-1, I don't like to be given names by you because you think you know how things work.

Let me first say that I am VERY HAPPY that those New Order remasters/reissues are finally going to appear in Collectors Editions AND that I'm VERY HAPPY that most of my favourite tracks are all on them in the version that I like. So that's finally out.

I understand now that you don't want to turn this in a Blancmange post because you're wrong on that one: it's a full tracklist of everything that was released in those 3 album-periods, point.

And THAT was what I meant when I talked about U2, Thompson Twins & Blancmange: every track was released and MOST of them in their complete official remixed form also. So: who's complaining with that 'they've left of a ton of stuff'?! One thing about the Thompson Twins - Here's To Future Days Deluxe Edition: That track Don't Mess With Doctor Dream you were talking about what appears to be missing isn't the case here at all: Shoot Out (the first track after the albumtracks) is that remix that you think is missing. (on the official 12 inch) It's called the ([U4A]+[U3A]=Remix) done by Tom Bailey and engineered by Jay Mark. The only fact is that it was indeed released as a separate 12 inch at the time (september 1985). So because of the missing name [U4A]+[U3A], it looked like it wasn't on the Deluxe Edition, but it is.

If you want to protect the record companies by saying what you do, that's fine with me, but with people like you there will never be speciality in reissues. It's like thirteen in a dozen for me. Being afraid to stand for something is always a bad thing, regardless of WHERE you work, that's my impression in life. Besides: I am very happy with my jobs (in the past, present AND future).

Have a nice day

kel wrote: Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising

Is there a transcript anywhere, or can you provide some scans?

Ryan wrote:

kel wrote: Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising

Is there a transcript anywhere, or can you provide some scans?

I can but it'll have to be tomorrow

Lucas Lefel wrote: -1, I don't like to be given names by you because you think you know how things work.

sorry about that, you just came out very hostile, and so did i..

Let me first say that I am VERY HAPPY that those New Order remasters/reissues are finally going to appear in Collector's Editions AND that I'm VERY HAPPY that most of my favourite tracks are all on them in the version that I like. So that's finally out.

good, i am too...you just didn't sound very happy..

I understand now that you don't want to turn this in a Blancmange post because you're wrong on that one: it's a full tracklist of everything that was released in those 3 album-periods, point.

oh no its not, what about the irene and mavis EP, what about the other us remixes, such as 6min edit of 'lose your love', what about the US remixes for 'don't tell me', etc, etc, etc..

And THAT was what I meant when I talked about U2, Thompson Twins & Blancmange: every track was released and MOST of them in their complete official remixed form also. So: who's complaining with that 'they've left of a ton of stuff'?!

and don't you think new order is including most of their tracks?

One thing about the Thompson Twins - Here's To Future Days Deluxe Edition: That track Don't Mess With Doctor Dream you were talking about what appears to be missing isn't the case here at all: Shoot Out (the first track after the albumtracks) is that remix that you think is missing. (on the official 12 inch) It's called the ([U4A]+[U3A]=Remix) done by Tom Bailey and engineered by Jay Mark. The only fact is that it was indeed released as a separate 12 inch at the time (september 1985). So because of the missing name [U4A]+[U3A], it looked like it wasn't on the Deluxe Edition, but it is.

sorry, don't want to turn this into a TT thread either: i don't have my vinyl with me, but from all the sources, (and i really should go back and check)... why is 'shoot out' only 6:23, and the u4au3a mix 6:38? every source i've checked (discogs, virtual discography, etc...) seems to say otherwise.. http://www.discogs.com/release/578224

i know other sources (notably wikipedia)...say its the same... but its still confusing..check out discogs again http://www.discogs.com/release/918013

If you want to protect the record companies by saying what you do, that's fine with me, but with people like you there will never be speciality in reissues. It's like thirteen in a dozen for me. Being afraid to stand for something is always a bad thing, regardless of WHERE you work, that's my impression in life. Besides: I am very happy with my jobs (in the past, present AND future).

Have a nice day

hey, i like my job too, but its coming to an end, (not something i can control)..... sometime lifes like that... but you move on, and fight other battles, and hopefully you can win them next time..

later -1

kel wrote:

Ryan wrote:

kel wrote: Steve interview in this weeks NME makes things sound very promising

Is there a transcript anywhere, or can you provide some scans?

I can but it'll have to be tomorrow

Cheers!

bc2323 wrote:

Low-Life

4. State Of The Nation (06.33)

-1 (or Minus One, because I think you lose again on your points), I have one last thing about the Thompson Twins: the 6:38 remix of Don't Mess With Doctor Dream which we both talk about IS the 6:23 version on the Deluxe Edition (which is called Shoot Out on the EP/bonus 12" which was given with the album back in 1985. Those two are the same (even the engineer and the remixer is the same). There was never a 6:38 version. That time was wrongly spelled on the vinyl 12 inch single. I am familiar with the Discogs-site and I use that one a lot, but according to my vinyl collection these two are the same. So that's Minus One ... :p

Finally, about Blancmange: you missed my point in the fact that I meant that all titles (every song that's been released by the duo) is present on those upcoming 3 reissues/remasters. I didn't meant remixes. So that's Minus Two. :p

Really, I hope I helped you out of this.

I like to say that indeed I am happy that New Order is including most of it's tracks on the upcoming Collectors Editions. So, at least, we go equal on that one.

Again, have a nice day

Lucas Lefel wrote: -1 (or Minus One, because I think you lose again on your points),

Finally, about Blancmange: you missed my point in the fact that I meant that all titles (every song that's been released by the duo) is present on those upcoming 3 reissues/remasters. I didn't meant remixes. So that's Minus Two. :p

OFFTOPIC:

what good is it to have the single versions, when we've been asking for the remixes for decades?

how long do you think i've been waiting for that 10 minute remix of 'lose your love'? oh well, i guess no else is getting it either...i'll stick to my vinyl remasters..

later -1

My resolve not to buy these remasters is weakening by the day. It's like I have a little gremlin whispering in my ear: "Go on, buy them. New Order albums remastered, buy them! At least get Power Corruption & Lies, Low Life and Brotherhood. All remastered!" Yes, that's it - a little gremlin. Probably employed by London Records.

Really, I've been as critical as anybody of these releases as they've failed to follow the pattern of most/all "collectors edition" releases of other albums by other bands insofar as there's no unreleased material being unearthed, but this being New Order we shouldn't be too surprised. And if they want to use this opportunity to release a comprehensive (albeit not all-inclusive) career retrospective of the Factory years then these discs aren't too far off the mark.

I think other than the somewhat puzzling running order on the Movement and Brotherhood discs, the only real question marks for me are:

1)why the shortened Shellshock instead of the full 12" which--if it remains the truncated version-- remains to me the most glaring omission of their CD catalog? Especially if they are releasing the full Perfect Kiss on the same disc. They obviously went back to find 45 seconds there so why not the missing minutes (and the included verse) from Shellshock?

2)If you're going to include Salvation Theme and Let's Go, then why not Skullcrusher (especially) and Sputnik? There's room on the disc.

3. Why can't we just get an official version of The HAppy One. We know it's out there. And you know that we know that you know where it is.

Oh, and why is State of the Nation on the Low-Life when it was originally on the Brotherhood CD?

Those 2 me are the glaring issues with an otherwise pretty complete yet listenable introduction (by this I mean that to include all the remixes would perhaps overwhelm the casual fan or maybe more importantly to the band the MOJO reviewer who would have to sit through them all just to try to get to some new bits) to the New Order catalog.

Now those are just what I think are almost mandatory changes which should be made before these things come out, but me being me I've also got a couple of suggestions that I think would make the whole project better/more complete without completely overwhelming the neophyte with remixes galore yet would give a nod to the completeist in me.

Movement bonus: other than the running order, looks pretty good. definitely move the '87 Temptation to the end of the disc as it would sound out of context in the middle of the early stuff.

PC&L: add Confusion '87 to the end of the disc and if you really wanted to be cool, put the xmas flexi tracks on the end as unlisted bonus tracks.

Low-life bonus: shift SOTN to Brotherhood. Add Kiss of Death (7") and Perfect Pit (as well as Skullcrusher and Sputnik). Maybe use the 7" Dub-vulture and put shellcock on as well. Record Mirror Sub-culture as unlisted bonus track would be cheeky.

Brotherhood bonus: add Shame of the Nation (7"?) and Touched By the Hand of Dub.

Technique bonus: definitley add The Happy One and one of the Round & Round remixes (the Detroit Mix I think was pretty good?). Sister Ray from "Like a Girl..." again unlisted would be cool.

Anyway, that's what I think.

London Records lick balls. Fucking pricks.

Suzuki, I think you made a very good point. Especially the point that I made earlier about Shellshock: we are missing 3 minutes plus. I think most peolpe really don't have an idea about the full version since it was only on vinyl back in 1986. Maybe most New Order fans don't even know it was always the shortened/edited version that appeared on CD compilations. I thought it was because of disc time problems or so (because that Low Life bonus disc looks full with that tracklisting) but according to your information it is possible to include the full version of (at least) Shellshock. I also hope that it's going to be fixed. I will send an email to London Records later today about this topic. Hoping that they will pick it up before release.

[Offtopic] -1, I think you are absolutely right on the Blancmange topic: Lose Your Love isn't presented on those reissues/remasters in it's full glory and that's somehow a bit irritating (after all those years of waiting and hoping for it on a CD). The Irene & Mavis EP was a career start for the duo and it was released before they had signed to London Records.

Let's hope it will appear somehow, somewhere...

Suzuki wrote: Oh, and why is State of the Nation on the Low-Life when it was originally on the Brotherhood CD?

Brotherhood bonus: add Shame of the Nation (7"?) and Touched By the Hand of Dub.

Anyway, that's what I think.

well you can think what you like, that doesn't change the facts:

title release date

The Perfect Kiss May 1985 Lowlife (LP) May 1985 Sub-Culture Oct 1985 Shellshock Mar 1986 State of the Nation Aug 1986

Brotherhood (LP) Oct 1986 Bizarre Love Triangle Nov 1986 etc..

since they were released before 'brotherhood' actually came out... it makes more sense to include it with lowlife...

'touched by the hand of dub' is already on cd.... what you really want is this:

touched by the hand of god (arthur baker remix) 7:56 cd

which is only on these releases:

CD: GE 1988 (Interphon IPCD 2022-36) *** CD: JP 1988 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor VDP-1345) *** CD: JP 1992 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor-JVC VICP-23032) ***

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/soundtracks/salvation.html

this version blows away the original remix ....it is way more intense, and much cooler...

later -1

-1 wrote:

well you can think what you like, that doesn't change the facts:

title release date

The Perfect Kiss May 1985 Lowlife (LP) May 1985 Sub-Culture Oct 1985 Shellshock Mar 1986 State of the Nation Aug 1986

Brotherhood (LP) Oct 1986 Bizarre Love Triangle Nov 1986 etc..

since they were released before 'brotherhood' actually came out... it makes more sence to include it with lowlife...

Those "facts" actually mean nothing here.

Actually it doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you are in tune with the chronology of the band as an artistic entity as opposed to a list of release dates and catalog numbers. It was included on the original CD of Brotherhood. It and " As it is when it was" were 2 new songs honed to a final product during the Low-life tour, and I don't suppose we should take the latter song and stick it on Low-life bonus disc? If you look at the sleeves, it is much more in line thematically with the BLT 12" and Brotherhood sleeve than anything during the Low-life era. In fact there's an Australian poster promoting the SOTN single, BLT single and Brotherhood LP all together while listing the back catalog down in the corner (which includes Low-Life), so I think it was considered a current release when Brotherhood was out. Also, by your logic Blue Monday would be on Movement since it came out a couple of months before PC&L. I think it would probably be easier to argue that Shellshock belongs on Brotherhood than to in any way try to wedge State of the Nation onto Low-life.

And actually what I meant on the TBTHODub was to put (7") after it so as to cut down on the time of remixes on the discs. That was my mistake.

Suzuki & -1, let me put some things out of the way for both of you:

According to the Claude Flowers book - Dreams Never End (New Order + Joy Division) from 1994 (Omnibus Press) which I own (it's a wonderful book), State Of The Nation was actually recorded in the Far East (Japan) during april 1985 when they had some left-over studio time. The song took about a week to finish and the engineers never slept according to Rob Gretton.

Anyway, Shame Of The Nation is actually recorded in early october 1985 and was the b-side on that 7 inch & 12 inch. Shellshock was also recorded in october 1985 with John Robie. Then, after that came Brotherhood and the Bizarre Love Triangle (7 inch & 12 inch) single in november 1986.

So, the song (State Of The Nation) is actually from the Low Life-period if you look at timeframes. that's why (just like Shellshock) it appears on the Low Life bonus disc I think. The strange thing about the song (State Of The Nation) was the fact that it indeed sounded very Brotherhood-ish and was included as the last track (only) on the CD. Like Suzuki said, even the artwork looks Brotherhood-ish (just like the Shellshock cover, which I think is Brotherhood-ish).

Lucas Lefel wrote: I will send an email to London Records later today about this topic. Hoping that they will pick it up before release.

If they are due to be released on 29th September, then the CDs will have all been mastered, pressed, and artwork printed already...

Lucas Lefel wrote: Suzuki & -1, let me put some things out of the way for both of you:

According to the Claude Flowers book - Dreams Never End (New Order + Joy Division) from 1994 (Omnibus Press) which I own (it's a wonderful book), State Of The Nation was actually recorded in the Far East (Japan) during april 1985 when they had some left-over studio time. The song took about a week to finish and the engineers never slept according to Rob Gretton.

Anyway, Shame Of The Nation is actually recorded in early october 1985 and was the b-side on that 7 inch & 12 inch. Shellshock was also recorded in october 1985 with John Robie. Then, after that came Brotherhood and the Bizarre Love Triangle (7 inch & 12 inch) single in november 1986.

So, the song (State Of The Nation) is actually from the Low Life-period if you look at timeframes. that's why (just like Shellshock) it appears on the Low Life bonus disc I think. The strange thing about the song (State Of The Nation) was the fact that it indeed sounded very Brotherhood-ish and was included as the last track (only) on the CD. Like Suzuki said, even the artwork looks Brotherhood-ish (just like the Shellshock cover, which I think is Brotherhood-ish).

OK, I'll agree that it's origins are for sure between the two records. But I would even say that April '85 was months after Low-Life had been finalized (I don't have the book in front of me but I want to say the Low-Life sessions were in Autumn '84?). I could be wrong. My point is that the song has always been associated with the Brotherhood-era for me (and I would think others) due to a combination of factors: release date, sleeve art, and song style. Of course they can do what they want and if the band/management thinks that it belongs on Low-Life then they are the ultimate authority. It's not like they've ever bottled a rerelease before or anything.

Also, like Nick said if they are to be released by the end of Sept., I'm sure all of this whining by me is moot anyway. But that's a scheduled release date, and maybe things haven't been set in stone as yet. And as it seems that some of the opinions on this board do end up trickling through to at least some of the band or people who know people who know the band, then I though I'd just chuck some thoughts out there.

It also puts me in a great "I told you so" position when the finished product comes out and the general public starts moaning

Where's all the stuff from Hooky's archives?

Another undelivered promise...

It wouldn't at all surprise me to find out that the real rarities will be available to download at some point - maybe via iTunes, or maybe via the new New Order official site full of downloads?

These reissues are to a) Remaster the album, b) slot the readily-available b-sides/12" mixes on the second disc (remastered - although a remastered Substance would have catered for that), c) put New Order CD's back on the record shop shelves...

The collectors can then download (for a price) the rare tracks... At least that's what I'm hoping... :)

Nick King wrote:

The collectors can then download (for a price) the rare tracks... At least that's what I'm hoping... :)

Well that's what Hooky was considering to do in one of his recent interviews, but again you need people who would put up all that stuff.

Actually when you think of it, the band does need a guy like Gretton to properly deal with their output.

Since the real content is still more or less a mystery, although we know the shape the reissues will form, I can propose the following tracklistings. Enjoy :)

CD 1. Movement

CD 2. Singles

1. Ceremony (new)
2. In A Lonely Place
3. Procession.
4. Everything's Gone Green (12").
5. Cries & Whispers.
6. Mesh.
7. Temptation (12").
8. Hurt (12")
9. Ceremony (orig)
10. In A Lonely Place (orig?)

_______________ CD 1. PCL

CD 2. Singles

1. Blue Monday
2. Confusion (12")
3. Thieves Like Us (12").
4. Lonesome Tonight.
5. Murder.
6. The Beach.
7. Confusion (Rough Mix).
8. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental).

_______________ CD 1. Low-Life

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. The Perfect Kiss (12")
2. Sub-Culture (12")
3. Shellshock (12")
4. The State Of The Nation (12")
5. Sunrise (Instrumental).
6. Sub-Culture (Mirror mix).
7. Elegia (full version)
8. The Kiss of Death (12").
9. Dub-Vulture (12")
10. Shellcock (12")
11. Shame of the Nation (12")

_______________ CD 1. Brotherhood

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. BLT (12")
2. True Faith (12").
4. TBTOG (12").
5. Paradise (remix)
6. Evil Dust.
7. Let's Go (orig)
8. True Faith (12" dub remix).
9. TBTHG (film edit)

_______________ CD 1. Technique

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. Fine Time (12" remix)
2. Round & Round (12" remix)
3. Run 2 (12").
4. World In Motion
5. Don't Do It.
6. Best & Marsh (12").
7. MTO (12").
8. Vanishing Point (Instr).
9. The Happy One.
10. World in Motion B-Side

_______________ CD 1. Republic

CD 2. Singles

1. Regret (remix)
2. Ruined In A Day (remix)
3. World (remix)
4. Vicious Circle (12"). Let's Go '95? Nineteen63?

_______________ CD 1. Get Ready

CD 2. Rarities & Remixes

1. Brutal
2. Behind Closed Doors
3. Sabotage.
4. Here To Stay.
5. Player In The League.
6. Such A Good Thing.
7. Vietnam.
8. Crystal (remix)
9. 60 Miles An Hour (remix)
10. Someone Like You (Drezden 911 remix)
11. Here To Stay (extended remix). _______________

7. Salvation Theme
8. Sputnik.
9. Scullcrusher.

Am i the only one who thinks these are a bit shite and shouldn't be seeing the light of day again?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Nick King wrote:

The collectors can then download (for a price) the rare tracks... At least that's what I'm hoping... :)

Well that's what Hooky was considering to do in one of his recent interviews, but again you need people who would put up all that stuff.

Actually when you think of it, the band does need a guy like Gretton to properly deal with their output.

New Order were always quite socialist in their outlook weren't they?

What about a Barcelona FC set-up whereby the fans have a real input into what goes on, where someone with the knowledge and respect required would have some kind of input into what happens.

I know I'm living in some fucking dreamworld here, faced with the corporate realities of the Universal Music group, but why not?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Since the real content is still more or less a mystery, although we know the shape the reissues will form, I can propose the following tracklistings. Enjoy :)

CD 1. Movement

CD 2. Singles

1. Ceremony (new)
2. In A Lonely Place
3. Procession.
4. Everything's Gone Green (12").
5. Cries & Whispers.
6. Mesh.
7. Temptation (12").
8. Hurt (12")
9. Ceremony (orig)
10. In A Lonely Place (orig?)

_______________ CD 1. PCL

CD 2. Singles

1. Blue Monday
2. Confusion (12")
3. Thieves Like Us (12").
4. Lonesome Tonight.
5. Murder.
6. The Beach.
7. Confusion (Rough Mix).
8. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental).
9. Video 586 (edit) _______________ CD 1. Low-Life

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. The Perfect Kiss (12")
2. Sub-Culture (12")
3. Shellshock (12")
4. The State Of The Nation (12")
5. Sunrise (Instrumental).
6. Sub-Culture (Mirror mix).
7. Elegia (full version)
8. The Kiss of Death (12").
9. Dub-Vulture (12")
10. Shellcock (12").
11. Shame of the Nation (12")

_______________ CD 1. Brotherhood

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. BLT (12")
2. True Faith (12").
4. TBTOG (12").
5. Paradise (remix)
6. Evil Dust.
7. Salvation Theme
8. Sputnik.
9. Scullcrusher.
10. Let's Go (orig)
11. I Don't Care Dub
12. True Faith (12" dub remix).
13. TBTHO Dub (12")

_______________ CD 1. Technique

CD 2. Singles & Rarities

1. Fine Time (12" remix)
2. Round & Round (12" remix)
3. Run 2 (12").
4. World In Motion (remix)
5. Best & Marsh (12").
6. MTO (12").
7. Vanishing Point (Instr).
8. Happy One.
9. World in Motion B-Side
10. Ceremony (orig) _______________ CD 1. Republic

CD 2. Singles

1. Regret (remix)
2. Ruined In A Day (remix)
3. World (remix)
4. Vicious Circle (12"). _______________ CD 1. Get Ready

CD 2. Singles

1. Crystal (remix)
2. Behind Closed Doors
3. 60 Miles An Hour (remix)
4. Sabotage.
5. Someone Like You (12")
6. Here To Stay (full).
7. Player In The League.
8. Vietnam _______________

Why the fook put the original Ceremony on with Technique?

&,going back to the proposed remasters,why are Temptation'87 & Confusion'87 on Movement/P,C&L when they're already going to be on the Substance remaster? That would surely be a fookin' rip-off

More promos circulating:

eBay Special Editions

:\pimp3:

So, there it is then - no 5th Disc reprieve a la Retro!

Why the fuck is that awful Shep Pettibone True Faith mix seeing the light of day again, and not the sublime original?

I hope there's extensive sleeve notes, artwork, and press shots in the package. Is that too much to hope for?

I can't believe they've put State Of The Nation on the end of Brotherhood disc 1. And then put it on the Low-Life bonus disc as well?

I don't think they are as bad as they could have been, but a few random choices and glaring omissions make them somewhat disappointing. Surely there's space for the regular 12" mix of True Faith, and the full Shellshock 12", for example?

But I'll probably still buy them. Ah well.

Emile Strunz wrote: So, there it is then - no 5th Disc reprieve a la Retro!

Why the fuck is that awful Shep Pettibone True Faith mix seeing the light of day again, and not the sublime original?

I hope there's extensive sleeve notes, artwork, and press shots in the package. Is that too much to hope for?

More likely just a couple of NME, MOJO etc. magazine article reprints given the thought to the rest of the package.

depthcharge wrote: More promos circulating:

eBay Special Editions

:\pimp3:

Fooking hell at the sale price!

ha ha!!!

i put in a bid for that..... i could have gotten it for a much lower 'buy it now', but i had a feeling somebody would push the price up...

the jokes on them....

i'll just wait until it actually gets released...

besides, the promos get much cheaper the longer you wait..

i see the promos for 'retro' going pretty cheap (except the 5 disc versions)..

later -1