New Order's Bernard Sumner debuts his new band in the U.S., but never forgets his (surprisingly hilarious) past
Bad Lieutenant, the new project from Bernard Sumner (New Order, Joy Division), was supposed to hit the U.S. last fall. Then things got screwy with visas, and now the group is debuting here this month with a limited number of shows. "It was a cockup," Sumner admits, rather good-naturedly. Given the massive ups and downs of his three-decade-plus career in music (including the recent dissolution of New Order, a result of "political difficulties"), Sumner took his late entry into the States in stride. Says the singer: "If I didn't look at things in a funny light, it would drive me mad."
You're doing a few smaller shows, then Coachella...do you have a preference?
I like both. I've been a musician a long time, and I've found good things about each. But the heat at Coachella...being English, you know, we don't take the sun very well. Our guitarist is like "It's going to be great playing in the sunshine!" He's never been further than France. He doesn't realize it's not going to be like a pleasant summer day in England.
You're working with a couple of new people in Bad Lieutenant. How did that work out?
The writing core for the album was me, Jake Evans and Phil Cunningham, who started playing in New Order after Gillian [Gilbert, keyboardist] left. When we started writing, we also worked with Alex James [of Blur], an old drinking buddy of mine. Whenever you work with someone new, it takes a couple of months to acclimate. It's interesting -- Jake and Phil were both from Macclesfield, where Ian Curtis came from. And they come from a culture of bands being into classic rock. We'd argue about some stuff, and they'd be like "We really like The Who, let's a give a tip of the hat to them." Meanwhile, I'm trying to look forward, not backwards!
Speaking of Alex James, I hear that he markets a cheese called Blue Monday. Really?
He does! It's a blue cheese, and it's not the only cheese he puts out. It's very strong. I used to drink with Alex in London, me and him and Keith Allen, Lily Allen's father. We'd get into some terrible states. And then Alex stopped - he lived near the clubs, and he was getting into an even worse state. He got married, and he needed to do something else, so he started making cheese. It sounds a bit boring to me.
You're releasing this album on your own Triple Echo Records. Do you prefer doing things this way?
It wasn't a big deal for me. I grew up on an independent label. I have a studio at home, it didn't cost us anything But of course there's lots of little things you pay for and there's a lot more work, but the rewards are greater. It's swings and roundabouts, as we say here.
Are you named after that gonzo Harvey Keitel film from the early 90s?
It's true. That's a mad film. So completely over the top. I remember when I first saw it - we were working in Johnny Marr's house, I went upstairs, and a friend of mine was up there smoking pot and watching it. I started watching and was like "What the fuck is this?!?" "It's really heavy," he said. But the name of the group isn't a dedication to the film. It's just a handle to pick us up with. It's like the name Bernard...it doesn't really mean anything.
Your lyrics to the new song "Twist of Fate" ("And everyone I meet/complains that I don't act the same anymore/that I was better before"). Is that about anything in particular? Writing lyrics...it's a bit like acting. It's not always about yourself. This was just about a character feeling persecuted. I'm not sure about what (laughs) - I'll have to have a look at the lyrics again.
I hear you're playing some Joy Division and New Order classics on tour.
After Ian died, for maybe eight years we didn't play any Joy Division songs - we decidedly naively to do that, to start a new band and just write and play new songs. But it's part of our heritage, and we all worked on all of those songs together. Ian would want us to be playing them. So we'll play some Joy Division, some New Order and some Electronic.
I recently heard a country singer do a cover of New Order's "Love Vigilantes" - do you have a favorite cover of one of your songs?
I've heard a country version of that before. It's kind of a country song. You know, when we were in Joy Division and touring with the Buzzcocks, we had no money. We were on the roadie's bus, and he was really into country and western. All these songs were so funny and straight - there was one song that comprised the name of American states. And other real tearjerkers, about a crippled child talking on the CB radio or something. But everything had a storyline. And "Love Vigilantes" has a story, and it's either about a soldier back from Vietnam who finds his wife dead after thinking he had died...or that he's actually dead and a ghost.
So many newer bands are influenced, quite directly, by Joy Division and New Order. Do you like any of those bands?
It's nice to be remembered. I like Interpol and The Killers. When I started in Joy Division, we had The Stooges, the Stones, Kraftwerk and Marc Bolan influencing us. Nobody writes from a vacuum - you gotta learn it from somewhere.
New Order wrote the theme to the 1990 World Cup. With David Beckham's injury, what are England's chances in the Cup this year?
He was an amazing fucking player. It's sad for him, and he's a really decent guy. He plays hard for England. I feel sorry for him about the injury. I think England's bigger problem is that the players are fucking other players' wives.
There have been two movies where's someone's played you on screen ("24 Hour Party People" and "Control"). Is that hard to deal with?
Well, I'm used to being on stage and seeing myself in videos. That doesn't phase me. The other thing is that these movies have been playing in my head, in a way, since they happened. They're a physical manifestation of what I've been thinking. And "24 Hour Party People"...people ask if it was actually true. The real truth is that things were a lot worse and more ridiculous. Look, I joined Joy Division so I didn't have to grow up. Being on Factory Records was perfect in that way, too. It was only in the last few months of Joy Division, with Ian's health deteriorating, that things were bad. Otherwise, we've always had a lot of fun.
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