What's the best book about New Order?

Salut/Hello guys,

This is my first posting on to the NOO forum. I'm 25 and I've been a die-hard fan of New Order for about 3 years. I listen to dozens of bands but about half of the stuff I listen to tends to be New Order and Joy Division.

I recently realized while talking to a friend that I've never read a book about New Order... What's strange is that when I thought about a good book to pick up, I'd never even heard of any.

Anyway, I figured the best way to find out is to ask you all what the best book on the band is.

I'd prefer something written by somebody who was there first-hand, but really, anything that is comprehensive, that talks about production methods and focuses on the music rather than gossip or kiss-and-tell stories or drugs and something that focuses more on New Order rather than Joy Division.

Looking forward to your opinions!

There aren't many books that cover New Order specifically, although there are several that discuss them in the greater context of Factory Records. Bernard has a biography but I don't know if it's been released outside the UK.

Pick up Grant Gee's documentary about Joy Division. It's spectacular, and all told through first-hand accounts.

LoveTechnique wrote:

I'd prefer something written by somebody who was there first-hand, but really, anything that is comprehensive, that talks about production methods and focuses on the music rather than gossip or kiss-and-tell stories or drugs and something that focuses more on New Order rather than Joy Division.

I wish there is a book like the one you describe. I've read a few over the years, and I can tell you that the ones published by Omnibus Press (I think one's called "Joy Division + New Order: Pleasures & Wayward Distractions", and the other "Dreams Never End"), are just terrible. They merely compile hearsay from NME, Sounds, and whatever music newsprint was out there at the time. Also, not that American journalism is that good either, but I tend to think that there's a lot of weird musings that English music journalists put into their writings, like Paul Morley's stuff. I'm not into that... it's distracting, pretentious and boring.

However, I know there are some pretty good technical articles in Sound on Sound. Here's this one about the writing of True Faith and 1963: Sound on Sound - Classic Tracks - True Faith

A few years ago, there was another article in Sound on Sound about Roger Lyon's (aka Lionrock) efforts to beef up the live version of Blue Monday. Here's the link to that: Sound on Sound - Recreating Blue Monday

Good luck.

LoveTechnique wrote: Salut/Hello guys,

I'd prefer something written by somebody who was there first-hand, but really, anything that is comprehensive, that talks about production methods and focuses on the music rather than gossip or kiss-and-tell stories or drugs and something that focuses more on New Order rather than Joy Division.

Looking forward to your opinions!

If it's just the music you are interested in, my suggestion would be: True Faith: An Armchair Guide to New Order

It gives a complete discography of New Order and all the side projects up until 2005 with loads of insightful backstory and commentary.

I'd stay well clear of the David Nolan effort. Having read the book I felt that it didn't truly get to grips with it's subject. Although Bernard adds a few paragraphs here and there, it was clear that he had little interest in the project

On reflection David Nolan probably did the best job that he could have done. But he wasn't helped by an awkward Bernard Sumner.

If you like Joy Division then Torn Apart is by far the best thing written about Cutis and JD.

I really enjoyed Nolan's "Confusion",but would also recommend Mick Middles' "FROM JOY DIVISION TO NEW ORDER".You get the whole shebang,not only the band's background but paints a picture of mid-to-late 1970's Manchester punk music scene.Only goes as far as Hacienda closing,whereas "CONFUSION" touches on the New Order split.

COATSEY'S FRADDERS FACTOID #1:

The best things written about both bands are:

Joy Division: "Touching from a Distance"

JD/New Order: "An Ideal for Living"

Everything else written about The Group is, at best, second-rate.

That Middles book with Tony Wilson's ex about JD was pretty illuminating..... combined with Touching From a Distance and you get a pretty good idea of what was going on in the 70s...

An Ideal for Living is a bit over the top but a decent opener text for JD and NO up til about 1983....

neworderstory (video) is a pretty good primer on New Order.

Maybe it's because I'm American but I find Mick Middles to be very frustrating. It seems like he is paid by the word and is trying to double (triple?) the length of the books, or he is just so full of himself he can't shut up his masturbatory prose. :\ohwell: Need a strong editor.

Eric Wang wrote:

However, I know there are some pretty good technical articles in Sound on Sound. Here's this one about the writing of True Faith and 1963: Sound on Sound - Classic Tracks - True Faith

A few years ago, there was another article in Sound on Sound about Roger Lyon's (aka Lionrock) efforts to beef up the live version of Blue Monday. Here's the link to that: Sound on Sound - Recreating Blue Monday

Good luck.

I just read those and they were awesome. I skipped over the more technical stuff, but it was fascinating to read about how the band works and what they are like in the studio. Highly recommended.

0_o wrote: Maybe it's because I'm American but I find Mick Middles to be very frustrating. It seems like he is paid by the word and is trying to double (triple?) the length of the books, or he is just so full of himself he can't shut up his masturbatory prose. :\ohwell: Need a strong editor.

That's exactly what I'm talking about above. "Mastabatory prose" is a great way of putting it. It's like that horrible, laughable intro to New Order Story: "Because they care... because they couldn't care less..." Blah, blah, blah....

Is a history in cuttings still knocking round in pdf?

Not books but 24 hour party people and The New Order Story are worth a watch.

Mark Johnson's Ideal For Living was a great help when i was trying to find out more/ learn about JD and NO back in the day (84 ish). Same with History In Cuttings which has been available in PDF form for some years now and is often given a link to download on here.

Never bothered with that From Joy Division To New Order by Middles but it seems to have favourable reviews.

Touching From A Distance is pure quality.

Most recent one i read is Torn Apart. A quality read with a lot of stuff about Ian Curtis i hadn't read anywhere else i.e. the stuff about him becoming friends with some despondent lad in Macclesfield (?) town centre on weekday afternoons or summat

Touching From A Distance by Deborah Curtis is essential.

It's a good book in and of itself and provides the best info into the actual life of the band.

Then the 'Joy DIvision' documentary that came out a couple years ago.

Then 'New Order Story' I guess, though the narration is hard to stomach.

Anything else is for the truly obsessive.

Yeah TOUCHING FROM A DISTANCE is a good book,dispenses of any canonisation of Ian,without actually totally assassinating his character. 24 Hour Party People by Tony Wilson is another must have book.Very very witty book,Wilson=Splendid Cnut. My good lady bought it me a year ago from "the book man" for £1.00. I found out it was signed by Mr Wilson!!!

johnny wrote: Mark Johnson's Ideal For Living was a great help when i was trying to find out more/ learn about JD and NO back in the day (84 ish).

I second (third?) that. An Ideal for Living is very well written and worth seeking out as it is now out of print. I picked mine up on ebay a few years back for $10

Overall, it looks like there's a mild consensus for Mick Middles' "From Joy Division to New Order" but there seems to be a stronger consensus that the definitive New Order book has yet to be written. Joy Division has been getting quite the resurgence as of late, most strongly because of the Ian biopic and the documentary, but the latter half of the story has sadly yet to be chronicled by those who were there and who wrote it.

Thanks to everyone for a stimulating discussion!

Really good question, I've enjoyed reading this thread. For me there have been 6 key books that over the years have peeled away the Legend and revealed a bit more of The Story each time. If you have the time I'd recommend reading them in that order for staggered effect.

1. "Pleasures & Waywood Distractions" by Brian Edge. When I first got obsessively into NO/JD in 1985 long before the internet and when the band really felt shrouded in mystery to me. This was the only book I found & my bible at the time. Has a Revised Edition which I think takes the story up to Substance. Lots of nice descriptions of all the tracks.

2. Year later I found "Ideal for Living" by Mark Johnson, which I'm now rediscovering as a descriptive gig companion to downloading all the wonderful JD +early NO bootlegs that a lovely person has put on the internet.

Nothing came out for years then.... 3. "From JD to NO" by Mick Middles illuminated all kinds of new Factory stories.

4. "Touching From a Distance" by Deborah Curtis unearthed the whole other angle of life with a 'rock star'.

5. "Torn Apart" by Middles & Lindsay Reade uncovered yet more new stuff just about the Joy Division years. (I think my favourite book to read 'as a story not resource'.)

6. "Confusion..." Bernard's book. Worth reading, just as a lighter bit of relief from all the Ian-focussed books in the past decade. Although still much emphasis on JD with large jumps in the NO years!

I feel JD has been exhausted now from all angles and the NO story really needs to be told as I think it's been badly neglected in print of late. Would really like to hear it from Stephen Morris's perspective. And a Tony Wilson biography is long overdue.

well, according to his twitter, stephen is reading the latest Pynchon novel, so maybe he will get inspired to write a bio in that type of style...... :) ????

I first read Brian Edge's excellent book back in the 80s and I still think it's a superb read. I must recommend Touching From A Distance too and True Faith. If you get all three, you'll get the definitive picture really.

I recently came across this old (but forgotten?) interview with Joy Division during the early months of 1980. It's an interesting read, and it's cool hearing Joy Division as they were talk about writing LWTUA and These Days. Here's the link: A Day Out With Joy Division

Cool interview with J.D.

But for chrissakes, hasn't J.D.'s overall merit and importance been talked about enough over the past couple of years?

That was basically 3 or 4 years from a band that went on to be exceptional for another 25+ years.

The other half [3/4?] of the story please!

LoveTechnique wrote: Cool interview with J.D.

But for chrissakes, hasn't J.D.'s overall merit and importance been talked about enough over the past couple of years?

That was basically 3 or 4 years from a band that went on to be exceptional for another 25+ years.

The other half [3/4?] of the story please!

I totally agree. I'm sick of the Joy Division story. New Order is treated like the afterbirth than the rebirth when it comes to pretty much everything (no quality control on the remasters, no book, no dogs, no fun).