RECYCLE
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Old Blue wrote: Get downloading kids, they're fucking great.
Except Subculture, natch.
Excellent stuff Jeb 
Hey, it only took three hours to get my first negative comments!
[DELETE]
I won't think twice about banning people from Blogspot or Flickr. You have no idea the amount of work that's gone into this project, but it's so much easier to tear things down when you can hide behind a computer screen.
This is for everyone to enjoy. Do better if you can. Remain quiet if you can't.
Jeb - Cannot thank you (& audio restoration guy) enough, fucking legends. Thought this would still be few months away.. Super effort & time given to the band we love & hate.
Nickos or the fucking Queen should knight you.
Im writing a letter to Obama now.....
Excellent work and thanks for posting link. Can't understand anyone being negative about this.
By the way, I got this error when extracting the Zip - "File error on 02 the kiss of death.m4a" anyone else have this problem?
CuanaD - D-plus wrote: By the way, I got this error when extracting the Zip - "File error on 02 the kiss of death.m4a" anyone else have this problem?
Yep I did - reported 'The file is corrupt' 
CuanaD - D-plus wrote: By the way, I got this error when extracting the Zip - "File error on 02 the kiss of death.m4a" anyone else have this problem?
I've not heard anyone else report an error, but I will re-upload that zip file when I get home tonight.
GAMICS wrote: Can't understand anyone being negative about this.
It was on Flickr. Someone set up an account just to leave a comment about the artwork being forged, not restored. We've not put all this work into the audio only to have the artwork be crappy jpegs of bent sleeves. Everything was scanned and cleaned up, then (when possible) all of the type was reset using the original fonts.
The metallic sleeve for The Perfect Kiss would not photograph, scan, or piece together well, so it's a fake - done entirely in Photoshop. 90% of the people seeing it wouldn't know if I didn't tell them. Ironically, the comment was left on the 7" copper sleeve for Ceremony, which was a straight-up scan.
Good lord. Quite simply outstanding work 
Astounding.
Gonna have to get me a good new printer for them sleeves.
Thanks for the HUGE work that you and your friends have invested in this amazing project - not just the audio, but the artwork (and the "how to" guide) as well!
I had the same problem as a few other people: The second track of "theperfectkiss.zip" (2. The Kiss Of Death) will not extract. The other files are fine.
But - you'll be checking in to it later, so...
Emile Strunz wrote: Why. The. Fuck. Aren't. You. In. Charge. Of. The. Remasters.
I guess life just isn't fair.
It is my (our) sincere hope that showing what could be done with this project will spur the band's management and London Records to actually manufacture it. We've already done all the work for them - there are FLAC files of all the audio, and Photoshop files for all the sleeves. A minimal amount of pre-production (proper mastering, output files for printing) would be needed to take the project straight into production.
I'm getting that same error regarding the 12" Kiss of Death. Says file is corrupt, and even trying to cut and paste it directly out of the zip folder won't work.
£50 Note wrote: We've already done all the work for them - there are FLAC files of all the audio, and Photoshop files for all the sleeves. A minimal amount of pre-production (proper mastering, output files for printing) would be needed to take the project straight into production.
Even then there is room for "the powers that be" to fark it up somehow... 
Re-Member wrote: I'm getting that same error regarding the 12" Kiss of Death. Says file is corrupt, and even trying to cut and paste it directly out of the zip folder won't work.
ME too.
RIP it up and start again
Old Blue wrote:
Those look excellent! I haven't even put my own set together yet.
There are more details to follow, but there will be a container for all the singles as well as a booklet.
The container is large enough to hold these 20 singles, and, say, 9 Joy Division singles and a further 20 New Order singles that cover the post-Factory years. You know, just in case those surface at some point.
I'm not normally moved to post anything but seeing as 50 has made the effort, I will. Nice one mate.
HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
em, tx a lot
It's the better consolation prize i could dream of (they don't release remasters in France, and even if, you have to buy them twice, they don't do replacement).
tx a lot 50
hero of the year !
Just a question not a complaint as I'll probably be listening to these mainly on my ipod anyway. But why, if you have put so many hours into restoring the audio did you decide not to go with FLAC but AAC instead? Just curious - they sound great anyway
M1 wrote: Just a question not a complaint as I'll probably be listening to these mainly on my ipod anyway. But why, if you have put so many hours into restoring the audio did you decide not to go with FLAC but AAC instead? Just curious - they sound great anyway
Because I'm hoping to avoid legal action, and I'm also hoping that London will pick up our ball and run with it. I want these to go into production.
There are FLAC sets, of course...just not making those public right now.
£50 Note wrote "These singles changed my life." I couldn't agree more.
And now, thanks to him and his helpers, we can all listen to them properly.
I'm eternally grateful.
Much props and thanks for this. The Shamen have a singles box. The Shamen!!! And NO doesn't? Thanks for righting the wrong.
I am a "lurker" mostly here too. Amazing. Thanks so much. I hope to meet you someday & buy you a beverage or three of your choice. Tops Sir!
excellent work, much appreciated. thank you.
i own most of this on vinyl, but rarely listen to vinyl these days..... this is awesome
Fantastic stuff, thanks for this labour of love.
Jeb, maybe set up a poll to indicate how many of us would still actually buy this set if manufactured?
The record company suits may take notice then!.
Tock wrote: Jeb, maybe set up a poll to indicate how many of us would still actually buy this set if manufactured?
The record company suits may take notice then!.
I think if anything, the suits would take notice that Jeb is providing a superior, highly desirable product that is unavailable and it may ultimately cause him to see some sort of lawsuit. Which of course, I hope never happens!
Sure, Jeb has stated that he wants/hopes the label(s) will pick up the work he and his friends have labored over and provide a high quality product for a real, physical release - but that doesn't mean they can't slap some sort of injunction or lawsuit against him.
I think we need to protect our boy. Maybe this thread should go into hiding and Jeb should be ushered into a "restoration protection program". You know?
People know the link and where to find it.
Yep, It's out there now and I'm sure the guys know the risks and probably expect a cease and desist order at some stage.
Hopefully by then though the record company/band will have got the message that this is a winning idea.
Tock wrote: Yep, It's out there now and I'm sure the guys know the risks and probably expect a cease and desist order at some stage.
Hopefully by then though the record company/band will have got the message that this is a winning idea.
We need a slogan for our campaign should Jeb find himself whisked away in a black sedan.
Free £50 Note.
Maybe not...
Didn't have any problem with Kiss Of Death and had actually never heard that Ivan Ivan mix so it's good stuff.
Temptation 7" sounding much much cleaner.Thanks to all involved.
johnny wrote: Didn't have any problem with Kiss Of Death and had actually never heard that Ivan Ivan mix so it's good stuff.
It took us a while to make sure we'd identified all the mixes.
I think Ivan Ivan did a decent job of trimming a 9 minute song down to 3.
The mix used on Lowlife is different than the mix used on the 12". The 12" is mixed with a wider stereo field and the synths are panned differently. The 7" edit is taken from the mix used on the album, and everything else comes from the mix on the 12".
It's never as simple as it looks (or sounds).
£50 Note wrote:
I think Ivan Ivan did a decent job of trimming a 9 minute song down to 3.
It's a lot nicer than the album verion, but still suffers with that dreadful "Whe.." cut when he lops the final verse.
Thanks £50. Ive just head Dubculture for the first time and it was a joy to hear a new new order track (well new to me anyhow).
Thanks for sharing.
Tock wrote: We need a slogan for our campaign should Jeb find himself whisked away in a black sedan.
"Don't be so sh*tty / free our Fitty! / He gave us what we want / so, don't be a c*nt."
Er, I dunno...
_
I'll say it again: Thank you for the tremendous work and voluminous effort put in by you, £50 and your friends.
An absolute gem 50,thank you & everyone else involved very,very much,greatly appreciated.Let's hope London take it up eh!
Sounds amazing so far, although I'm shocked Negative One hasn't commented yet with a bunch of graphs and lists of missing edits to prove we're all wrong for enjoying it.
The pictures on Flickr showing how to create the CD cases had me laughing. Talk about perfection.
Re-Member wrote: The pictures on Flickr showing how to create the CD cases had me laughing. Talk about perfection.
My husband and friends give me a lot of stick for being so anal retentive. 
Wow, just wow! I've only listened to a few tracks so far, and they sound fantastic. The artwork is also top notch.
This is something I wish I had the time to do. I've done the odd CD here and there for friends, with custom sleeves and labels, but nothing in this scope.
I think I might have to invest in a colour printer now so I can print out these marvelous sleeves and CD labels. Truly fantastic!
£50 Note wrote: In memory of John Hughes I've gone ahead and posted Shellshock.
I always wondered what 'Alex!' meant on the sleeve.
Luke wrote:
£50 Note wrote: In memory of John Hughes I've gone ahead and posted Shellshock.
I always wondered what 'Alex!' meant on the sleeve.
I thought that referred to Big Clive! :p
Luke wrote:
£50 Note wrote: In memory of John Hughes I've gone ahead and posted Shellshock.
I always wondered what 'Alex!' meant on the sleeve.
The picture is of a paint workshop wall in the area where the workers cleaned their brushes, ergo Alex must be a painter.
Excellent work Mr 50 Pound, real dedication there.
(how long will it be before some chancer bangs one onto e-bay?? 
)
Mr 50 quid - you may have already mentioned but do you have any plans to release the Minimal Records "Confusion" 1990 mixes in a similar fashion?
With such a superb job done on the other (earlier) Factory vinyl that would be a brilliant addition for many fans. I have my own vinyl conversions done from years ago but they are pretty dodgy and hardly do the mixes justice. No doubt from what we've heard you and your team could do far better.
Plus there is no danger EVER of those mixes being re-released, Warners probably don't even know they exist... they seemed to be an Arthur Baker project (his label?) from start to finish and he's shown no interest in re-releasing them on CD or digital for best part of 20 years.
Con-om-fus-ars-ion is fucking ace
A Fantastic job. a passionate work. Thank you so much for all of this. That's the best present we all dreamed of.
And, of course, if the record company follow your lead, I'll buy the official.
Again, a huge thank you Sir.
£50 Note, superb job! Enjoying this profusely. The details of these sound so cirsp in my Bose triports, amazing work.
Old Blue wrote: Get downloading kids, they're fucking great.
Except Subculture, natch.
These remixes suck but the Low Life version is awesome! That's the song that made a fan many many years ago
Guess I'm in the minority. I love the Sub-culture remixes and I think the 7" version kills.
I really like how frantic the energy is on these - especially those "coke" edits!
Never really cared for the album or the Razormaid versions, either. Different strokes and all that...
It seems that MediaFire is having some issues today. Not sure what's going on, but if you have trouble unzipping a file, check back tomorrow. For example, the downloaded Blue Monday file shows as 5 MB, when it should be 35 MB. Check the file size in each post. If it doesn't match what you downloaded, don't try to open it.
it's cool:)
Perfect Kiss and Blue Monday seem to be having issues today, but after a few tries they downloaded properly.
Joy Division:
- An Ideal For Living (plus bonus track)
- A Factory Sample
- Transmission (plus bonus tracks)
- Licht Und Blindheit
- Love Will Tear Us Apart (plus bonus tracks)
- Komakino
- She's Lost Control (plus bonus tracks)
- Atmosphere '88
- Love Will Tear Us Apart '95 (plus bonus tracks)
New Order post-Factory
- Confusion 1990
- Regret
- Ruined In A Day
- World (Price Of Love)
- Spooky
- True Faith '94
- 1963
- Blue Monday '95
- (The Rest Of) EP (additional remixes)
- True Faith 2001 (promo single with full artwork)
- Crystal
- 60 Miles An Hour
- Someone Like You
- Here To Stay
- Confusion '02
- Krafty
- Jetstream
- Waiting For The Sirens' Call
- Guilt Is A Useless Emotion (promo single with full artwork)
- Turn (plus 12x12 singles campaign) (promo single with full artwork)
This is fucking brilliant. Thank you ever so much.
It's a shame the "professionals" can't be bothered to do a job this nice. Here's hoping you get your chance to do this as an official release.
(and check your PMs)
Dear £50 Santa,
If we're all good this winter, could we possibly get one of these under our tree this year too?
Re-Member wrote: Dear £50 Santa,
If we're all good this winter, could we possibly get one of these under our tree this year too?
It's already been transcribed and it sounds amazing (although it's in mono). Stay tuned.
£50 Note wrote:
Re-Member wrote: Dear £50 Santa,
If we're all good this winter, could we possibly get one of these under our tree this year too?
It's already been transcribed and it sounds amazing (although it's in mono). Stay tuned.
great great news, my copy sounds awful, almost unlistenable. cant wait!
eskamiya wrote:
£50 Note wrote:
Re-Member wrote: Dear £50 Santa,
If we're all good this winter, could we possibly get one of these under our tree this year too?
It's already been transcribed and it sounds amazing (although it's in mono). Stay tuned.
Unfortunately that's how they all sound...unlistenable!
State Of The Nation (and possibly Bizarre Love Triangle) will be going up this weekend.
BLT includes the unique Canadian 7" mix.
Spent a lot of time meticulously (anally?) making the sleeves, burning CDs this weekend. They look and sound great! Just one thing £50 Note, as great as the CD labels are (and they are!), I had to rejig just about all of them in Photoshop so that the text & designs weren't chopped off by the range of the inner CD circle. Dunno if that's just my software though?
Anyway, if anyone's having a similar problem and can't be arsed messing with the labels as they are (and if £50 Note doesn't object), I can email you the altered versions.
M1 wrote: Spent a lot of time meticulously (anally?) making the sleeves, burning CDs this weekend. They look and sound great! Just one thing £50 Note, as great as the CD labels are (and they are!), I had to rejig just about all of them in Photoshop so that the text & designs weren't chopped off by the range of the inner CD circle. Dunno if that's just my software though?
When my friend and I started doing the designs (he did the labels for Ceremony, Procession, EGG, and Blue Monday) the idea was to use the type of adhesive labels that cover all the way to the center hole. About the time of Thieves Like Us I started making sure the text would fit on a standard label, so yes, there are a few that would require some adjusting, and no, I don't mind if you share.
When I get around to assembling my own set, I'll replace the labels in my Flickr stream with the adjusted ones.
Exactly!
I'll be picking mine up (the labels) this week.
Incidentally, I've been posting some concept art that'll be used in Recycle II in my Flickr stream.
I saw them on Flicker, nice covers. Concerning True faith 2001, why not using the red stripes from promo singles ? and also, the mixes listed on yout pic file (6) are the only ones you put, or you'll put also the remaing steir and pink noise mixes ? tx
The Recycle II singles are going to be very different, in that I'm not including every remix. Most of that stuff is still available and almost all of it appeared on CD. People will complain about my choices but I have a reason for handling it that way and I'll post about it before I start posting those singles...anyway, that's a long way off.
You can look at it this way:
New Order 1981-1990 (for Factory) = SACRED New Order 1991-2006 (post-Factory) = room for editorial decisions
The True Faith 2001 single might include the two other remixes from Rich Morel. I don't have them, nor does anyone else I know. We'll see if they turn up.
You position is totally right, 50poundnote. Anyway, there are tooo many remixes to really enjoy a complete london-era NO single. I only hope (from my point of view only) you would consider to include the tracks not included on the regular CD (US mixes, US promo, promo-only mixes, compilation tracks...), the real rare stuff. tx
oh, santa 50. I forgot. I'm can't wait for your TBTHOG version. I pray that you include the original version from Salvation and its 12" remix from Arthur Baker.
Hmmm, my cds are like the top one you suggest - must be my software (CD Label-Print) that cuts the centre. :(
bc2323 wrote: You position is totally right, 50poundnote. Anyway, there are tooo many remixes to really enjoy a complete london-era NO single. I only hope (from my point of view only) you would consider to include the tracks not included on the regular CD (US mixes, US promo, promo-only mixes, compilation tracks...), the real rare stuff. tx
oh, santa 50. I forgot. I'm can't wait for your TBTHOG version. I pray that you include the original version from Salvation and its 12" remix from Arthur Baker.
Yes, we'll definitely be including tracks that only appeared on vinyl. Promo mixes, not so much. There aren't many that didn't get a commercial release anyway.
The Salvation version of TBTHOG will be on the expanded listening disc from 1986-1987 because it never appeared on a single. I'm only aware of the standard 12" mix. If Arthur Baker did a mix from the Salvation version it's not listed in the discographies.
i was talking about this one (on Salvation CD) taken from niagara discography.
CD: GE 1988 (Interphon IPCD 2022-36) *** CD: JP 1988 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor VDP-1345) *** CD: JP 1992 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor-JVC VICP-23032) *** 7:03 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) ** 7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/***
- An exclusive remix.
And i forgot the compilation-only tracks, like the Bias version of TBTHOG or the 96 mix of world in motion. those stand-alone tracks are nightmare to track down.
OK, i stop, you'll kill me.
bc2323 wrote: i was talking about this one (on Salvation CD) taken from niagara discography.
CD: GE 1988 (Interphon IPCD 2022-36) *** CD: JP 1988 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor VDP-1345) *** CD: JP 1992 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor-JVC VICP-23032) *** 7:03 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) ** 7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/***
- An exclusive remix.
And i forgot the compilation-only tracks, like the Bias version of TBTHOG or the 96 mix of world in motion. those stand-alone tracks are nightmare to track down.
OK, i stop, you'll kill me.
The track you're pointing out there is the Japan-only remix, which will also be on the 1986-1987 CD.
Don't worry, everything has been accounted for. Recycle is only the tracks that appeared on singles. Everything else will be on companion CDs for each album.
£50 Note wrote:
You can look at it this way:
New Order 1981-1990 (for Factory) = SACRED New Order 1991-2006 (post-Factory) = room for editorial decisions
I am really glad you will not be including every single remix. Someone a few years ago posted a possible Recycle listing, and it was ridiculous, especially the 1990s/2000s stuff, like 30-50 remixes per song.... bleh
Would be great for you guys to roleplay a bit, for the 90s/00s singles, what Gretton et al would have put on the singles had the same 1980s factory style extended to every LP/Single. ???
But I am sure you already have a plan, just my 2 cents....
Um, I hate to be devil's advocate but isn't doing the more recent London/Warners era a bit overkill and/or risky? Despite it's own illegalities the reasoning behind the '81 - '89 Factory stuff not available on CD could be understood but as for '93 onwards? I'm not seeing the need personally and it's up to fans from whatever era to make the effort and dip their hand in their own pocket. Noble intentions aside, you will basically be making a lot of the band's more recent recordings available for free.
All the CD singles from the Republic era onwards are there to be had for a few quid each no matter where you are in the world. Yes there are a few obscure promo mixes tucked away here and there but these are still heavily copyrighted to both the band and their label. Some are still easily available to buy over Amazon or retailers like that.
Personally, whatever I may or may not agree with regarding New Order's music being posted for free it would be wise to remember these forums are public.
This doesn't detract from the nice technical job you and your mates carried out on the Factory era. There is no debating the high quality of the sound and care taken with the sleeves. However, I personally download them safe in the knowledge I own all the original vinyl and in some cases numerous times over.
A lot of people don't and are rejoicing at freebie central.
I do not worry, never, just thrilled. I forgot about companion discs. now i shut up and don't speak about future. As Ally said, it's public here.
£50 Note wrote:
bc2323 wrote: i was talking about this one (on Salvation CD) taken from niagara discography.
CD: GE 1988 (Interphon IPCD 2022-36) *** CD: JP 1988 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor VDP-1345) *** CD: JP 1992 (Crepuscule Au Japon/Victor-JVC VICP-23032) *** 7:03 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) ** 7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/***
- An exclusive remix.
And i forgot the compilation-only tracks, like the Bias version of TBTHOG or the 96 mix of world in motion. those stand-alone tracks are nightmare to track down.
OK, i stop, you'll kill me.
The track you're pointing out there is the Japan-only remix, which will also be on the 1986-1987 CD.
Don't worry, everything has been accounted for. Recycle is only the tracks that appeared on singles. Everything else will be on companion CDs for each album.
I'll try to help you guys.
The Salvation! CD I have (IPCD 2022-36) has the original (september 1986) version of TBTHOG, which is 5:02min.
On this CD, besides some New Order instrumentals, there is also a so called 'Remixed Version' (track 14) of TBTHOG which is 8:00min. and is not the same as Touched By The Hand Of Dub which is the B-side of the Factory 12 inch and is shorter.
I hope you'll be aware of it, but I have true faith in you.
Now here's my question about this soundtrack: is there a clean version of Let's Go (which is an instrumental on this Salvation! CD), because mine starts at low volume and the left channel seems out of control for about 1:45min. The track is 3:44min.
It seems that the Collectors Edition of Low Life (together with Retro CD 5) used a shorter version (is it the same?!) of this.
Ally wrote: Um, I hate to be devil's advocate but isn't doing the more recent London/Warners era a bit overkill and/or risky?
Everything post-Factory is speculation at this point. I don't want to take any money away from the band, but they don't make a dime off used copies of CD singles. Once you get into the 00's there are promo items that weren't commercially available anyway.
I'm getting ahead of myself by talking beyond 1990. That's a long way off, if it does happen.
M1 wrote: Hmmm, my cds are like the top one you suggest - must be my software (CD Label-Print) that cuts the centre. :(
Maybe there is an option somewhere that lets you set the inner and outer diameter? 
Luke wrote: Now here's my question about this soundtrack: is there a clean version of Let's Go (which is an instrumental on this Salvation! CD), because mine starts at low volume and the left channel seems out of control for about 1:45min. The track is 3:44min.
All versions of "Let's Go" (on all formats of Salvation) have the same problem. I remember swapping the Vinyl LP twice in my local Our Price because I thought it was something wrong with the record! :p
The CD versions (well, the Japanese and German versions, anyway) still have the channel swapping...
Let's Go on the Low-Life remaster bonus disc sounds slightly better, almost as if someone had a go at fixing it...
It was on Flickr. Someone set up an account just to leave a comment about the artwork being forged, not restored. We've not put all this work into the audio only to have the artwork be crappy jpegs of bent sleeves. Everything was scanned and cleaned up, then (when possible) all of the type was reset using the original fonts.
The metallic sleeve for The Perfect Kiss would not photograph, scan, or piece together well, so it's a fake - done entirely in Photoshop. 90% of the people seeing it wouldn't know if I didn't tell them.
...and the people in charge of official "restored" artwork couldn't tell, even if you added random typographical errors to the mix, like incorrect fonts and spaces.
Nick King wrote:
Luke wrote: Now here's my question about this soundtrack: is there a clean version of Let's Go (which is an instrumental on this Salvation! CD), because mine starts at low volume and the left channel seems out of control for about 1:45min. The track is 3:44min.
All versions of "Let's Go" (on all formats of Salvation) have the same problem. I remember swapping the Vinyl LP twice in my local Our Price because I thought it was something wrong with the record! :p
The CD versions (well, the Japanese and German versions, anyway) still have the channel swapping...
I remember the song Skullcrusher sounding very muddy as well. I think it was actually in mono. Aside from the NO & Cabaret Voltaire tunes, that wasn't a particularly good soundtrack. Even the Arthur Baker tune sounded really stale compared to some of the other stuff he's produced.
These are absolutely fantastic and in my view the closest thing we've had to something being done in the spirit of Factory for a long, long time.
You should be in charge of the remasters... actually...
Centre Date should GIVE you the masters to look after!!!
Really great job and keep them coming :)
£50 Note wrote:
I'm getting ahead of myself by talking beyond 1990. That's a long way off, if it does happen.
Indeed... I'm gonna need a long break once we get through this!
£50 Note wrote: State Of The Nation (and possibly Bizarre Love Triangle) will be going up this weekend.
BLT includes the unique Canadian 7" mix.
Just to give everyone an update...
-- We've hit a bit of a roadblock with BLT (which is quite a surprise; we'd both figured this would be an easy one). The US CD single we had planned to use as a source turned out to be an early casualty of the loudness wars. Yuck. I don't have this particular 12", and couldn't find one locally, so 50 is sending me his by mail.
-- The supposedly-unique Canadian 7" version is a myth. It's identical to the UK 7" version (which is not only an edit, but a different mix from both the LP and 12"). I've got two copies of each 7" here -- mine, and 50's -- and they all play exactly the same version. The only thing unique about the Canadian 7" is the gatefold sleeve.
Bruno Republic wrote:
-- The supposedly-unique Canadian 7" version is a myth.
Are you sure? My UK & CDN sound different - completely different intro for a start...
Old Blue wrote:
Are you sure? My UK & CDN sound different - completely different intro for a start...
Yes, I synced them up and they matched exactly.
If yours are different, which one starts off sounding like the LP version -- synth bass solo'd, but with additional chorus or flanging compared to the LP mix?
This is looking like a similar situation to TPK, where the 7" version was changed at some point.
FAC 163 7 A 1 is the regular UK 7" version - begins with bass sequencer just like the album version (and live versions up to 1993). It's also the last track on the US 12" and CD single.
FAC 26 A 2 (Canadian gatefold) omits the bass intro and starts with a drum fill. I believe this edit is also on the US 7" (at least the promo)? At least it seems this version is unique to North America?
Bruno, are you saying there is a FAC 26 A 1 which has the UK 7" mix instead?
indiearchivist wrote:
Bruno, are you saying there is a FAC 26 A 1 which has the UK 7" mix instead?
Yes. And this now throws yet another wrench into our plans.
I'll double-check my other copy tonight, but I recall them having the same dead-wax inscription and thus they'd have the same material.
I really hope this Canadian version is just an edit and not a unique mix (like the UK 7"), because Canadian 7" singles were not made to very high standards and (assuming I can find one) I don't think I can get it to sound very good.
Okay, I'm being diplomatic there. Canadian *LPs* were not made to very high standards; Canadian 7" singles were total crap.
Okay, I can confirm this much: What I presume is the first edition of the Canadian single has FAC-26A in the deadwax, and plays the UK 7" mix.
So, the "unique" Canadian version has FAC-26A-2 or something similar?
Goodness.....gracious......great.......balls.......of......
........
50 quid man, this is absolutely AWESOME the work you have put into to this project here. Truly, utterly, magnificently stunning stuff!
It's been a very long time since I last had anything to smile about when having a quick peep into Digital Republic but you sir, have just made my day, chancing a look on the link that displays all of the CD sleeve artwork reproductions you have there. Meticulous work and something those useless oiks that run Warners should take a good long hard look at if only to understand what PROPER quality control is all about.
I never bought those 2CD collectors editions after reading the horrible reviews that were posted here from folk, and that also explained my recent absence from posting here because I simply lost interest. Even now with the 180gsm vinyl reissues it's the same old rubbishy story. I dunno why Rhino and the rest bother if all they can keep doing is insulting New Order's fans with such tawdry garbage.
It's just sad that no official release of this sort of thing is going to happen and it takes a devoted fan to attempt to redress the balance. As an art teacher myself, I sure know the aesthetic values of good packaging and bad packaging. Sadly, Warners have resolutely failed in the former on all counts ever since......well, you know the rest.
I take my hat off to you sir.
I found this thread about a week ago and have been listening to the mp3s from the blog for the last few days.
Excellent work £50 and Bruno Republic. Simply exceptional. The remastering isgreat and loads of stuff I couldn't get on CD.
This is the way it should have been done.
If anyone had any sense they'd put you guys in charge of NO's back catalogue.
Just thought I'd throw this out there: What about the versions on the soundtracks to Married To The Mob, Threesome - or the Stephen Hague Mix on the Factory Tape?
Are these definitely NOT the versions you're looking for? I thought these were fairly unique versions?
or THIS commercial US 7" release that runs at 3:36? http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1710973
or THIS promotional US 7" has has the same mix on the A/B sides? http://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Bizarre-Love-Triangle/release/1710965
synthpopfan wrote: Just thought I'd throw this out there: What about the versions on the soundtracks to Married To The Mob, Threesome - or the Stephen Hague Mix on the Factory Tape?
Recyle is just the tracks that appeared on the original Factory singles, and nothing else. That's why the original mix of Shellshock - which appeared on the soundtrack to Pretty In Pink - isn't bundled with the Shellshock single. HOWEVER, once we've posted all 20 (ending with World In Motion), you'll see the following:
New Order Factory Irregulars
- Additional Listening 1980-1981
- Additional Listening 1982-1983
- Additional Listening 1984-1985
- Additional Listening 1986-1987
- Additional Listening 1988-1990
Each disc is about an hour-long collection of rare, soundtrack, compilation, demo, and live material. There's a significant amount of material that's never been released. They also come with full artwork that compliments each studio album.
At that point the Recyle blog will contain everything the band recorded between 1980-1990 in remastered form, except for the studio albums, because they're still in print.
I kinda forgot about the rules of the game. ;) Plus, I became a little over-excited with trying to help out.
New Order Factory Irregulars? Good grief man! You'll have unofficially released MORE than the band have released officially!
synthpopfan wrote: New Order Factory Irregulars? Good grief man! You'll have unofficially released MORE than the band have released officially!
I think of it as the box set Retro should have been, or what the 2-disc reissues could be if they'd released a singles box the way Gretton intended.
£50 Note wrote:
synthpopfan wrote: Just thought I'd throw this out there: What about the versions on the soundtracks to Married To The Mob, Threesome - or the Stephen Hague Mix on the Factory Tape?
Recyle is just the tracks that appeared on the original Factory singles, and nothing else. That's why the original mix of Shellshock - which appeared on the soundtrack to Pretty In Pink - isn't bundled with the Shellshock single. HOWEVER, once we've posted all 20 (ending with World In Motion), you'll see the following:
New Order Factory Irregulars
- Additional Listening 1980-1981
- Additional Listening 1982-1983
- Additional Listening 1984-1985
- Additional Listening 1986-1987
- Additional Listening 1988-1990
Each disc is about an hour-long collection of rare, soundtrack, compilation, demo, and live material. There's a significant amount of material that's never been released. They also come with full artwork that compliments each studio album.
At that point the Recyle blog will contain everything the band recorded between 1980-1990 in remastered form, except for the studio albums, because they're still in print.
You are fookin' kidding me!!
I have really died & gone to New Order heaven!:D
You guys should seriously be knighted.I'm not kidding
Amazing job... Thankyou again (as i've said earlier before)... Probably through my own stuidity, I don't know how to print the sleeves at the right size...
Any help? (I did follow the instructions)...
Hi Mr Note... I downloaded a trial version of Photoshop CS4... I've only ever used it to try and print the covers...
Thanx for the speedy reply...
http://www.coverxp.com/main.asp
Try this lil program ..resizes your covers/pics to fit both front and back jewel cases inc spines etc
I've done all the artwork in Photoshop on a Mac, so there wouldn't be any compatibility issues. There might be a step missing somewhere. Can you tell me step by step what you're doing?
Are they printing too big or too small?
Send me a direct e-mail and we'll take this off-thread - jeb at 50poundnote dot com.
Re-Member wrote: Sounds amazing so far, although I'm shocked Negative One hasn't commented yet with a bunch of graphs and lists of missing edits to prove we're all wrong for enjoying it.
The pictures on Flickr showing how to create the CD cases had me laughing. Talk about perfection.
thats because i'm too busy enjoying the great work!!!!
this is excellent, keep it up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but seriously, yeah, they're not FLAC's, and since they're compressed....(ok, i'll be quiet now)..
be seeing you +1
thanks 50P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anyway, onto the missing edits...
about BLT:
bizarre love triangle 4:20 v, cd, cs
bizarre love triangle (7" edit #1) 3:40 v
bizarre love triangle (7" edit #2) 3:23 v
bizarre love triangle (10" acetate) 3:36 v
bizarre love triangle (12") 6:44 v, cd, cs
bizarre love triangle (best of) 3:51 v, cd, cs
bizarre love triangle (extended edit) 4:58 v
bizarre love triangle
(married to the mob) 3:54 v, cd, cs
bizarre love triangle (single remix) 3:44 v, cd
bizarre love triangle (threesome) 3:23 cd
yeah, you can ignore some of the 7" inch edits..
but the really interesting mix to me is the 'extended edit'... found here..
12": US 1986 (Qwest PRO-A-2636) [promo] 4:58 Bizarre Love Triangle (extended edit)
it's actually a pretty cool edit, that doesn't appear anywhere else..
be seeing you +1
The Married to the Mob version is the same as the version on the Select Magazine.
This was mixed at Advision Studios in London on March 18th, 1988.
I can verify this as I was there - myself and a few friends were interviewing Hooky for a fanzine in the performance area of the studio, whilst the rest of the band and Stephen Hague were listening to results of the mix in the booth.
-1 wrote:
yeah, you can ignore some of the 7" inch edits..
but the really interesting mix to me is the 'extended edit'... found here..
12": US 1986 (Qwest PRO-A-2636) [promo] 4:58 Bizarre Love Triangle (extended edit)
it's actually a pretty cool edit, that doesn't appear anywhere else..
be seeing you +1
Already on the US 12" promo (PRO-A-7622-A) Classic Trax on Wax vol.1, New Order/ "BLT" The Legendary Shep Pettibone Mixes
Side Two:
- Shep's 12" Alternate Mix 4:59
Bruno received my 12" copy of Bizarre Love Triangle and Old Blue's Canadian 7" mk2 version, so the audio is just about done. He'll address it when we upload it, but apparently the EQ on Bizarre Dub Triangle is all over the map.
I've got the artwork nearly done, so Recycle should resume shortly. The artwork for all the remaining singles is in various states of completion.
I haven't been tracking the stats for downloads from my own server, but there's only a small number of people (50-60) reading my personal blog who are interested (they are locked posts). For the MediaFire zip files linked in the Recycle blog, Ceremony has the most downloads with 785. Subculture, Temptation, and Shellshock are nos. 2, 3, and 4, and State Of The Nation comes in last with 492.
I think this shows there's certainly a market for a manufactured box set. Despite being so public I've not heard a peep in opposition from anyone official. 10,000 copies of The Smiths Singles Box were manufactured, at £30 apiece that nets the label £300,000/$600,000 - and that doesn't even include the limited vinyl edition. If they would just listen it would be a win-win situation for everyone involved and go a long way toward soothing all the ill will they fostered by botching the reissues.
£50 Note wrote: Bizarre Love Triangle is now online.
nice! downloading....
as usual, your notes rock! thanks again for all this.
I can't extend enough warmth and gratitude to our two friends across the pond for their expertise, knowledge, and love applied to this project.
I reckon Gretton and Wilson would be proud.
Rhino take note - if something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly.
Great to hear again that version of Bizarre Love Triangle that kicks in with the drums and omits the bass sequencer start (not to be confused with that other version that kicks in with the drums that appeared on that Select magazine free cassette in 1991 which was more of an album sounding edit by Hague). The copy i used to own i'd bought in a record shop in Birmingham around the summer of 1987. Gatefold sleeve and the centre of the 7" disc was cut out. Had to use one of those filler things on the turntable to hold the disc in place. It was Canadian only release? Can't remember that.
So no, that mix wasn't a myth. Old Blue, does your copy have the centre label of the disc cut out?
johnny wrote: Gatefold sleeve and the centre of the 7" disc was cut out. Had to use one of those filler things on the turntable to hold the disc in place. It was Canadian only release? Can't remember that.
Ha ha! That's how all 7" singles in North America are manufactured.
FYI, the little piece of plastic you put inside the center hole so it fits on the spindle is called a spider. :)
Ah yes i remember now it's called a spider. Rarely have to use them so had forgotten their proper name.
Top job! I thank the two of you once again!
I appreciate every single bit of your hard work, from the songs to the notes, very moving and emotional stuff
Thanks for these Recycle discs/projects. I really really like the quality. Besides that it's so nostalgic to hear all these classic songs again...
However, the last one, BLT, has 2 tracks where I can hear some clicks (track 3 at 2:51 and track 5 at 2:42/3), both just before the final refrains start. Perhaps this has something to do with the download?
I really hope the 'unique' video mix - my favourite version of BLT, will appear on another Recycle project in the future...
Thanks again £50, keep up the good work!
piliña wrote: Thanks for these Recycle discs/projects. I really really like the quality. Besides that it's so nostalgic to hear all these classic songs again...
However, the last one, BLT, has 2 tracks where I can hear some clicks (track 3 at 2:51 and track 5 at 2:42/3), both just before the final refrains start. Perhaps this has something to do with the download?
I really hope the 'unique' video mix - my favourite version of BLT, will appear on another Recycle project in the future...
Thanks again £50, keep up the good work!
The so called 'clicks' you mentioned 'audio-wise' are no real faults from the master. I know what you mean, I listened myself.
This was always there, even on the vinyl. It had to do with the cutting process for the (sometimes several) 7 inch versions at the time. More single-versions from the 80's and/or earlier were sometimes roughly cut from the master so that you can actually hear the 'process-in-the-making'. The single-cuts could have been made a bit 'smoother' here and there, I agree. But that Canadian remixed & re-edited mix is very well done musically speaking.
piliña wrote:
However, the last one, BLT, has 2 tracks where I can hear some clicks (track 3 at 2:51 and track 5 at 2:42/3), both just before the final refrains start. Perhaps this has something to do with the download?
No, it's just a bad edit, and part of the original recording. There are lots of bad edits in NO tracks, particularly 7" versions. The worst offender is probably MTO, which has such a clumsy edit that it sounds like the needle has jumped out of the groove.
Bruno Republic wrote:
piliña wrote:
However, the last one, BLT, has 2 tracks where I can hear some clicks (track 3 at 2:51 and track 5 at 2:42/3), both just before the final refrains start. Perhaps this has something to do with the download?
No, it's just a bad edit, and part of the original recording. There are lots of bad edits in NO tracks, particularly 7" versions.
On the US cd-maxi I got they've fixed this, as I can't hear it.
piliña wrote:
On the US cd-maxi I got they've fixed this, as I can't hear it.
Qwest 9 20546-2 doesn't have either of those versions. Is there some other US CD single?
1st time caller long time listener. Finally thought I should register to say thanks to you.
Just wanted to say:
a) thanks so much mr£50 you are doing a tremendous job - Rhino HIRE HIM.
b) You probably know this as you are an NO obsessive, but the 12" promo doublepack which came out in the UK of World In Motion remixes had longer versions of the mixes than were ever released officially (on CD single?) - I know because I have one half of the double pack (some guy who didn't even like NO nicked the other half in the Record Shop I was working in at the time not realising it was a double pack - I was always p!ssed off with him as splitting them up totally ruined its completeness!).
Bruno Republic wrote:
piliña wrote:
On the US cd-maxi I got they've fixed this, as I can't hear it.
Qwest 9 20546-2 doesn't have either of those versions. Is there some other US CD single?
The single remix/UK 7" remix is on my 1994 US cd-maxi of BLT... and there was also a promo including the 1986 single mix and the 1994 're-recording', both mentioned in the discography here.
piliña wrote:
The single remix/UK 7" remix is on my 1994 US cd-maxi of BLT...
Ah, so it is. The tracklisting on the sleeve implies it's the 7" of State of the Nation.
However, I hear the bad edit on this disc too.
I wonder if the band themselves are aware of the fact that the record company in charge of their back catalogue are doing such a lame job, whilst a couple of fans, in their SPARE TIME, and for no financial motive or aim, are doing justice to a project initiated by their sadly-missed manager.
How would you feel if the people who were taking a percentage from your sweat and toil over the years, were sitting on their fat arses ballsing things up on a regular basis, whilst your fans were showing them up with their efforts.
I'd be fucking annoyed.
bulgy_eyes wrote: 1st time caller long time listener. Finally thought I should register to say thanks to you.
Just wanted to say:
a) thanks so much mr£50 you are doing a tremendous job - Rhino HIRE HIM.
b) You probably know this as you are an NO obsessive, but the 12" promo doublepack which came out in the UK of World In Motion remixes had longer versions of the mixes than were ever released officially (on CD single?)
The Canadian CDsingle contains 6 tracks including 2 longer versions than the UK CDS.
£50 Note wrote: Bruno received my 12" copy of Bizarre Love Triangle and Old Blue's Canadian 7" mk2 version, so the audio is just about done. He'll address it when we upload it, but apparently the EQ on Bizarre Dub Triangle is all over the map.
I've got the artwork nearly done, so Recycle should resume shortly. The artwork for all the remaining singles is in various states of completion.
I haven't been tracking the stats for downloads from my own server, but there's only a small number of people (50-60) reading my personal blog who are interested (they are locked posts). For the MediaFire zip files linked in the Recycle blog, Ceremony has the most downloads with 785. Subculture, Temptation, and Shellshock are nos. 2, 3, and 4, and State Of The Nation comes in last with 492.
I think this shows there's certainly a market for a manufactured box set. Despite being so public I've not heard a peep in opposition from anyone official. 10,000 copies of The Smiths Singles Box were manufactured, at £30 apiece that nets the label £300,000/$600,000 - and that doesn't even include the limited vinyl edition. If they would just listen it would be a win-win situation for everyone involved and go a long way toward soothing all the ill will they fostered by botching the reissues.
Abso-fooking-lutely
....altho' not happy SOTN is last,I'm fookin' sure some of ye lot are deaf,it's a great tune
Emile Strunz wrote: I wonder if the band themselves are aware of the fact that the record company in charge of their back catalogue are doing such a lame job, whilst a couple of fans, in their SPARE TIME, and for no financial motive or aim, are doing justice to a project initiated by their sadly-missed manager.
How would you feel if the people who were taking a percentage from your sweat and toil over the years, were sitting on their fat arses ballsing things up on a regular basis, whilst your fans were showing them up with their efforts.
I'd be fucking annoyed.
Abso-fooking-lutely........part 2
bulgy_eyes wrote: You probably know this as you are an NO obsessive, but the 12" promo doublepack which came out in the UK of World In Motion remixes had longer versions of the mixes than were ever released officially
Yes.
The tracklist for WIM is:
- World In Motion…(4:40)
- World In Motion…(The B-side) (4:48)
- World In Motion…(Subbeto Mix) (5:08)
- World In Motion…(Subbeto Dub) (5:08)
- World In Motion…(Carabinieri Mix) (5:52)
- World In Motion…(No Alla Violenza Mix) (5:40)
Depending on the format, the mixes came in different lengths even though they share the same names. We'll do some double-checking when we get there, but this should be the full-length version of each mix.
Please check Recycle for an update.
BLT has been properly mastered and re-uploaded, so please delete your earlier files.
The Procession slipcase has been redesigned, and I've done alternate packaging for Ceremony so you can choose between green or blue and white.
£50 Note wrote:
bulgy_eyes wrote: You probably know this as you are an NO obsessive, but the 12" promo doublepack which came out in the UK of World In Motion remixes had longer versions of the mixes than were ever released officially
Yes.
The tracklist for WIM is:
- World In Motion…(4:40)
- World In Motion…(The B-side) (4:48)
- World In Motion…(Subbeto Mix) (5:08)
- World In Motion…(Subbeto Dub) (5:08)
- World In Motion…(Carabinieri Mix) (5:52)
- World In Motion…(No Alla Violenza Mix) (5:40)
Depending on the format, the mixes came in different lengths even though they share the same names. We'll do some double-checking when we get there, but this should be the full-length version of each mix.
Hi, is this the Subbuteo Dub with or without the vocal samples. I remember there were two different versions with the same name...
Didn't notice it before, but I'm hearing this strange swooping sound right in the beginning of "In a Lonely Place" (both 7" and original mix). You can hear it right before the first bass drum hits if you have the volume loud enough. Not sure if it's in the original recording, or the record needle causing it.
Re-Member wrote: Not sure if it's in the original recording, or the record needle causing it.
It's in the original recording.
£50 Note wrote: Bruno received my 12" copy of Bizarre Love Triangle and Old Blue's Canadian 7" mk2 version, so the audio is just about done. He'll address it when we upload it, but apparently the EQ on Bizarre Dub Triangle is all over the map.
Hi there £50 Note,
It feels so good to listen to all these classic tracks/versions in such a perfect quality, which I'm doing almost all day long now :-)
I can't wait to hear my first New Order 7", True Faith/1963, which I cannot play anymore because of too much playing :-) (I'm referring to the original 7" version, of course I do have the Substance 2CD!)
Am I right lot of the tracks were 'restored' from vinyl sources? If so, is there a chance the original 7" b/side of Shellshock, Thieves Like Us Instrumental (7" Edit), will be included on Recycle 11 one day?
piliña wrote: Am I right lot of the tracks were 'restored' from vinyl sources? If so, is there a chance the original 7" b/side of Shellshock, Thieves Like Us Instrumental (7" Edit), will be included on Recycle 11 one day?
Yes, half or more of the tracks came from vinyl...and the TLU edit is there:
- Shellshock
- Shellcock
- Thieves Like Us Instrumental '86
- Shellshock (7" Edit)
- Thieves Like Us Instrumental '86 (7" Edit)
If you're missing it you must have deleted it accidentally.
£50 Note,
You should send these to the band, they are just perfect! I hope they release it someday with the same care that you are taking and hopefully remastered from the master tapes!
steinomite wrote: One question for £50 Note - for the tracks being sourced from "Substance" for your project, did you consider using the DAT copy of the album (FACT 200D)? Would be curious to hear how the sound quality compares to the CD.
Even if you can find a copy of the DAT it's expensive on the collectors' market (I don't know anyone who owns one).
Who still owns a DAT player?
I still have the "Substance" DAT in my collection, along with the five other releases in the DAT format on Factory (Technique, Substance 1977 - 1980, Bummed, Vini Reilly, and Guitar & Other Machines).
Wasn't trying to criticize, just figured all the studio/sound designer guys still had DAT players and recorders since the format is still actively used in studios.
-Mike
I also own the Substance DAT but - yup, you guessed it - no DAT player; it's shrink wrapped anyway and I have no plans to unwrap.
I did read somewhere eons ago (hence this could be completely wrong) that the Factory DATs were recorded at more or less the same quality level as the CDs. They didn't bother taking advantage of the full potential of the format or something so I would guess the quality difference is more or less identical to the CDs. DAT is capable of 48khz?
I'm still looking for Technique.
Ally wrote: I also own the Substance DAT but - yup, you guessed it - no DAT player; it's shrink wrapped anyway and I have no plans to unwrap.
I did read somewhere eons ago (hence this could be completely wrong) that the Factory DATs were recorded at more or less the same quality level as the CDs. They didn't bother taking advantage of the full potential of the format or something so I would guess the quality difference is more or less identical to the CDs. DAT is capable of 48khz?
I'm still looking for Technique.
They're probably 44.1k/16bit like any CD, so I would guess they sound the same.
Even if they were 48k you'd have to convert that to 44.1k and that might introduce jitter errors. Probably not worth it since 48k isn't too much better than 44.1k and you might even degrade it with the extra conversion.
steinomite wrote:
Wasn't trying to criticize, just figured all the studio/sound designer guys still had DAT players and recorders since the format is still actively used in studios.
Huh? DAT is dead. Nobody has made the decks in years.
Bruno Republic wrote:
steinomite wrote:
Wasn't trying to criticize, just figured all the studio/sound designer guys still had DAT players and recorders since the format is still actively used in studios.
Huh? DAT is dead. Nobody has made the decks in years.
Well, only relatively recently (2005) - which begs the question of what happens to all the stuff that has been recorded onto DAT over the years...
That's a massive conversion job that probably has to be done sooner rather than later! :p
johnny james wrote:
They're probably 44.1k/16bit like any CD, so I would guess they sound the same.
Even if they were 48k you'd have to convert that to 44.1k and that might introduce jitter errors. Probably not worth it since 48k isn't too much better than 44.1k and you might even degrade it with the extra conversion.
If I remember correctly (it's been over 20 years since there was any talk about pre-recorded DAT tapes), the plan was that all decks could read 44.1 or 48. Pre-recorded ones were made @ 44.1KHz, while consumer decks would record only @ 48Khz. I *think* most pro decks could record at either rate.
I remember there was a huge discussion about potential piracy from DAT, with various copy protection schemes being suggested (like one which put a narrow but deep frequency notch in the audio signal) before SCMS was chosen. In any event it made no difference, as the high cost of DAT pretty much killed any chance it had to be a successful consumer format.
Nick King wrote:
Well, only relatively recently (2005) - which begs the question of what happens to all the stuff that has been recorded onto DAT over the years...
That's a massive conversion job that probably has to be done sooner rather than later! :p
Indeed... the format is not known for reliability (which brings us back to the point that even if we had the Substance DAT and a deck, there's no guarantee it would play properly... or at all!)
Massive congrats and heartfelt thanks to the guys responsible for such an exhaustive, detailed and comprehensive job. I sincerely hope (and expect) Warners to be suitably embarrassed when two fans who know what they're doing (and actually care) can produce something that a) other fans really appreciate and actually want to own, and b) makes their own miserable efforts look like they were done by first year students. Well done guys, your efforts are genuinely recognised by real NO fans on here.
... not the first or last person on this thread to send my heart-felt thanks for all the care and devotion you've put into this project ...
Peter
For those who have Factory DAT tapes, the decks are going for less on eBay than the tapes generally. Search for Tascam DA-20 (a good and usually reliable pro-deck)
cheers JJ have technique, never played it, but it wasn't sealed when i bought it from the shop
is there anything different about the versions on the DAT?
just checked & there are 2 for bidding & one at buy it now for £179.00
take it that's an overinflated price?
If you look at completed items it seems it's possible to get a DA-20 for around £50-70. There are probably other decks worth getting but I've had one of these for years and it's great.
Though in the computer era it gets used less and less, never for recording anymore, just playback of existing stuff (for transfer onto hard disk). DAT has been totally superceded by computers in every possible way.
Just wanted to say: Fantastic project, thanks a lot for this!!! Everyone who has ever tried to transfer vinyl to digital media with professional results knows how much work this is. The remastering is immculate, better than all the official best ofs, reissues and other compilations around.
Max
£50 Note wrote:
piliña wrote: Am I right lot of the tracks were 'restored' from vinyl sources? If so, is there a chance the original 7" b/side of Shellshock, Thieves Like Us Instrumental (7" Edit), will be included on Recycle 11 one day?
Yes, half or more of the tracks came from vinyl...and the TLU edit is there:
- Shellshock
- Shellcock
- Thieves Like Us Instrumental '86
- Shellshock (7" Edit)
- Thieves Like Us Instrumental '86 (7" Edit)
If you're missing it you must have deleted it accidentally.
Yep, I somehow missed it, it was still in the zip-file :-)
£50 Note wrote: True Faith is up.
Hi £50 Note,
Again another wonderful Recycle disc. Thanks!
Is it correct that your UK 7" edit is in fact a re-edit of the 12" version? Unlike this version my 7" copy has the same first beat (without echo) as the 12". Also the 7" doesn't have the well-known glitches.
(I almost hate myself for writing this, but as you've spent so much hours and energy in this project I can imagine you want it to be perfect...)
costello wrote: i'm still checking for updates on a daily basis.
love your work.
We're in the process of doing QA on the fixed True Faith bundle right now. Hopefully it'll go up this weekend, and I'll post TBTHOG soon after because of the delay.
Thank you once again - it feels like a new release every time I download the latest upload - bring on TBTHOG!!!
Hélène's friend wrote: 08 True Faith (The Morning Sun Edit).m4a seems to be corrupted.
It's fixed now.
Given who we are and where we speak to one another, this might be a bit of a strange thing to say, but...
Have you HEARD True Faith? It's fantastic!
Wow, True Faith sounds much clearer than the Substance pressing. Sounds like 1963 has more reverb in the vocals too.
Just a note: I was playing all the singles back to back and noticed that Procession starts a second later than all the other tracks. Aside from that, everything sounds great. Looking forward to Run 2 and all the World in Motion mixes.
Re-Member wrote: Just a note: I was playing all the singles back to back and noticed that Procession starts a second later than all the other tracks.
The synth pad they're using on that song has a soft start (a bit of a fade-in, not like banging on a piano). It's to ensure nothing is lost.
This is absolutely magnificent work guys. We've all said it, but this simply sounds amazing.
My deepest thanks-Looking forward to hearing the rest.
just like to add my thanks as well. I'm downloading them and then converting to mp3 but they still sound spiffing and better than the various, scratched vinyl/dying tape/knackered cd versions i have. you really need to get a life though.....:)
Thanks man, these are brilliant. I keep checking everyday, looking forward to the next update
john carrington wrote: just like to add my thanks as well. I'm downloading them and then converting to mp3
You realize that's like making a copy of a copy, right? The resulting MP3s won't sound very good.
The M4A format sounds better than MP3, which is why we went that route (plus the fact that both of us use Macs). I'd advise you not to convert those files to anything else, unless you really don't care about fidelity.
£50 Note wrote:
john carrington wrote: just like to add my thanks as well. I'm downloading them and then converting to mp3
You realize that's like making a copy of a copy, right? The resulting MP3s won't sound very good.
The M4A format sounds better than MP3, which is why we went that route (plus the fact that both of us use Macs). I'd advise you not to convert those files to anything else, unless you really don't care about fidelity.
oh i realise its not the done thing, but they still sound superb. i've compared them to some of my originals and your M4A's and they're fine otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. probably not up to audio buff standards but no noticeable deteriation to my ears on my hi-fi. kept the M4A on the pc natch
john carrington wrote: oh i realise its not the done thing, but they still sound superb. i've compared them to some of my originals and your M4A's and they're fine otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. probably not up to audio buff standards but no noticeable deteriation to my ears on my hi-fi. kept the M4A on the pc natch
Much to my surprise, we've not heard a peep from anyone official about this project - either positive or negative. They're certainly aware of it, so I'm assuming the silence=consent. Once we've finished all 20 singles and given the record label a poke to say "hey, we did all the work for you - please manufacture this box set" I might just release the FLAC sets into the wild.
Oh, and, if I got a life you wouldn't have all this music to listen to in pristene condition.
£50 Note wrote:
john carrington wrote: oh i realise its not the done thing, but they still sound superb. i've compared them to some of my originals and your M4A's and they're fine otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. probably not up to audio buff standards but no noticeable deteriation to my ears on my hi-fi. kept the M4A on the pc natch
Much to my surprise, we've not heard a peep from anyone official about this project - either positive or negative. They're certainly aware of it, so I'm assuming the silence=consent. Once we've finished all 20 singles and given the record label a poke to say "hey, we did all the work for you - please manufacture this box set" I might just release the FLAC sets into the wild.
Oh, and, if I got a life you wouldn't have all this music to listen to in pristene condition.
whoah !!! careful there.. i did another project where we distributed cd's and artwork/and such, but that was on the mailing list...
you might want to keep that to just pm's and not online..
later -1
"True Dub" is other-worldly here.... Pull this latest batch down for this alone - you will NOT be disappointed!
I hadn't got a clue about this, being away from the site on erm... "a break".
Comments I've heard today have suddenly fallen into place...
john carrington wrote: just like to add my thanks as well. I'm downloading them and then converting to mp3...
Why? Most everything nowadays plays AAC/MP4. Even my ghetto cell phone does. It's not some esoteric proprietary format.
drewc wrote: "True Dub" is other-worldly here.... Pull this latest batch down for this alone - you will NOT be disappointed!
Have not heard this in years. :)
Is it know for sure who is singing at the 4:45 to 5:30 mark in "True Dub"?
0_o wrote: Is it know for sure who is singing at the 4:45 to 5:30 mark in "True Dub"?
Here is what Stephen Hague had to say about the making of 'True Faith': It didn't have much in the way of backing vocals — Barney and I both sang the high octave part on the chorus, and he was fairly quick with whatever vocals he did. And here's more of it: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/classictracks.htm
cheers,
|cv|
Chris Nash wrote: Comments I've heard today have suddenly fallen into place...
Care to elaborate?
Hooky said something in a recent interview about bootleggers being the worry that kept him awake at night. Why that comment, why now? My suspicion is he meant Recycle because there are not a lot of high profile unauthorized releases at the moment (except for the Hannett tapes CDs).
We can't be blamed for poor sales of the reissues because the label screwed that up all by themselves. People WANT to buy a quality product, but a quality product is not what was offered.
No one is making a dime off this project, but the support has been universal in that if it were manufactured, people would buy it.
I sincerely hope that Hooky, Barney, Stephen, and Gillian understand that we're not trying to take anything away from them. There are hundreds of thousands of people all over the world who have an emotional investment in New Order's music, and they just want to listen to it and enjoy it in a way that is befitting of the band's legacy, and also befitting of the audio quality that's available in 2009.
Like I said, I've not heard a peep from anyone official about Recycle, but it's not like I'm hard to find - I use the same handle all over the web, including my own website, and there's an e-mail link right on the front page.
FWIW, Ceremony has been downloaded the most, at just under 1500 times - and that's just by people who were savvy enough to find it on the web. Can you imagine if Recycle was available in the shops? A run of 3000-4000 20-disc boxes priced at £100 is a substantial profit for the band.
If the re-issues had been done well.... and if they'd now withdraw all the 'faulty' copies and replace them in stores with the corrected versions - and make it clear these were the new versions - I'd go out today and buy the lot, despite having all the originals on every format.
BUT... they haven't. So I won't.
So... Re-Cycle it is.
You're doing a fantastic job, guys!
Are you considering doeing the same with the original albums?
I wish somebody would also do the same with old Pet Shop Boys 12" singles, most of which were never released on CD, e.g. Left to my own devices (the disco mix), It's allright (12" and 10" extended mixes), Always on my mind (12" remix)...
Ben wrote: I wish somebody would also do the same with old Pet Shop Boys 12" singles, most of which were never released on CD
E-mail me.
Hooky said something in a recent interview about bootleggers being the worry that kept him awake at night. Why that comment, why now? My suspicion is he meant Recycle because there are not a lot of high profile unauthorized releases at the moment (except for the Hannett tapes CDs).
Hooky seems more interested in Hacienda related bootlegs since that is something that is directly his alone.
Strangely he also seems to have reconnected with the worst band bootlegger, Chris Hewitt.
Ben wrote: I wish somebody would also do the same with old Pet Shop Boys 12" singles, most of which were never released on CD, e.g. Left to my own devices (the disco mix), It's allright (12" and 10" extended mixes), Always on my mind (12" remix)...
And i wish someone did the same with saint etienne also !
Ben wrote:
I wish somebody would also do the same with old Pet Shop Boys 12" singles, most of which were never released on CD, e.g. Left to my own devices (the disco mix), It's allright (12" and 10" extended mixes), Always on my mind (12" remix)...
Almost all the regular PSB 12" have been released onto cd, especially the ones you've mentioned above... some are hard to find, but still... or you can always look for the Aurally CD's...
bc2323 wrote:
And i wish someone did the same with saint etienne also !
Sarah Cracknell recently mentioned that all the Saint Etienne albums will be re-released with bonus material. Not sure this already has happened though...
£50 Note wrote:
Ben wrote: I wish somebody would also do the same with old Pet Shop Boys 12" singles, most of which were never released on CD
E-mail me.
Done!
piliña wrote:
bc2323 wrote:
And i wish someone did the same with saint etienne also !
Sarah Cracknell recently mentioned that all the Saint Etienne albums will be re-released with bonus material. Not sure this already has happened though...
piliña wrote:
Almost all the regular PSB 12" have been released onto cd, especially the ones you've mentioned above... some are hard to find, but still... or you can always look for the Aurally CD's...
Regular 12"s yes, but many remix singles have never been issued on CD. The Aurally bootlegs are needle-drops which have been cleaned-up (better than lousy MP3s, but still not as good quality as proper CD). There are scores of promo-only mixes which have only appeared on scarce vinyl pressings which go for over $100 now.
Bruno Republic wrote:
john carrington wrote: just like to add my thanks as well. I'm downloading them and then converting to mp3...
Why? Most everything nowadays plays AAC/MP4. Even my ghetto cell phone does. It's not some esoteric proprietary format.
well my expensive but old hi-fi doesn't play them. I have 99% of these tracks anyway. this just allows me to put the tracks i want, in the order i want, on a cd. If i wanted to do the same currently i'd be switching between vinyl/cd/tape like a madman, and some of them aren't the best quality now they're 20 odd years old
£50 Note wrote:
john carrington wrote: oh i realise its not the done thing, but they still sound superb. i've compared them to some of my originals and your M4A's and they're fine otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. probably not up to audio buff standards but no noticeable deteriation to my ears on my hi-fi. kept the M4A on the pc natch
Much to my surprise, we've not heard a peep from anyone official about this project - either positive or negative. They're certainly aware of it, so I'm assuming the silence=consent. Once we've finished all 20 singles and given the record label a poke to say "hey, we did all the work for you - please manufacture this box set" I might just release the FLAC sets into the wild.
Oh, and, if I got a life you wouldn't have all this music to listen to in pristene condition.
well this is a tricky one. On the one hand i don't begrudge new order looking after their rights musically, especially since they've been less strict than 99% of other bands. On the other hand, like a lot of people on here i suspect, i have all the 12" singles anyway on vinyl, plus versions of all the albums on 3 or 4 different formats, so i did my bit helping to keep the Hacienda open:) FLACs may be a step too far though, considering new order licenced these recordings to people who obviously paid money to make money.
And don't get me wrong i'm glad you haven't got a life. Just shocked at the level of perfectionism - i would have given up, and gone down the pub.
Yes, they did. 50 euros in french shops (each). But i was more thinking of the singles. Try to find the remixes 12" at a fair price outside UK.
Bruno Republic wrote:
piliña wrote:
Almost all the regular PSB 12" have been released onto cd, especially the ones you've mentioned above... some are hard to find, but still... or you can always look for the Aurally CD's...
Regular 12"s yes, but many remix singles have never been issued on CD. The Aurally bootlegs are needle-drops which have been cleaned-up (better than lousy MP3s, but still not as good quality as proper CD). There are scores of promo-only mixes which have only appeared on scarce vinyl pressings which go for over $100 now.
And don't count mixes only available on white label or tapes like the remaining Kevin Saunderson mixes of Go West, morales long remix of IDKWYW, etc.
£50 Note wrote:
FWIW, Ceremony has been downloaded the most, at just under 1500 times - and that's just by people who were savvy enough to find it on the web. Can you imagine if Recycle was available in the shops? A run of 3000-4000 20-disc boxes priced at £100 is a substantial profit for the band.
That doesn't surprise me, since the original recording of Ceremony is probably the most difficult-to-obtain and desireable thing in the entire set.
With physical media sales continuing to erode, the only thing people will still pay for are quality niche items. Witness the unexpected popularity of the recent Beatles mono box set -- a top-notch job in terms of sound quality and packaging, with incredible attention to detail right down to the typesetting on the spines and how the sleeves are folded -- or the Pet Shop Boys 11 x 12" edition of Yes: very expensive, limited to 300 copies, and sold out before it was even officially announced.
Personally, I'd fold the two BNL singles into the regular Factory releases (EGG + Procession, TLU + Murder) to make it 18 discs. This would allow the option of splitting it up into 3 x 6CD sets. Then again, at this point it would probably make most sense to put it all in one box, since the only people who are buying now are the collectors who want everything.
Bruno Republic wrote: Personally, I'd fold the two BNL singles into the regular Factory releases (EGG + Procession, TLU + Murder) to make it 18 discs. This would allow the option of splitting it up into 3 x 6CD sets. Then again, at this point it would probably make most sense to put it all in one box, since the only people who are buying now are the collectors who want everything.
Ah, but you're forgetting something - to many people, the packaging is equally as important as the music. If this is going to be a specialty/niche product, then why not pull out all the stops? Include all 20 singles, the alternate sleeve for Ceremony, a book, some badges, and a slightly more inclusive edition that's been autographed by each of the four prinicples. People (me included) would pay a lot of money for something like that. The most deluxe version of Pixies' forthcoming Minotaur box will sell for $450, and the audio isn't even remastered.
£50 Note wrote:
Bruno Republic wrote: Personally, I'd fold the two BNL singles into the regular Factory releases (EGG + Procession, TLU + Murder) to make it 18 discs. This would allow the option of splitting it up into 3 x 6CD sets. Then again, at this point it would probably make most sense to put it all in one box, since the only people who are buying now are the collectors who want everything.
Ah, but you're forgetting something - to many people, the packaging is equally as importnat as the music.
I'd still include that. The Ceremony 7" sleeve could be the inner for EGG, and Murder could be the inner for TLU, or perhaps as a gatefold, since they nicely match.
Another option would be to package the discs in a 12" size box, and include a booklet with full-size reproductions of the original sleeves. Isn't the Kraftwerk box set like this? (I honestly don't know, I haven't seen it yet)
Don't know about anyone else, but bring on TBTHOG.
I still remember buying the 12" just before my GCSEs in May 88, and then buying the CD gatefold single from HMV in Newcastle in the summer.
I also had the Saville 'ladders' design T-shirt.
Anyway, TBTHOG probably sealed the deal with me and New Order - a long, lasting, satisfying love affair.
I can't wait to hear what £50 note and Bruno have done with the package
Bruno Republic wrote: Another option would be to package the discs in a 12" size box, and include a booklet with full-size reproductions of the original sleeves. Isn't the Kraftwerk box set like this? (I honestly don't know, I haven't seen it yet)
The promo copy I got in '05 was a 5" square about 2" deep.
The Palatine box set was sized as a 12" square. A plastic mold in the box could hold 4 compartments of 5 CDs each, with room on top for a large book. That would look fantastic.
£50 Note wrote:
The promo copy I got in '05 was a 5" square about 2" deep.
Seems they've turned things up a notch. Go to http://klingklang.de/ and click on the Der Katalog icon, and it looks like quite an elaborate package indeed.
Bruno Republic wrote:
£50 Note wrote:
The promo copy I got in '05 was a 5" square about 2" deep.
Seems they've turned things up a notch. Go to http://klingklang.de/ and click on the Der Katalog icon, and it looks like quite an elaborate package indeed.
Excellent! I can't wait to get my copy. :)
£50 Note wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: Comments I've heard today have suddenly fallen into place...
Care to elaborate?
Hooky said something in a recent interview about bootleggers being the worry that kept him awake at night. Why that comment, why now? My suspicion is he meant Recycle because there are not a lot of high profile unauthorized releases at the moment (except for the Hannett tapes CDs).
We can't be blamed for poor sales of the reissues because the label screwed that up all by themselves. People WANT to buy a quality product, but a quality product is not what was offered.
No one is making a dime off this project, but the support has been universal in that if it were manufactured, people would buy it.
I sincerely hope that Hooky, Barney, Stephen, and Gillian understand that we're not trying to take anything away from them. There are hundreds of thousands of people all over the world who have an emotional investment in New Order's music, and they just want to listen to it and enjoy it in a way that is befitting of the band's legacy, and also befitting of the audio quality that's available in 2009.
Like I said, I've not heard a peep from anyone official about Recycle, but it's not like I'm hard to find - I use the same handle all over the web, including my own website, and there's an e-mail link right on the front page.
FWIW, Ceremony has been downloaded the most, at just under 1500 times - and that's just by people who were savvy enough to find it on the web. Can you imagine if Recycle was available in the shops? A run of 3000-4000 20-disc boxes priced at £100 is a substantial profit for the band.
You are right form beggining to end
john carrington wrote:
Bruno Republic wrote:
john carrington wrote: just like to add my thanks as well. I'm downloading them and then converting to mp3...
Why? Most everything nowadays plays AAC/MP4. Even my ghetto cell phone does. It's not some esoteric proprietary format.
well my expensive but old hi-fi doesn't play them. I have 99% of these tracks anyway. this just allows me to put the tracks i want, in the order i want, on a cd. If i wanted to do the same currently i'd be switching between vinyl/cd/tape like a madman, and some of them aren't the best quality now they're 20 odd years old
If you find the right CD burning program, you don't need to convert the files to mp3. I use Nero and it lets you drag and drop pretty much any kind of audio file into a que, then burns them all onto a audio disc. There's a few that are free out there, just gotta Google around.
Then there's this MP4 plug-in for MP3 Gain that lets you tweak the volumes of albums without "normalizing" (brick walling and resampling) the files. With that, you can throw together a handful of files from various albums and have the volume be consistent.
twp wrote:
£50 Note wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: Comments I've heard today have suddenly fallen into place...
Care to elaborate?
Hooky said something in a recent interview about bootleggers being the worry that kept him awake at night. Why that comment, why now? My suspicion is he meant Recycle because there are not a lot of high profile unauthorized releases at the moment (except for the Hannett tapes CDs).
We can't be blamed for poor sales of the reissues because the label screwed that up all by themselves. People WANT to buy a quality product, but a quality product is not what was offered.
No one is making a dime off this project, but the support has been universal in that if it were manufactured, people would buy it.
I sincerely hope that Hooky, Barney, Stephen, and Gillian understand that we're not trying to take anything away from them. There are hundreds of thousands of people all over the world who have an emotional investment in New Order's music, and they just want to listen to it and enjoy it in a way that is befitting of the band's legacy, and also befitting of the audio quality that's available in 2009.
Like I said, I've not heard a peep from anyone official about Recycle, but it's not like I'm hard to find - I use the same handle all over the web, including my own website, and there's an e-mail link right on the front page.
FWIW, Ceremony has been downloaded the most, at just under 1500 times - and that's just by people who were savvy enough to find it on the web. Can you imagine if Recycle was available in the shops? A run of 3000-4000 20-disc boxes priced at £100 is a substantial profit for the band.
You are right form beggining to end
Just not the '£100' bit,I know what you're saying and a deluxe version would surely be worth it,but it would need to be kept in the realms of affordability for the whole thing to be worth it,and for Warners to sell.I mean,once it becomes apparent that it isn't selling as much or as quickly as they'd hoped,the price would eventually come down anyway,so far better to start it off at a more reasonable price,that way they would recoup their costs far quicker.That's what they want,you know how they'd work.For what it would cost to produce,and all the mastering & fixing has been done already for them,£50 would be a far more acceptable & reasonable price.I'm sure it would fly.Warners,get it fookin' sorted!! 
kel wrote:
Just not the '£100' bit,I know what you're saying and a deluxe version would surely be worth it,but it would need to be kept in the realms of affordability for the whole thing to be worth it,and for Warners to sell.I mean,once it becomes apparent that it isn't selling as much or as quickly as they'd hoped,the price would eventually come down anyway,so far better to start it off at a more reasonable price,that way they would recoup their costs far quicker.That's what they want,you know how they'd work.For what it would cost to produce,and all the mastering & fixing has been done already for them,£50 would be a far more acceptable & reasonable price.I'm sure it would fly.Warners,get it fookin' sorted!!
For 18 or 20 discs with full artwork, it would need to cost more than £50 if they were to make any money off of it. No profit, no point. Condense them all to four discs and offer no artwork, and then maybe £50 would be do-able. But who wants that? People who just want the music will simply download it.
From a business perspective, it makes far more sense to do a limited edition. First of all, it allows them to determine their manufacturing costs up-front. Second, it helps fuel demand for them. Finally, the traditional marketing rules of physical media have gone out the window. It doesn't matter how cheap you make it, because it will still cost more than free. Free is how a lot of people get their music now, and thus they value all music at $0.00. So you have to appeal to the dedicated collector, produce a top-quality product, and charge for it accordingly.
Bruno Republic wrote: Condense them all to four discs and offer no artwork, and then maybe £50 would be do-able. But who wants that? People who just want the music will simply download it.
Condense them all to four discs (using two 2-CD cases like DM Singles 86>98), include a separate booklet containing all the artwork so that a single page has a front cover on one side and a back cover on the other, then cram the two disc cases and booklet in a cardboard sleeve. Problem solved.
Re-Member wrote: Condense them all to four discs (using two 2-CD cases like DM Singles 86>98), include a separate booklet containing all the artwork so that a single page has a front cover on one side and a back cover on the other, then cram the two disc cases and booklet in a cardboard sleeve. Problem solved.
Honestly, that's not what I'd want. That's kinda half-assed, just like everything else the label has done. That's also not as fitting as the singles boxes the Smiths, Depeche Mode, The Clash, Blondie, etc., have done.
£50 Note wrote:
Re-Member wrote: Condense them all to four discs (using two 2-CD cases like DM Singles 86>98), include a separate booklet containing all the artwork so that a single page has a front cover on one side and a back cover on the other, then cram the two disc cases and booklet in a cardboard sleeve. Problem solved.
Honestly, that's not what I'd want. That's kinda half-assed, just like everything else the label has done. That's also not as fitting as the singles boxes the Smiths, Depeche Mode, The Clash, Blondie, etc., have done.
I'm just looking at it from a cost point of view. Obviously having an official box set with individual singles and artwork included would be great (your Recycle project is already proving that), but considering how Rhino already invested money not once, but twice in New Order box sets that both got screwed up, having a condensed four disc set with a booklet of artwork is the very least they can do to lay New Order's back catalog to rest with some kind of dignity and still come out with a profit. But honestly, everyone here knows deep down inside that they'd still screw it up somehow.
Bruno Republic wrote:
kel wrote:
Just not the '£100' bit,I know what you're saying and a deluxe version would surely be worth it,but it would need to be kept in the realms of affordability for the whole thing to be worth it,and for Warners to sell.I mean,once it becomes apparent that it isn't selling as much or as quickly as they'd hoped,the price would eventually come down anyway,so far better to start it off at a more reasonable price,that way they would recoup their costs far quicker.That's what they want,you know how they'd work.For what it would cost to produce,and all the mastering & fixing has been done already for them,£50 would be a far more acceptable & reasonable price.I'm sure it would fly.Warners,get it fookin' sorted!!
For 18 or 20 discs with full artwork, it would need to cost more than £50 if they were to make any money off of it. No profit, no point. Condense them all to four discs and offer no artwork, and then maybe £50 would be do-able. But who wants that? People who just want the music will simply download it.
From a business perspective, it makes far more sense to do a limited edition. First of all, it allows them to determine their manufacturing costs up-front. Second, it helps fuel demand for them. Finally, the traditional marketing rules of physical media have gone out the window. It doesn't matter how cheap you make it, because it will still cost more than free. Free is how a lot of people get their music now, and thus they value all music at $0.00. So you have to appeal to the dedicated collector, produce a top-quality product, and charge for it accordingly.
Why? CD's cost fook all to produce,£50 Note has already sorted the mastering etc. for them,that only leaves packaging,artwork and marketing,fifty quid-ish is more than enough & it would fly.By making it too expensive,you are actually forcing people into downloading it illegally,you want people to actually buy it,but I do agree,I want it to be quality & not half-arsed so as not to completely miss the point
I think both of you are missing the point.
I'm not going to buy a 4-disc set, and I'm the target demographic. I'm a collector. Things like that only work for bands that have A and B-sides, but not lots of additional remixes.
Every one of New Order's 80's contemporaries have done the remaster route/singles box properly. Even the Joy Division remasters put the New Order ones to shame.
Anything less than a comprehensive, multi-disc (meaning each single on an individual disc) set would be a waste of time and money for everyone involved. Considering the colossal screw-up of the reissues, it would have to be a deluxe box set fetish item to get any of my money. You're also forgetting that from the outset Recycle was planned as a multi-disc singles box. Anything less would be yet another example of selling the band short.
No one is twisting your arm to make you buy it, but there are a lot more of us (meaning collectors willing to fork over a lot of cash), than there are of the fans who would buy yet another half-assed, measly 4-disc product.
Besides, there's more music than would fit on 4 discs, and how are you going to split them up when you're halfway through one single and have to put part of the tracks on the next disc because they won't all fit? You have to look at the big picture. You're talking about something that's just an archive of all the tracks from the singles, and not something that's actually a listenable, engaging experience.
In the words of the great prophet "if you're gonna do it, do it right."
kel wrote:
Why? CD's cost fook all to produce,£50 Note has already sorted the mastering etc.
Actually, I am the one who has done all the audio work on this project.
kel wrote:
By making it too expensive,you are actually forcing people into downloading it illegally,you want people to actually buy it,
The problem is that no price is cheap enough to make people choose buying product vs downloading it. It wouldn't matter if you charged $3 for the whole thing, if it was just a few discs thrown together, people would still download it anyway. The MP3 has devalued music to a net worth of 0.00 for most people. You can't sell for less than free. What you can do is create a unique physical product so that the presentation makes it worth it. Making it a limited edition both encourages people to get it now and not later, as well as adding a rarity/value factor. The only money to be made is in dedicated collectors, who are willing to pay for a quality job. Everyone else? They've already downloaded it.
Bruno Republic wrote:
kel wrote:
Why? CD's cost fook all to produce,£50 Note has already sorted the mastering etc.
Actually, I am the one who has done all the audio work on this project.
kel wrote:
By making it too expensive,you are actually forcing people into downloading it illegally,you want people to actually buy it,
The problem is that no price is cheap enough to make people choose buying product vs downloading it. It wouldn't matter if you charged $3 for the whole thing, if it was just a few discs thrown together, people would still download it anyway. The MP3 has devalued music to a net worth of 0.00 for most people. You can't sell for less than free. What you can do is create a unique physical product so that the presentation makes it worth it. Making it a limited edition both encourages people to get it now and not later, as well as adding a rarity/value factor. The only money to be made is in dedicated collectors, who are willing to pay for a quality job. Everyone else? They've already downloaded it.
I didn't mean to offend,I just mentioned £50 Note as being the instigator & person behind it in general,I know there are other people involved,& for that,I am extremely grateful.
As for the product being only produced for & aimed at collectors,let's say a 30-disc limited edition,deluxe set @ £150,there's no way most people could either afford,or would want to,pay for that right out,I for one am a massive fan & have been for over 25 years,& would dearly love something like that,but at the moment because of redundancy,there's no way I can afford that.So what do you do,let down that entire fanbase in the same boat or similar? That just would not be fair.However,I do admit that an alternative to it is not easy to come up with,so where would it leave us? & like most of you have said,after what has happened with the remasters,we wouldn't want Warners/Rhino behind it anyway because they would just fook it up.Opinions on this will run & run,but I think most of us agree,that it is worth doing & doing right,just to what degree is the contentious point
kel wrote:
Bruno Republic wrote:
kel wrote:
Why? CD's cost fook all to produce,£50 Note has already sorted the mastering etc.
Actually, I am the one who has done all the audio work on this project.
kel wrote:
By making it too expensive,you are actually forcing people into downloading it illegally,you want people to actually buy it,
The problem is that no price is cheap enough to make people choose buying product vs downloading it. It wouldn't matter if you charged $3 for the whole thing, if it was just a few discs thrown together, people would still download it anyway. The MP3 has devalued music to a net worth of 0.00 for most people. You can't sell for less than free. What you can do is create a unique physical product so that the presentation makes it worth it. Making it a limited edition both encourages people to get it now and not later, as well as adding a rarity/value factor. The only money to be made is in dedicated collectors, who are willing to pay for a quality job. Everyone else? They've already downloaded it.
I didn't mean to offend,I just mentioned £50 Note as being the instigator & person behind it in general,I know there are other people involved,& for that,I am extremely grateful. As for the product being only produced for & aimed at collectors,let's say a 30-disc limited edition,deluxe set @ £150,there's no way most people could either afford,or would want to,pay for that right out,I for one am a massive fan & have been for over 25 years,& would dearly love something like that,but at the moment because of redundancy,there's no way I can afford that.So what do you do,let down that entire fanbase in the same boat or similar? That just would not be fair.However,I do admit that an alternative to it is not easy to come up with,so where would it leave us? & like most of you have said,after what has happened with the remasters,we wouldn't want Warners/Rhino behind it anyway because they would just fook it up.Opinions on this will run & run,but I think most of us agree,that it is worth doing & doing right,just to what degree is the contentious point
A solution could be: a deluxe boxset at say £150 and a much cheaper Itunes mp3 equivalent.
Ben wrote:
A solution could be: a deluxe boxset at say £150 and a much cheaper Itunes mp3 equivalent.
I would say it's a bit late for that
£50 Note wrote: TBTHOG is now online.
keep going,
excellent work!!!!
one of my all time favorites..
i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version..
be seeing you +1
-1 wrote: i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version
That's coming later.
£50 Note wrote: I think both of you are missing the point.
I'm not going to buy a 4-disc set, and I'm the target demographic. I'm a collector. Things like that only work for bands that have A and B-sides, but not lots of additional remixes.
Every one of New Order's 80's contemporaries have done the remaster route/singles box properly. Even the Joy Division remasters put the New Order ones to shame.
Anything less than a comprehensive, multi-disc (meaning each single on an individual disc) set would be a waste of time and money for everyone involved. Considering the colossal screw-up of the reissues, it would have to be a deluxe box set fetish item to get any of my money. You're also forgetting that from the outset Recycle was planned as a multi-disc singles box. Anything less would be yet another example of selling the band short.
No one is twisting your arm to make you buy it, but there are a lot more of us (meaning collectors willing to fork over a lot of cash), than there are of the fans who would buy yet another half-assed, measly 4-disc product.
Besides, there's more music than would fit on 4 discs, and how are you going to split them up when you're halfway through one single and have to put part of the tracks on the next disc because they won't all fit? You have to look at the big picture. You're talking about something that's just an archive of all the tracks from the singles, and not something that's actually a listenable, engaging experience.
In the words of the great prophet "if you're gonna do it, do it right."
i agree with you 100% on what you said..
i've been putting this off for years, and you're doing it, and doing it right!!!
why can't we just donate(*pay*) you the money for getting a nice boxed set?
be seeing you +1
£50 Note wrote:
-1 wrote: i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version
That's coming later.
EXCELLENT, i knew you wouldn't let us down....
again, outstanding work to you and your team!
be seeing you +1
I've just downloaded the lot and I'm speachless. Shell-shocked even (pun intended). This is by far and wide the finest New Order "product" I've ever heard of.
£50 Note: I love you. I want to marry you and have your children. The Nobel prize committee would be well advised to take the peace prize away from Obama and give it to you instead!
Ruskprick wrote: £50 Note: I love you. I want to marry you and have your children. The Nobel prize committee would be well advised to take the peace prize away from Obama and give it to you instead!
Thanks, but I'm already married. ;)
I'm just sorta orchestrating this project. All of the real work is being done by Bruce/Bruno...ask him to marry you! :D
£50 Note wrote:
Ruskprick wrote: £50 Note: I love you. I want to marry you and have your children. The Nobel prize committee would be well advised to take the peace prize away from Obama and give it to you instead!
Thanks, but I'm already married. ;)
Me too... ;)
-1 wrote:
i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version..
+1
I've been told that this is in fact the full length Touched By The Hand Of Dub, where the first approx. 2,5 minutes have been cut to 'create' the 12" version...?
piliña wrote:
-1 wrote:
i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version..
+1
I've been told that this is in fact the full length Touched By The Hand Of Dub, where the first approx. 2,5 minutes have been cut to 'create' the 12" version...?
True.
It's also a bonus track on the German Interphon copies of the Salvation! soundtrack.
I'd have preferred an instrumental to all the stuttering dub gibberish, though.
£50 Note wrote:
In the words of the great prophet "if you're gonna do it, do it right."
George Michael (Wham!), I'm your man - right?
synthpopfan wrote:
£50 Note wrote:
In the words of the great prophet "if you're gonna do it, do it right."
George Michael (Wham!), I'm your man - right?
Indeed!
"Tell him that 'Jesus to a Child aside', I find his output emotionally vapid..." _
I've given thanks before - but I also want to give BIG thanks to Bruno/Bruce for all of his painstaking 'screwdriver work' cleaning up and mastering this whole project.
Bruno. Hmmm. The nickname sounds like some rock of a man that's been hunkering down in a bunker. Instead of building bombs, he's been calibrating audio as part of some sonic warfare against Rhino...
synthpopfan wrote: Bruno. Hmmm. The nickname sounds like some rock of a man that's been hunkering down in a bunker. Instead of building bombs, he's been calibrating audio as part of some sonic warfare against Rhino...
Well, that pretty much describes him to a T - except the bunker is a condo in downtown Toronto and his weapon of choice is actually classic OOP disco singles/LPs from the 70's. And Pet Shop Boys.
Bruce has an extraordinary talent. It's a shame he can't get paid for the level of work he does.
Andy wrote:
piliña wrote:
-1 wrote:
i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version..
+1
I've been told that this is in fact the full length Touched By The Hand Of Dub, where the first approx. 2,5 minutes have been cut to 'create' the 12" version...?
True.
It's also a bonus track on the German Interphon copies of the Salvation! soundtrack.
I'd have preferred an instrumental to all the stuttering dub gibberish, though.
On my Interphon CD it's titled "Remix Version" at exactly 8:00 min (using iTunes).
synthpopfan wrote: The nickname sounds like some rock of a man that's been hunkering down in a bunker. Instead of building bombs, he's been calibrating audio as part of some sonic warfare against Rhino...
There is no war; I merely saw and heard what they'd done, and thought to myself "I could do better than this"
I love you. I remember when I heard this song in 1992-1993. yes, I was I bit too atrasadoz. Thanks.
Can't believe I just saw this thread. My first download is TF. Gotta love that. Great job to Jeb and Bruno.
Still, there's something on my mind: how is the record company taking this? I may have missed any previous discussions about this. Have they contacted you or is this a don't ask don't tell deal?
EDIT: I find a post about the official being silent about this thus far. I scrolled too fast and missed it previously. So Jeb/Bruno, if and when all singles are up, are you serious about 'poking' the official about a possible official release?
Bruno Republic wrote:
There is no war; I merely saw and heard what they'd done, and thought to myself "I could do better than this"
And you HAVE! It was just a funny image I had at the time of writing.
Would love, love, love to hear some of those PSB restorations if you've done them.
Also - as a sly wink towards this project - you should have some BRUNO logo shirts printed up in the style of the RHINO logo and 50 could have FIFTY.
£50 wrote..."Like I said, I've not heard a peep from anyone official about Recycle, but it's not like I'm hard to find - I use the same handle all over the web, including my own website, and there's an e-mail link right on the front page.
FWIW, Ceremony has been downloaded the most, at just under 1500 times - and that's just by people who were savvy enough to find it on the web. Can you imagine if Recycle was available in the shops? A run of 3000-4000 20-disc boxes priced at £100 is a substantial profit for the band."
Another Interesting comment!
£50 Note wrote:
-1 wrote: i still like the mix from the japanese salvation the best though..
7:59 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) +/*** exclusive version
That's coming later.
and Conf87 (vocal) ?
I thought this project was created by £50 Note and Bruno?
You'd be surprised that Rhino and WB may not know about the existence of Recycle. It's not like they have a team of hired web crawlers searching the web for projects like this.
Ideally, I would think most fans want these to be released officially. It should be a win-win-win situation for the fans, New Order and the label.
I just thought I could offer my help to make that connection to the label. I don't work for any labels. But I have been in the music web 2.0 industry long enough to know some connections. If the project creators/owners prefer to just play the 'wait and see' game, then I will just go back to my lurk mode.
SHED wrote: Like I said, I've not heard a peep from anyone official about Recycle, but it's not like I'm hard to find - I use the same handle all over the web, including my own website, and there's an e-mail link right on the front page.
FWIW, Ceremony has been downloaded the most, at just under 1500 times - and that's just by people who were savvy enough to find it on the web. Can you imagine if Recycle was available in the shops? A run of 3000-4000 20-disc boxes priced at £100 is a substantial profit for the band.
Another Interesting comment!
Thanks for all of these £50. Youve certainly put in some hours with this project.
Just one question. All my downloads come up as Nokia Music Manager files. Is there a simple way of converting them to MP3? Any help is much appreciated.
Al
Unless you only use some truly ancient MP3 player, there should be no need to convert them to MP3.
AAC is a far superior format and is widely supported. Any half-decent MP3 software or personal media player can play it. As you can see, even mobile phones can use it.
Bruno Republic wrote: Unless you only use some truly ancient MP3 player, there should be no need to convert them to MP3.
AAC is a far superior format and is widely supported. Any half-decent MP3 software or personal media player can play it. As you can see, even mobile phones can use it.
Ok thanks. No worries. I just wondered as they were huge files. I didnt mean to sound like i was complaining. £50 has done a fantastic job. Im very happy with what Ive got.
Bruno Republic wrote: Unless you only use some truly ancient MP3 player, there should be no need to convert them to MP3.
AAC is a far superior format and is widely supported. Any half-decent MP3 software or personal media player can play it. As you can see, even mobile phones can use it.
Ok thanks. No worries. I just wondered as they were huge files. I didnt mean to sound like i was complaining. £50 has done a fantastic job. Im very happy with what Ive got.
They're really not that huge. They're 256kbps, same as the iTunes Music Store. I'd need to create them at 320kbps in MP3 to get close to the same sound quality, which would make them even bigger. The artwork files in them are larger than usual (1000x1000 vs 600x600) which adds a bit, but it's not like we're uploading 32-bit 96KHz uncompressed WAV. :)
NO Regret wrote: Thanks for all of these £50. Youve certainly put in some hours with this project.
Just one question. All my downloads come up as Nokia Music Manager files. Is there a simple way of converting them to MP3? Any help is much appreciated.
Al
If the files are coming up as Nokia Music Manager files, that means that you have some Nokia program that has over ridden whatever media player that your audio files should be associated with.
Don't know what operating system you have, but if it's Windows, you just right click the file, select "open with", then "choose program" and browse for your main media player. Make sure to click the box that says "always use the selected program to open this kind of file"
If that doesn't work, then you got to dig in the Nokia Music program settings and remove the association.
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