Sink or Swim (official preview up)
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pretty good, better than expectations, albeit veeeerrrrrryyyy low.
but wtf is the yeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyey
yeyeyeyeyeyeyeyey
yeyeyeyeyey bit about???
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yea-hah.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yea-hah.
Yea yeah yeah.
Hey!.....
It's not bad.... it's no Crystal or Make It Happen anyway.
Fair play to him actually releasing a finished track though 
Old Blue wrote: mp3...
First of all thank you sooooooooooooo much for taking your time and making it an mp3 so I can listen to it at work because Myspace is blocked. The track sounds very similay to the sink or swin acoustic version, it is a pretty good song but to be honest I wasn't blown away with it.
Talk about absent presence! I can't be the only one mentally adding Hooky's bass when I hear this. It's practically part of the song, like a game of aural join the dots....
I must admit, I wondered what it would sound like with Hooky's bass on it. Still like it though.
i like it, i like it
Missy Jem wrote: I wondered what it would sound like with Hooky's bass on it.
good call!
come on guys get to work
Missy Jem wrote: I must admit, I wondered what it would sound like with Hooky's bass on it. Still like it though.
Dear Miss Jemima Puddleduck,
Many thanks for your letter to "Jim'll Fix It". Mr Saville has read your correspondence and enjoyed it very much, especially the photograph you enclosed of your "pretty flower".
Mr Saville would be happy to fix it for you to know what the popular beat combo "Bad Lieutenant"'s new recording would sound like with the bass guitar of the estranged Peter Hook added.
Jim says: "It would sound like 'Sink or Swim', but with Hooky's bass added".
We hope you enjoy this good news. Finally, Mr Saville would like you to know that if you have any more pretty photgraphs, he'd be happy for you to send them to him c/o this address. Mr Saville is also a resident of the north of England, and he often says that "Bolton fanny is the fookin' best".
Best Wishes,
Jimmy Saville, and all at the 'Jim'll Fix It' team.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's ok.
But seriously, what's the point of writing something like that? After so many years, is THAT what Bernard wants to be writing/playing?
really?????
ok then 
New Order Lite.
Or New Order Zero, or whatever the current ad-man's favourite spin is at the moment. New Order without the calories anyway.
The final version's gotta have more bollocks, shirley?
It's fucking fantastic! I love it! I especially like how poppy and dance y it is, but its mainly guitar oriented. The production on it sounds really nice as well.
And I really like Jake's vocoded backing vocals as well. I think its a great song, gorgeous. I like it more than I liked Krafty when I first heard it.
Gonna go listen to it again!
It's okay, in a b-side sort of way, but how does it compare his other side project debut?
Getting Away With It blows it out of the water.
The jury is still out...
I like it lots. Tho, weirdly, reminds me a little of U2's sexy boots. Maybe its the tamborine (?)
It's meaningless fluff (god, those lyrics make Hey Now What You Doing look like Shakespeare), but at least it's quite good fluff. Nice riff - would seem to fit Hooky's syle perfectly, if only...
Where is Jed Stephens?
Jed,maybe you can take a look at this...and then smash a load of Hooky style bass all over it,like you did before on 'Miracle Cure'
Give it a whirl Jed,you know it makes sense!
Definitely a different production style for Bernard. Does seem sort of half finished, like you imagine a Hooky bassline and some interesting drums from Steve to be added later. The bass and drums seem like an afterthought, very unusual compared to NO/JD. Sort of reminds more of some American indie rock in the early/mid 80s.
Kinda like, but a minor addition to his resume. The lyrics are rather trite, and I cringe at more Jesus references. We'll see what direction he has gone for sure with the whole album.
another version of Hey Now What You Doing, i have to say it is so simple for me, nothing rare, new, or interesting. I mean, is great to have new material with Barney working on it, but i hope the rest of the album will be better.
:\ohwell:
er...yeah, its ok. seems like they added the hooky type guitar line just to piss him off. its just the 'don't fall in!' line which i find horrendously cheesy. not bad but considering that a track like 'forbidden city' pisses over it, i'm not that impressed.
Musically...I like this type of sound. Lyrically...We all know Barney's lyrics.
I keep imagining Hooky's basslines on it though.
leather_girl wrote: I keep imagining Hooky's basslines on it though.
the basslines are there, eimi! it's just that hooky is not playing them and it's not a bass but a guitar playing those notes. 
Zachery Starkey wrote: I like it more than I liked Krafty when I first heard it.
Agreed 100%, I still don't really like Krafty, never have. Miles above Krafty. BUT, and I hate to say this, we need some basswork...
almansoglasnost wrote:
leather_girl wrote: I keep imagining Hooky's basslines on it though.
the basslines are there, eimi! it's just that hooky is not playing them and it's not a bass but a guitar playing those notes.
So that's not my imagination. :D
(Sorry...but anyway, I liked the song.)
I enjoyed this song a lot too. While it does sound much like a WFTSC outtake minus Hook's bass, the vocals seem to have a bit more range and emotion to them than anything off that album. True, the lyrics are pop fluff, but virtually 90% of New Order's past two albums have suffered from really trite lyrics. The jangle pop sound here makes them a little more fitting.
OK, no ground-breaker however really catchy - into the NO 'Way of Life' again after a (short) vacation - with BL + Recycle - lovin' it again - Yeah, Yeah Yeah Yeah, hey what you're doing......
Let's hope that this song get's airplay because it is a good song and I think if radio stations like NME RADIO, Q radio and Virgin Radio play it, people will like it.
Nick King wrote:
El Jarvo wrote: The final version's gotta have more bollocks, shirley?
Unfortunately not...
I like it too, but the low end (and I don't mean hooky's bass) does seem to be missing.
What do you want from me, It's not how it used to be, You've taken my life away, Ruining everything
Keep in mind....its the "Myspace Edit" of the song and its most liekely being offered at a slightly lower sound quality.....I am sure that the released version will sound slightly different.
That being said...I love the song!
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote:
Missy Jem wrote: I must admit, I wondered what it would sound like with Hooky's bass on it. Still like it though.
Dear Miss Jemima Puddleduck,
Many thanks for your letter to "Jim'll Fix It". Mr Saville has read your correspondence and enjoyed it very much, especially the photograph you enclosed of your "pretty flower".
Mr Saville would be happy to fix it for you to know what the popular beat combo "Bad Lieutenant"'s new recording would sound like with the bass guitar of the estranged Peter Hook added.
Jim says: "It would sound like 'Sink or Swim', but with Hooky's bass added".
We hope you enjoy this good news. Finally, Mr Saville would like you to know that if you have any more pretty photgraphs, he'd be happy for you to send them to him c/o this address. Mr Saville is also a resident of the north of England, and he often says that "Bolton fanny is the fookin' best".
Best Wishes,
Jimmy Saville, and all at the 'Jim'll Fix It' team.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
:D 
Zachery Starkey wrote: Keep in mind....its the "Myspace Edit" of the song and its most liekely being offered at a slightly lower sound quality.....I am sure that the released version will sound slightly different.
That being said...I love the song!
You are right the album version will be about 5 minutes.
noorder wrote:
michael preda wrote: I love it personally.
We all love 'it'. But what about the song?...
Sounds more quality then the brainless freebass promo trash I've heard.
michael preda wrote:
noorder wrote:
michael preda wrote: I love it personally.
We all love 'it'. But what about the song?...
Sounds more quality then the brainless freebass promo trash I've heard.
ouch!
Boatraceface wrote: Where is Jed Stephens?
Jed,maybe you can take a look at this...and then smash a load of Hooky style bass all over it,like you did before on 'Miracle Cure'
Give it a whirl Jed,you know it makes sense!
Kerry Harris wrote: I second that we need to get Jed Stephens on this STAT to "Hook" this up...
Predictably, I'm working on it!
Best to do a cover rather than just stick some bass on the original, copyright being what it is.
Jed Stephens wrote:
Boatraceface wrote: Where is Jed Stephens?
Jed,maybe you can take a look at this...and then smash a load of Hooky style bass all over it,like you did before on 'Miracle Cure'
Give it a whirl Jed,you know it makes sense!
Kerry Harris wrote: I second that we need to get Jed Stephens on this STAT to "Hook" this up...
Predictably, I'm working on it!
Best to do a cover rather than just stick some bass on the original, copyright being what it is.
AND CAN YOU take the reference to JxxUx out of the lyrics.It's all a bit SONgs of Praise......
RM wrote:
Jed Stephens wrote:
Boatraceface wrote: Where is Jed Stephens?
Jed,maybe you can take a look at this...and then smash a load of Hooky style bass all over it,like you did before on 'Miracle Cure'
Give it a whirl Jed,you know it makes sense!
Kerry Harris wrote: I second that we need to get Jed Stephens on this STAT to "Hook" this up...
Predictably, I'm working on it!
Best to do a cover rather than just stick some bass on the original, copyright being what it is.
AND CAN YOU take the reference to JxxUx out of the lyrics.It's all a bit SONgs of Praise......
How about "RM save this heart of gold?"
Hey there is nothing with the word "JESUS", no one is forcing anyone to believe in him, it's a personal choice.
linus sulanki wrote: Hey there is nothing with the word "JESUS", no one is forcing anyone to believe in him, it's a personal choice.
Oh great
THANK GOd for that.......
you can sing the word jesus in a song without preaching.... does the word really upset you that much?
i am not a christian, and wasn't bothered in the least by the reference.
damn some people are sensitive!
Good stuff. Sounds basically the same as the acoustic tv version. Sounds demo quality or maybe it's just the MySpace stream on my crappy computer speakers at work...
Great melody and lyrics.
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote:
Dear Miss Jemima Puddleduck,
Many thanks for your letter to "Jim'll Fix It". Mr Saville has read your correspondence and enjoyed it very much, especially the photograph you enclosed of your "pretty flower".
Mr Saville would be happy to fix it for you to know what the popular beat combo "Bad Lieutenant"'s new recording would sound like with the bass guitar of the estranged Peter Hook added.
Jim says: "It would sound like 'Sink or Swim', but with Hooky's bass added".
We hope you enjoy this good news. Finally, Mr Saville would like you to know that if you have any more pretty photgraphs, he'd be happy for you to send them to him c/o this address. Mr Saville is also a resident of the north of England, and he often says that "Bolton fanny is the fookin' best".
Best Wishes,
Jimmy Saville, and all at the 'Jim'll Fix It' team.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wow, after all these years, Jimmy finally replies 
When asked to sign a pair of adidas Ian Brown trainees at an eventful Boro Town Hall gig 18 months or so ago,Ian Brown,wearing a notably beautiful soft to the touch leather jacket,scribbled an out of the blue,unprompted "Jimmy Saville is a nonce" on them...
I thought a "best wishes,I.B." would have sufficed,but it makes you wonder...
He had the chair Jimmy did,the best chair ever.You felt like you could trust him to babysit and everything! It would be a crying shame if Jimmy was in anyway not a nice bloke. Jimmy always seemed so amiable...apart from the time I wrote the stupid haired spacker,asking him if he could fix it for me to smash a penalty past Shilton,and have a knockabout with Glen Hoddle at Wembley(who was a marvelous player,probably the finest English player of his generation)and he completely never even bothered to answer me..I was probably 10 or summat but I bear grudges,the fucking ignorant nonce..
Anyhooo back on topic..
Jed,I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Touched upon it once before,I'm not the pushy type but have you considered lyrics for that instrumental 'Brilliance' on your Myspace yet? I think that has the makings of a fucking pearler!
Excellent song... but it sounds like its missing something,... just can't put my finger on it
...oh, Hooky
Much better than I expected though.
I don't know, I really don't think this song needs the Hooky bass.
You CAN write music without Hooky bass.
I know, heresy, but it is true.
And Hooky has always been the heart & soul of new order to me. I played bass with a chorus pedal for YEARS cause of him....
But Sink or Swim sounds pretty complete as it is. All these homegrown bass-added mixes in this thread just sound redundant and prove my point...
43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...
Tarbox23 wrote: I don't know, I really don't think this song needs the Hooky bass.
You CAN write music without Hooky bass.
I know, heresy, but it is true.
And Hooky has always been the heart & soul of new order to me. I played bass with a chorus pedal for YEARS cause of him....
But Sink or Swim sounds pretty complete as it is. All these homegrown bass-added mixes in this thread just sound redundant and prove my point...
43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...
Agreed!
Tarbox23 wrote: 43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...
Terrific!
now how can one tell exactly when a track is helping or not??????
please, i cant wait to read your response.
obviously, if the songs sounds worse with a new track, then you take it out.
but the rule is really for situations where it is a tie, where you add a track and can't really tell if the song is that much better, then you might as well yank it.
if it isn't obviously making the song better, then there is no point to it.
seems like most great songs have 3-5 key elements going on...
Hook even said it about Revenge, how he had trouble cutting tracks, and there are some REALLY BUSY songs in the early Revenge catalog... I love the stuff, but with hindsight Hook admits he should have simplified, focused on just the key tracks....
Sink or Swim needs no redundant chorusy bass line. It is already a full song.
Tarbox23 wrote: you can sing the word jesus in a song without preaching.... does the word really upset you that much?
i am not a christian, and wasn't bothered in the least by the reference.
damn some people are sensitive!
....HOOK line and SINKER..eh SHED?
RM wrote:
Tarbox23 wrote: you can sing the word jesus in a song without preaching.... does the word really upset you that much?
i am not a christian, and wasn't bothered in the least by the reference.
damn some people are sensitive!
....HOOK line and SINKER..eh SHED?
too fcuking RIGHT.
SHED wrote: Can i just say that i REALLY like this beautiful song. THERE I HAVE said IT COLIN.
NOt BAD Lieutenant.
Utter shite. Lets be honest, if this was by anyone other than a couple of members of a once great band you wouldn't even listen twice to it. Too many people on here wanting to like it and losing sight of the fact that it is bland AOR at it's worst. At the risk of sounding like Uncle Liam there's a veritable avalanche of brilliant new music out there at the moment and I would advise all right thinking people to go and investigate that rather than this drivel.
Tarbox23 wrote: I don't know, I really don't think this song needs the Hooky bass.
You CAN write music without Hooky bass.
I know, heresy, but it is true.
And Hooky has always been the heart & soul of new order to me. I played bass with a chorus pedal for YEARS cause of him....
But Sink or Swim sounds pretty complete as it is. All these homegrown bass-added mixes in this thread just sound redundant and prove my point...
43rd rule of songwriting: if a track isn't ADDING to the song, remove it, no matter how pretty it is...
Wow. Going against the grain.
I love New Order. I love Peter Hook (because aside from being an awesomely talented musician and innovative bass player, he is a great guy). But his basslines are not the only reason, or even the main reason, as to why I like New Order.
If Sink or Swim was the first single from a new New Order record and had Hooky's bass on it, I wonder if some of the folks here who seem to personally identify with Hooky would have a different opinion.
And I think its a great song. And I would like it even if it was some band I'd never heard of. Its a great song.
Case in point, I played Sink or Swim to bunch of my co workers (none of whom are into New Order) and they all really enjoyed it.
I think the tune is alright. its not fantastic (on first listen). is it me or does the theme sound like its about ronnie wood?
GlasVegas wrote: Utter shite. Lets be honest, if this was by anyone other than a couple of members of a once great band you wouldn't even listen twice to it. Too many people on here wanting to like it and losing sight of the fact that it is bland AOR at it's worst. At the risk of sounding like Uncle Liam there's a veritable avalanche of brilliant new music out there at the moment and I would advise all right thinking people to go and investigate that rather than this drivel.
Well said - with, or without Hooky's bass, I still can't understand why a lot of people on here actually seem to like this song...
I'm just hoping that the album is a lot better...
I don’t know??? I like it. The harmony takes a bit of getting used to, but I love the guitar (Yea I can tell the part that would have been Hooky's part)
I put it on my ipod and listen to it a lot already. The more I listen the more I like.
Oh and I forgot to add, no fan will ever be satisfied with side-projects.
Get over it, it will always sound like "New Order light" to us.
It's not Bernard's best song, but I can probably name 6 songs off recent New Order albums worst that that.
I actually enjoy the song, but I somehow feel something is missing from it, and I do not mean Hooky... i mean, it sounds.. powerless..
I guess it's the MySpace edit, we'll see.
Oh btw, don't bother putting Hooky on it, his bass would be the main guitar on it.. don't try to improvise new bass lines lol.
Listened to it a few times and I quite like it. Barneys voice is very distinctive and a voice I love so I do tend to like most tracks with his vocal on. Just like Hookys bass and Stevens drums are distinctive which is probaly why NO are my favourite band. This isn't NO but Its as good as some of their recent stuff and therefore alright by me. And due to his age is now more suited to guitar oriented tracks rather than attempt dance music.
At over 50 years old his days of making experimental fresh music are probably over but what he can make are songs in his own style which as NO fans most of us probably like to some degree. If you want more challenging stuff theres plenty out there for this year I reccommend Animal Collective Merriweather Post Pavillion and The Black Dog Further Vexations.
Bring on the album and the gigs, they;ll only be ever one Barney and he will always be a legend in my eyes.
It just sounds like something which didn't make the cut for WFTSC to me. Pleasant enough but not really surprising; a bit late period New Order by numbers. I think we may want them to sound more like the Order which is understandable but they'll never achieve that without Hooky and then it wouldn't be BL then! It could easily be Electronic circa Twisted Tenderness (which was thirteen years ago, folks...how scary!!)
Hmmmm...
Boatraceface wrote: When asked to sign a pair of adidas Ian Brown trainees at an eventful Boro Town Hall gig 18 months or so ago,Ian Brown,wearing a notably beautiful soft to the touch leather jacket,scribbled an out of the blue,unprompted "Jimmy Saville is a nonce" on them...
I thought a "best wishes,I.B." would have sufficed,but it makes you wonder...
He had the chair Jimmy did,the best chair ever.You felt like you could trust him to babysit and everything! It would be a crying shame if Jimmy was in anyway not a nice bloke. Jimmy always seemed so amiable...apart from the time I wrote the stupid haired spacker,asking him if he could fix it for me to smash a penalty past Shilton,and have a knockabout with Glen Hoddle at Wembley(who was a marvelous player,probably the finest English player of his generation)and he completely never even bothered to answer me..I was probably 10 or summat but I bear grudges,the fucking ignorant nonce..
Anyhooo back on topic..
Jed,I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Touched upon it once before,I'm not the pushy type but have you considered lyrics for that instrumental 'Brilliance' on your Myspace yet? I think that has the makings of a fucking pearler!
Mr. Boat et al,
Are you suggesting that Mr. Saville may be a kiddy fiddler just because he quite rightly ignored your love fest with a shit goalie (didn't stop a single West German penalty in the 1990 World Cup Semi-Final) and the creator of this shite?:
Shame on you for maybe suggesting such things against Manchester's Top Ten Club's finest...
chronovisor wrote: So... Bad Lieutenant - Sink Or Swim (Australia Mix) ...or so.
cheers,
|cv|
Ha ha! funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you not think the band are listening?
;-)
Listened to it a few times now, and to be honest it's not as good as this:
Or this:
Or this:
Or even this (which is actually quite brilliant):
Surely this version of Sink or Swim is a pisstake?...
Spotnick wrote: Oh and I forgot to add, no fan will ever be satisfied with side-projects.
Get over it, it will always sound like "New Order light" to us.
Wrong Spotnick.
I fully embraced Electronic and Monaco and the Other Two.
This, if it's the final radio release edit, is just plain crap.
It ain't no Getting Away With It.
It ain't no Get the Message.
It ain't no Twisted Tenderness.
I would even suggest that Until The End of Time pisses on this.
At the very least Bernard should have attempted a one last hurrah with Johnny Marr.
What we have at the moment is just plain sub-standard.
However, I will keep an open mind until I've bought the album from one of many good stockists and listened to it in full.
I think that's a fair assessment
I think it's a good song and quite a catchy first single
The only problem I have with it is that right after the really chilled almost spoken word type section that is actually pretty awesome... they kill it with the stupid unnecessary YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAAAAAAAHHHH part.
noorder wrote:
Spotnick wrote: Oh and I forgot to add, no fan will ever be satisfied with side-projects.
Get over it, it will always sound like "New Order light" to us.
Wrong Spotnick.
I fully embraced Electronic and Monaco and the Other Two.
This, if it's the final radio release edit, is just plain crap.
It ain't no Getting Away With It.
It ain't no Get the Message.
It ain't no Twisted Tenderness.
I would even suggest that Until The End of Time pisses on this.
At the very least Bernard should have attempted a one last hurrah with Johnny Marr.
What we have at the moment is just plain sub-standard.
However, I will keep an open mind until I've bought the album from one of many good stockists and listened to it in full.
I think that's a fair assessment
What he said! :) (I also liked and still like Revenge)
I'm also surprised that people are acting like this is great. Sure, it's nice to hear Bernard back at work and the song has a nice guitar melody but the track is rather pedestrian and middling. It's hard to imagine this getting any attention other than from New Order fans. This type of song craft is not Bernard's strength. The lyrics don't hold up on their own merit.
The homepage says "Sink AND Swim"... needs to be fixed?
And yeah, I don't like the "Yeah yeah yeahs" in the song as well... but I suppose that's Bernard doing fillers for lack of any lyrics? Or, just making the song radio hit-song friendly.
Overall, I like the song.. don't hate it. It's a 3 out of 5 for me, and not bad for a Bernard come back single.
Chemical wrote: It could easily be Electronic circa Twisted Tenderness (which was thirteen years ago, folks...how scary!!)
Twisted Tenderness was ten years ago. Still scary, though.
As for "Sink or Swim," I don't know. I find it very strange that Bernard has given us the lyric "hey what you doing" in three separate songs now.
Nick King wrote:
noorder wrote:
Spotnick wrote: Oh and I forgot to add, no fan will ever be satisfied with side-projects.
Get over it, it will always sound like "New Order light" to us.
Wrong Spotnick.
I fully embraced Electronic and Monaco and the Other Two.
This, if it's the final radio release edit, is just plain crap.
It ain't no Getting Away With It.
It ain't no Get the Message.
It ain't no Twisted Tenderness.
I would even suggest that Until The End of Time pisses on this.
At the very least Bernard should have attempted a one last hurrah with Johnny Marr.
What we have at the moment is just plain sub-standard.
However, I will keep an open mind until I've bought the album from one of many good stockists and listened to it in full.
I think that's a fair assessment
What he said! :) (I also liked and still like Revenge)
Also what he said. Loved the first Electronic album. Rated 'Raise The Pressure'. Thought 'Twisted Tenderness' (the track, not the album) was outstanding as was 'Music For Pleasure' and bits of 'Monaco The Album'. The side projects have delivered a body of brilliant work over the years. This won't be part of it. Dul dull dull.
Don't rate what I've heard of Freebass so far either but at least it seems to have a bit of bollocks. If anybody ever catches me settling down in an armchair to listen to the likes of 'Sink Or Swim' shoot me in the fucking head.
You can't make everyone happy somepeople will like it and some people will not , I think Sink or Swim a very good song and Republic is one of my favorite NO albums, so it depends on people.
What's going on with all this "Hook" it up nonsense.
As much as I enjoy listening to a low quality mp3 myspace track recorded at (err) low quality with someones mid life bass crisis over the top, please give it a rest.
Honestly, it sounds like it was recorded in an Oven...
Let go... just let go.
Actually though, when we get Freebass's first output are we going to "barney" it?
By that I mean re-write it, re-produce it, drop all the bass channels, replace the vocals and then eventually drag Stephen Hague in to fix it.
No Headphones wrote: What's going on with all this "Hook" it up nonsense.
As much as I enjoy listening to a low quality mp3 myspace track recorded at (err) low quality with someones mid life bass crisis over the top, please give it a rest.
Honestly, it sounds like it was recorded in an Oven...
Let go... just let go.
Actually though, when we get Freebass's first output are we going to "barney" it?
By that I mean re-write it, re-produce it, drop all the bass channels, replace the vocals and then eventually drag Stephen Hague in to fix it.
So in other words, Republic 2?
michael preda wrote:
No Headphones wrote: What's going on with all this "Hook" it up nonsense.
As much as I enjoy listening to a low quality mp3 myspace track recorded at (err) low quality with someones mid life bass crisis over the top, please give it a rest.
Honestly, it sounds like it was recorded in an Oven...
Let go... just let go.
Actually though, when we get Freebass's first output are we going to "barney" it?
By that I mean re-write it, re-produce it, drop all the bass channels, replace the vocals and then eventually drag Stephen Hague in to fix it.
So in other words, Republic 2?
I don't know why people slag off Republic, it is a very good album even though we don't hear PH bass that much on it, but it is still a good album me and my friends love that album.
even No fans in the USA had good things to say about it.
Chemical wrote: It just sounds like something which didn't make the cut for WFTSC to me. Pleasant enough but not really surprising; a bit late period New Order by numbers. I think we may want them to sound more like the Order which is understandable but they'll never achieve that without Hooky and then it wouldn't be BL then! It could easily be Electronic circa Twisted Tenderness (which was thirteen years ago, folks...how scary!!)
Hmmmm...
Woh Woh Woh... Twisted Tenderness was 10 years ago.. don't make us older than we are (1999).
What a great idea. Republic 2.
This very site could be the go between, like a kind of New Order counciling service.
We get all 3 remaining members to submit parts. And then maybe the team behind Community could put it together.
It would be ACE.
Get the Vikings doing backing vocals on some tracks. They'd love it. Even do a badge or somert.
Spice it up with a guitar solo face off between Pottsy and Cunningham... add a bit of tension.
Why haven't we thought of this sooner?
They need never talk or see each other ever again...
Hang about... what's Ana matronic upto these days?
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote: I think it's a good song and quite a catchy first single
The only problem I have with it is that right after the really chilled almost spoken word type section that is actually pretty awesome... they kill it with the stupid unnecessary YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAAAAAAAHHHH part.
Hence why my reference to This Time I'm Not Wrong. it's actually the reason why I don't like the "album" version and like the edit.. they removec the "yeah yeah" part lol.
Then again.. Monaco and "Sha la la la la la la" wasn't that much brighter ;) Song was awesome, but it could have been real lyrics lol.
Great tune Bernard, et al! much better than Freebass... come on Hookey, you can do better ;) Do miss your bass line in BL's song.
linus sulanki wrote:
michael preda wrote:
No Headphones wrote: What's going on with all this "Hook" it up nonsense.
As much as I enjoy listening to a low quality mp3 myspace track recorded at (err) low quality with someones mid life bass crisis over the top, please give it a rest.
Honestly, it sounds like it was recorded in an Oven...
Let go... just let go.
Actually though, when we get Freebass's first output are we going to "barney" it?
By that I mean re-write it, re-produce it, drop all the bass channels, replace the vocals and then eventually drag Stephen Hague in to fix it.
So in other words, Republic 2?
I don't know why people slag off Republic, it is a very good album even though we don't hear PH bass that much on it, but it is still a good album me and my friends love that album.
even No fans in the USA had good things to say about it.
I love Republic! I think its a great album. It just has this sad, elegaic, end of summer feel to it. Only fault with the record is the production is too smooth.
Todd Marsee wrote: Great tune Bernard, et al! much better than Freebass... come on Hookey, you can do better ;) Do miss your bass line in BL's song.
Why is everyone thinking that the rough Stalingrad demo IS Freebass... you seriously could not be any more wrong!! :\ohwell:
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Todd Marsee wrote: Great tune Bernard, et al! much better than Freebass... come on Hookey, you can do better ;) Do miss your bass line in BL's song.
Why is everyone thinking that the rough Stalingrad demo IS Freebass... you seriously could not be any more wrong!! :\ohwell:
You are right, I know Peter Hook won't dissapoint.
linus sulanki wrote: You can't make everyone happy somepeople will like it and some people will not , I think Sink or Swim a very good song and Republic is one of my favorite NO albums, so it depends on people.
Well, I think Shit or Shit is crap (if this is indeed the final radio version), but on the other hand think Republic is an excellent commercial album, unfairly pillioried by a significant section of NO fans.
How does that fit in with your theory Linus?
noorder wrote:
linus sulanki wrote: You can't make everyone happy somepeople will like it and some people will not , I think Sink or Swim a very good song and Republic is one of my favorite NO albums, so it depends on people.
Well, I think Shit or Shit is crap (if this is indeed the final radio version), but on the other hand think Republic is an excellent commercial album, unfairly pillioried by a significant section of NO fans.
How does that fit in with your theory Linus?
I guess you have right to your opinion, mabye you will like the album version which is longer, around 5 mins or some other songs from the album, but you are free to like or hate the song.
Sorry, I said 13 years ago for TT and it was indeed 10. For some reason I was thinking about Raise The Pressure.
It'll be interesting to see who buys this when it's actually out as it seems to have polarised us lot!
Pretty cool track.
Obvoiously it feels like someone has kicked out the bass amp cable accidently on purpose!
Never mind. 2 FB and BL LPs B4 the next NO LP is fine by me!
Chemical wrote: Sorry, I said 13 years ago for TT and it was indeed 10. For some reason I was thinking about Raise The Pressure.
It'll be interesting to see who buys this when it's actually out as it seems to have polarised us lot!
I'll be buying it, I have to, my mind won't let me not buy it.
Despite my comments about it needing bass I do like the track, it's not fantastic, I'd put it on a par with everyone everywhere or who's joe.
I'm sure the album will have some more electronic (i.e. synth based, not sumner/marr) tracks on it as it's always bernard that likes to take tracks that way.
I'm not sure who it was, and can't be bothered reading through all the comments again, but I agree, not everything needs a hooky style bass line, but the guitar part which is so obviously influenced by hooky's playing is prominent enough to make quite a few people wish it really was hooky, I suppose really we just wish it was new order and not just part of new order, but I think we will have to live with that for some time yet.
My version by the way, will not just be me jamming over the track, it will be a cover and be a bit different, for those interested I'll post when it's done, for those not, don't read the post when it goes on.
Spotnick wrote:
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote: I think it's a good song and quite a catchy first single
The only problem I have with it is that right after the really chilled almost spoken word type section that is actually pretty awesome... they kill it with the stupid unnecessary YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAAAAAAAHHHH part.
Hence why my reference to This Time I'm Not Wrong. it's actually the reason why I don't like the "album" version and like the edit.. they removec the "yeah yeah" part lol.
Then again.. Monaco and "Sha la la la la la la" wasn't that much brighter ;) Song was awesome, but it could have been real lyrics lol.
Well I like both
I love Republic! I think its a great album. It just has this sad, elegaic, end of summer feel to it. Only fault with the record is the production is too smooth.
Yeah, me too, right on with that end of summer melancholy, ZS. But anyway, I thought all the Brits felt Republic was the Americans' favorite and that was shorthand for slagging it off?
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Todd Marsee wrote: Great tune Bernard, et al! much better than Freebass... come on Hookey, you can do better ;) Do miss your bass line in BL's song.
Why is everyone thinking that the rough Stalingrad demo IS Freebass... you seriously could not be any more wrong!! :\ohwell:
We can only judge what what's been released... a single maybe to shut us up?
After one listen through... I love it. 
Of course, my soul was forged from melancholy jingle-jangle riffs, so this is right up my alley.
It helps that it's Bad Lieutenant: expectations are low, and no matter the quality, it doesn't harm NO's legacy.
Speaking of late summer: this hits me just the same way that Moz' "My Love Life" did, easing my ears out of summer and into more contemplative times.
Is there any word at all of remixes? perhaps a 12" or a remix CD? It would be great if Stephen Morris or Gillian did one.
Gave it a few listens and i fucking love it!!!
It's just a great popsong which sticks in ur head after a while...nice one
Now, time for an early bar i would say
.............mmmmmm...
No rumbley growly bass.......?
I don't know. :\ohwell:
New Order for girls? 
:bag:
Just listened to it. The song gets better from start to finish.
I dig it. Definatly worth requesting on the radio
I can't wait to hear more... I'm totally digging the combination of Barney's vocal over those layers of chiming jingle-jangle guitars.
It makes you wonder what it would sound like if Barney were to collaborate with Johnny Marr...
Its a new order song without hooky playing bass but they have tried to cop it and not done a very good job. Middle of the road not very good but not very bad
Got my download and just listening to it now:)
Nice of BL to give away a freebie.
It wasnt emailed to me directly. I had to go via another email and request it again and then the BL website sent it to my email address.
cant wait for album!
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Todd Marsee wrote: Great tune Bernard, et al! much better than Freebass... come on Hookey, you can do better ;) Do miss your bass line in BL's song.
Why is everyone thinking that the rough Stalingrad demo IS Freebass... you seriously could not be any more wrong!! :\ohwell:
you are right about FreeBass but because we now only know one or two tracks from them it's the only thing we can judge, unfortunately :\ohwell:
Give us a few more tracks and we and we can judge it better i would say:)
Right I've finally listened to it, and this is what I think.
What is it FOR?
The lyrics don't mean anything in particular. It's a jumble of meaningless metaphors with a few nonsensical boating (hold on tight and don't fall in) and religious (Jesus save this heart of gold, take the time to save a soul) references. What the fuck does it mean? And who is it being addressed to? It's nonsense, it has no meaning. The words have been assembled because they rhyme and sound all right. Fine for a boyband, but far from pioneering. And all delivered in a nasal received-Cheshire accent that sounds like a rich, ageing pop star who's moved out of Manchester and given up drugs. I hate it.
Onto the music, if we must. Well again, it's entirely formulaic. A sub-Byrds 12 string riff, acoustic rhythm and a screechy solo, which we know Phil can deliver in his sleep. What else is there? Nothing. It doesn't rock, it doesn't dance it doesn't chill you out. The 12 string riff catches into your mind and rolls around all afternoon like an East 17 song. And that's it, is it? 30+ years in the game and the best you can come up with is 'catchy'?
And the yeah yeah yeahs. What's that all about? I can only assume they got bored with the stupid lyrics and just decided to fill in until the inevitable repeat to fade. She Loves You it aint, there's nothing triumphant to celebrate. No no no no no would have been a better call.
Barney: whatcher dooowin?
SHED wrote: SHIT
wHAT someone i know said when he had been out to the pub.But i think COLIN and i may be THINKING the same thing.I'm just a bit more articulate!:p
NEW ORDER must be RE-BUILT.....FAC 2009
"Sink or Swim" is a pop song for the ages, a song that will be as relevant to its time and place as "All You Need is Love" or "Johnny B. Goode" were to theirs. In its essence, it depicts the mood of the naughties better than any other song. Just as interesting is its topicality. On one hand, "Sink or Swim" possesses an introspective melody with poignant lyrics reflecting on self-motivation and the meaning of life. On the other, it’s a simple but catchy little ditty that sounds great emanating from a portable radio.
Diamond 383 wrote: Right I've finally listened to it, and this is what I think.
What is it FOR?
The lyrics don't mean anything in particular. It's a jumble of meaningless metaphors with a few nonsensical boating (hold on tight and don't fall in) and religious (Jesus save this heart of gold, take the time to save a soul) references. What the fuck does it mean? And who is it being addressed to? It's nonsense, it has no meaning. The words have been assembled because they rhyme and sound all right. Fine for a boyband, but far from pioneering. And all delivered in a nasal received-Cheshire accent that sounds like a rich, ageing pop star who's moved out of Manchester and given up drugs. I hate it.
Onto the music, if we must. Well again, it's entirely formulaic. A sub-Byrds 12 string riff, acoustic rhythm and a screechy solo, which we know Phil can deliver in his sleep. What else is there? Nothing. It doesn't rock, it doesn't dance it doesn't chill you out. The 12 string riff catches into your mind and rolls around all afternoon like an East 17 song. And that's it, is it? 30+ years in the game and the best you can come up with is 'catchy'?
And the yeah yeah yeahs. What's that all about? I can only assume they got bored with the stupid lyrics and just decided to fill in until the inevitable repeat to fade. She Loves You it aint, there's nothing triumphant to celebrate. No no no no no would have been a better call.
Barney: whatcher dooowin?
Where to start with this?
What is it for? What is any music for? Since when has anything NO/JD related ever been for anything? What the fuck does it need to be for other than for listening?
Then, the shocking revelation that the lyrics are a bit shite - Jesus H, better hold the front page on that one - Barney writes crap lyrics. This comes as a surprise to you? I don't see this as any more a criticism than someone looking at the sky and saying "jeez, it's a bit fucking blue, isn't it?".
I won't bother with commenting on the sub-Byrds and East 17 comparisons here other than to say NOBODY can touch a 12-string Rickenbacker without some toolbox mentioning the Byrds.
OK, so you dont like it - fair enough, but best leave it there. I personally think it's pretty cool. Flame away, I don't care.
CTB
You can do a lot more with a 12 String than twiddle about the D Chord. Listen to the start of Electronic's version of Can't Find My Way Home, for example. It's a truly amazing instrument to play and all everyone does when they pick one up is D Dsus4 D like the Byrds have been doing since the 60s. It dominates the soundscape and is a shortcut to catchy. It genuinely offends me as a pissy appeal for people to love it. "Listen to me, I'm catchy."
It's ridiculous to infer that Barney isn't capable of better, or even that he doesn't know that this isn't up to the mark. He's as well known for shrugging and saying 'this will do' as he is for being a perfectionist when it suits him. Listen to this, and then listen to Temptation, Ceremony, Turn, Crystal, EGG or any of the other songs that seemed to get better and better the first thousand times we listened to them. You didn't have to try to like them - they were brilliant. This isn't shit, but it doesn't deserve to be compared to anything but the worst of anything that Barney's been involved in before.
You're entitled to your opinion, as am I, but if you call me a toolbox again I will come to Australia and kick your head in.
This is the best use of a Rickenbacker 12 string ever! (from about 1 minute in). If only more people weren't so precious about them (though they do cost too much and break easily so...)
Diamond 383 wrote: You can do a lot more with a 12 String than twiddle about the D Chord. Listen to the start of Electronic's version of Can't Find My Way Home, for example. It's a truly amazing instrument to play and all everyone does when they pick one up is D Dsus4 D like the Byrds have been doing since the 60s. It dominates the soundscape and is a shortcut to catchy. It genuinely offends me as a pissy appeal for people to love it. "Listen to me, I'm catchy."
It's ridiculous to infer that Barney isn't capable of better, or even that he doesn't know that this isn't up to the mark. He's as well known for shrugging and saying 'this will do' as he is for being a perfectionist when it suits him. Listen to this, and then listen to Temptation, Ceremony, Turn, Crystal, EGG or any of the other songs that seemed to get better and better the first thousand times we listened to them. You didn't have to try to like them - they were brilliant. This isn't shit, but it doesn't deserve to be compared to anything but the worst of anything that Barney's been involved in before.
You're entitled to your opinion, as am I, but if you call me a toolbox again I will come to Australia and kick your head in.
OK, fair do's. Not saying he isn't capable of better, but he's not exactly covered himself in lyrical glory much since Regret though has he? (Turn excepted, good point)
While I get your point re: the Dsus jangliness, I still think there's a bit more to SoS than that, but like you said - each to their own. It's in F#m though, just to add to my risk of intercontinental head-kickdom.
CTB
I think the problem I have with the riff is that it doesn't change throughout the song. The best 'riff' songs don't use the fucking thing all the way through the piece, or they at least vary it.
I'm going to let you off for now. I've just checked the price of the flights and you're not worth it.
But think on.
F#m indeed. I know people you know.
Sink or Swin is a good song, it is not a great song like Regret, Crystal or Krafty in my opinion but is it still good song, it is still better to get some sort of NO related material that getting nothing at all, I listen to alot of NME radio and it is much better that half of the new crap they are playing, so it might not be a classic but I still will buy the album and check their gigs in they come to NYC.
Toolbox wrote:
The lyrics don't mean anything in particular. It's a jumble of meaningless metaphors
I am shocked to read these words on a New Order message board.
ShugZV wrote: "Sink or Swim" is a pop song for the ages, a song that will be as relevant to its time and place as "All You Need is Love" or "Johnny B. Goode" were to theirs. In its essence, it depicts the mood of the naughties better than any other song. Just as interesting is its topicality. On one hand, "Sink or Swim" possesses an introspective melody with poignant lyrics reflecting on self-motivation and the meaning of life. On the other, it’s a simple but catchy little ditty that sounds great emanating from a portable radio.
Toolbox wrote:
ShugZV wrote: "Sink or Swim" is a pop song for the ages, a song that will be as relevant to its time and place as "All You Need is Love" or "Johnny B. Goode" were to theirs. In its essence, it depicts the mood of the naughties better than any other song. Just as interesting is its topicality. On one hand, "Sink or Swim" possesses an introspective melody with poignant lyrics reflecting on self-motivation and the meaning of life. On the other, it’s a simple but catchy little ditty that sounds great emanating from a portable radio.
I'd love to claim that as ma own, but I was bored and deliberately stole it from a review of Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve
Mines would be more like "It's good, but it's just missing that something"
I like he sings about Jesus, the group is blessed from now on. Maybe that's the point of the song. He does not want another New Order Story.
runwild wrote: I like he sings about Jesus, the group is blessed from now on. Maybe that's the point of the song. He does not want another New Order Story.
Blessed by who? 
(I was touched by the hand of god, I never knew it but I thought I was)
It reminds me of the weather we have had nearly all summer. Limp, wet, bland and uninspiring.
Barney just has one of those voices that I can't not like, no matter what song it is (apart from "Working Overtime," ugh). Even if this record is underwhelming, I'll come back to the Bernard vocal tracks. He has this trick that just makes me listen.
Dunno how people are listening to the track (ipods, pc speakers?) but I just played the 320k .mp3 of it through some huge speakers and it sounds f'in ace!.
Cant wait to hear this live and very loud.
Tock wrote: Dunno how people are listening to the track (ipods, pc speakers?) but I just played the 320k .mp3 of it through some huge speakers and it sounds f'in ace!.
Cant wait to hear this live and very loud.
Played it through Bose Headphones, quality is amazing for a lossy format.
I've just played it through better headphones and that 12-string sounds a lot better in the mix. Far less intrusive.
In fact, I quite like it now.
Toolbox wrote: In fact, I quite like it now.
Bloody hell, I'm still trying to like it, but failing miserably...
Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously. Put your heads down on the desk. Stop over analysing everything. It's not New Order, it's not Electronic, it's definitely not Joy Division. It's pop, with ambivalent, Barney-esque lyrics.
Nick King wrote:
Bloody hell, I'm still trying to like it, but failing miserably...
I was just saying it, to see what it felt like. I can't stand it really.
Knuckles, you're right of course. I doubt any of us are thinking about it for any longer than we're writing about it on here. I hope not, anyway.
For me it's not overnalysis - I don't think it's wrong being a music fan first and NO fan second to expect some quality once in a while! You can't keep make excuses and allowances for poor music. (As Bono keeps saying it's easy to be just be very good and nothing more).
I've listened to the track about ten times now and I love it.
Agree with another poster that it gets better as it goes along. The last verse has great lyrics.
But then I always seem to love the New Order songs everyone hates. 
I was in town with Rocket last night and he told some geezer that the latest download he had got was by BAD LIEUTenant and he thought it was SHIT hot.He then mouthed off about getting a job soon and a round.What a cnut!
Its growing on me. To me its in the mould of Krafty. A nice enough tune but doesnt give me goosebumps or anything. But I must add, Barneys vocals are very good, clear and in tune on SOS.
http://www.blender.com/blender-blog/83981/five-new-songs-we-like-september-2-2009.html
"Sink Or Swim" - Bad Lieutenant
When bassist Peter Hook left New Order, many fans wondered if they'd see, and hear, more from the individual members of the legendary Mancunians. The answer, in the form of this new track from the Bernard Sumner-led Bad Lieutenant, is a resounding yes. The New Order vocalist and guitarist has joined forces with guitarists Phil Cunningham and Jake Evans to form this new project that also features contributions from NO drummer Stephen Morris and Blur bassist Alex James. Bad Lieutenant's debut album Never Cry Another Tear will be out exclusively through Amazon beginning October 6, and then in physical form everywhere in November. For now, here's the first—amazing and very New Ordery—single.
http://www.nme.com/reviews/nme/10801
- Bad Lieutenant – Sink Or Swim The first track from Bernard Sumner and Phil Cunningham from New Order’s new band is hardly a massive step forward, being as it is a breezily emotional slice of radio-friendly guitar rock lacking only a Hooky bassline and a bit of keyboard to make it a New Order track. What it lacks in novelty, though, it makes up for in sweet melancholy.
http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/2009_09_01_archive.html#7824157054997704395
The Blank and Jones / Mark Reeder remix album is available to pre-order now in the UK via Amazon.co.uk.
Meanwhile, Mark has also remixed the new Bad Lieutenant single 'Sink or Swim'. The splendidly-titled Reeder's Rettungsring Remix will be available 21 September 2009.
The Bad Lieutenant debut album 'Never Cry Another Tear' is released worldwide on 5 October 2009 via Triple Echo Records.
Well, I'm quite enjoying "Dynamo", although it does remind me of The Who (a cross between "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Reilly", as heard on CSI New York)! :)
linus sulanki wrote: http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/2009_09_01_archive.html#7824157054997704395
Meanwhile, Mark has also remixed the new Bad Lieutenant single 'Sink or Swim'. The splendidly-titled Reeder's Rettungsring Remix will be available 21 September 2009.
I bet it will be released on a one sided limited 10" only(78RPM) !
Knuckles wrote: Some of you guys are taking this way too seriously. Put your heads down on the desk. Stop over analysing everything. It's not New Order, it's not Electronic, it's definitely not Joy Division. It's pop, with ambivalent, Barney-esque lyrics.
TrueTrue
