NO Remasters Disc 2 (HMV JP)

-1 wrote:

Edward Schatz wrote: Dude, take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Why all the hostility? Also, what tracks are missing from the Depeche Mode singles box sets? I have the box sets and the original CD releases (for the singles that had them) and except for maybe the off track here and there, "tons" is a bit exaggerated.

edward..

do you collect depeche mode?

there are a lot of promo releases... releases that only came out in japan (x1,x2) and stuff missing from all the singles boxes also.......there are VINYL only mixes, and promo cd mixes......

ok, for starters (unless you buy the 644 track depeche mode collection from itunes...which it claims has 59 exclusive tracks...)

another thing is they all have that stupid DRM, and YOU CANT PICK out the tracks you want, you HAVE TO BUY ALL OF THEM..

and then you're STILL missing tracks..... for starters..............................:

Nothing (Justin Strauss Dub) Strangelove (7" Blind Edit) Strangelove (The Fresh Ground Mix) A Question of Lust(Robert Margouleff Remix) Behind the Wheel (Dub) Behind The Wheel/Route 66 (Mega-Single Mix) It's No Good (Future Dub) It's No Good (Funk Dub) Useless (CJ Bolland Ultrasonar Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Mix) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Instrumental) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Down) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Bass Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Martin's Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Acapella) I Feel Loved (DJ Sweden Mix) I Feel Loved (Butcher Bros Mixes) I Feel Loved (NYC aka Club 69 Mix) etc..

how many more things do you think they left off?

now tell me how 'comprehensive' it is.

later -1

A friend and I have been trying to overcome all this, re: Depeche Mode. See what we've been up to here:

http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?p=1520961#1520961

As for the NO remasters:

Subject:

RE: Little bit nervous about the remasters (re: Japan HMV)

Body: the remasters will have allo the corresponding tracks time wise, so dont worry!

----------------- Original Message ----------------- From: Ryan Date: 06 Aug 2008, 05:04

Pete,

http://www. neworderonline. com/Forums/MessageList. aspx?ThreadID=42941

We've been discussing the current "supposed" tracklisting for the remasters between Movement and Technique, and a lot of the stuff that it has listed seems to be omitting a lot of things that still haven't seen a digital release, like one person pointed out:

ALL Confusion tracks from FAC93 Kiss Of Death, The Perfect Pit Dub Vulture Shellcock Shame Of The Nation Bizarre Dub Triangle Touched By The Hand Of Dub Beach Buggy

ARE they the final track listings, or can we expect more b-sides and special/unreleased material? Not sure how reliable the Japanese HMV website is...

Incidentally I grabbed a pressing of that "Excerpts From 'Recycle'" promo CD just in case, to get my hands on some rarer b-sides etc, in case they aren't appearing on these remasters. I sincerely hope ALL as-yet-digitally-unreleased b-sides from each era do appear on the remasters, however.

This is a perfect opportunity to get absolutely everything out there on CD rather than the old 12 inch!

Heard back from Peter Hook today. I'll give the guy credit, he's interested, polite, and writes back. The only other rock star who has ever bothered to mail me back is Gary Numan. Anyway, I don't think he understands that the fans want the remasters for the extras discs and not really for the albums themselves. I posted my message to him earlier in this thread. Here are his responses to that message and to the message containing the link to this thread:

"unless im missing something here , the term remaster means the original l-p- brought up to date , i think they have really benefitted, they have a companion disk with them of all time related odd singles that werent on albums, we resisted putting live stuff on because it was rob grettons last wish that they all be released on cd, all titles that is , as to putting demo¨s out that to me is dodgy, howwould you get us all to agreeÇ"

Regarding the thread (which I gather he read):

"interestingÇ there will be no demos only releases inc.crepescule factorey usa etc"

I sent him another message back asking him about officially released things left off like "Cries and Whispers" "Skullcrusher" and "Sputnik" as well as other 80s 12", 7", alt. versions, etc. Don't really expect to hear from him again, but hey, the guy is listening! If anyone here decides to message him, please be polite... this guy actually gives a damn about his fans.

eil.com

Movement (eil.com)

PC&L (eil.com)

Low-Life (eil.com)

Brotherhood (eil.com)

Technique (eil.com)

Let's remember that Movement, Brotherhood, and probably PC&L and Low-Life as well could all really benefit from a remastering. Not only are the original mixes dodgy (on the first two, that is), but CD pressing in the 80's really hadn't worked all the kinks out yet so they sounded thinner and colder than they should have.

I recently bought the Depeche Mode Black Celebration remaster (not a great fan of theirs but they had three good albums in a row starting with BC), and I couldn't give a shit about the extra tracks on the DVD - in that case the bonus disc really was a bonus, I got it purely because the original mastering was shit and there was a dramatic improvement in sound quality. I imagine the same will be true of these, and for me that's reason enough (the album that probably needs it least, Technique, is also the one that has a couple things I've missed). I just hope they don't compress everything to 11.

Not that I'd mind some extra tracks or rarities, to be sure, and they really should fill the discs up. But that's a good discussion in its own right. It sounds like there may not be much worth hearing that hasn't been released, so probably not too many possible surprises, which means hardcore fans probably WILL have most things already. Including off-album singles along with B sides and memorable remixes and so forth that previously have been available only on vinyl, only to mad fans who've tracked down the skinny CD singles, or not at all makes a lot of sense. Live stuff is debatable; I wouldn't mind select cuts from each era or a classic show, but that's probably an entire disc right there (which I'd buy separately too). And demos...well, cool if they're distinctively different takes on the final tracks and in decent shape, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of them aren't worth more than a single listen for curiosity's sake.

That said, I *was* very glad to get the 5th disc in Retro.

I'll have to go back and read some of those "what would you want on a remastered Insert Here?" threads.

So,in a nutshell,no Gretton,no Control.....

-1 wrote:

Edward Schatz wrote: Dude, take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Why all the hostility? Also, what tracks are missing from the Depeche Mode singles box sets? I have the box sets and the original CD releases (for the singles that had them) and except for maybe the off track here and there, "tons" is a bit exaggerated.

edward..

do you collect depeche mode?

there are a lot of promo releases... releases that only came out in japan (x1,x2) and stuff missing from all the singles boxes also.......there are VINYL only mixes, and promo cd mixes......

ok, for starters (unless you buy the 644 track depeche mode collection from itunes...which it claims has 59 exclusive tracks...)

another thing is they all have that stupid DRM, and YOU CANT PICK out the tracks you want, you HAVE TO BUY ALL OF THEM..

and then you're STILL missing tracks..... for starters..............................:

Nothing (Justin Strauss Dub) Strangelove (7" Blind Edit) Strangelove (The Fresh Ground Mix) A Question of Lust(Robert Margouleff Remix) Behind the Wheel (Dub) Behind The Wheel/Route 66 (Mega-Single Mix) It's No Good (Future Dub) It's No Good (Funk Dub) Useless (CJ Bolland Ultrasonar Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Mix) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Instrumental) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Down) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Bass Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Martin's Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Acapella) I Feel Loved (DJ Sweden Mix) I Feel Loved (Butcher Bros Mixes) I Feel Loved (NYC aka Club 69 Mix) etc..

how many more things do you think they left off?

now tell me how 'comprehensive' it is.

later -1

I do actually collect Depeche Mode. I happen to be a huge fan to boot. Most (not all) of those mixes I have. Perhaps I was just unaware of how hard it was to come by some of them but I don't think of as rare as you imply. I have other albums that are more rare (as far as I know) but eh. That's not the purpose of this thread. On the point that these editions are sorely lacking, I agree. I think that they should include all of the remixes regardless of how many CDs that would require (probably 3 on most). Given the current state of the music business, that is a fantasy at best...

Chase wrote: Let's remember that Movement, Brotherhood, and probably PC&L and Low-Life as well could all really benefit from a remastering. Not only are the original mixes dodgy (on the first two, that is), but CD pressing in the 80's really hadn't worked all the kinks out yet so they sounded thinner and colder than they should have.

I recently bought the Depeche Mode Black Celebration remaster (not a great fan of theirs but they had three good albums in a row starting with BC), and I couldn't give a shit about the extra tracks on the DVD - in that case the bonus disc really was a bonus, I got it purely because the original mastering was shit and there was a dramatic improvement in sound quality. I imagine the same will be true of these, and for me that's reason enough (the album that probably needs it least, Technique, is also the one that has a couple things I've missed). I just hope they don't compress everything to 11.

Not that I'd mind some extra tracks or rarities, to be sure, and they really should fill the discs up. But that's a good discussion in its own right. It sounds like there may not be much worth hearing that hasn't been released, so probably not too many possible surprises, which means hardcore fans probably WILL have most things already. Including off-album singles along with B sides and memorable remixes and so forth that previously have been available only on vinyl, only to mad fans who've tracked down the skinny CD singles, or not at all makes a lot of sense. Live stuff is debatable; I wouldn't mind select cuts from each era or a classic show, but that's probably an entire disc right there (which I'd buy separately too). And demos...well, cool if they're distinctively different takes on the final tracks and in decent shape, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of them aren't worth more than a single listen for curiosity's sake.

That said, I *was* very glad to get the 5th disc in Retro.

I'll have to go back and read some of those "what would you want on a remastered Insert Here?" threads.

Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

The other day I was thinking ... why does it appear that only Hooky is involved in this whole reissue/remaster thing?! Doesn't Steve, Gillian and Barney have anything to say or do in this matter?!

Very strange.

Or is it that Hooky is the voice of all of them on this one?! Can't believe that they all have the same opinion on how to approach this. But maybe it only seems the case here.

Besides, I didn't hear anything back from Hooky's MySpace regarding the bonus stuff in this thread. Expecting the worst.

Still hoping for more and complete bonus tracks on the bonus disc for the London Records label. Why can't they just USE the 80 minutes-space :\ohwell:

Edward Schatz wrote: Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

I have the Black Celebration remaster as well (my personal favourite DM album), and there seems to be very little, or no compression at all, if it is possible. Apparently Alan Wilder and the band had it under rigid control. Very far away from Singles.

...and I have to say the mini-documentary on the bonus DVD looks like a very nice touch.

Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

I totally agree with this !

To some extent I could live without bonus tracks if I knew the main album was going to remastered by someone with ears eg. Steve Hoffman or the like. However, I'm sure these remasters will sound horrible just like the appalling "Control Soundtrack" and the execrable "Singles". I have seen Hooky quoted as saying he is impressed with the sound on the remasters, however, this is the same man who was blown away by the Joy Division remasters (which were no great shakes either).

marketing genius if you ask me. This way we will maintain our interest in 2016.

Okay, Mr Discography has done a quick calculation of running times for these bonus discs, assuming it's mostly the full 12" versions of the singles. Show's there's loads of spare space left on all discs:

Movement

1. Ceremony 4:23 [if re-recorded, 2nd version]
2. Temptation (12") 8:47
3. In A Lonely Place (12") 6:12
4. EGG 5:30
5. Procession 4:26
6. Mesh 3:00
7. Hurt 8:03 Total playing time: 40:21

PC&L

1. Blue Monday 7:27
2. The Beach 7:17
3. Confusion 8:13
4. Thieves Like Us (12") 6:35
5. Lonesome Tonight 5:09
6. Murder 3:54
7. Thieves Like Us (Inst.) 6:55 Total playing time: 45:30

Low-Life

1. The Perfect Kiss (12") 8:46
2. Sub-Culture (12") 7:26
3. Shellshock (12") 9:44
4. State of the Nation (12") 6:31
5. Elegia (full version) 17:21
6. Let's Go 4:02 (assuming 1994 non-fading version)
7. Salvation Theme 2:13 Total playing time: 56:03

Brotherhood

1. BLT (12") 6:42
2. 1963 5:34
3. True Faith (12") 5:52
4. Touched by the Hand of God (12") 7:03
5. Blue Monday 88 (12") 7:08
6. Evil Dust 3:43 (12")
7. True Dub 10:43 Total playing time: 46:45

Technique

1. Don't Do It 4:29
2. Fine Line 4:44
3. Round & Round 6:50
4. Best & Marsh 4:28
5. World in Motion 4:30
6. Run 2 3:37
7. MTO 3:44
8. Vanishing Point (Inst.) 5:10
9. Fine Time (12") 4:43 Total playing time: 42:15

I can see what Hooky's saying, about the excercise being to remaster and reissue the albums; and that demos may sound scrappy on the bonus discs. However, even with that caveat, they should have at least filled the bonus discs up with some more versions of A-sides/B-sides that still only remain on vinyl. Does seem a bit of a waste.

Along with the PSB reissues, the Happy Mondays reissue of 'Bummed' was a good example of two discs being well utilised to get the maximum out of the reissue excercise.

What's the betting they'll still get it wrong and put edited/re-recorded Substance versions of the singles on there??!

Andy

Looks like Movement with the bonuses would actually fit on single disc? Unbelievable :(

Mr Discography wrote: What's the betting they'll still get it wrong and put edited/re-recorded Substance versions of the singles on there??!

Andy

That's what I am really afraid of.

Max

By the way, I'm quite sure they mixed up "Mesh" and "Cries & Whispers" once more, I would not hold my breath you'll get "Mesh" on a proper released CD at last.

I have just read the whole thread.It was so exciting is there any chance it can be included on the remasters as an audio book, read aloud by Liam? It's about 5 pages so ideally that makes 1 page per bonus disc to fill up the spare 30 odd minutes at the end of each disc? hmmm? Hmmm? Good idea yeah?

Flippin 'eck!

MASSIVELY DISAPPOINTED

surfjim wrote: MASSIVELY DISAPPOINTED

So BIG?????????

Edward Schatz wrote: Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

Yep. I never got Singles (and now I definitely won't) but that's exactly what I don't want.

Mr Discography wrote: Okay, Mr Discography has done a quick calculation of running times for these bonus discs, assuming it's mostly the full 12" versions of the singles. Show's there's loads of spare space left on all discs:

Along with the PSB reissues, the Happy Mondays reissue of 'Bummed' was a good example of two discs being well utilised to get the maximum out of the reissue excercise.

Andy

please don't use the crappy PSB 2xcd re-releases to show how lame demos, old mixes, and non album tracks can 'fill' out a disc....why don't they just put all the mixes that are missing from CD on there, like they should have , oh, about a thousand years ago?????

and good luck ever seeing any kind of complete collection, boxset, or anything else from them..

those were very disappointing to PSB fans..

not sure about happy mondays, because they never had enough material anyways...

later -1

johnny wrote: I have just read the whole thread.It was so exciting is there any chance it can be included on the remasters as an audio book, read aloud by Liam? It's about 5 pages so ideally that makes 1 page per bonus disc to fill up the spare 30 odd minutes at the end of each disc? hmmm? Hmmm? Good idea yeah?

after checking all the individual album threads for suggestions to see what should have been on these albums......didn't see ANY that could have actually worked (mine still left off stuff too)...

so, since nobody apparently can decide what they want on there, i guess we'll never know..

i kind of like the minimalistic approach.. it harkens back to a 'new order' of the past... (less is more)..

later -1

-1 wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Okay, Mr Discography has done a quick calculation of running times for these bonus discs, assuming it's mostly the full 12" versions of the singles. Show's there's loads of spare space left on all discs:

Along with the PSB reissues, the Happy Mondays reissue of 'Bummed' was a good example of two discs being well utilised to get the maximum out of the reissue excercise.

Andy

please don't use the crappy PSB 2xcd re-releases to show how lame demos, old mixes, and non album tracks can 'fill' out a disc....why don't they just put all the mixes that are missing from CD on there, like they should have , oh, about a thousand years ago?????

and good luck ever seeing any kind of complete collection, boxset, or anything else from them..

those were very disappointing to PSB fans..

not sure about happy mondays, because they never had enough material anyways...

later -1

Not sure what happened there but I'll try again

'm sorry, but the PSB albums 2nd discs gave you the distinct impression that some thought and care had been put into their production. We're not talking about loading the discs with every dumb remix every made - but selecting versions that haven't been available widely on CD.

Take the Movement disc - why can't we have Cries and Whispers and Mesh? Is there not a version of Too Late, that they recorded for the Peel Sessions, kicking around somewhere? On PC&L, why not at least another version of Confusion that's only been available on the 12". And why not the Hacienda Christmas Flexi stuff - dodgy as that may be.

Lowlife? Alternate version of Subculture available on the Record Mirror flexi? The Perfect Pit?

Brotherhood? Aussie mix of Paradise? Where's that?

Technique? If a bootlegger can make a perfectly acceptable version of The Happy One, why the hell can't the band that actually produced it do so? The mind fucking boggles, it's not like they're all really busy. I wouldn't mind at least one of the Kevin Saunderson Detroit techno mixes of Round & Round on the second disc. Is that going to happen? Is it FUCK!!!!!!

So -1, the PSB reissues were seen as an opportunity to round up selected stuff that wasn't that widely available. That is what this project should have been, and the fact that it isn't is fucking despicable, lazy, and a real pain in the fucking arse.

Wilson and Gretton may have had their critics around mismanagement, but you could have guaranteed that if they were involved in this project, it would have been fucking great.

-1 wrote:

please don't use the crappy PSB 2xcd re-releases to show how lame demos, old mixes, and non album tracks can 'fill' out a disc....why don't they just put all the mixes that are missing from CD on there, like they should have , oh, about a thousand years ago?????

and good luck ever seeing any kind of complete collection, boxset, or anything else from them..

those were very disappointing to PSB fans..

not sure about happy mondays, because they never had enough material anyways...

later -1

I'll use whatever examples I think are appropriate, thank you. I'd suggest those releases were dissappointing to you, rather than all PSB fans, as they seem very well liked by PSB fans that post on this forum and their own message boards - including me!

I'm sure most of us would be bored witless by a CD collection that collates together all mixes of all tracks by New Order/PSB/DM, as there's so many of them on 12"s/promos/edits, etc. It'd be expensive, probably not sell that well, and would be one for the true completists only!

But one, full bonus CD with a couple of different (possibly previously vinyl-only) mixes of each single; B sides and a few interesting rarities would be much appreciated with these reissues, and would be a more comprehensive representation of what the band were up to at the time of each album.

Andy

Emile Strunz wrote: Not sure what happened there but I'll try again

'm sorry, but the PSB albums 2nd discs gave you the distinct impression that some thought and care had been put into their production. We're not talking about loading the discs with every dumb remix every made - but selecting versions that haven't been available widely on CD.

Take the Movement disc - why can't we have Cries and Whispers and Mesh? Is there not a version of Too Late, that they recorded for the Peel Sessions, kicking around somewhere? On PC&L, why not at least another version of Confusion that's only been available on the 12". And why not the Hacienda Christmas Flexi stuff - dodgy as that may be.

Lowlife? Alternate version of Subculture available on the Record Mirror flexi? The Perfect Pit?

Brotherhood? Aussie mix of Paradise? Where's that?

Technique? If a bootlegger can make a perfectly acceptable version of The Happy One, why the hell can't the band that actually produced it do so? The mind fucking boggles, it's not like they're all really busy. I wouldn't mind at least one of the Kevin Saunderson Detroit techno mixes of Round & Round on the second disc. Is that going to happen? Is it FUCK!!!!!!

So -1, the PSB reissues were seen as an opportunity to round up selected stuff that wasn't that widely available. That is what this project should have been, and the fact that it isn't is fucking despicable, lazy, and a real pain in the fucking arse.

Wilson and Gretton may have had their critics around mismanagement, but you could have guaranteed that if they were involved in this project, it would have been fucking great.

Can't comment on the PSB stuff,the Mondays' ones were fine,but,yep,all in all,that's along the lines of what most people want & about right

& has been mentioned,& what I thought myself,all the Movement stuff will fit on cd so,I'm sorry,it's damn fookin' poor & annoying & a rip-off.It's a long way from the Factory days when ATH said that if you want people to buy your product,make it worth buying,not just the packaging,but content as well :\ohwell:

Mr Discography wrote: I'll use whatever examples I think are appropriate, thank you. I'd suggest those releases were dissappointing to you, rather than all PSB fans, as they seem very well liked by PSB fans that post on this forum and their own message boards - including me!

I'm sure most of us would be bored witless by a CD collection that collates together all mixes of all tracks by New Order/PSB/DM, as there's so many of them on 12"s/promos/edits, etc. It'd be expensive, probably not sell that well, and would be one for the true completists only!

But one, full bonus CD with a couple of different (possibly previously vinyl-only) mixes of each single; B sides and a few interesting rarities would be much appreciated with these reissues, and would be a more comprehensive representation of what the band were up to at the time of each album.

Andy

Completely agree - multiple CD's full of versions of the same track would bore me senseless - the PSB reissues are a perfect example of how a remaster should be - include a couple of demos, the odd vinyl-only remix, and everyone's happy. Just filling up a CD with World In Motion remixes would, however, annoy Shug, so that should be a starter for 10! :p

7" exclusive promo edits would only appeal to a small minority of fans...

What is happening, however, seems to be replicating the Substance tracks on the second CD's, so a somewhat missed opportunity there.

Demo versions, however, are probably not there because some members of the band (all?) probably wouldn't want those versions available (i.e. imperfect singing (!), guitars, drums, bass)... Annoying, but what can you do?

In the forthcoming 808 State reissues, Graham Massey's sensibly chosen a couple of rare mixes, some unreleased live versions and some previously unheard of demos. Other demos which don't appear on the reissues can be downloaded free of charge from the website. So, essentially those remasters are looking a lot better than these! :)

Ah well, we'll have to wait for the exact tracklistings to be determined - some of those tracks listed on HMV Japan/Esprit might be different versions that aren't currently listed, but I'm not holding my breath... At least we'll get True Dub! :p

Can i just add the PET SHOP BOYS 2 cd collection is SUPERB both in content and design!

ROCKET MICK wrote: Can i just add the PET SHOP BOYS 2 cd collection is SUPERB both in content and design!

You can indeed!