Sub-Culture - I prefer the version on Substance

...and I seem to be in the minority. Much prefer it to the version on Low-Life. Does anyone else share this view?

Be gentle.

Id probably lean towards the Substance version more too. My reasons being I had this album before Low-Life, so when I finally heard the original version I was disappointed. Disappointed that it lacked energy, but moreover because the vocals are appalling. Quite possibly the worse of Barneys. It really ruins the track for me.

I know the Substance version heavily relies on backing vocals and the production is generally loathed but I guess its all down to personal taste.

I had Low-life before Substance. One thing I never got used to & probably never will are the backup singers. They always seemed like intrusive guests to me. That's why I prefer the Low-life version. What I always liked about Low-life is that it always seemed high tech & low tech at the same time. If that makes any sense...

Substance by default. It's a bit odd to say maybe, but I think Bernard's vocals are actually better overall on PCL.

Heavens knows why Bernard didn't re-take the subculture vocal on Lowlife. It sounds like they didn't even bother mixing it properly, in complete contrast to Perfect Kiss, which to my mind is one of his most captivating performances.

It wasn't until they worked with Stephen Hague in '87 that he introduced them to the concept of transposing the key of a song into a register which is easier for Barney to sing. I think Subculture is a tad too low for him.

I prefer the live versions from the '85 tour above all else - the synths are harder and more electro. The version on Lowlife sounds neutered by comparison.

Over time I've warmed up to the Substance remix as a true snapshot of late mid-80's production.

the best mixes of this song, are the razormaid mixes.. (the ones WITHOUT the backup singers)..

look it up, and give it a listen..

later -1

-1 wrote: the best mixes of this song, are the razormaid mixes.. (the ones WITHOUT the backup singers)..

look it up, and give it a listen..

later -1

No

Later

First heard it live in early '85 and thought it was fantastic, then heard the LL version and was very disappointed by the flat production but then when I heard the single version I nearly puked. What an abomination! It sounded nothing like New Order - truly a shark-jumping moment.

It's funny though when you get people coming to this song from two entirely different directions, the likes of me from JD through Movement & PCL, and those coming from a more synth-pop direction via Substance. It's almost like two entirely separate sets of expectations of what NO were clashing in one song.

I very much prefer the Low-life version, though I heard the Substance version first. The lack of backup singers being an obvious point in favor of the earlier version. Not so obvious are Barney's vocals. I like the unpolished(crappy?) quality they have. There's some charm in it. They work for me with the electro beats. To me, this version seems stripped-down and unprofessional, and it really works. One of my favorite tracks on LL.

Although I like the original Low-Life version a million times better, I perfer the 7" version over the 12" remix and Substance edit. The seven inch sounds complete from start to finish, whereas the other mixes use a lot of cut and paste work to extend the song, which unfortunately, makes it sound like a broken record at times.

Likewise, the Pretty in Pink version of "Shellshock" sounds complete, but both single versions sound like cut and paste jobs from hell.

I think the Sub Culture single was a child of it's time. The single was meant to freeze a document of remixed pop-/dance music in time, which was late '85. You can see it as fashion: Mostly, we never wear boat shoes nowadays anymore.

As others have said, it depends when you heard it, if you were a fan of new order at the time and had heard everything up to that point, when the 12 inch mix came out, the use of backing singers on new order records was unheard of, suddenly our Indie heroes were playing the pop game!, it just seemed unlike them, remember this was a band that always played live on TV, probably the only band at the time to do so, it was before dawn started singing with them, before Barney started trying to dance!

Also John Robbies editing was unbelievably crass, and though he did keep Hooky's lead bass part, the low bass which is on the low life version is fantastic, and pretty hard to play too.

imo 12" mix owns the lowlife version imo. imo the bass is imo sounds amazing! on the robie mix in the instrumental break - it's my fave bass guitar sound ever. imo.

Jed Stephens wrote: As others have said, it depends when you heard it, if you were a fan of new order at the time and had heard everything up to that point, when the 12 inch mix came out, the use of backing singers on new order records was unheard of, suddenly our Indie heroes were playing the pop game!, it just seemed unlike them, remember this was a band that always played live on TV, probably the only band at the time to do so, it was before dawn started singing with them, before Barney started trying to dance!

Also John Robbies editing was unbelievably crass, and though he did keep Hooky's lead bass part, the low bass which is on the low life version is fantastic, and pretty hard to play too.

Def agree with u, Jed.

I first heard it on LOWLIFE and i thought it was funny, almost like a parody of Dead Or Alive's Spin Me Around beat-wise....I dont mind Barney's low deadpan vocals.

Than when I heard the SUBSTANCE's version...GOSH!! Wats happening??? I thought....Female backing vocals!!?? Whats next - a brass & horn section ala Eurythmic's Would I Lie To you????? Gawd, no please.......

John Robie's mix reminds me of dodgy strip club music. The Low Life mix is all we love about Barney and co and much more.

When you listen to a groups music for so long you start to get bored of most of their stuff and start litening to the 'other' track that you dint really care for before. you even prefer them at some point. i.e. crap tracks: subculture(version in question) , confusion, most of Republic , WIM, Bad Lieutenant. you know....stuff like that.

the LowLife version is a fucking masterwork!