Anyone feel like recommending the best early NO gigs to a noob?

Greetings, all.

Figured that, for my first post, I might as well jump in feet-first. I guess you could say I'm a pretty big JD/NO fan: I have everything JD has ever released (up until these new reissues), including the box set and the Preston and Les Bain Douches discs, and I have all the NO albums up to Substance, plus Retro, Singles, and that lame (the best of) set from around 1995 or so. In case you're wondering, no I never bothered with Technique. Why? Because I thought the supposedly big singles off of it -- "Fine Time" and "Round & Round" -- were godawful. If I've been making a horrible mistake (in other words, if the rest of the album is actually 6 songs as good as "Vanishing Point"), then please do tell and I'll correct that soon. But money doesn't grow on trees, and I make it a point of pride to never download legally available music. Bootlegs? Sure. But not official CDs.

Anyway, those are my bona fides. I've got the albums, I've got the A-sides, I've got the ALTERNATE A-sides, I've got the B-sides, etc. I've done my research in spades: I can rattle off the differences between various B-side remixes that I've never even come close to hearing, I can lament the fact that I too have never heard the FULL 12" mix of TPK, and yes I even managed to finally hear "Mesh" -- the REAL "Mesh!" -- on YouTube...wish I could get a nice FLAC copy tho'...

But what I really want is to get my hands on quality early live NO. I've heard all about their dodgy reputation as a live band, and I've heard the (ho-hum) live disc on Retro, and I don't care: I know there must be more to the story than that. I'll confess my bias right here: As much as like a lot of material from Low-Life onwards, my heart resides with the early NO singles and albums (for example, I still think "Leave Me Alone" is the best damn thing either JD or NO ever did, from a purely sonic/musical perspective). So I'm desperate for some guidance on what gigs to look for from 1981-1985. This was clearly the era when they were at their most experimental and daring both in the studio AND live: playing half-written versions of their new songs and working them out onstage long before they had recorded them or nailed down the final arrangements. What's this I hear about 15 minute long run-throughs of "Everything's Gone Green" and "Thieves Like Us?" Gimme gimme! A "5-8-6" lasting a quarter hour? Hell, I'm a glutton for experimental punishment! All those songs from Movement that are supposedly much better live than on the (crap) album? A missing chapter!

I've even roamed through a hundred or so pages of this forum's archives looking for tips...but the problem is I have no idea how to narrow the field down or get my hands on the shows once I've done that.

So, any recommendations? Throw out your nominees for the greatest early shows? The ones that are otherwise average but contain head-splittingly awesome rarities? Best sound quality? Historic gigs? "Best version of [song x]" gigs? I've spent enough time combing through the pages of this forum to know that there are some seriously experienced NO punters here. Please, share your knowledge with a live noob!

Oh, and erm...hook a bro up with some flacs or mp3s while you're at it. Dimeadozen isn't exactly chock full o' New Order nuts, after all. [Seriously, this part is optional...the info's all I really want.]

Sorry to ramble on so much. It's just that I've been looking through the New Order gigography over the past few weeks and my mouth has been watering...every night a different setlist, new songs debuting nightly, stories of hilarious Barney fuck-ups and mishaps...I want to get my hands on this stuff desperately.

So...I guess not?

That's what I get for writing a bloody treatise when a simple question would have done.

Greetings esotericCD ....although i own one of the BEST of COLLECTIONs in ENGLAND and have been to a FEW concerts of NEW ORDER-the main players on here who have 400 PLUS concerts of LIVE stuff have all gone AWOL since the demise of NEW ORDER and personal problems in their own LIVES.Thus there is NOT a DELUGE of inFo at the moment.I have just got outta of jail recently due to being in possesion of a duster in a built up area.Hang around and i am SURE someone will point you in the RIGHT direction.A few KNOW ALLs like Diggy Mike and SHUG have some good stuff.But the MAIN man is TIM(nice but not dim).He can recite every SETLIST backwards.Just beware of the VIKINGs. Hope this doesn't HELP

esotericCD wrote: So...I guess not?

That's what I get for writing a bloody treatise when a simple question would have done.

It's not an instant response site any more. There will be a few posts when you wake up.

As for Technique, get it. Fine Time and R&R are probably two of the weaker tracks on it.

No need to download anything. If you want some early live New Order to add to your collection, just pick up these two official DVD releases:

3 16

New York 18 November,1981 1)ICB (actually Chosen Time) 2)Dreams Never End 3)Everything's Gone Green 4)Truth 5)Senses 6)Procession 7)Ceremony 8)Denial 9)Temptation

READING FESTIVAL 30 August 1998 1)Regret 2)Touched by the Hand of God 3)Isolation 4)Atmosphere 5)Heart and Soul 6)Paradise 7)Bizarre love triangle 8)True Faith 9)Temptation 10)Blue Monday 11)World in Motion

LIVE IN GLASGOW

Disc 1 - Live in Glasgow 2006 01 Crystal 02 Turn 03 True Faith 04 Regret 05 Ceremony 06 Who's Joe 07 These Days 08 Krafty 09 Waiting for the Sirens' Call 10 Your Silent Face 11 Guilt Is a Useless Emotion 12 Bizarre Love Triangle 13 Temptation 14 Perfect Kiss 15 Blue Monday 16 Transmission 17 Shadowplay 18 Love Will Tear Us Apart

Disc 2 - Rare and Unseen Footage 01 Ceremony [Celebration, 1981] 02 I.C.B. [Celebration, 1981] 03 Chosen Time [Celebration, 1981] 04 Senses [Glastonbury, 1981] 05 Procession [Glastonbury, 1981] 06 The Him [Glastonbury, 1981] 07 Ultraviolence [Rome, 1982] 08 Hurt [Rome, 1982] 09 Leave Me Alone [Cork, 1983] 10 Everything's Gone Green [Cork, 1983] 11 Sunrise [Rotterdam, 1985] 12 As It Is When It Was [Rotterdam, 1985] 13 The Village [Rotterdam, 1985] 14 This Time of Night [Rotterdam, 1985] 15 We All Stand [Toronto, 1985] 16 Age of Consent [Toronto, 1985] 17 Temptation [Toronto, 1985] 18 Dream Attack [Shoreline, Bay Area, 1989] 19 1963 [Shoreline, Bay Area, 1989] 20 Run Wild [Hyde Park, London, 2006] 21 She's Lost Control [Hyde Park, London, 2006]

1982-08-30, The Venue, Blackpool

1984-07-07, Studio 54, Barcelona, Spain

1985-05-01, Kosei Nekin Kaiken Hall, Tokyo, Japan

1986 03-01, Spectrum Arena, Warrington, UK

are some to get you started, I have a shit load to sort through in my torrent list though.

That Killkenny one introduced by Janice long on Radio 1 is tops.

Anything off the 81 European Tour is a must, also Brussels 82, Milan, Bologna and Rome 82, Washington 83, Hacienda July 83, Bradford, Bristol, Nottingham 84, Portsmouth 84.

Chris Nash wrote: I'd add the Tolworth Rec gig - the scooter, the endless version of EGG mixing with Temptation etc.

Also the short set gig at Heaven - 'Ultradisco'.

I've been to see the band once or twice and although I enjoyed some of the later gigs, the best atmosphere was 81 - 85.

**Technique is massively overrated by people here. There are a couple of good tracks, but that's it. Depends if you prefer bass guitars being almost non-existent in a mix I suppose...**Oh, and there's one 'l' in Kilkenny Niel, unless you're talking 'South Park'

No such problem with the booming bass of Brotherhood or Lowlife. Technique sounds a bit too polished with too many pedestrian guitar tracks. Even watching on youtube the early 80's gigs sound better.

Chris Nash wrote: I'd add the Tolworth Rec gig - the scooter, the endless version of EGG mixing with Temptation etc.

Also the short set gig at Heaven - 'Ultradisco'.

I've been to see the band once or twice and although I enjoyed some of the later gigs, the best atmosphere was 81 - 85.

Technique is massively overrated by people here. There are a couple of good tracks, but that's it. Depends if you prefer bass guitars being almost non-existent in a mix I suppose...

Oh, and there's one 'l' in Kilkenny Niel, unless you're talking 'South Park'

i love that!!!

is this the one where they played decades?? Beautiful!

Re-Member wrote: No need to download anything. If you want some early live New Order to add to your collection, just pick up these two official DVD releases:

3 16

New York 18 November,1981 1)ICB (actually Chosen Time) 2)Dreams Never End 3)Everything's Gone Green 4)Truth 5)Senses 6)Procession 7)Ceremony 8)Denial 9)Temptation

READING FESTIVAL 30 August 1998 1)Regret 2)Touched by the Hand of God 3)Isolation 4)Atmosphere 5)Heart and Soul 6)Paradise 7)Bizarre love triangle 8)True Faith 9)Temptation 10)Blue Monday 11)World in Motion

---

LIVE IN GLASGOW

Disc 1 - Live in Glasgow 2006 01 Crystal 02 Turn 03 True Faith 04 Regret 05 Ceremony 06 Who's Joe 07 These Days 08 Krafty 09 Waiting for the Sirens' Call 10 Your Silent Face 11 Guilt Is a Useless Emotion 12 Bizarre Love Triangle 13 Temptation 14 Perfect Kiss 15 Blue Monday 16 Transmission 17 Shadowplay 18 Love Will Tear Us Apart

Disc 2 - Rare and Unseen Footage 01 Ceremony [Celebration, 1981] 02 I.C.B. [Celebration, 1981] 03 Chosen Time [Celebration, 1981] 04 Senses [Glastonbury, 1981] 05 Procession [Glastonbury, 1981] 06 The Him [Glastonbury, 1981] 07 Ultraviolence [Rome, 1982] 08 Hurt [Rome, 1982] 09 Leave Me Alone [Cork, 1983] 10 Everything's Gone Green [Cork, 1983] 11 Sunrise [Rotterdam, 1985] 12 As It Is When It Was [Rotterdam, 1985] 13 The Village [Rotterdam, 1985] 14 This Time of Night [Rotterdam, 1985] 15 We All Stand [Toronto, 1985] 16 Age of Consent [Toronto, 1985] 17 Temptation [Toronto, 1985] 18 Dream Attack [Shoreline, Bay Area, 1989] 19 1963 [Shoreline, Bay Area, 1989] 20 Run Wild [Hyde Park, London, 2006] 21 She's Lost Control [Hyde Park, London, 2006]

I'd counsel against the Glasgow extras if you are a big Barney fan, the material seems to have been specifically (and frankly, successfully) chosen purely to make him look a tit.

SHED wrote: Greetings esotericCD ....although i own one of the BEST of COLLECTIONs in ENGLAND and have been to a FEW concerts of NEW ORDER-the main players on here who have 400 PLUS concerts of LIVE stuff have all gone AWOL since the demise of NEW ORDER and personal problems in their own LIVES.Thus there is NOT a DELUGE of inFo at the moment.I have just got outta of jail recently due to being in possesion of a duster in a built up area.Hang around and i am SURE someone will point you in the RIGHT direction.A few KNOW ALLs like Diggy Mike and SHUG have some good stuff.But the MAIN man is TIM(nice but not dim).He can recite every SETLIST backwards.Just beware of the VIKINGs. Hope this doesn't HELP

You would have one of the nest collections in England if i sent you half me stuff!

I havent forgotten bout the sticker(s),cant get to them at the minute,when i do i'll send them post haste.

To our newb friend,one to avoid is the 2001 Koln gig,they were fookin shite!

I was there but wished i wouldnt have been!

You cannae go far wrong with owt between 82-87 in my opinion!

enjoy them amigo!

From watching it on You Tube, I'd say the Pumped Full Of Drugs gig (Shinjuku Koseinenkin Hall, Tokyo, 02 May 1985) is damn good. Too bad you can only get the DVD in Japan.

PFD HMV JP

It's about £24 with postage though, a bit expensive for me. I can't find it anywhere else cheaper.

If you only get one New Order live recording get the 1984 Barcelona sound board recording - superb stuff - should be right up your street. It's on Dimeadozen here :-

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=149520

...also wrt Technique I'm with you on "Fine Time" it really was a poor advert for the album. However, you MUST get Technique - after PCL this is my second favourite album. You need "Mr Disco", "All the Way", "Vanishing Point" and "Dream Attack" in your life. Try to get the original Factory or CentreDate release - forget the remaster.

Cheers Adam, nice one......

esotericCD wrote:

But what I really want is to get my hands on quality early live NO. I've heard all about their dodgy reputation as a live band, and I've heard the (ho-hum) live disc on Retro, and I don't care: I know there must be more to the story than that.

Keep on posting...

Retroesque wrote: From watching it on You Tube, I'd say the Pumped Full Of Drugs gig (Shinjuku Koseinenkin Hall, Tokyo, 02 May 1985) is damn good. Too bad you can only get the DVD in Japan.

PFD HMV JP

It's about £24 with postage though, a bit expensive for me. I can't find it anywhere else cheaper.

i got mine on ebay for $30 a while ago. yes its great!

here you go http://rapidshare.com/files/164135157/New_Order-_Pumped_Full_Of_Drugs.zip

Adam Tate wrote: If you only get one New Order live recording get the 1984 Barcelona sound board recording - superb stuff - should be right up your street. It's on Dimeadozen here :-

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=149520

shocking performance though!

Tim wrote:

Adam Tate wrote: If you only get one New Order live recording get the 1984 Barcelona sound board recording - superb stuff - should be right up your street. It's on Dimeadozen here :-

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=149520

shocking performance though!

I wouldn't say 'shocking' performance - sloppy in places - but overall my favourite bootleg recording for the sound quality / song selection / excitement of the performance. This is the one I keep coming back to have another listen to (whereas a lot of my New Order boots languish having been listened to just once or twice).

your cd's are in the post mate, should be there in 40to70 months, hope they find you well, any abuse/problems pm me

E=MC Hammer wrote: your cd's are in the post mate, should be there in 40to70 months, hope they find you well, any abuse/problems pm me

They have arrived! And as I am currently listening in between balancing too many work responsibilities, I'm putting together a little reciprocal something we talked about earlier (sshh...it involves the complete BBC sessions of a VERY FAMOUS AND MOPEY PEER GROUP of NO's that many here like to dump on). I'll PM you in a bit with details.

I'm listening to these great gigs from Paradise Garage and the Hac '83 and LOVING it. Thanks so much, again. My girlfriend's out of town on business for the week, so I'm thinking it's going to be a "dodgy live New Order" marathon until Friday. (She enjoys the NO mix CD I gave her quite a bit - leans heavy on the '81-'84 material - but I doubt she'd be up for hissy AUD bootlegs.)

Also: A couple people have mentioned Glastonbury '81 as one I should hunt down. I have the "In A Lonely Place" from the Retro set, obviously, and the sound quality is quite good. But I was under the impression that the rest of the performance wasn't so inspired. Have I been cruelly misinformed?

esotericCD wrote:

E=MC Hammer wrote: your cd's are in the post mate, should be there in 40to70 months, hope they find you well, any abuse/problems pm me

They have arrived! And as I am currently listening in between balancing too many work responsibilities, I'm putting together a little reciprocal something we talked about earlier (sshh...it involves the complete BBC sessions of a VERY FAMOUS AND MOPEY PEER GROUP of NO's that many here like to dump on). I'll PM you in a bit with details.

I'm listening to these great gigs from Paradise Garage and the Hac '83 and LOVING it. Thanks so much, again. My girlfriend's out of town on business for the week, so I'm thinking it's going to be a "dodgy live New Order" marathon until Friday. (She enjoys the NO mix CD I gave her quite a bit - leans heavy on the '81-'84 material - but I doubt she'd be up for hissy AUD bootlegs.)

Also: A couple people have mentioned Glastonbury '81 as one I should hunt down. I have the "In A Lonely Place" from the Retro set, obviously, and the sound quality is quite good. But I was under the impression that the rest of the performance wasn't so inspired. Have I been cruelly misinformed?

hahaha good luck and cheers, i've not bothered with glasgo 81 yet, i will weed it soon but i'm hammering it a bit too much atm without giving anything back, but i think it's a must IMO,

you've got a girlfriend who likes NO, fucking lucky sod!

Best ones are with Ian singing, Joy Division invented music, New Order is fags eurodisco dude!

youtube has some good odds and ends- theres one of tony wilson and an inebriated barney at glastonbury 81