning seeds reminds me a lot of the jesus and mary chains riffs. never really thought or heard new order there before. i guess i should listen to pure again.
all this talk of ripping new order off is kinda silly. before i get hung, let me explain.
"Love Reaction" by Divine is the most blatant rip off of Blue Monday that I have ever heard!!! A horrible imitation at that!
Originally posted by Chris Nash 'Death In June' desperately wanted to be Joy Division.Failed.
australia has a lot of them hahah i.e ikon as well i think severed heads thought they were new order for a while there as well
that's funny. i always thought severed heads were like a derranged new order.
there's a borrowed joy division lyric on dead can dance's album "into the labyrinth."
"procession moves on. the shouting is over. the fabulous freaks are leaving town."
you can hear more acknowledgements to joy division on their first album, aswell.
new order is ripped off far more then they have ripped off others...the Cure being the most obvious, I mean even the press has mentioned it.
Anyway as for the Pet Shop Boys, they said they wrote the song "Too Many People" with New Order in mind, they wanted to write a song that would fit on "Technique".
Originally posted by fascistnation that's funny. i always thought severed heads were like a derranged new order. there's a borrowed joy division lyric on dead can dance's album "into the labyrinth.""procession moves on. the shouting is over. the fabulous freaks are leaving town." you can hear more acknowledgements to joy division on their first album, aswell.
if you can find a copy of there stretcher album you will understand
Originally posted by phil what about Nitzer Ebb?
No way - Nitzer was their own thing, they might have stolen from someone, but it sure wasn't New Order. Also, for those talking about The Cure - there is a difference between having a song (or two) sound like another band, and your act relying on sounding like another band. The Cure has all kinds of influence in their music - blues, jazz, rock, soul, elec, etc... they are way bigger than any single band. Also, when the Cure puts out a remix album, it doesn't suck - NO could take a lesson from them in that respect.
Also, when the Cure puts out a remix album, it doesn't suck - NO could take a lesson from them in that respect.
What are you on? I can almost hear the Beavis & Butthead giggle in the background...
The Cure? The fucking CURE????
Those pantomime whores have done cock-all but release media friendly theatrical trailers since day 1. Wake up for gods sake! New Order have NOTHING to do with The Cure. The Smiths. The Pet Shop Boys. etc, etc, etc.
Those fans who liked New Order because they were part of a "scene" were way out of sync with reality. "I like New Order therefore I must also like blah, blah, blah..." Check the fucking programme for gods sake.
may I add a comment here...the cure is, are, and always will be a complete, and utter, LOAD OF FRIGGING WANK!!!
Originally posted by Subject To Conditions may I add a comment here...the cure is, are, and always will be a complete, and utter, LOAD OF FRIGGING WANK!!!
Explain yourself... not liking their style is one thing, but saying that they are a load of wank is either ignorant (because the only Cure songs you ever heard were on the radio) or the result of some unrelated childhood trauma. I love New Order, I enjoy The Cure - I will always consider NO the be the greatest, but if they didn't exist, I would probably have become a huge Cure fan.
sigh...
I don't know whether to respond in a blazing rant, or to just keep my mouth shut. Oh well what the fuck...
As someone who has been listening to both bands since the mid 80s, how the FUCK can you accuse the cure of ripping off NO purposely? Have you heard the majority of their albums?
Aside from In Between Days and maybe one or two other tracks on Head on the Door, they don't sound ANYTHING like NO! Argue and be biased all you want, but the cure have THEIR OWN SOUND! the entire boys don't cry, faith, 17seconds, and pornography sound nothing like NO's material.
When they started getting into the more synth/pop oriented sound and doing HOTD and JapWispers, yeah, they may have delved into kind of a NO-ish type sound, but hardly enough to make you say "damn! how dare they make this sound like age of consent". Please! I've never heard this accusation before anywhere even on usenet before I came here. The Cure are the cure and NO is NO. Want to claim the cure lack diversity? Listen to KissMex3 and Wish. I mean what do you expect...the cure to not play bass and fast tempos cause it might accidentally resemble some NO material? Gimmie a break!
Bottom line... all English bands from that era have some similar sounds in a few of their tracks. It's the nature of that style of music.
You wanna talk music rip-off and song cloning? Turn on the radio and check out all the Nirvana/Sound Garden rip-off bands out there *then* yell rip-off!
Leave the cure alone. They're one of the most influential bands ever to come out of the 80s. Them and NO can and will coexist peacefully.
Doubt anyone's gonna back me up in here but just note that the the above is all in *Isamu's humble opinion* Your turn :)
Originally posted by Isamu
I will back you up - I have only scratched the surface of the Cure and (as more money becomes available) I plan on going much deeper with them. It angers me when people call them just depressive synth pop - that is so not true. I wish people would hear more than 2 songs by a band before attaching some lame label to them. The Cure is their own band, as is New Order - giving credit to one without the other is evidence of blindness and not insight.
I am totally behind the two last opinions expressed.
I am a bit sick of seeing some people putting New Order "way up there", in their own category, just as if they were divine or something... For millions of Cure fans around the world, they think the same of The Cure.
And it's the same for many other bands.
I think you have to respect what bands like The Cure, New Order, Depeche Mode and the Pet Shop Boys have accomplished. Those who usually put New Order "way up there" usually like to burn down these three other bands in flames and ignore that, at some point in their career, they were going down the same road.
FOR CHRIST SAKE'S FourFortyFive, even Barney himself once said that New Order and the Pet Shop Boys were riding down the same road at the beginning of the 90's, when he collaborated with them in Electronic.
Today, I don't think The Cure sounds anything like New Order (thinking of the Bloodflowers album). But these two bands will always share a part of history together.
Eggszackly! That's just the thing... the only thing they share is their history and their popularity amoung the British, Canadian and American fans
Originally posted by ShugZV©
re: The Cure rip offthey started it.......they stole Gillians make up
I've said it before, so I'll say it again
I own a couple of records of each of these groups, I have The Singles by The Cure and Mixed Up, both of which I like and have stated before that I like them, but anything after 1991 for me is hard to listen to, I have 101 and Violator by Depeche, both of which are okay, but it was more a sense of head up the arses and believing they were bigger than they were, I slag them off a lot, mostly in jest I hasen to add, but it's funny if I always call them DEPISH cos it gets me told aff by Sebsy (which I always enjoy ) as fer The Pet Shop Boys, I have all of their singles upto 1992, and a couple of their albums (but please don't tell anyone).....see that last bit?....it was a joke, call it sarcasm people, I always slag these bands but it's tongue in cheek....now cheer up you miserable goth bastards:D
(and YES, that was a joke as well)
I have albums from all four bands. New Order being my favorite, Cure next, Depeche Mode, and the Pet Shop Boys. No-one has entered Ultravox or OMD into the equation yet - which are both high on my list of all time best bands. I used to own everything Ultravox ever did, and just about all of OMD's stuff. Here are my recommendations for those listeners who are grounded in the reality that New Order is awesome, but there are other worthy electronic / industrial / techo bands worth investigating. Do yourself a favor and check these albums out on their own merits - not rip offs from anyone, just bands who listened, appreciated, and were influenced by each other. They all have their important places in music history. Each one of them have survived for 20+ years!
OMD must have albums: Architecture And Morality Junk Culture Crush
Depeche Mode must haves: Some Great Reward Black Celebration Violator
Ultravox must haves: Rage In Eden Vienna Lament
Pet Shop Boys must haves: Actually Behavior
Cure must haves: Seventeen Seconds Japanese Whispers Paris Live or Show Live (Double) Mixed Up New Best Of double CD with acoustic bonus CD
There really isn't any reason I can think of why a New Order lover wouldn't enjoy every one of these albums.
i LOVE New Order, but the range in their sound is not nearly as wide as that of The Cure. The Cure's catalogue is not only much larger, but far more diverse. but i personally don't see how either band ripped off the other. i mean, the cure albums Seventeen Seconds, Faith and Pornography are all very derivative of Joy Division (particularly the latter), but at least they acknowledge it freely. and Atmosphere can be seen as sort of the song that inspired all of Disintegration. so i think that The Cure was infinitely more influenced by JD than NO.
i hope i don't outrage anyone with this post - i certainly don't mean to! i'm sorry if i have! :(
Originally posted by Warm Hands, Cold Heart > Originally posted by JORGE TEIXEIRA> Oh my god! Don't get me started! Anyone knows a small outfit called Pet Shop Boys?
What songs are you referring to?
I don't remember anyone mentionning before that the PSB had ripped New Order off.
I've only been a Pethead for about 16 yrs (as compared to a NO fan for about 20) and I've never heard them rip NO off. Neil and Chris are quite original.
:D:D:D:D anita
Originally posted by Wolfmann I have albums from all four bands. New Order being my favorite, Cure next, Depeche Mode, and the Pet Shop Boys. No-one has entered Ultravox or OMD into the equation yet - which are both high on my list of all time best bands. I used to own everything Ultravox ever did, and just about all of OMD's stuff. Here are my recommendations for those listeners who are grounded in the reality that New Order is awesome, but there are other worthy electronic / industrial / techo bands worth investigating. Do yourself a favor and check these albums out on their own merits - not rip offs from anyone, just bands who listened, appreciated, and were influenced by each other. They all have their important places in music history. Each one of them have survived for 20+ years!OMD must have albums:Architecture And MoralityJunk CultureCrushDepeche Mode must haves:Some Great RewardBlack CelebrationViolatorUltravox must haves:Rage In EdenViennaLamentPet Shop Boys must haves:ActuallyBehaviorCure must haves:Seventeen SecondsJapanese WhispersParis Live or Show Live (Double)Mixed UpNew Best Of double CD with acoustic bonus CDThere really isn't any reason I can think of why a New Order lover wouldn't enjoy every one of these albums.
Add Ultravox's Vienna, the John Foxx era albums, and the rest of the Pet Shop Boys catalog and you've got a winner.
:D:D:D:D:D anita...but U-vox sucked....
And just to be serious...
Listen to "Nature's Revenge" and "Shorelined Poison" on Skinny Puppy's rather fabbo "Too Dark Park" LP - especially those bass lines on "Nature's Revenge".
Perhaps it must be different over the pond but it is only since I started visiting this site that I have seen New Order being lumped in with the Cure, Depeche Mode and the Pet Shop Boys. And now even Ultravox...god forbid.
I'm sure all these other bands have had their moments but certainly in the UK New Order have absolutely nothing in common with these types of bands. Mainly because New Order attracted a completely different type of following which largely wore alot less make-up and black polo necks.
If anything I can see the link between NO and Kraftwerk and even the Smiths to a certain extent in the mid-late 80's. I quite like the PSB's but they sound fuck all like New Order.
Originally posted by Mickey Way Perhaps it must be different over the pond but it is only since I started visiting this site that I have seen New Order being lumped in with the Cure, Depeche Mode and the Pet Shop Boys. And now even Ultravox...god forbid.I'm sure all these other bands have had their moments but certainly in the UK New Order have absolutely nothing in common with these types of bands.
I dunno, we civilise these colonies, bring 'em kulture and sophistication, and they come back to haunt us with their Depeche Modes and their Pet Shop Boys. Ugh. Heathens.
Mind, dunno if I've ever told you this story (I must have, surely, considering your allegiances) but me and some Luton mates were having some 'friendly banter' with a few Zulus outside a niteclub in Torquay in maybe 84, or 85, and 'In-Between Bloody Days' came on and my mate G went 'It's New Order!' so we all disappear inside this club and it takes me about a minute before any of us goes, 'Er, hold on, this is the bloody Cure'. Still, they've got one good song, I s'pose. You can forgive 'em that.
It was getting a bit arsey with the Zulus cos they thought we were West Ham - we were wearing a lot of paisley with diamante broaches at the neck. Perish the thought, but it was fashion then. Your lot were all sporting 'taches, obviously.
Oh, and put your phone lock on - you called me FIVE TIMES from Old Trafford this week. Still, sounded lively at your end!!
I always forget about the phone lock but if you changed your name it wouldn't happen!
Old Trafford has certainly changed since my last visit, its lost its 'magical appeal' now its a 67,000 all seat behemoth. Out of all the grounds its probably suffered the most from taking the terraces away.
Not too sure whether I like all these new fangled grounds such as the Riverside, St Mary's, Stadium of Light etc as they are all the same. Even the town centres are exactly the same these days.
Taking T up to Hell-and Road tomorrow, what a lovely way to celebrate the New Year!
There's still plenty of 'taches and Burberry in our away end these days - sometimes I think its 1985 all over again.
Originally posted by anita > Originally posted by Wolfmann> I have albums from all four bands... There really isn't any reason I can think of why a New Order lover wouldn't enjoy every one of these albums.
Add Ultravox's Vienna, the John Foxx era albums, and the rest of the Pet Shop Boys catalog and you've got a winner.
:D:D:D:D:D anita...but U-vox sucked....
Yeah, U-Vox and everything after sucked huge, but the band wasn't really even Ultravox at that point. They should have changed their name.
Originally posted by Mickey Way Perhaps it must be different over the pond but it is only since I started visiting this site that I have seen New Order being lumped in with the Cure, Depeche Mode and the Pet Shop Boys. And now even Ultravox...god forbid.I'm sure all these other bands have had their moments but certainly in the UK New Order have absolutely nothing in common with these types of bands. Mainly because New Order attracted a completely different type of following which largely wore alot less make-up and black polo necks.If anything I can see the link between NO and Kraftwerk and even the Smiths to a certain extent in the mid-late 80's. I quite like the PSB's but they sound fuck all like New Order.
I wasn't really lumping NO in with PSB's. Maybe the danciest stuff from NO being a little like PSB's, but even that is a stretch. I can see similarities from New Order and Ultravox. Basically take some of NO's moodiness (kind of the Manc thing), mix in the German club sound thing and you have Ultravox - the middle of the Ultravox career that is. I don't know how you can keep NO and the Cure totally apart. I did like the one comment about The Cure being more influenced by JD than NO, I can see that. Skinny Puppy was cool too, but really not like NO. Same with Front Line Assembly, cool, but not to be mentioned along with NO. Both SP and FLA were very experimental, also unlike most anything from their time. This paragraph ought to get this thread going again for awhile. Lots of statements to get me in trouble. Let the belittling begin.
Similarities between Ultravox and New Order?! Now we know you must be jesting...;)
Back in the day when me and my mates had an impromptu party at someone's flat after a night out the types of records that were played alongside NO tunes were stuff by the Fall, the Clash, the Jam, Sex Pistols, the Specials, the Smiths (on occasion) and then onto bands like Happy Mondays, 808 State and acid house etc. None of these bands sound anything like the Order but to my mind fit more closely together given their attitudes and the era that spawned them. Though this was in no way any type of 'scene'.
Bomb the Bass and the Cookie Crew have more in common with New Order than Ultravox (and I'm being serious)...:D
Originally posted by Mickey Way Similarities between Ultravox and New Order?! Now we know you must be jesting...;)Back in the day when me and my mates had an impromptu party at someone's flat after a night out the types of records that were played alongside NO tunes were stuff by the Fall, the Clash, the Jam, Sex Pistols, the Specials, the Smiths (on occasion) and then onto bands like Happy Mondays, 808 State and acid house etc. None of these bands sound anything like the Order but to my mind fit more closely together given their attitudes and the era that spawned them. Though this was in no way any type of 'scene'. Bomb the Bass and the Cookie Crew have more in common with New Order than Ultravox (and I'm being serious)...:D
I think if you were to take NO and raise them in Germany, you would have Ultravox. The reason that there are big differences between the two bands is because of what was going on in the different countries at the time. I am not saying that NO sounds just like Ultravox. I do feel that they are very similar with their approach to music. I know it's a stretch, I am not saying it isn't. But, if the four of them were raised in Germany - keep all the same life experiences, they would have sounded a lot like Ultravox. I still can't believe that people think they sound like Kraftwerk - Kraftwerk? If you can say that with a straight face, and deny the similarities with Ultravox, then I am confused... which most of you have probably gathered by now. Also, The Clash and New Order have NO similarities at all. They have similarities with JD's earliest works... and that is it. I don't even see how they had the same attitude as New Order. I won't hear of this Clash stuff again. They were a great band, but don't let me catch any of you saying they stand alongside the Order... Sex Pistols yes, New Order NO.
Skinny Puppy's rather fabbo "Too Dark Park" LP<<
it's definitely my favorite SP album. god, it's incredible. Grave Wisdom is one of the most intense songs i've ever heard.
"nightmare running races skyward towers boil blackwater tea."
oooh.
but Smothered Hope is still my favorite.
i got the first part of my name from the SP song Film.
Originally posted by Wolfmann > Originally posted by Mickey Way> Similarities between Ultravox and New Order?! Now we know you must be jesting...;)> > Back in the day when me and my mates had an impromptu party at someone's flat after a night out the types of records that were played alongside NO tunes were stuff by the Fall, the Clash, the Jam, Sex Pistols, the Specials, the Smiths (on occasion) and then onto bands like Happy Mondays, 808 State and acid house etc. None of these bands sound anything like the Order but to my mind fit more closely together given their attitudes and the era that spawned them. Though this was in no way any type of 'scene'. > > Bomb the Bass and the Cookie Crew have more in common with New Order than Ultravox (and I'm being serious)...:D
I think if you were to take NO and raise them in Germany, you would have Ultravox. The reason that there are big differences between the two bands is because of what was going on in the different countries at the time. I am not saying that NO sounds just like Ultravox. I do feel that they are very similar with their approach to music. I know it's a stretch, I am not saying it isn't. But, if the four of them were raised in Germany - keep all the same life experiences, they would have sounded a lot like Ultravox. I still can't believe that people think they sound like Kraftwerk - Kraftwerk? If you can say that with a straight face, and deny the similarities with Ultravox, then I am confused... which most of you have probably gathered by now. Also, The Clash and New Order have NO similarities at all. They have similarities with JD's earliest works... and that is it. I don't even see how they had the same attitude as New Order. I won't hear of this Clash stuff again. They were a great band, but don't let me catch any of you saying they stand alongside the Order... Sex Pistols yes, New Order NO.
I thought Midge Ure was Scottish? And what has Germany got to do with anything?
The dance club music scene of Germany is one of the apparent biggest influences on Ultravox's and Kraftwerk's music - or it may be safer to say that Kraftwerk's music created the German dance club thing, and Ultravox contributed quite a bit as well, but no where near as much as Kraftwerk.
Err, but what has that got to do with New Order?
Anyway, I'm sure there wasn't much of a German 'dance' scene prior to Kraftwerk and anyhow you can't see much of a connection between them and NO. I would suspect that NO have been influenced by Kraftwerk rather than some generic German 'dance' scene however.
Bernard has been quoted as saying that they used to play Kraftwerk before they went on stage as JD. Indeed YSF was originally called KW1. The Musique Non-Stop album was played at New Order gigs prior to them taking the stage at a few gigs circa '87. I think there is at least some link /influence between Kraftwerk and NO.
I never said there was any link between the Clash and NO - that was just the type of music we played alongside NO records at the time.
This thread and the Ceremony thread has been a real eye opener for me. Obviously the experience of UK and USA fans is quite different.
I can't imagine the reception that the likes of Ultravox would get by NO fans if they played on the same bill...for fucks sake...they are poles apart.;)
Originally posted by Mickey Way Err, but what has that got to do with New Order?Anyway, I'm sure there wasn't much of a German 'dance' scene prior to Kraftwerk and anyhow you can't see much of a connection between them and NO. I would suspect that NO have been influenced by Kraftwerk rather than some generic German 'dance' scene however.Bernard has been quoted as saying that they used to play Kraftwerk before they went on stage as JD. Indeed YSF was originally called KW1. The Musique Non-Stop album was played at New Order gigs prior to them taking the stage at a few gigs circa '87. I think there is at least some link /influence between Kraftwerk and NO.I never said there was any link between the Clash and NO - that was just the type of music we played alongside NO records at the time. This thread and the Ceremony thread has been a real eye opener for me. Obviously the experience of UK and USA fans is quite different. I can't imagine the reception that the likes of Ultravox would get by NO fans if they played on the same bill...for fucks sake...they are poles apart.;)
I couldn't ever see them playing together either. I was just explaining how I see the two bands. I never expected anyone to agree, but I see things the way I see them. I would say that how people in the states identify with bands is totally different than that of a European. I am British, but raised in the US for most of my life. I tend to gravitate towards European music, mainly English, for the most part. My best friend both now, and one I had in High School were both fans of NO above all other bands as well. Me relating to the Manc thing would be like you relating to the Seattle grunge thing. I am sure people living in Seattle see it different than I did, and I am still in the same country.
Fair enough Wolfie. We all base our opinionions on our own personal experiences.
I am quite intrigued as to how New Order, Depeche, Cure, Ultravox etc get viewed as being similar or as part of a scene stateside. Many of the profiles of US posters list these bands as their favourites.
How did this happen? Is college radio to blame. In the UK New Order weren't really part of any identifiable scene.
Originally posted by Mickey Way Fair enough Wolfie. We all base our opinionions on our own personal experiences.I am quite intrigued as to how New Order, Depeche, Cure, Ultravox etc get viewed as being similar or as part of a scene stateside. Many of the profiles of US posters list these bands as their favourites.How did this happen? Is college radio to blame. In the UK New Order weren't really part of any identifiable scene.
That's a good guess. College and High School radio in the early eighties was the only place you heard New Order, OMD, Ultravox, Jesus And The Mary Chain, Sister's Of Mercy, Caberet Voltaire, The Smiths, Echo, Depeche Mode, The Cure, Skinny Puppy, Psychic TV, Joy Division and many others. I learned about JD and NO from a high school DJ who loved them and played them a lot on his show. All those bands were lumped into the Underground/Industrial category. Today industrial is more NIN and heavy programmed bands like that. When I was growing up, many of the previously mentioned bands were mentioned in that Industrial reference. That probably explains why all those bands get lumped together in my mind, and in the mind of other people in the states. We can help we weren't raised in Manc during the late 70's and 80's.
Its funny how things evolve. I was brought up in a provincial Midlands town which did have a rather cracking 'alternative' night throughout the 80's until the onset of Acid House.
Here you would hear the Smiths, the Sisters of Mercy and any manner of Goth shite, early Rolling Stones and whatever was in the top 10 of the Indie Charts as published by the NME at the time. JD was very rarely played but if you hassled the DJ enough we would get Temptation, Everythings Gone Green, Ceremony. Funnily enough these songs used to clear the dancefloor and leave about 10-20 of us having a mosh on the dance floor.
New Order even seemed 'alternative' up the alternative night. This leads me back to my original point a few pages ago as we were about the only people who weren't kitted out in black and would even venture up the same nightspot on Fri and Sat to hear the latest terrible Top 40 offerings and Blue Monday if you were lucky. So New Order didn't seem to fit into either the alternative or mainstream scene at the time though they had a few biggish hits.
I suspect that alot of UK NO fans in their mid-30's plus had similar experiences and thats why we cannot see whatsoever how NO can be linked in anyway to bands like Depeche, Cure, PSBs and Ultravox.
In my experience, anyone who liked any of those bands were all grouped together. The outside rare and few. Heck, New Order, OMD, and Depeche Mode played together in concert - for us that was a concert to end all concerts. 3 of our top 5 bands in one show. It would be like The Fall, New Order, and Happy Mondays playing together in Manc or The Clash, The Sex Pistols, and Joy Division. It was a big deal. Especially since OMD and New Order rarely ever played live anywhere near us.
Kraftwerk were a huge influence on NO (and JD too). They are probably the most influential act of the 70s on today's music, followed by punk in general (however you would divvy up the credit for that) and Throbbing Gristle. Unknown Pleasures is pretty much Pere Ubu/'Diamond Dogs' era Bowie/punk rock material with Kraftwerk/Neu! and dub inspired production.
Yeah, I forgot to mention early REM (Dead Letter Office, etc...) and TG in that big lumped together college / high school radio group. TG was related closer to the JD thing than the NO, Cure, OMD thing. If it wasn't for alternative radio, we would have all been listening to Richard Marx and Winger.
Originally posted by Mickey Way I suspect that alot of UK NO fans in their mid-30's plus had similar experiences and thats why we cannot see whatsoever how NO can be linked in anyway to bands like Depeche, Cure, PSBs and Ultravox.
I'm still gobsmacked that anyone can make comparisons from New Order to ... Ultravox! 
Not two bands I would ever deem to mention in the same breath. What's the commonality - they both had chart singles in 1981, or something?
They only other band comparable to New Order, in my experience, was the Smiths. Similar fanbase of similar demographics. 'nuff said.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis I'm still gobsmacked that anyone can make comparisons from New Order to ... Ultravox!
I must confess I used to frequent the 'EXTREME VOICE' site, being a big Ultravox fan in the 80's ( both Ure & Foxx era ) and of course, no one listens to U-vox or even care to own the album...
Well, similarities between NEW ORDER and ULTRAVOX?...how about they are both friends of PETER SAVILLE, the sleeve designer. Many of ULTRAVOX's album sleeves were designed by SAVILLE ( ....I thought RAGE IN EDEN cover was glorious...despite copyright problems ala ACADEMY ) and I've read an interview where Peter mentioned liking Ultravox up to a certain point where 'they lost the plot'..I certainly agree!!!
[uh-oh, a novel 
]
to share another experience from observing in the States, here's how it was around me in high school in a suburb of Seattle:
Of the few people who were into music at all, and into the the kinds we are talking about, most were into synthpop plus a few other bands. New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode, Erasure, the Cure, the Smiths, and yes, Ultravox. It was a preset list of bands that they rarely ever deviated from. I don't know who made this list. Then lite industrial started to come into it. Guitars were ok only in English, older bands. "too twangy" was a frequent complaint about anything else--such as Ceremony! Never mind the obvious rockabilly influence in the Smiths, this didn't have to be logical, most of these people had very limited musical knowledge anyway. Some liked Joy Division, but most thought JD was too loud, too punk, too much guitar, too emotional, or something. The people into this pattern were usually either university-bound, people who wear a lot of black, or both. Many but not all of the black-clad people added more industrial stuff and the Sisters of Mercy and maybe Bauhaus. And that was that.
People like that way outnumbered the people who liked lots of other music. Mostly I had few people to share the Chameleons, the Replacements, Sonic Youth, etc with and it's not like that was even very obscure music. The strict synthpop thing was boring boring boring and I failed to see what Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, whatever other throwaway synthpop was around at the time and that sappy Ultravox song that everyone wanted to slow-dance to (that was ultravox wasn't it? maybe memory fails me) had in common with the Smiths and New Order or even the Cure, who were so eclectic. now I've mellowed out and have some respect for PSB, but people's narrow horizons back then really turned me off. There were a few other subcultural-type things, like skate punks, who listened to hard-core, and grunge people just before grunge got big and turned into a joke. Some of those grunge folks really were into interesting stuff and were in bands and they helped turn me on to the local music scene.
Then I graduated and got the heck out of suburbia.
Another annoying thing is that many people in the US back then thought it was "ok" to get into that stuff--the short list or the greater variety--once you go to college. Never mind if you gave the freaks in high school crap for their musical taste, now you're in college you can listen to college rock, it's your college phase. A friend of mine in high school was told by her sister's husband's coworker that you should be careful if your kids are into that music before college--kids like that are bad news.
Over the years I've met many people and read or heard a lot of dialogue from even more people, collectively a lot of music fanatics and including a lot of musicians, who love New Order and don't limit themselves to DepecheModePetShopBoysTheCureUltravox and don't lump New Order in with those. Many people who like New Order and like postpunk in general, lots of it, and rave about bands like the Comsat Angels and the Sound, but who also love rock from its various eras and are continually looking out for new things and not stuck in the past because "there's no good music anymore". This is satisfying to me and helps me learn about unfamiliar music too.
So I think if you look at most of US society and find the majority of people who've heard of New Order, they probably lump them in with synthpop, because that's the depth of their 80's "alternative" rock knowledge--that preset list of bands that a few kids back in high school or college were into.
But we're not all like that.
in rural Louisiana, you were labeled a GODDAMN FAGGOT if you listened to NewOrder, Smiths, DMode, Erasure, Cure etc...and yes these bands were all lumped into the same catagory "Faggot Music"....not a pretty scene...
things never change in the south.
Actually, a similar thing happened to me while I was going to high school in Chicago, Illinois (USA). I was ostracized for liking DM, New Order, the Smiths, and any other similar music. A lot of people at the school were into House music at the time, as the scene was apparently jumping and popular...
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid in rural Louisiana, you were labeled a GODDAMN FAGGOT if you listened to NewOrder, Smiths, DMode, Erasure, Cure etc...and yes these bands were all lumped into the same catagory "Faggot Music"....not a pretty scene...things never change in the south.
Er, but surely they are all "Faggot Music"?
Well, 'cept for New Order - obviously - and possibly the Smiths (though wandering around with a bunch of daffs was just a tad passe in the 80's).
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid> in rural Louisiana, you were labeled a GODDAMN FAGGOT if you listened to NewOrder, Smiths, DMode, Erasure, Cure etc...and yes these bands were all lumped into the same catagory "Faggot Music"....not a pretty scene...> > things never change in the south.
Er, but surely they are all "Faggot Music"?
Well, 'cept for New Order - obviously - and possibly the Smiths (though wandering around with a bunch of daffs was just a tad passe in the 80's).
Most of the standard American males around me assume the NO, Cure, PSB, Depeche Mode, and any other band like any of these are gay. They can't imagine straight men being in any band anywhere near any of these.
Originally posted by Wolfmann Most of the standard American males around me assume the NO, Cure, PSB, Depeche Mode, and any other band like any of these are gay. They can't imagine straight men being in any band anywhere near any of these.
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword!
If you continue to lump New Order in with Depeche Mode, The Cure and the Pet Shop Boys then, really, you're gonna suffer the consequences, aren't you!
Originally posted by Wolfmann > Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid> in rural Louisiana, you were labeled a GODDAMN FAGGOT if you listened to NewOrder, Smiths, DMode, Erasure, Cure etc...and yes these bands were all lumped into the same catagory "Faggot Music"....not a pretty scene...> > things never change in the south.
Er, but surely they are all "Faggot Music"?
Well, 'cept for New Order - obviously - and possibly the Smiths (though wandering around with a bunch of daffs was just a tad passe in the 80's).
Most of the standard American males around me assume the NO, Cure, PSB, Depeche Mode, and any other band like any of these are gay. They can't imagine straight men being in any band anywhere near any of these.
Well, PSB are gay, aren't they?
And BLT and True Faith got quite a lot of play in the gay clubs in the late 80's, even into the early 90's.
Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Wolfmann> > > > Originally posted by Al Jarvis> > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid> in rural Louisiana, you were labeled a GODDAMN FAGGOT if you listened to NewOrder, Smiths, DMode, Erasure, Cure etc...and yes these bands were all lumped into the same catagory "Faggot Music"....not a pretty scene...> > things never change in the south.
Er, but surely they are all "Faggot Music"?
Well, 'cept for New Order - obviously - and possibly the Smiths (though wandering around with a bunch of daffs was just a tad passe in the 80's).
Most of the standard American males around me assume the NO, Cure, PSB, Depeche Mode, and any other band like any of these are gay. They can't imagine straight men being in any band anywhere near any of these.
Well, PSB are gay, aren't they?
And BLT and True Faith got quite a lot of play in the gay clubs in the late 80's, even into the early 90's.
Let us not forget TPK...dern'd near a gay anthem in the 80's/90's..."Kiss of death" says it all....
sigh.
Well, it's really just a perspective thing. I think Benny came to an understanding of this when a similar conversation occured on another thread. If I remember correctly, it had to do with how the songs from Brotherhood didn't click with him so well as he was so used to hearing them live the way N.O. were performing those tracks live *before* the album's release. All of you folks in the UK have been fortunate enough to have seen/heard classic NO/JD songs evolve from stage to record/CD, while us Americans can only get mainly albums and singles (this is also somewhat-related to my mini-rant in the "Is Retro worth it?" thread) that were released on college (and some high school) radio. Remember the American film "Pretty In Pink"? To us Americans, having a movie like that with a lot of cool music was like getting a really early Christmas present. And even though the college radio stations were playing NO, DM, PSB, UV, etc., they tended to play only the mainstream hits (hence why there was a period where I was tired of hearing "Blue Monday" because the friggin' radio stations would play ONLY that track!). I could remember when I would call my favorite college radio stations and request a non-single NO track, and wait a couple of hours only to hear BM or BLT for the 20th time!
So any way, as I realized with that rant over "Retro" and Mr. Disco's perspective, where you are is a factor of what you want---and don't want---to listen to, and what you may have to pay to get what you want (or don't want!). :(
The whole availability issue of music in general is a double-edged sword. Record companies and artists want to promote their music to places and demographic that are proven to be full of fans, while at the same time they never are fully aware of the actual fan base that MIGHT exist in a particular geographical area (and in effect, neglect some potential areas full of new fans). So while NO were performing a little song known as "Temptation" on stage for the first time to UK audiences, the (future, potential) American fan-base is exposed to Richard Marx, Air Supply, and Winger on the radio (the same is also said of other countries where the market for new music has similar problems in promotion and distribution). :p
So what the American NO/JD fans are saying is that all the cool, different, "underground" music was lumped together. Not because we thought they sounded the same, but because they WEREN'T the poppy crap blasted constantly on mainstream radio (Richard Marx, Air Supply, Michael Jackson, Winger, etc.). And those kids that used to make fun of people who listened to NO, DM, etc. were idiots...in Chicago, for example...when house was all over the scene, many of these house music fans never made the connection that those cool mixes the DJs were spinning were singles/LPs/remixes of great music like New Order, Depeche Mode, PSB, etc.
(Gosh, I *hope* that all made sense!)
Originally posted by M. Domingo Well, it's really just a perspective thing. I think Benny came to an understanding of this when a similar conversation occured on another thread. If I remember correctly, it had to do with how the songs from Brotherhood didn't click with him so well as he was so used to hearing them live the way N.O. were performing those tracks live *before* the album's release. All of you folks in the UK have been fortunate enough to have seen/heard classic NO/JD songs evolve from stage to record/CD, while us Americans can only get mainly albums and singles (this is also somewhat-related to my mini-rant in the "Is Retro worth it?" thread) that were released on college (and some high school) radio. Remember the American film "Pretty In Pink"? To us Americans, having a movie like that with a lot of cool music was like getting a really early Christmas present. And even though the college radio stations were playing NO, DM, PSB, UV, etc., they tended to play only the mainstream hits (hence why there was a period where I was tired of hearing "Blue Monday" because the friggin' radio stations would play ONLY that track!). I could remember when I would call my favorite college radio stations and request a non-single NO track, and wait a couple of hours only to hear BM or BLT for the 20th time!
So any way, as I realized with that rant over "Retro" and Mr. Disco's perspective, where you are is a factor of what you want---and don't want---to listen to, and what you may have to pay to get what you want (or don't want!). :(
The whole availability issue of music in general is a double-edged sword. Record companies and artists want to promote their music to places and demographic that are proven to be full of fans, while at the same time they never are fully aware of the actual fan base that MIGHT exist in a particular geographical area (and in effect, neglect some potential areas full of new fans). So while NO were performing a little song known as "Temptation" on stage for the first time to UK audiences, the (future, potential) American fan-base is exposed to Richard Marx, Air Supply, and Winger on the radio (the same is also said of other countries where the market for new music has similar problems in promotion and distribution). :p
So what the American NO/JD fans are saying is that all the cool, different, "underground" music was lumped together. Not because we thought they sounded the same, but because they WEREN'T the poppy crap blasted constantly on mainstream radio (Richard Marx, Air Supply, Michael Jackson, Winger, etc.). And those kids that used to make fun of people who listened to NO, DM, etc. were idiots...in Chicago, for example...when house was all over the scene, many of these house music fans never made the connection that those cool mixes the DJs were spinning were singles/LPs/remixes of great music like New Order, Depeche Mode, PSB, etc.
(Gosh, I *hope* that all made sense!)
And despite the success of Regret, Crystal couldn't get played on the radio here.
Originally posted by Mickey Way Its funny how things evolve. I was brought up in a provincial Midlands town which did have a rather cracking 'alternative' night throughout the 80's until the onset of Acid House.Here you would hear the Smiths, the Sisters of Mercy and any manner of Goth shite, early Rolling Stones and whatever was in the top 10 of the Indie Charts as published by the NME at the time. JD was very rarely played but if you hassled the DJ enough we would get Temptation, Everythings Gone Green, Ceremony. Funnily enough these songs used to clear the dancefloor and leave about 10-20 of us having a mosh on the dance floor.New Order even seemed 'alternative' up the alternative night. This leads me back to my original point a few pages ago as we were about the only people who weren't kitted out in black and would even venture up the same nightspot on Fri and Sat to hear the latest terrible Top 40 offerings and Blue Monday if you were lucky. So New Order didn't seem to fit into either the alternative or mainstream scene at the time though they had a few biggish hits. I suspect that alot of UK NO fans in their mid-30's plus had similar experiences and thats why we cannot see whatsoever how NO can be linked in anyway to bands like Depeche, Cure, PSBs and Ultravox.
This is an interesting discussion. I blanche at the very thought of NO being mentioned in the same sentence as,ulp, Ultravox. I don't think I'd even think of Uvox in the same catagory as PSB and DM, the latter being very good indie electro pop, the former being very bad and pompous rock-pop. Personally I'd put the cure a bit closer to NO, simply cos I got into them both about the same time and because I saw them both as post-punk bands (I think I first heard the Cure on that wierd 'k-tel does punk' 20-of-another-kind compliation, grouped with the likes of GenX, Sham69 and the Jam).
But still, the Cure are more Southern and arty and NO would be better grouped with other blunt northerner bands like Echo, the Fall etc.
In the US I guess it all goes in the catagory of 'stuff that Beavis would say sucked'.
Originally posted by 404 error > Originally posted by Mickey Way> Its funny how things evolve. I was brought up in a provincial Midlands town which did have a rather cracking 'alternative' night throughout the 80's until the onset of Acid House.> > Here you would hear the Smiths, the Sisters of Mercy and any manner of Goth shite, early Rolling Stones and whatever was in the top 10 of the Indie Charts as published by the NME at the time. JD was very rarely played but if you hassled the DJ enough we would get Temptation, Everythings Gone Green, Ceremony. Funnily enough these songs used to clear the dancefloor and leave about 10-20 of us having a mosh on the dance floor.> > New Order even seemed 'alternative' up the alternative night. This leads me back to my original point a few pages ago as we were about the only people who weren't kitted out in black and would even venture up the same nightspot on Fri and Sat to hear the latest terrible Top 40 offerings and Blue Monday if you were lucky. So New Order didn't seem to fit into either the alternative or mainstream scene at the time though they had a few biggish hits. > > I suspect that alot of UK NO fans in their mid-30's plus had similar experiences and thats why we cannot see whatsoever how NO can be linked in anyway to bands like Depeche, Cure, PSBs and Ultravox.
This is an interesting discussion. I blanche at the very thought of NO being mentioned in the same sentence as,ulp, Ultravox. I don't think I'd even think of Uvox in the same catagory as PSB and DM, the latter being very good indie electro pop, the former being very bad and pompous rock-pop. Personally I'd put the cure a bit closer to NO, simply cos I got into them both about the same time and because I saw them both as post-punk bands (I think I first heard the Cure on that wierd 'k-tel does punk' 20-of-another-kind compliation, grouped with the likes of GenX, Sham69 and the Jam).
But still, the Cure are more Southern and arty and NO would be better grouped with other blunt northerner bands like Echo, the Fall etc.
In the US I guess it all goes in the catagory of 'stuff that Beavis would say sucked'.
Interestingly enough, The Fall never was mentioned to me EVER during the whole underground music scene when I was in grade school and high school - 1980 - 1987. I did not ever hear the name "The Fall" until I came to this site. I have been around people who never really rested with the pop masses, staying on the fringes of music of the time. I mever heard anyone ever mention The Fall. Now I come to find out that they are one of the best bands ever? I still have never heard a single song by them. What do they sound like and what would be a great CD to start with?
I think the first time I saw the name "The Fall" was the first time I picked up a copy of a Peel Sessions LP while I was still shopping at the infamous Wax Trax! Records store while it was still on Lincoln/Fullerton in Chicago. A TON of bands on that older Peel Sessions label that I hadn't heard about! Honestly (and this is where I am anticipating thrown tomatoes), I haven't heard much of them for the same reason that NO, UV, etc. haven't had too much airplay (other than college radio). Come to think of it, I haven't heard much Ultravox either for the same reason(s)!
So, how would you UK lads describe the sound of The Fall to the few of us uneducated American NO/JD fans? Seriously.
Originally posted by M. Domingo I think the first time I saw the name "The Fall" was the first time I picked up a copy of a Peel Sessions LP while I was still shopping at the infamous Wax Trax! Records store while it was still on Lincoln/Fullerton in Chicago. A TON of bands on that older Peel Sessions label that I hadn't heard about! Honestly (and this is where I am anticipating thrown tomatoes), I haven't heard much of them for the same reason that NO, UV, etc. haven't had too much airplay (other than college radio). Come to think of it, I haven't heard much Ultravox either for the same reason(s)!So, how would you UK lads describe the sound of The Fall to the few of us uneducated American NO/JD fans? Seriously.
Please UK'ers respond to the above questions. Save us Americans from our apparent lack of musical fortitude... or will we forever be lost making comparisons from Ultravox to New Order and from there to Duran Duran... from there it can only get worse... Yaz? Nena? Soft Cell? Don't make me mention any others.
Some really interesting stuff in this thread...good read.
Others commented on how some members seem to feel a need to bash successful groups like The Cure, Depeche Mode, et al., so I won't spend too much time on that.
What's funny to me is I started reading this post expecting to be pointed toward NO imitators of which I might never have heard. "Here today-gone tomorrow" kind of groups that were doing their best to make music in the spirit of one of their favorite bands...you know, the kind of music a lot of us might make if given the chance.
Anyway, a group that I thought ripped NO off in a major way was Boxcar...the lead singer even sounds like he's trying to imitate Bernard. Big songs were "Freemason" and "Insect." Still, i enjoyed Vertigo, the one album I bought. Listening to it now is hilarious cuz the sound is dated, and you know that can be cool sometimes.
Nettwerk/Robert Racic produced Boxcar and they were compared to PSB and OMD, but I always thought they were paying a lot of homage to NO. Don't know if you can get the tracks off the Net or through Kazaa.
Any other imitators? Let's stay away from talking about groups that scored big on their own, and concentrate on stuff alot of us might not have heard.
