Hello,

here some infos i got from very reliable source. It's what might come out (say might, because some remixes names sounds blurry to me). Few changes in fact since HMV Japan announces. In boold, the addies.

Movement

1. Ceremony (04.25)
2. Temptation (07.01)
3. In A Lonely Place (06.14)
4. Everything's Gone Green (05.32)
5. Procession (04.29)
6. Mesh (03.27)
7. Hurt (08.07) 8. Cries And Whispers (03.03)9. Ceremony (Alt. Version) (04.36)10. Temptation (12” Mix)

PCL

1. Blue Monday (07.32)
2. The Beach (07.22)
3. Confusion (08.15)
4. Thieves Like Us (06.38)
5. Lonesome Tonight (05.13)
6. Murder (03.57)
7. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) (06.59) 8. Confusion (Alt Version) (07.36)

Low-Life

1. The Perfect Kiss (08.49)
2. Subculture (07.26)
3. Shellshock (John Robie Remix) (06.28)
4. State Of The Nation (06.33)
5. Elegia (17.28)
6. Let’s Go (03.43) (seems to be 94 version)
7. Salvation Theme (2.16) 8. Dub Vulture (07.56)

Brotherhood

1. Bizarre Love Triangle (06.43)
2. 1963 (05.37)
3. True Faith (Shep Pettibone Remix) (09.03)
4. Touched By The Hand Of God (07.06)
5. Blue Monday '88 (07.10)
6. Evil Dust (03.43)
7. True Faith - True Dub (07.51) 8. Beach Buggy (07.20)

Technique

1. Don't Do It (04.33)
2. Fine Line (04.45)
3. Round And Round (06.51)
4. Best & Marsh (04.32)
5. Run (II) (05.26)
6. MTO (05.27)
7. Fine Time (Silk Mix) (06.19)
8. Vanishing Point Instrumental (5.12)
9. World In Motion (Cabinieri Mix) (5.55)

that's it

I hope this isn't the final version!

2. Temptation (07.01)

87 version on Movement? You must be joking..

6. Mesh (03.27)
7. Cries And Whispers (03.03)

...and guess what, the wrong way round again!

3. Shellshock (John Robie Remix) (06.28)

Ummm... if there ever was a non-Robie version, could we have that instead, please? Plus, this isn't the full version (09:41).

6. Let’s Go (03.43) (seems to be 94 version)

Seems to be Salvation! version to me?

7. True Faith - True Dub (07.51)

Yes, who cares if the last three minutes are missing.

5. Run (II) (05.26)
6. MTO (05.27)

Quite odd to put the extended 12" versions on there, but not the 7" versions.

These are the times given on the document i have. Things could turn wrong again.

'True Faith - True Dub' is a nineties remix unfortunately and not the original dub, not too sure which one though (or why).

Oh, for fuck's sake...

honestly, if this turns out to be true, this is so much of a disappointment (once more). I wasn't too pleased with the jd-re-issues. but as a fan you simply fall for that kind of rip-off. Yes, i got all three. but i refuse to buy these, (and i refuse to come back as a bug or as a rabbit!). Some live-recordings would have been lovely!

... i still can't believe it! :(

johnny james wrote: 'True Faith - True Dub' is a nineties remix unfortunately and not the original dub, not too sure which one though (or why).

why do you say that? there doesn't seem to be any other odd remixes in there

So they include the 1987 versions of Confusion and Temptation, and now hopefully the original recordings as "alternates". At least this is all a bit more thorough.

I don't know why it's such a disappointment, they're all good tracks aren't they? What do you expect exactly? Some of you want live tracks, some unheard stuff, some remixes, some re-recorded versions (yikes!)...I mean exactly who is ever going to be pleased whatever happens?

johnny james wrote: I don't know why it's such a disappointment, they're all good tracks aren't they? What do you expect exactly? Some of you want live tracks, some unheard stuff, some remixes, some re-recorded versions (yikes!)...I mean exactly who is ever going to be pleased whatever happens?

True, but apart from about 4 or 5 tracks (Run2 12" single, TPK 12", DubVulture...), all have been released on CD before...

So, yes, I guess it satisfies those that don't have Substance... :p

Well, if this is the case, that's a few quid saved to spend on things i don't already own....

johnny james wrote: 'True Faith - True Dub' is a nineties remix unfortunately and not the original dub, not too sure which one though (or why).

Yes, it's actually one of the Tall Paul remixes (eschreamer dubbier) going by the timing. Can't see what this has to do with "Brotherhood" (even if it was the Shep P mix they intended to put on there).

I like to have the 9:42 version (12" Version) of Shellshock on the Low Life bonus disc instead of this 'Substance 1987'-edit. There's a whole verse PLUS a wonderful cool break missing in the song IF you use the foolish edit (which has already been done a couple of times before. Please don't chop off 3 important minutes ... London Records ... are you awake ?!

Yeah, this is getting beyond a joke. It's obvious that we aren't going to get a definitive compilation any time soon, so I'm going to digitally compile and locate them all myself. The "Excerpts From 'Recycle'" was a good starting point. I'll be branching off from that soon.

"If you want something done, do it yourself!"

looking at the Low-life disc I think they've missed the point by including the full length of Sub-culture, but only using the 1987 edit of Shellshock. Whoever chopped off those last 2-3 of Sub-culture minutes was very wise.

Does anyone think that the lack of any new or rare material points to the possibility of a future release that will collect that material? Or more likely they haven't got much or possibly that Barney doesn't want to release it

Are all the CD 1's going to be devoted to the original albums?

For what i read, yes. CD1 are albums. But beware, it was not an official statement, so it's always subject to change. I tell you when i'll learn more.

I'm not so happy with the 'Whoever chopped off those last 2-3 of Sub-Culture minutes was very wise'-statement from someone earlier today.

I think that NOTHING has to be chopped off if you want to do a really great job on remastering/reissuing and that your intention is that you finally give your fans the songs they so long waited for. After all these years: just do the job and finally use the real 12 inch versions. That is for Shellshock especially.

I can't understand these thing really. If I work for a record label and was involved in reissues etc. I'll make a stand for the originals and how they appeared on vynil and/or cassette sources. Those masters belong on CD in these modern ages. If somebody from the record company think otherwise and wants to stop me for doing those things properly: I quit immediately.

But no, nobody wants to lose their jobs, so let's listen to our bosses and make as much money as we can out of it so that we can do another one in the (far) future. It's disgusting if you think about it.

For instance: look at the reissues/remasters of U2, Thompson Twins, Blancmange from this year: EVERYTHING they (the fans) were missing was on those discs one or the other. And if it wasn't on it: it was released earlier.

Why can't New Order win? Can they only lose?!

I can't understand these thing really. If I work for a record label and was involved in reissues etc. I'll make a stand for the originals and how they appeared on vynil and/or cassette sources. Those masters belong on CD in these modern ages. If somebody from the record company think otherwise and wants to stop me for doing those things properly: I quit immediately.

But no, nobody wants to lose their jobs, so let's listen to our bosses and make as much money as we can out of it so that we can do another one in the (far) future. It's disgusting if you think about it.

It's a pity there aren't more like you in the music industry, sadly it's all about Product = Profit. Unless of course we just don't buy them, but we probably will...

play.com

Movement

PC&L

Low-Life

Brotherhood

Technique

Shoddy work....

murder,

thieves like

79 order wrote: murder, thieves like

Well said! (laughs)

"Can't please everyone" has come up quite a few times during these discussions. Can I turn that argument round for a second:

Hands up, who prefers the "Senses" intro to stay cut-off (missing the first few beats) like it is on all current CD versions?

Hands up, who thinks "Cries & Whispers" should be called "Mesh" because that was what it was called on "Substance" CD2.

Hands up, who prefers the Substance edit of Shellshock instead of the 12".

Hands up, who likes the digital drop-outs in True Faith, the resulting "steal the light" and "morning stun" lyrics give the song a whole new meaning.

Hands up, who prefers a "World In Motion" remix instead of "The Happy One" as a bonus track on Technique CD2.

Is it really too much to ask for?

johnny james wrote: 'True Faith - True Dub' is a nineties remix unfortunately and not the original dub, not too sure which one though (or why).

WTF? My Fac183R 12" has a B-side, called "True Dub"!

Tokoloshe Man wrote: play.com

Movement

PC&L

Low-Life

Brotherhood

Technique

Who was the fool behind these tracklistings? I'm not talking about the tracks chosen per se, but the friggin running order! Take Movement, for instance:

1 Ceremony 2 Temptation 3 In A Lonely Place 4 Everything's Gone Green 5 Procession 6 Mesh 7 Hurt 8 Cries And Whispers 9 Ceremony (Alt. Version) 10 Temptation (12" Mix)

So Temptation is track number 2? Before In a lonely place? And that alternative version of Ceremony is track number 10? Honestly, who made this up?

1 Ceremony 2 Temptation 3 In A Lonely Place 4 Everything's Gone Green 5 Procession 6 Mesh 7 Hurt 8 Cries And Whispers 9 Ceremony (Alt. Version) 10 Temptation (12" Mix)

So Temptation is track number 2? Before In a lonely place? And that alternative version of Ceremony is track number 10? Honestly, who made this up?

...it's supposed to be a listening experience rather than a strict chronological thing, I don't want to hear Ceremony twice or Temptation twice in a row. Not too sure why IALP is after Temptation though, nor C&W after Hurt.

Lucas Lefel wrote:

For instance: look at the reissues/remasters of U2, Thompson Twins, Blancmange from this year: EVERYTHING they (the fans) were missing was on those discs one or the other. And if it wasn't on it: it was released earlier.

Why can't New Order win? Can they only lose?!

please tell me you are joking...no seriously..

i have all the u2 remasters, and there are a ton of mixes and tracks missing from those, all the bonus discs only take up about 1 hour at the most, and there is plenty of time left on the original album side all also..

i give it a C+ for effort..

all of the thompson twins remix discs (not the original+cass discs) are also missing tons of extra tracks and mixes..... on the here's to future days, several 'lay your hands on' mixes are missing, don't mess with doctor dreams is missing a crucial remix, there are tons of edits that were not included..

i give it a B- for effort again..

i'm not even going to talk about the blancmange releases (and neither should you), since they haven't released a track listing either..

i collect all there singles, and i'll be in complete shock if they can put about 70% of their mixes and b-sides on those discs, and don't mess up the mastering..

you just had 3 strikes.......do you care to pick better examples.....

my point is, STILL, YOU WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH THE NEW ORDER RELEASES NO MATTER WHAT THEY PUT ON THERE..

even if they were 3CD sets, they would still be missing tracks, and you would complain..

even if they included all the mixes, you would want b-sides, live tracks, and demos...

GIVE UP NOW...... you've already made up your mind that you're not going to be happy..

so why do you still complain?

later -1

Lucas Lefel wrote:

I can't understand these thing really. If I work for a record label and was involved in reissues etc. I'll make a stand for the originals and how they appeared on vynil and/or cassette sources. Those masters belong on CD in these modern ages. If somebody from the record company think otherwise and wants to stop me for doing those things properly: I quit immediately.

But no, nobody wants to lose their jobs, so let's listen to our bosses and make as much money as we can out of it so that we can do another one in the (far) future. It's disgusting if you think about it.

i guess you really don't know how things work...

if you did work for the record company, you would understand how licensing and royalties work.. you would also understand how budgeting works...you would also want to be a manager..

because if i was one, and you said something against me, i would fire you for not doing your job, and hire someone else..... go ahead and quit, it won't prevent it from being released......

i guess you never had a job you liked, and wanted to keep it, maybe you thought the fans could get better tracks, but its not your place to say so, so at least you would help in getting something put out, instead of nothing..

you are either very foolish, or very selfish, or both..

i didn't work for a label , but for a year or two, i was working closely with the industrial band KMFDM, and saw how much work was involved in getting their releases prepared, videos put out, merchandise, re-releases, and remixes done.....it was not an easy task at all, and they didn't have as many fans as new order, but the management still tried to please the fans with most of their requests....and more..

later -1

Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising,but if this is the result.......FOR FUCKS' SAKE LONDON & WHOEVER IS BEHIND IT,YOU'RE SO FOOKING WRONG!!!!

-1;

here are the blancmange :

'HAPPY FAMILIES' TRACKLISTING - I Can't Explain, Feel Me, I've Seen The Word, Wasted, Living On The Ceiling, Waves, Kind, Sad Day, Cruel, God's Kitchen, Living On The Ceiling (extended version), God's Kitchen (12 mix), Feel Me (extended 12 version), Feel Me (7 + 12 instrumental), Business Steps, Feel Me (US 12 instrumental)

'MANGE TOUT TRACKLISTING - CD ONE - Don't Tell Me, Game Above My Head, Blind Vision, Time Became The Tide, That's Love That It Is, Murder, See The Train, All Things Are Nice, My Baby, The Day Before You Came, Game Above My Head (long version). CD TWO - Blind Vision (long version), Heaven Knows Where Heaven Is, On Our Way To?, That's Love That It Is (extended), Vishnu (full length), That's Love That It Is (remix), Vishnu (instrumental), Don't Tell Me (extended), Get Out Of That, Feel Me (live version), All Things Are Nice (version), The Day Before You Came (extended)

'BELIEVE YOU ME' TRACKLISTING - Lose Your Love, What's Your Problem, Paradise Is, Why Don't They Leave Things Alone?, 22339, Don't You Love It All, Believe, Lorraine's My Nurse, Other Animals, No Wonder They Never Made It Back!, John, Side Two, Mixing On The Ceiling (Megamix), I Can See It (Why Don't They Leave Things Alone) (extended), Scream Down The House

bc2323 wrote: -1;

here are the blancmange :

i don't want to turn this into a blancmange post, thanks for the listing..

needless to say, they've left of a ton of stuff, and most of the b-sides have already been released on cd on the several best of compilations already released...

does that sound familiar?

oh well, i'm still getting them..

thanks,.. later -1

There are no rules as to what is put on remasters, in some way it's throwing away rarities by giving them on a bonus disc. If you buy the new My Bloody Valentine remasters you get NO extra tracks (that's none at all folks!), what you get there is a remastered album (like it says on the tin) and nothing else (I'm not counting the extra Loveless disc with the same tracks but from an analogue source).

-1, I don't like to be given names by you because you think you know how things work.

Let me first say that I am VERY HAPPY that those New Order remasters/reissues are finally going to appear in Collectors Editions AND that I'm VERY HAPPY that most of my favourite tracks are all on them in the version that I like. So that's finally out.

I understand now that you don't want to turn this in a Blancmange post because you're wrong on that one: it's a full tracklist of everything that was released in those 3 album-periods, point.

And THAT was what I meant when I talked about U2, Thompson Twins & Blancmange: every track was released and MOST of them in their complete official remixed form also. So: who's complaining with that 'they've left of a ton of stuff'?! One thing about the Thompson Twins - Here's To Future Days Deluxe Edition: That track Don't Mess With Doctor Dream you were talking about what appears to be missing isn't the case here at all: Shoot Out (the first track after the albumtracks) is that remix that you think is missing. (on the official 12 inch) It's called the ([U4A]+[U3A]=Remix) done by Tom Bailey and engineered by Jay Mark. The only fact is that it was indeed released as a separate 12 inch at the time (september 1985). So because of the missing name [U4A]+[U3A], it looked like it wasn't on the Deluxe Edition, but it is.

If you want to protect the record companies by saying what you do, that's fine with me, but with people like you there will never be speciality in reissues. It's like thirteen in a dozen for me. Being afraid to stand for something is always a bad thing, regardless of WHERE you work, that's my impression in life. Besides: I am very happy with my jobs (in the past, present AND future).

Have a nice day

kel wrote: Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising

Is there a transcript anywhere, or can you provide some scans?

Ryan wrote:

kel wrote: Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising

Is there a transcript anywhere, or can you provide some scans?

I can but it'll have to be tomorrow

Lucas Lefel wrote: -1, I don't like to be given names by you because you think you know how things work.

sorry about that, you just came out very hostile, and so did i..

Let me first say that I am VERY HAPPY that those New Order remasters/reissues are finally going to appear in Collector's Editions AND that I'm VERY HAPPY that most of my favourite tracks are all on them in the version that I like. So that's finally out.

good, i am too...you just didn't sound very happy..

I understand now that you don't want to turn this in a Blancmange post because you're wrong on that one: it's a full tracklist of everything that was released in those 3 album-periods, point.

oh no its not, what about the irene and mavis EP, what about the other us remixes, such as 6min edit of 'lose your love', what about the US remixes for 'don't tell me', etc, etc, etc..

And THAT was what I meant when I talked about U2, Thompson Twins & Blancmange: every track was released and MOST of them in their complete official remixed form also. So: who's complaining with that 'they've left of a ton of stuff'?!

and don't you think new order is including most of their tracks?

One thing about the Thompson Twins - Here's To Future Days Deluxe Edition: That track Don't Mess With Doctor Dream you were talking about what appears to be missing isn't the case here at all: Shoot Out (the first track after the albumtracks) is that remix that you think is missing. (on the official 12 inch) It's called the ([U4A]+[U3A]=Remix) done by Tom Bailey and engineered by Jay Mark. The only fact is that it was indeed released as a separate 12 inch at the time (september 1985). So because of the missing name [U4A]+[U3A], it looked like it wasn't on the Deluxe Edition, but it is.

sorry, don't want to turn this into a TT thread either: i don't have my vinyl with me, but from all the sources, (and i really should go back and check)... why is 'shoot out' only 6:23, and the u4au3a mix 6:38? every source i've checked (discogs, virtual discography, etc...) seems to say otherwise.. http://www.discogs.com/release/578224

i know other sources (notably wikipedia)...say its the same... but its still confusing..check out discogs again http://www.discogs.com/release/918013

If you want to protect the record companies by saying what you do, that's fine with me, but with people like you there will never be speciality in reissues. It's like thirteen in a dozen for me. Being afraid to stand for something is always a bad thing, regardless of WHERE you work, that's my impression in life. Besides: I am very happy with my jobs (in the past, present AND future).

Have a nice day

hey, i like my job too, but its coming to an end, (not something i can control)..... sometime lifes like that... but you move on, and fight other battles, and hopefully you can win them next time..

later -1

kel wrote:

Ryan wrote:

kel wrote: Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising

Is there a transcript anywhere, or can you provide some scans?

I can but it'll have to be tomorrow

Cheers!

bc2323 wrote:

Low-Life

4. State Of The Nation (06.33)

-1 (or Minus One, because I think you lose again on your points), I have one last thing about the Thompson Twins: the 6:38 remix of Don't Mess With Doctor Dream which we both talk about IS the 6:23 version on the Deluxe Edition (which is called Shoot Out on the EP/bonus 12" which was given with the album back in 1985. Those two are the same (even the engineer and the remixer is the same). There was never a 6:38 version. That time was wrongly spelled on the vinyl 12 inch single. I am familiar with the Discogs-site and I use that one a lot, but according to my vinyl collection these two are the same. So that's Minus One ... :p

Finally, about Blancmange: you missed my point in the fact that I meant that all titles (every song that's been released by the duo) is present on those upcoming 3 reissues/remasters. I didn't meant remixes. So that's Minus Two. :p

Really, I hope I helped you out of this.

I like to say that indeed I am happy that New Order is including most of it's tracks on the upcoming Collectors Editions. So, at least, we go equal on that one.

Again, have a nice day

Lucas Lefel wrote: -1 (or Minus One, because I think you lose again on your points),

Finally, about Blancmange: you missed my point in the fact that I meant that all titles (every song that's been released by the duo) is present on those upcoming 3 reissues/remasters. I didn't meant remixes. So that's Minus Two. :p

OFFTOPIC:

what good is it to have the single versions, when we've been asking for the remixes for decades?

how long do you think i've been waiting for that 10 minute remix of 'lose your love'? oh well, i guess no else is getting it either...i'll stick to my vinyl remasters..

later -1

My resolve not to buy these remasters is weakening by the day. It's like I have a little gremlin whispering in my ear: "Go on, buy them. New Order albums remastered, buy them! At least get Power Corruption & Lies, Low Life and Brotherhood. All remastered!" Yes, that's it - a little gremlin. Probably employed by London Records.

Really, I've been as critical as anybody of these releases as they've failed to follow the pattern of most/all "collectors edition" releases of other albums by other bands insofar as there's no unreleased material being unearthed, but this being New Order we shouldn't be too surprised. And if they want to use this opportunity to release a comprehensive (albeit not all-inclusive) career retrospective of the Factory years then these discs aren't too far off the mark.

I think other than the somewhat puzzling running order on the Movement and Brotherhood discs, the only real question marks for me are:

1)why the shortened Shellshock instead of the full 12" which--if it remains the truncated version-- remains to me the most glaring omission of their CD catalog? Especially if they are releasing the full Perfect Kiss on the same disc. They obviously went back to find 45 seconds there so why not the missing minutes (and the included verse) from Shellshock?

2)If you're going to include Salvation Theme and Let's Go, then why not Skullcrusher (especially) and Sputnik? There's room on the disc.

3. Why can't we just get an official version of The HAppy One. We know it's out there. And you know that we know that you know where it is.

Oh, and why is State of the Nation on the Low-Life when it was originally on the Brotherhood CD?

Those 2 me are the glaring issues with an otherwise pretty complete yet listenable introduction (by this I mean that to include all the remixes would perhaps overwhelm the casual fan or maybe more importantly to the band the MOJO reviewer who would have to sit through them all just to try to get to some new bits) to the New Order catalog.

Now those are just what I think are almost mandatory changes which should be made before these things come out, but me being me I've also got a couple of suggestions that I think would make the whole project better/more complete without completely overwhelming the neophyte with remixes galore yet would give a nod to the completeist in me.

Movement bonus: other than the running order, looks pretty good. definitely move the '87 Temptation to the end of the disc as it would sound out of context in the middle of the early stuff.

PC&L: add Confusion '87 to the end of the disc and if you really wanted to be cool, put the xmas flexi tracks on the end as unlisted bonus tracks.

Low-life bonus: shift SOTN to Brotherhood. Add Kiss of Death (7") and Perfect Pit (as well as Skullcrusher and Sputnik). Maybe use the 7" Dub-vulture and put shellcock on as well. Record Mirror Sub-culture as unlisted bonus track would be cheeky.

Brotherhood bonus: add Shame of the Nation (7"?) and Touched By the Hand of Dub.

Technique bonus: definitley add The Happy One and one of the Round & Round remixes (the Detroit Mix I think was pretty good?). Sister Ray from "Like a Girl..." again unlisted would be cool.

Anyway, that's what I think.

London Records lick balls. Fucking pricks.

Suzuki, I think you made a very good point. Especially the point that I made earlier about Shellshock: we are missing 3 minutes plus. I think most peolpe really don't have an idea about the full version since it was only on vinyl back in 1986. Maybe most New Order fans don't even know it was always the shortened/edited version that appeared on CD compilations. I thought it was because of disc time problems or so (because that Low Life bonus disc looks full with that tracklisting) but according to your information it is possible to include the full version of (at least) Shellshock. I also hope that it's going to be fixed. I will send an email to London Records later today about this topic. Hoping that they will pick it up before release.

[Offtopic] -1, I think you are absolutely right on the Blancmange topic: Lose Your Love isn't presented on those reissues/remasters in it's full glory and that's somehow a bit irritating (after all those years of waiting and hoping for it on a CD). The Irene & Mavis EP was a career start for the duo and it was released before they had signed to London Records.

Let's hope it will appear somehow, somewhere...

Suzuki wrote: Oh, and why is State of the Nation on the Low-Life when it was originally on the Brotherhood CD?

Brotherhood bonus: add Shame of the Nation (7"?) and Touched By the Hand of Dub.

Anyway, that's what I think.

well you can think what you like, that doesn't change the facts:

title release date

The Perfect Kiss May 1985 Lowlife (LP) May 1985 Sub-Culture Oct 1985 Shellshock Mar 1986 State of the Nation Aug 1986

Brotherhood (LP) Oct 1986 Bizarre Love Triangle Nov 1986 etc..

since they were released before 'brotherhood' actually came out... it makes more sense to include it with lowlife...

'touched by the hand of dub' is already on cd.... what you really want is this:

touched by the hand of god (arthur baker remix) 7:56 cd

which is only on these releases:

CD: GE 1988 (Interphon IPCD 2022-36) *** CD: JP 1988 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor VDP-1345) *** CD: JP 1992 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor-JVC VICP-23032) ***

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/soundtracks/salvation.html

this version blows away the original remix ....it is way more intense, and much cooler...

later -1

-1 wrote:

well you can think what you like, that doesn't change the facts:

title release date

The Perfect Kiss May 1985 Lowlife (LP) May 1985 Sub-Culture Oct 1985 Shellshock Mar 1986 State of the Nation Aug 1986

Brotherhood (LP) Oct 1986 Bizarre Love Triangle Nov 1986 etc..

since they were released before 'brotherhood' actually came out... it makes more sence to include it with lowlife...

Those "facts" actually mean nothing here.

Actually it doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you are in tune with the chronology of the band as an artistic entity as opposed to a list of release dates and catalog numbers. It was included on the original CD of Brotherhood. It and " As it is when it was" were 2 new songs honed to a final product during the Low-life tour, and I don't suppose we should take the latter song and stick it on Low-life bonus disc? If you look at the sleeves, it is much more in line thematically with the BLT 12" and Brotherhood sleeve than anything during the Low-life era. In fact there's an Australian poster promoting the SOTN single, BLT single and Brotherhood LP all together while listing the back catalog down in the corner (which includes Low-Life), so I think it was considered a current release when Brotherhood was out. Also, by your logic Blue Monday would be on Movement since it came out a couple of months before PC&L. I think it would probably be easier to argue that Shellshock belongs on Brotherhood than to in any way try to wedge State of the Nation onto Low-life.

And actually what I meant on the TBTHODub was to put (7") after it so as to cut down on the time of remixes on the discs. That was my mistake.

Suzuki & -1, let me put some things out of the way for both of you:

According to the Claude Flowers book - Dreams Never End (New Order + Joy Division) from 1994 (Omnibus Press) which I own (it's a wonderful book), State Of The Nation was actually recorded in the Far East (Japan) during april 1985 when they had some left-over studio time. The song took about a week to finish and the engineers never slept according to Rob Gretton.

Anyway, Shame Of The Nation is actually recorded in early october 1985 and was the b-side on that 7 inch & 12 inch. Shellshock was also recorded in october 1985 with John Robie. Then, after that came Brotherhood and the Bizarre Love Triangle (7 inch & 12 inch) single in november 1986.

So, the song (State Of The Nation) is actually from the Low Life-period if you look at timeframes. that's why (just like Shellshock) it appears on the Low Life bonus disc I think. The strange thing about the song (State Of The Nation) was the fact that it indeed sounded very Brotherhood-ish and was included as the last track (only) on the CD. Like Suzuki said, even the artwork looks Brotherhood-ish (just like the Shellshock cover, which I think is Brotherhood-ish).

Lucas Lefel wrote: I will send an email to London Records later today about this topic. Hoping that they will pick it up before release.

If they are due to be released on 29th September, then the CDs will have all been mastered, pressed, and artwork printed already...

Lucas Lefel wrote: Suzuki & -1, let me put some things out of the way for both of you:

According to the Claude Flowers book - Dreams Never End (New Order + Joy Division) from 1994 (Omnibus Press) which I own (it's a wonderful book), State Of The Nation was actually recorded in the Far East (Japan) during april 1985 when they had some left-over studio time. The song took about a week to finish and the engineers never slept according to Rob Gretton.

Anyway, Shame Of The Nation is actually recorded in early october 1985 and was the b-side on that 7 inch & 12 inch. Shellshock was also recorded in october 1985 with John Robie. Then, after that came Brotherhood and the Bizarre Love Triangle (7 inch & 12 inch) single in november 1986.

So, the song (State Of The Nation) is actually from the Low Life-period if you look at timeframes. that's why (just like Shellshock) it appears on the Low Life bonus disc I think. The strange thing about the song (State Of The Nation) was the fact that it indeed sounded very Brotherhood-ish and was included as the last track (only) on the CD. Like Suzuki said, even the artwork looks Brotherhood-ish (just like the Shellshock cover, which I think is Brotherhood-ish).

OK, I'll agree that it's origins are for sure between the two records. But I would even say that April '85 was months after Low-Life had been finalized (I don't have the book in front of me but I want to say the Low-Life sessions were in Autumn '84?). I could be wrong. My point is that the song has always been associated with the Brotherhood-era for me (and I would think others) due to a combination of factors: release date, sleeve art, and song style. Of course they can do what they want and if the band/management thinks that it belongs on Low-Life then they are the ultimate authority. It's not like they've ever bottled a rerelease before or anything.

Also, like Nick said if they are to be released by the end of Sept., I'm sure all of this whining by me is moot anyway. But that's a scheduled release date, and maybe things haven't been set in stone as yet. And as it seems that some of the opinions on this board do end up trickling through to at least some of the band or people who know people who know the band, then I though I'd just chuck some thoughts out there.

It also puts me in a great "I told you so" position when the finished product comes out and the general public starts moaning

Where's all the stuff from Hooky's archives?

Another undelivered promise...

It wouldn't at all surprise me to find out that the real rarities will be available to download at some point - maybe via iTunes, or maybe via the new New Order official site full of downloads?

These reissues are to a) Remaster the album, b) slot the readily-available b-sides/12" mixes on the second disc (remastered - although a remastered Substance would have catered for that), c) put New Order CD's back on the record shop shelves...

The collectors can then download (for a price) the rare tracks... At least that's what I'm hoping... :)

Nick King wrote:

The collectors can then download (for a price) the rare tracks... At least that's what I'm hoping... :)

Well that's what Hooky was considering to do in one of his recent interviews, but again you need people who would put up all that stuff.

Actually when you think of it, the band does need a guy like Gretton to properly deal with their output.

Since the real content is still more or less a mystery, although we know the shape the reissues will form, I can propose the following tracklistings. Enjoy :)

CD 1. Movement

CD 2. Singles

1. Ceremony (new)
2. In A Lonely Place
3. Procession.
4. Everything's Gone Green (12").
5. Cries & Whispers.
6. Mesh.
7. Temptation (12").
8. Hurt (12")
9. Ceremony (orig)
10. In A Lonely Place (orig?)

_______________ CD 1. PCL

CD 2. Singles

1. Blue Monday
2. Confusion (12")
3. Thieves Like Us (12").
4. Lonesome Tonight.
5. Murder.
6. The Beach.
7. Confusion (Rough Mix).
8. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental).

_______________ CD 1. Low-Life

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. The Perfect Kiss (12")
2. Sub-Culture (12")
3. Shellshock (12")
4. The State Of The Nation (12")
5. Sunrise (Instrumental).
6. Sub-Culture (Mirror mix).
7. Elegia (full version)
8. The Kiss of Death (12").
9. Dub-Vulture (12")
10. Shellcock (12")
11. Shame of the Nation (12")

_______________ CD 1. Brotherhood

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. BLT (12")
2. True Faith (12").
4. TBTOG (12").
5. Paradise (remix)
6. Evil Dust.
7. Let's Go (orig)
8. True Faith (12" dub remix).
9. TBTHG (film edit)

_______________ CD 1. Technique

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. Fine Time (12" remix)
2. Round & Round (12" remix)
3. Run 2 (12").
4. World In Motion
5. Don't Do It.
6. Best & Marsh (12").
7. MTO (12").
8. Vanishing Point (Instr).
9. The Happy One.
10. World in Motion B-Side

_______________ CD 1. Republic

CD 2. Singles

1. Regret (remix)
2. Ruined In A Day (remix)
3. World (remix)
4. Vicious Circle (12"). Let's Go '95? Nineteen63?

_______________ CD 1. Get Ready

CD 2. Rarities & Remixes

1. Brutal
2. Behind Closed Doors
3. Sabotage.
4. Here To Stay.
5. Player In The League.
6. Such A Good Thing.
7. Vietnam.
8. Crystal (remix)
9. 60 Miles An Hour (remix)
10. Someone Like You (Drezden 911 remix)
11. Here To Stay (extended remix). _______________

7. Salvation Theme
8. Sputnik.
9. Scullcrusher.

Am i the only one who thinks these are a bit shite and shouldn't be seeing the light of day again?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Nick King wrote:

The collectors can then download (for a price) the rare tracks... At least that's what I'm hoping... :)

Well that's what Hooky was considering to do in one of his recent interviews, but again you need people who would put up all that stuff.

Actually when you think of it, the band does need a guy like Gretton to properly deal with their output.

New Order were always quite socialist in their outlook weren't they?

What about a Barcelona FC set-up whereby the fans have a real input into what goes on, where someone with the knowledge and respect required would have some kind of input into what happens.

I know I'm living in some fucking dreamworld here, faced with the corporate realities of the Universal Music group, but why not?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Since the real content is still more or less a mystery, although we know the shape the reissues will form, I can propose the following tracklistings. Enjoy :)

CD 1. Movement

CD 2. Singles

1. Ceremony (new)
2. In A Lonely Place
3. Procession.
4. Everything's Gone Green (12").
5. Cries & Whispers.
6. Mesh.
7. Temptation (12").
8. Hurt (12")
9. Ceremony (orig)
10. In A Lonely Place (orig?)

_______________ CD 1. PCL

CD 2. Singles

1. Blue Monday
2. Confusion (12")
3. Thieves Like Us (12").
4. Lonesome Tonight.
5. Murder.
6. The Beach.
7. Confusion (Rough Mix).
8. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental).
9. Video 586 (edit) _______________ CD 1. Low-Life

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. The Perfect Kiss (12")
2. Sub-Culture (12")
3. Shellshock (12")
4. The State Of The Nation (12")
5. Sunrise (Instrumental).
6. Sub-Culture (Mirror mix).
7. Elegia (full version)
8. The Kiss of Death (12").
9. Dub-Vulture (12")
10. Shellcock (12").
11. Shame of the Nation (12")

_______________ CD 1. Brotherhood

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. BLT (12")
2. True Faith (12").
4. TBTOG (12").
5. Paradise (remix)
6. Evil Dust.
7. Salvation Theme
8. Sputnik.
9. Scullcrusher.
10. Let's Go (orig)
11. I Don't Care Dub
12. True Faith (12" dub remix).
13. TBTHO Dub (12")

_______________ CD 1. Technique

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. Fine Time (12" remix)
2. Round & Round (12" remix)
3. Run 2 (12").
4. World In Motion (remix)
5. Best & Marsh (12").
6. MTO (12").
7. Vanishing Point (Instr).
8. Happy One.
9. World in Motion B-Side
10. Ceremony (orig) _______________ CD 1. Republic

CD 2. Singles

1. Regret (remix)
2. Ruined In A Day (remix)
3. World (remix)
4. Vicious Circle (12"). _______________ CD 1. Get Ready

CD 2. Singles

1. Crystal (remix)
2. Behind Closed Doors
3. 60 Miles An Hour (remix)
4. Sabotage.
5. Someone Like You (12")
6. Here To Stay (full).
7. Player In The League.
8. Vietnam _______________

Why the fook put the original Ceremony on with Technique?

&,going back to the proposed remasters,why are Temptation'87 & Confusion'87 on Movement/P,C&L when they're already going to be on the Substance remaster? That would surely be a fookin' rip-off

More promos circulating:

eBay Special Editions

:\pimp3:

So, there it is then - no 5th Disc reprieve a la Retro!

Why the fuck is that awful Shep Pettibone True Faith mix seeing the light of day again, and not the sublime original?

I hope there's extensive sleeve notes, artwork, and press shots in the package. Is that too much to hope for?

I can't believe they've put State Of The Nation on the end of Brotherhood disc 1. And then put it on the Low-Life bonus disc as well?

I don't think they are as bad as they could have been, but a few random choices and glaring omissions make them somewhat disappointing. Surely there's space for the regular 12" mix of True Faith, and the full Shellshock 12", for example?

But I'll probably still buy them. Ah well.

Emile Strunz wrote: So, there it is then - no 5th Disc reprieve a la Retro!

Why the fuck is that awful Shep Pettibone True Faith mix seeing the light of day again, and not the sublime original?

I hope there's extensive sleeve notes, artwork, and press shots in the package. Is that too much to hope for?

More likely just a couple of NME, MOJO etc. magazine article reprints given the thought to the rest of the package.

depthcharge wrote: More promos circulating:

eBay Special Editions

:\pimp3:

Fooking hell at the sale price!

ha ha!!!

i put in a bid for that..... i could have gotten it for a much lower 'buy it now', but i had a feeling somebody would push the price up...

the jokes on them....

i'll just wait until it actually gets released...

besides, the promos get much cheaper the longer you wait..

i see the promos for 'retro' going pretty cheap (except the 5 disc versions)..

later -1

hey, -1, are you still using that TRS-80 with the 40 character rows?????

man, i remember you from the alt.music back in the mid-90s, and you are still typing the same way!

love ya.

Is there really going to be a Substance re-master? I assume not, since there is little point.

Where would /should they put the 1987 Confusion and Temptation remakes, and the original True Faith? I don't think the Pettibone remix of True Faith was "awful" (it was a HUGE dance floor hit at the time, and deserves to be included), but the original version should have a place.

Also, Touched by the Hand of God has two versions, a "rock" band version (on the soundtrack album), and a more "synth" dance version (on the 12"). Guess only one makes the cut.

Major Tarantino wrote:

7. Salvation Theme
8. Sputnik.
9. Skullcrusher.

Am i the only one who thinks these are a bit shite and shouldn't be seeing the light of day again?

They are kinda lame, I agree. Sound demo quality. Prolly best left for obscurity.

Cabaret Voltaire has two songs on the record that blow those away. Not that I've listened for years.

0_o wrote:

Cabaret Voltaire has two songs on the record that blow those away. Not that I've listened for years.

That's for sure

Where's The Happy One?

[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Where's The Happy One?

That' me

I'm glad that the Salvation tracks are not included in the project (which is a better job if you compare it to, let's say, Retro). I have the Salvation soundtrack and those instrumental New Order things. Touched By The Hand Of God was an early version in that soundtrack and is quite good, but the original synth version does a better job on those reissues.

Besides, if you buy the Salvation soundtrack, you also get some bonus tracks of Touched: a long version and a super long dub version which is cool in my ears. :)

I hope the remastered 1963 is the original one from Substance. The one from Singles leaves a lot to be desired for, and they re-recorded the way Barney sings the word "Nineteen-Sixty Three"! Blasphemy.

Ryan wrote: I hope the remastered 1963 is the original one from Substance. The one from Singles leaves a lot to be desired for, and they re-recorded the way Barney sings the word "Nineteen-Sixty Three"! Blasphemy.

It has to be, but then this lot (London Records) give the distinct impression that they couldn't give a shit, so who knows.

I guess I'm most looking forward to hearing PCL Disc 1, and Movement Disc 2 - those early synth numbers will hopefully sound brand fucking new.

Anyone know if these remasters are going to be released on vinyl as well a la the U2 remasters?

Kerry Harris wrote: Anyone know if these remasters are going to be released on vinyl as well a la the U2 remasters?

I'd be surprised if they were. The LPs are still relatively easy to track down second-hand, and it would be difficult to improve upon the sound of the originals. Plus - it is physically impossible to try and "remaster" a vinyl record by killing the dynamics and by brickwalling the levels. Thankfully.

The JD LPs had to be reissued since they were sought-after to the extent of being bootlegged (or rather, counterfeited).

Tarbox23 wrote: hey, -1, are you still using that TRS-80 with the 40 character rows?????

man, i remember you from the alt.music back in the mid-90s, and you are still typing the same way!

love ya.

hey matt(?),

whasup?

where ya been?

my how time flies..

i miss the ceremony mailing-list.. i think i got a digest a few years ago....

oh well...

life goes on, but apparently new order doesn't..

later -1

indiearchivist wrote:

Kerry Harris wrote: Anyone know if these remasters are going to be released on vinyl as well a la the U2 remasters?

I'd be surprised if they were. The LPs are still relatively easy to track down second-hand, and it would be difficult to improve upon the sound of the originals. Plus - it is physically impossible to try and "remaster" a vinyl record by killing the dynamics and by brickwalling the levels. Thankfully.

The JD LPs had to be reissued since they were sought-after to the extent of being bootlegged (or rather, counterfeited).

It's my understanding that a great deal of the time not much care and quality was put into the original pressings of a great deal of pop music. The idea was simply to "get the product out there" and records were just pressed out as quickly as possible at 100-120 grams. The vinyl remasters that are coming out for bands now are on better quality vinyl from 160-200 gram which gives truer fidelity.

As well, I quite like the idea of having a nice double album with one vinyl LP of the original and one vinyl LP of the "bonus" tracks with a gatefold cover. Dreaming probably, but would be nice.

It's my understanding that a great deal of the time not much care and quality was put into the original pressings of a great deal of pop music. The idea was simply to "get the product out there" and records were just pressed out as quickly as possible at 100-120 grams. The vinyl remasters that are coming out for bands now are on better quality vinyl from 160-200 gram which gives truer fidelity.

As well, I quite like the idea of having a nice double album with one vinyl LP of the original and one vinyl LP of the "bonus" tracks with a gatefold cover. Dreaming probably, but would be nice.

i've been following all the 'bjork' remasters on heavy vinyl, and there have been some 'kraftwerk' remasters also..

although they have a TON more fans than new order does.. but you never know.. 'underworld' has had some remasters, and they're not exactly huge..[and yes, i collect their stuff also]..

later -1

0_o wrote: Also, Touched by the Hand of God has two versions, a "rock" band version (on the soundtrack album), and a more "synth" dance version (on the 12"). Guess only one makes the cut.

Shellshock had an "original version" as well on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. John Robie produced the track, but then remixed it further for the 7" and 12" singles. Much like TBTHOG on Salvation, the Pretty in Pink version is more of the band's mix.

Shellshock had an "original version" as well on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. John Robie produced the track, but then remixed it further for the 7" and 12" singles. Much like TBTHOG on Salvation, the Pretty in Pink version is more of the band's mix.

Are you sure? I was under the impression it was just another edit of the 12" (which is probably itself heavily re-edited - "John Robie king of the tape edits...")

indiearchivist wrote:

Shellshock had an "original version" as well on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. John Robie produced the track, but then remixed it further for the 7" and 12" singles. Much like TBTHOG on Salvation, the Pretty in Pink version is more of the band's mix.

Are you sure? I was under the impression it was just another edit of the 12" (which is probably itself heavily re-edited - "John Robie king of the tape edits...")

If you listen to the 12" (known as the Extended Version), you can tell there are a lot of instrumental sections and choruses added to fill out the song as a more club orientated mix.

The 7" mix then has a lot of weird edits, with the intro being cut and one verse missing, plus there's a part where the chorus is cut together twice which sounds really off (at around 2:45 it repeats the line "give up the game till your heart stops beating"). Clearly, the 7" mix is an edit of the Extended Version.

However, if you listen to the Pretty in Pink version, it keeps the intro intact, has all the verses, plus it doesn't contain a lot those weird instrumental beats and repeat verses that the 12" uses to fill out the song. For the most part, it sounds like a straight forward mix of the song without any additional filler.

Perhaps someone can compare the Pretty in Pink version to a live version and see how closely they match.

Re-Member wrote:

indiearchivist wrote:

Shellshock had an "original version" as well on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. John Robie produced the track, but then remixed it further for the 7" and 12" singles. Much like TBTHOG on Salvation, the Pretty in Pink version is more of the band's mix.

Are you sure? I was under the impression it was just another edit of the 12" (which is probably itself heavily re-edited - "John Robie king of the tape edits...")

If you listen to the 12" (known as the Extended Version), you can tell there are a lot of instrumental sections and choruses added to fill out the song as a more club orientated mix.

The 7" mix then has a lot of weird edits, with the intro being cut and one verse missing, plus there's a part where the chorus is cut together twice which sounds really off (at around 2:45 it repeats the line "give up the game till your heart stops beating"). Clearly, the 7" mix is an edit of the Extended Version.

However, if you listen to the Pretty in Pink version, it keeps the intro intact, has all the verses, plus it doesn't contain a lot those weird instrumental beats and repeat verses that the 12" uses to fill out the song. For the most part, it sounds like a straight forward mix of the song without any additional filler.

Perhaps someone can compare the Pretty in Pink version to a live version and see how closely they match.

Not sure that I follow your reasoning... other than the "medium sized" version might be best edit, or the frist edit, which may be a valid opinion. It just sounds like the same recording session edited in longer versions, mid-length, and shorter versions. The long 12" does go on way too long IMO.

I think "Shellshock" was pretty much written hurriedly in the studio at the time of recording.

0_o wrote: Not sure that I follow your reasoning... other than the "medium sized" version might be best edit, or the frist edit, which may be a valid opinion. It just sounds like the same recording session edited in longer versions, mid-length, and shorter versions. The long 12" does go on way too long IMO.

I think "Shellshock" was pretty much written hurriedly in the studio at the time of recording.

I'm not saying that they are from a different recording session, but just that the soundtrack version was the first mix that the group settled on before considering it to be mixed further as single perhaps, much like TBTHOG, although Arthur Baker completely rebuilt the sequencer track for that one.

Now only if we can get an album version of BLT that doesn't fade out at the end. I'd be pretty happy with that.

According to the first post in this thread: I think there is still hope for the correct time listings.

Even Temptation (last track on bonus disc Movement) has no time listing yet although we all know it will be the 12" version.

So let's hope for Shellshock (9:43) and True Dub (10:41) for the real extended versions and no 'chopped-off 3 minutes plus' on each of them.

Re-Member wrote:

Now only if we can get an album version of BLT that doesn't fade out at the end. I'd be pretty happy with that.

When you say 'album version', do you mean the Brotherhood version (which doesn't have a fade-out, or at least mine doesn't) or the Substance version (which also doesn't have a fade-out)? In fact, what version of BLT does have a fade-out ending?

Luke wrote: According to the first post in this thread: I think there is still hope for the correct time listings.

Even Temptation (last track on bonus disc Movement) has no time listing yet although we all know it will be the 12" version.

So let's hope for Shellshock (9:43) and True Dub (10:41) for the real extended versions and no 'chopped-off 3 minutes plus' on each of them.

Well, the promo CDR's will tell us, but I believe it was determined that "True Dub" wasn't in fact the 1987 version, but a later mix (done by Tall Paul)?

So we should label it Fake Dub then?

Ryan wrote: So we should label it Fake Dub then?

True Fake? :p

Has anyone got the fluffy duffy silly billy bullshit remix of Temptation ?

x Juliette x wrote: Has anyone got the fluffy duffy silly billy bullshit remix of Temptation ?

Yeah, that was on the Rest Of!

CTB wrote:

Re-Member wrote:

Now only if we can get an album version of BLT that doesn't fade out at the end. I'd be pretty happy with that.

When you say 'album version', do you mean the Brotherhood version (which doesn't have a fade-out, or at least mine doesn't) or the Substance version (which also doesn't have a fade-out)? In fact, what version of BLT does have a fade-out ending?

Yeah, I'm talking about the album version that is on Brotherhood. Toward the end of the song, crank up the volume at the last two seconds end and you'll hear that there's this high pitched xylophone melody that fades out very quickly. On the re-recorded 94 version from the "best of", it's included at the end and goes on for about 20 seconds.

x Juliette x wrote: Has anyone got the fluffy duffy silly billy bullshit remix of Temptation ?

You mean this one?

Ryan wrote: So we should label it Fake Dub then?

True Fake? :p

True Fuck !!!

I hope they won't add a fucking 90's remix or so ... That would be totally out of place.

Re-Member wrote: Shellshock had an "original version" as well on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. John Robie produced the track, but then remixed it further for the 7" and 12" singles. Much like TBTHOG on Salvation, the Pretty in Pink version is more of the band's mix.

Hm, I never heard either of these songs (film versions of TBTHG & Shellshock), I always asumed there were regular versions. Now I'm curious about these mixes..

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Re-Member wrote: Shellshock had an "original version" as well on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack. John Robie produced the track, but then remixed it further for the 7" and 12" singles. Much like TBTHOG on Salvation, the Pretty in Pink version is more of the band's mix.

Hm, I never heard either of these songs (film versions of TBTHG & Shellshock), I always asumed there were regular versions. Now I'm curious about these mixes..

As am I.

you guys need to start doing your homework..

heck, why don't you use the feature on this site?

shellshock:

http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Song.aspx?SongID=46

touched by the hand of God:

http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Song.aspx?SongID=60

there are samples of the songs in windows media format..

anyways, as i posted earlier in this thread: http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=43134&PageIndex=2

excerpt of mixes listing

shellshock (ger 7") 4:19 v shellshock (single version) 4:19 v, cd, cs shellshock (best of) 4:26 v, cd, cs shellshock (dub version or shellcock) 7:35 v shellshock (edit) 4:19 v shellshock (extended version) 9:41 v shellshock (pretty in pink) 6:40 v, cd, cs shellshock (substance) 6:28 v, cd, cs

touched by the hand of dub (or touched by the hand of god(dub)) 5:30 v, cd touched by the hand of dub (7" edit) 4:11 v, cd touched by the hand of god 7:02 v, cd, touched by the hand of god (7" edit) 3:47 v, cd touched by the hand of god (arthur baker remix) 7:56 cd touched by the hand of god (best of) 3:47 v, cd, cs touched by the hand of god (biff & memphis remix) 9:59 v, cd, cs touched by the hand of god(live bbc1) 4:57 v, cd touched by the hand of god (live reading 98) 4:43 dvd touched by the hand of god(salvation) 4:59 v, cd, cs touched by the hand of god (touched by the hand of bias) 6:44 cd

for more information

go to : http://www.niagara.edu/neworder and go to singles ->

or http://www.worldinmotion.net

c'mon, don't make us do all the work for you !!!!!!!

later -1

Nick King wrote:

Ryan wrote: So we should label it Fake Dub then?

True Fake? :p

i have both of these:

true faith-94 (eschreamer dub) 7:47 v true faith-94 (eschreamer mix) 7:44 v

if one of these actually made it onto the cd, it would be the 2nd time that they were officially recognized..

the other one was on a 'cream' mix compilation cd....and it was an edit of the full mix.....

yeah, they aren't that great, but hey, they were very cool techno versions for their time..

i wouldn't hold my breath though..

the odds are pretty slim..

later -1

Well, the promo CDR's will tell us, but I believe it was determined that "True Dub" wasn't in fact the 1987 version, but a later mix (done by Tall Paul)?

well at least it's a rarity even if it is out of place.

Seems odd and definitely not logical to me that a nineties (dub) mix of True Faith (because the CD-single was re-released in a 94-version, also on (The Best Of) New Order) is gonna be included on a reissue/remaster of one of the 80's albums of New Order though ...

Hopefully it's still gonna be the True Dub from 1987 done by Shep Pettibone.

I wish it could be the grim up north mix from 94...minus the annoying backup singers, that to me was a proper remix.

Re-Member wrote:

However, if you listen to the Pretty in Pink version, it keeps the intro intact, has all the verses, plus it doesn't contain a lot those weird instrumental beats and repeat verses that the 12" uses to fill out the song. For the most part, it sounds like a straight forward mix of the song without any additional filler.

Perhaps someone can compare the Pretty in Pink version to a live version and see how closely they match.

Well, I can agree with that. There were probably multiple edits by Robie, and I can see him being instructed to cut a "less challenging" one for the soundtrack audience.

The live version is yet another different arrangement...

-1 wrote:

shellshock (single version) 4:19 v, cd, cs shellshock (best of) 4:26 v, cd, cs shellshock (edit) 4:19 v

I haven't found anything to suggest these are different. The German 7" is a different edit, though. This edit also appears on the Spanish 7" and probably a few others. However, the differences are hardly noticeable...

-1 wrote:

i have both of these:

true faith-94 (eschreamer dub) 7:47 v true faith-94 (eschreamer mix) 7:44 v

As far as I know, they are called "eschreamer dub" and "eschreamer dubbier".

I'm sure none of these were meant to appear on CD2 of "Brotherhood", it's just another mastering error - who knows if it'll be corrected in time for release...

This is what happens when you get don't those CD2 tracklistings right -

endless debates over what version of Shellshock to include!!?

I'm sure John Robie produced some good stuff back in the day, but Shellshock and Subculture ain't it.

I remember reading something saying that Shellshock sounded like East 17, and yeah, it does

-1 wrote:

shellshock (pretty in pink) 6:40 v, cd, cs

I have Pretty in Pink CD. Shellshock (PiP Version) is 6:04, not 6:40. http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/soundtracks/pip.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_in_Pink_(soundtrack)

:)

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

-1 wrote:

shellshock (pretty in pink) 6:40 v, cd, cs

I have Pretty in Pink CD. Shellshock (PiP Version) is 6:04, not 6:40. http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/soundtracks/pip.html

:)

hmm... i quoted an earlier version from there:

... CD: US 198? (A&M CD 3293) 6:40 Shellshock * ...

i guess things have changed in the last 6 years. i really need to update my list..

thanks, -1

Re-Member wrote:

CTB wrote:

Re-Member wrote:

Now only if we can get an album version of BLT that doesn't fade out at the end. I'd be pretty happy with that.

When you say 'album version', do you mean the Brotherhood version (which doesn't have a fade-out, or at least mine doesn't) or the Substance version (which also doesn't have a fade-out)? In fact, what version of BLT does have a fade-out ending?

Yeah, I'm talking about the album version that is on Brotherhood. Toward the end of the song, crank up the volume at the last two seconds end and you'll hear that there's this high pitched xylophone melody that fades out very quickly. On the re-recorded 94 version from the "best of", it's included at the end and goes on for about 20 seconds.

I don't think the '94 version is re-recorded, to my ears it's a slightly more polished mix of the "Married to the Mob" soundtrack version, which has that bell-like coda if memory serves. In any case, I can't see the remastering process altering the Brotherhood version's structure - they aren't remixing the songs, after all.

But I do agree that the 'Married to the Mob' mix of BLT would fit nicely on a bonus disc from Brotherhood...

CTB

CTB wrote:

But I do agree that the 'Married to the Mob' mix of BLT would fit nicely on a bonus disc from Brotherhood...

Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing that's relevant to include on a "Brotherhood" bonus disc. It sounds like the band were actually involved in the process, by adding bits to the song (aren't parts of the vocals re-recorded, for instance?). Not the "classic" Shep Pettibone 12" mix which has already been released a hundred times.

There must be more.....like "True Faith" with the band's original lyric, before Hague changed it to the more radio-friendly "they're afraid of what they see".

Is it any surprise that NO fucked this up? I mean really, after best of, rest of, international, retro, etc you think we would all learn to keep our expectations low....

http://www.joydiv.org/forth.htm

"Movement - The early Singles and b-sides. Both versions of Ceremony, the original Temptation 7" and 12", Everything's Gone Green 12" and rarity Cries and Whispers"

They STILL haven't stopped fucking up between Mesh and Cries And Whispers!

not great but not that bad i suppose,some things i only have on tape,i'll still buy them seeing as i've bought everything else they've ever done,why stop now