New Order - A Re-appraisal

I still listen to them regularly and live the bass sound is great.

BUT, given the fact that it is the electronic side that defines them, I dont quite think they are/were as cutting edge as people make out. The breakthrough album PC&L is fine, but groups in Germany and Italy had been doing this electronic stuff 5 or 6 years previously.

A lot is written about Kraftwerk, but I think Italy gets overlooked greatly in the development of european disco and electronic music. Some artists you might consider:

Patrick Cowley Giorgio Moroder Fun Fun Koto Industry Gazebo Cyber People Duke Lake P Lion Canton Shah The Twins Modern Talking Savage - My personal favourite. Great subtle synth work. similar to thieves like us

Of course the great thing about these groups is its the machines that are the stars, some of these are now legendary:

Yamaha DX7 - features on BLT Roland D50 - Technique Roland Juno 106 Prophet VS minimoog

How the Dx7 attained any kind of status other than as a breakfast bar I do not know. Hateful noises (lemme gues...on BLT it's the synthbass and the gated brass?), and a user interface that could bring a computer programmer to tears. NEVER liked any Dx at all, their only use these days is if you want to make and 80's pastiche. They also pretty much brought about the death of synth programming. Casio CZ's are by FAR a more useful and warmer instrument....their output is shockingly noisy but.

Juno60 is better than a 106 if you ask me.

I think what NO CAN claim credit for is getting guitar loving meatheads to like synths.

EDIT: I'd grant the Dx1 classic status if they'd ever built more than a few dozen. If you are not familliar with it, look it up, it was a truly stupendous machine, I believe they were all destroyed during a bid to seize control of the planet.

Not to be too geeky about it but I believe they used a DX5 not a DX7 on BLT.

However, I'd let that be verified by one of the better New Order keyboard historians.

they used a roland d110 for the choir sound on BLT, that realy is a cheap piece of shit, but in the right hands can be put to good use.

I don't think anyone who is a serious new order fan, and especially not new order themselves has claimed that new order were ground breaking in their use of synthesizers, they were just using the technology of the day and making music they liked, times change, people change, they moved on. yes, PCL had more synth based tracks than get ready, but when you listen to the majority of their synth based stuff from this century, it's not as cutting edge, because they are not young men living in that scene, they are in their 50's and to some extent re living the former JD glory years, whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion, but it's what was collectively decided by the band.

It did make me smile in the Glasgow DVD (i think) when Barney say's he's going to liven it up by playing something more synth based, and it doesn't really, I think as long as it's got loud drums and hooky's bass most fans will be jumping about like idiots, I know i do!

I'll give you moroder, the man's a genius, son of my farther was a classic!

Half a D50/550 with the FX units switched off=D10/110 ;)

Those thin, cheap sounding noises that Roland do so much of, they're wonderful, they mix so nicely instead of being sonic primadonnas that battle to have the whole soundscape to themselves.

New Order (and Barney in particular) have never made any secret of their influence from Moroder.

Mansour Ali wrote: I still listen to them regularly and live the bass sound is great.

BUT, given the fact that it is the electronic side that defines them, I dont quite think they are/were as cutting edge as people make out. The breakthrough album PC&L is fine, but groups in Germany and Italy had been doing this electronic stuff 5 or 6 years previously.

A lot is written about Kraftwerk, but I think Italy gets overlooked greatly in the development of european disco and electronic music. Some artists you might consider:

Patrick Cowley Giorgio Moroder Fun Fun Koto Industry Gazebo Cyber People Duke Lake P Lion Canton Shah The Twins Modern Talking Savage - My personal favourite. Great subtle synth work. similar to thieves like us

Of course the great thing about these groups is its the machines that are the stars, some of these are now legendary:

Yamaha DX7 - features on BLT Roland D50 - Technique Roland Juno 106 Prophet VS minimoog

If we take what you're saying literally, it would mean that the Italians were using these machines around '77 or so. Given that none of these machines (the minimoog being excepted) even existed in '82, when Blue Monday was recorded, let alone in in '77, the Italians would have been remarkably ahead of their time indeed, if they were in fact using these machines 7-10 years before they hit the market.

I think NEW Order are SHIT.:D

SHED wrote: I think NEW Order are SHIT.:D

Get a fcuking job you wanker!

Mansour Ali wrote: I still listen to them regularly and live the bass sound is great.

BUT, given the fact that it is the electronic side that defines them, I dont quite think they are/were as cutting edge as people make out. The breakthrough album PC&L is fine, but groups in Germany and Italy had been doing this electronic stuff 5 or 6 years previously.

A lot is written about Kraftwerk, but I think Italy gets overlooked greatly in the development of european disco and electronic music. Some artists you might consider:

Patrick Cowley Giorgio Moroder Fun Fun Koto Industry Gazebo Cyber People Duke Lake P Lion Canton Shah The Twins Modern Talking Savage - My personal favourite. Great subtle synth work. similar to thieves like us

Of course the great thing about these groups is its the machines that are the stars, some of these are now legendary:

Yamaha DX7 - features on BLT Roland D50 - Technique Roland Juno 106 Prophet VS minimoog

Although you use a great list of old Italos from the 80's. (yes, they all are from the 80's and not from the 70's), it's only Giorgio Moroder (Donna Summer) and Patrick Cowley (Sylvester) who were first. Germany had great producers and artists, but they are also from the early eighties. The ONLY thing from the 70's that springs to mind is Easy Going-frontman/runner Claudio Simonetti (yes, from Italy). He was responsible for a LOT of good Italo music and a really good producer in the 80's.

The majority of names on that list are Italo-Disco producers who came to prominence in the 80's after NO's initial dabblings with synth work. And come on, Savage???? Your 'favourite' and the best example of the genre? Like saying that 2 Unlimited are the best example of house music. Cheesy old bollocks.

EDIT: Just realise I've pretty much repeated what the poster above me said. Sorry Luke!

New Order were the first to really play real instruments against the sputtering sequencers and drum machines as part of their sound, weren't they? I'm drawing a blank at the moment of anything earlier. I always thought that that was their claim to fame.

Don't forget Kirlian Camera.

Just as a matter of interest as I wouldn't have a clue - where do the B52s come into all this?

They were doing synths + guitars in the 70s e.g. Planet Claire.

Presumably, there were influenced by Germany/Italy too?