I don't like 1963 (Original Version)

Arthur Baker's remix in 1995 made the song a lot better, but the 87 version is among one of the worst things NO has ever done.....Awkward lyrics (Barney singing about another guy taking advantage of him), virtually no Peter Hook, and the music sounds like it should be in a commercial for a cereal with strawberries.......Damn that Stephen Hague!

J

Both versions have the lyrics, and they are about Marilyn Monroe getting offed by John Kennedy or some such nonsense, with a ghost and maybe Bobby Kennedy getting sloppy seconds. Bernard claims this... Yes, it is even stupider than the gay idea of his "gun"(penis) pointed at him interpretation. This song will forever be the most confusing New Order track.

The Hague version is more syrupy. Not sure why Bernard loved Hague so much, maybe because Bernard wanted to be pop like The Pet Shop Boys.

And don't be so partisan... hate this and that and whatever. Chill. You can discuss without all the me me me stuff.

0_o wrote: And don't be so partisan... hate this and that and whatever. Chill. You can discuss without all the me me me stuff.

I believe I was not talking about "me". I was talking about 1963 and my dislike for Stephan Hague. When did I even say the word "hate"?

And yes the lyrics are the same in both versions but at least Arthur Baker made improvements to the music.

J

1963 is one of their best songs ever. brilliant in every way, especially the bizarre keyboard chords.

lyrics are straight out of the freudian godhead.

so sorry we hardcore fans like it and upset your little Confusioned Blade fan mind....

I started a thread a while ago saying how much I love the original version. I still do, and it desperately needs to be remastered.

It's so full of emotion, particularly the ending. The Arthur Baker version takes away from the sense of desperation in it, to my ears.

Ryan wrote: I started a thread a while ago saying how much I love the original version. I still do, and it desperately needs to be remastered.

It's so full of emotion, particularly the ending. The Arthur Baker version takes away from the sense of desperation in it, to my ears.

I would agree that the original builds up the emotion in the end really well, and that ultimately makes the song work. Maybe Baker cleaned it up to much, maybe it was better with the overdone synths and the bombastic ending? Or maybe Hooky was put too low in the mix?

I which Bakers version had the swirling keyboards and high bass outro, then it would the bollocks.

No Holiday wrote: Arthur Baker's remix in 1995 made the song a lot better, but the 87 version is among one of the worst things NO has ever done.....Awkward lyrics (Barney singing about another guy taking advantage of him), virtually no Peter Hook, and the music sounds like it should be in a commercial for a cereal with strawberries.......Damn that Stephen Hague!

J

What a fucking retarded thread.

Always preferred 1963 to True Faith. I think the original is still the best version, although it may need a bit more bass, and the outro is fantastic.

I like the original Hague-version the most. For me it's equally good to it's Hague a-side True Faith. However I like the 95-Baker-version in it's guitar extension (it was a good revisitation of the song), I always come back to the original. I think it's one of their best songs, at least the best b-side out there (later a-side).

The song's full of emotion which I like, it's typical New Order.

The lyrics are the same in both versions...I won't criticise you for disliking the song, but I personally preferred the original version over the Arthur Baker remix.

To me the original doesn't have nearly enough low end in the mix....It sounds dated as hell (very 1987), kind of sounds like a Bad Depeche Mode song to me. I don't know.. I respect everyone's opinion too, but I don't think that the original 1963 will stand the test of time. It sounds too stuck in the UK bubblegum pop of the mid-late 80s.

Which leads me to add that I wish NO would have worked with Arthur Baker more. Confusion is a classic and IMO he saved 1963. In Baker's 1963 there's a lot stronger atmosphere, it doesn't nearly sound as flat. The sonic element of the remix is far and beyond a substantial improvement over the original. Plus, as much as I don't want to say this, the original 1963 just sounds kind of fruity to me. 80s Fruity! The best kind!

True Faith is good though.

J

I quite like the Arthur Baker 1995 version of 1963 but I prefer the original. by a smidge. They are both very good though, and its a great song period.

I love True Faith, I think its probably New Order's best song. True Faith is, as one critic put it:

"New Order's best combination of head and heart".

I agree. I love the big, uplifting anthemic quality of the song, and its a great dance track as well as a beautifully written song. This, combined with with the quite sad lyrics about the optimism of youth being blotted out by drug addiction (in my opinion Bernard Sumner's best set of lyrics) make for a powerful song and I never tire of hearing it.

You know that True Faith and 1963 are brilliant simply as songs, because you can perform them in about any arrangement and style and they still sound great. Its all there in the melodies.

The original version of 1963 is brilliant.

As for your explanation of the lyrics I think you need to read the explanation written by Bernard himself in the New Order sheet music book.

Major Tarantino wrote: The original version of 1963 is brilliant.

As for your explanation of the lyrics I think you need to read the explanation written by Bernard himself in the New Order sheet music book.

I do not know if you were referring to what I said or not.....but I know that bernard wrote down what 1963 is about for the New Irder sheet music book. JFK and all that.

My explanation of lyrics was actually referring to the lyrics of True Faith, which is, in Barney's own words, about smack addiction.

Musically, it's a classic.

The lyrics put me off for a bit, it sounds like a failed attempt at a techno ballad. They were trying new things at the time, I suppose.

Now I sort of filter the lyrics out and enjoy the tune.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Major Tarantino wrote: The original version of 1963 is brilliant.

As for your explanation of the lyrics I think you need to read the explanation written by Bernard himself in the New Order sheet music book.

I do not know if you were referring to what I said or not.....but I know that bernard wrote down what 1963 is about for the New Irder sheet music book. JFK and all that.

My explanation of lyrics was actually referring to the lyrics of True Faith, which is, in Barney's own words, about smack addiction.

Sorry, I was referring to No Holiday's comment:

"Awkward lyrics (Barney singing about another guy taking advantage of him)"

Hey Major Tarantino, you're a Major Jackoff.

The Baker version is great, but I must say that I prefer the original over it. To say it's one of their worst songs like it's a matter of fact is a bit harsh. I'm sure a poll here can prove otherwise.

I've always had a soft spot for this song due to how emotional Barney sings it. When you realize what he is actually singing about, it makes it somewhat comical, yet he continues singing straightforward for more heart and conviction than anything off of Get Ready or WFTSC can conjure.

You know i'm sure that the real Joy Division loyalists really dig the tune. What would Ian think!

J

No Holiday wrote: What would Ian think!

Ian would think "what a bunch of fags! I'm glad I offed myself!"

Is that what you think Ian would think?

I don't like Round and Round '94

I don't like Mondays...

michael preda wrote: I don't like Round and Round '94

I do. But then I like all versions of Round and Round. Best chorus in any NO song, I believe.

I don't mind either version of 1963, but for me its one of those songs you have to be in the mood for.

El Jarvo wrote:

Ally wrote: He would have called them cocksuckers.

It's my word of the month thanks to the Deadwood season 1 DVD boxset.

Cocksuckers there, I've said it again.

I call someone it at work next week.

I think I can see where you're coming from!

You cocksucker.

Best said in Mr Wu's accent though. So that you can be both racist and insulting. Two birds for the price of one!

Totally off topic, but has anyone done a cocksucker word count on that show? Which is fucking brilliant TV btw

No Holiday wrote: To me the original doesn't have nearly enough low end in the mix....It sounds dated as hell (very 1987), kind of sounds like a Bad Depeche Mode song to me. I don't know.. I respect everyone's opinion too, but I don't think that the original 1963 will stand the test of time. It sounds too stuck in the UK bubblegum pop of the mid-late 80s.

Which leads me to add that I wish NO would have worked with Arthur Baker more. Confusion is a classic and IMO he saved 1963. In Baker's 1963 there's a lot stronger atmosphere, it doesn't nearly sound as flat. The sonic element of the remix is far and beyond a substantial improvement over the original. Plus, as much as I don't want to say this, the original 1963 just sounds kind of fruity to me. 80s Fruity! The best kind!

True Faith is good though.

J

New Order, even including it's more dancier songs, wouldn't be considered bubblegum pop, and as much as I also listen to Depeche Mode, they sound nothing like DM.

But hey, whatever.

The Joe T Vanelli mix is good - bit Italian disco but better than the orginal. Still like the Arthur Baker mix the best because it has Hookey's killer baseline that is missing from the original (curse that Stephen Hague)

Major Tarantino wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Major Tarantino wrote: The original version of 1963 is brilliant.

As for your explanation of the lyrics I think you need to read the explanation written by Bernard himself in the New Order sheet music book.

I do not know if you were referring to what I said or not.....but I know that bernard wrote down what 1963 is about for the New Irder sheet music book. JFK and all that.

My explanation of lyrics was actually referring to the lyrics of True Faith, which is, in Barney's own words, about smack addiction.

Sorry, I was referring to No Holiday's comment:

"Awkward lyrics (Barney singing about another guy taking advantage of him)"

Ah, alright. I thought as much. My apologies, Major.

I never thought that the lyrics were about a guy taking advantage of Barney....when I first heard the song, before I knew about the JFK inspiration, I actually thought Barney writing and singing from the point of view of a woman...

As a few other folks have remarked on this thread...

I love the way Barney sings on 1963...it is indeed very emotional and very sincere. The very first time I heard the song, I cracked up laughing when I heard Barney sing "Johnny, don't point that gun at me"....because its so absurd in that way Barney has...

But when he sings "There's so many ways that our lives have changed, but please, I beg, don't do this to me".....I find those lyrics to be good...and Barney's delivery of them is surprisingly effective.

I dont like No Holiday (original twat version).

I concur, the original sounds too flat and long. Baker's version (which has 2 edits) is more compact and with a more profound sound. I just never listen to the 1987 version anymore.

Jesu wrote:

No Holiday wrote: Arthur Baker's remix in 1995 made the song a lot better, but the 87 version is among one of the worst things NO has ever done.....Awkward lyrics (Barney singing about another guy taking advantage of him), virtually no Peter Hook, and the music sounds like it should be in a commercial for a cereal with strawberries.......Damn that Stephen Hague!

J

I think the message may be too subtle for No Holiday to understand.

Hmmm... actually I am not really interested in what New Order songs/versions other people DON'T like... for all those 'dislikers' I've got one suggestion:

Don't listen anymore! Problem solved

Ok, I love the 1987 version, and the 1995 Arthur baker mix. The version I can't stand is 1963 '94, a missing verse, and just really bad editing.

michael preda wrote: Ok, I love the 1987 version, and the 1995 Arthur baker mix. The version I can't stand is 1963 '94, a missing verse, and just really bad editing.

So you don't like all the '94 versions...

Hey musicolog, if you don't like this thread then don't contribute to it. Just because you are fans of a band does not mean you have to love everything they put out. And if I wanna discuss the fact that I don't like the 1987 version of 1963 I will do so you human serviette!

J

No Holiday wrote: Hey musicoloog, if you don't like this thread then don't contribute to it. Just because you are fans of a band does not mean you have to love everything they put out. And if I wanna discuss the fact that I don't like the 1987 version of 1963 I will do so you human serviette!

J

This is weird... I have to read and accept your opinion, but somehow you don't allow me to write down mine??? No need to call me names...

And yeah... I don't like this thread...

No Holiday wrote: Hey musicolog, if you don't like this thread then don't contribute to it. Just because you are fans of a band does not mean you have to love everything they put out. And if I wanna discuss the fact that I don't like the 1987 version of 1963 I will do so you human serviette!

J

I don't like No Holiday. Can we discuss that then?

noorder wrote:

No Holiday wrote: Hey musicolog, if you don't like this thread then don't contribute to it. Just because you are fans of a band does not mean you have to love everything they put out. And if I wanna discuss the fact that I don't like the 1987 version of 1963 I will do so you human serviette!

J

I don't like No Holiday. Can we discuss that then?

Nah... that's too easy. Really not my cup of tea to use this thread/forum for such "nonsense"...

Just let J dislike some songs... that's not my problem, is it?

musicoloog wrote:

michael preda wrote: Ok, I love the 1987 version, and the 1995 Arthur baker mix. The version I can't stand is 1963 '94, a missing verse, and just really bad editing.

So you don't like all the '94 versions...

No, I actually like BLT '94. I'm referring to the Best Of's 1963 '94, it just doesnt work for me. Not sure if theres other 1963 '94's.

I would actually love to hear you british dorks and tarbox if possible discuss your dislike of me...I mean you must think i'm self centered in wanting to? So be it.... You and your dry responses and wry remarks. Yeah some Americans don't like me either on here. Fuck em. And if you're not down with Holiday Fuck You Too! You are extraordinarily antagonistic against me and I'm aware of my bad rep, though not quite sure why I got it in the first place.....maybe you need someone more interesting than you to talk down to to mask your own insecurities!!!!!!! MY LIFE AINT NO HOLIDAY 2009!

J

No Holiday wrote: I would actually love to hear you british dorks and tarbox if possible discuss your dislike of me...I mean you must think i'm self centered in wanting to? So be it.... You and your dry responses and wry remarks. Yeah some Americans don't like me either on here. Fuck em. And if you're not down with Holiday Fuck You Too! You are extraordinarily antagonistic against me and I'm aware of my bad rep, though not quite sure why I got it in the first place.....maybe you need someone more interesting than you to talk down to to mask your own insecurities!!!!!!! MY LIFE AINT NO HOLIDAY 2009!

J

Not to be a Cunt, but they're just baiting you, Liam did it to me and I just laughed it off. They know you'll get offended and comment back, it's like setting yourself up. Just learn to laugh along, none of it is ever really meant anyway.

michael preda wrote:

No Holiday wrote: I would actually love to hear you british dorks and tarbox if possible discuss your dislike of me...I mean you must think i'm self centered in wanting to? So be it.... You and your dry responses and wry remarks. Yeah some Americans don't like me either on here. Fuck em. And if you're not down with Holiday Fuck You Too! You are extraordinarily antagonistic against me and I'm aware of my bad rep, though not quite sure why I got it in the first place.....maybe you need someone more interesting than you to talk down to to mask your own insecurities!!!!!!! MY LIFE AINT NO HOLIDAY 2009!

J

Not to be a Cunt, but they're just baiting you, Liam did it to me and I just laughed it off. They know you'll get offended and comment back, it's like setting yourself up. Just learn to laugh along, none of it is ever really meant anyway.

The original version is by far the best to my ears. Its got a nice intro, dramtic tension building with the strings, great lyrics, one of Barneys best ever vocals, the guitars are low in the mix for a change, and a great bass outro.

My favourite part of the song is the coda(?)nr the end "I just want you to be mine, and I dont want this world to shine...". Just great.

The edit version harshly chops this coda(?) off so deserves no respect. I cant work out whether Im keen on the Baker version or not. It has a more poppy sound and I like the acoustic guitar played during the verses. But I think the bass melody riff is a bit too much with all the keyboard and that. It just sounds a bit too conjested.

NO Regret wrote: The original version is by far the best to my ears. Its got a nice intro, dramtic tension building with the strings, great lyrics, one of Barneys best ever vocals, the guitars are low in the mix for a change, and a great bass outro.

My favourite part of the song is the coda(?)nr the end "I just want you to be mine, and I dont want this world to shine...". Just great.

The edit version harshly chops this coda(?) off so deserves no respect. I cant work out whether Im keen on the Baker version or not. It has a more poppy sound and I like the acoustic guitar played during the verses. But I think the bass melody riff is a bit too much with all the keyboard and that. It just sounds a bit too conjested.

Totally agree.My feelings entirely.Spot on.

i dunno ,this song is gay.

Not everything from 1987 is bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

coney island baby wrote: i dunno ,this song is gay.

FFS!!!!!!!!!!

michael preda wrote:

No Holiday wrote: And if you're not down with Holiday Fuck You Too! You are extraordinarily antagonistic against me and I'm aware of my bad rep, though not quite sure why I got it in the first place.....

they're just baiting you, They know you'll get offended and comment back, it's like setting yourself up. Just learn to laugh along, none of it is ever really meant anyway.

shhhhhhhhhh! you are gonna ruin the party!

nool is already boring enough lately!

noorder wrote:

coney island baby wrote: i dunno ,this song is gay.

FFS!!!!!!!!!!

hehe, you took my bait. I did it on purpose.

No Holiday wrote: Hey Major Tarantino, you're a Major Jackoff.

Hey No Holiday, you're a cunt

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Major Tarantino wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Major Tarantino wrote: The original version of 1963 is brilliant.

As for your explanation of the lyrics I think you need to read the explanation written by Bernard himself in the New Order sheet music book.

I do not know if you were referring to what I said or not.....but I know that bernard wrote down what 1963 is about for the New Irder sheet music book. JFK and all that.

My explanation of lyrics was actually referring to the lyrics of True Faith, which is, in Barney's own words, about smack addiction.

Sorry, I was referring to No Holiday's comment:

"Awkward lyrics (Barney singing about another guy taking advantage of him)"

Ah, alright. I thought as much. My apologies, Major.

I never thought that the lyrics were about a guy taking advantage of Barney....when I first heard the song, before I knew about the JFK inspiration, I actually thought Barney writing and singing from the point of view of a woman...

As a few other folks have remarked on this thread...

I love the way Barney sings on 1963...it is indeed very emotional and very sincere. The very first time I heard the song, I cracked up laughing when I heard Barney sing "Johnny, don't point that gun at me"....because its so absurd in that way Barney has...

But when he sings "There's so many ways that our lives have changed, but please, I beg, don't do this to me".....I find those lyrics to be good...and Barney's delivery of them is surprisingly effective.

Yeah, one of his best vocals. Seems to get better as the songs progresses.