why's everyone gone so negative?

why is it that a site that is supposed to be for the fans, has got posting like what's the worst new order album sleve, what's your least favourite album track, when did the hooky cashin start.

We're supposed to support the band, I'm not saying we should blindly follow everything they do, and people are intitled to their oppinons, but it just seems to have become very negative and spiteful on here, we're lucky that the band members have had occasional involvement with the site and have also promoted the site themselves, but if this contines I can see them becoming embarresed about it.

Perhaps Nick could just change the name to moaningonline?

Cheer up people FFS

I love the sound of one hand happy clapping! Perhaps if certain "surviving members of Joy Division" ('arf!) - hardly a pop group brimming with fucking 'positivity' - did remember what it is to be embarrassed then there might not be quite so many whinging, moaning, pouting, preening, miserable old fucking toads around here.

Who knows, eh Jedster?

Jed, I agree 100% with you...

Well I have been very vocal trying to neutralise those who have been instrumental with the negativity and of course in turn been attacked with a quoted reply. This site has big eyes! I have never been a big fan of the 'worst/least' favourite polls.

I suppose we're banging our heads against a brick wall when a small minority are incessantly attacking members of the band because they feel that their actions don't quite fit into their narrow minded concept of the band they thought they once knew.

Wait for the quoted reply....

By your thread title you assume we were positive in the first place, personally I think the positivity was the false bit.

Digital Republic. Chat and talk about New Order.

Isnt that whats been going on then?

We are New Order fans aren't we?

We are used to being let down,therefore negativity becomes par for the course.

Having said that,all it takes is one stream of negativity,the stream then becomes a river,then so on and so forth........

They could just go off and get bored and to quote the late AHW "maybe they'll just get bored,but i think they may like being bored".

We should be happy that the former members of the band are realeasing SOMETHING,wether its bad loo or Freebass, the other two, etc.

"you don't know what you've got till its gone"

I suspect it's mostly frustration as 'the band' are no more, and the cynicism is a reaction to a current policy to extract cash from us, started initially by the record label to some extent, and more lately by a former member of the band.

It all comes down to music and the former Factory ethos. We could do with one of them creating something worthwhile, and I'm sure the comments would change.

As far as i can see it's:

Barney and BL - so so album in places, surprisingly big effort to tour.. Ok stuff in general, but would be nice to hear something suggesting Barney is back on form.

Hooky, Freebass, the Light - no real comment, apart from what's been said on these forums recently in depth. 'you pay yer money, you take yer choices' etc. I've taken mine, and they don't involve paying money.

The Other two - who knows yet, but they might just pull it out of the bag.

Negativity on this site is clearly at things current and moving forward, and fully justified from what i can see. As for past material, it will always be revered and played on a regular basis by all the hardcore fans on here.

I'm glad this is a place where deserved (and undeserved) criticism can happen, and not a herd of sheep with credit cards.

Simple solution to cheer this place up, and to stop any 'cashing in' would be for the band to reform. Who knows.

And I'd be delighted if band members read all this, cos it is pretty much how it is.

Serious question. Why are we not allowed to be honest?

Most of the threads on the board have been done to death or are quite frankly boring. Frankly, I dont care about another remix, or another re issue or pieces of artwork etc. Something of actual interest comes up, and people complain that people state their opinions? Whats all that about?

If you want nothing but nothing blantant sycophancy, make your merry way to the World in Motion, you might get some there.

The Teacher wrote: Digital Republic. Chat and talk about New Order.

Isnt that whats been going on then?

As an elleged teacher, i thought maybe you might have read the post in the first place, rather than assuming what it was about. at no point did i say you weren't allowed to be negative, but I've come to expect that from you.

See, personal attacks again.

You cant argue the point, so you get personal. You and Ultraviolent, happens every time.

Anyone else think Jed has been on the beer tonight?

The Teacher wrote: Serious question. Why are we not allowed to be honest?

Most of the threads on the board have been done to death or are quite frankly boring. Frankly, I dont care about another remix, or another re issue or pieces of artwork etc. Something of actual interest comes up, and people complain that people state their opinions? Whats all that about?

If you want nothing but nothing blantant sycophancy, make your merry way to the World in Motion, you might get some there.

I think i have to agree with you AGAIN Liam,it doesn't happen much tho

Yes,some of the threads have been done to death,usual scenario between releases isn't it?

We need something to get our teeth into so to speak,the side projects never achieve the same levels as the normal N.O releases do.

I dont think that people actually realise the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes,yeah we see £600 books and stuff like that,surely we are NOT that naive to think that Hooky himself set the prices for the boxset etc are we?

The same goes for the Bad Lieutenant box sets.

Its all about the percieved notion that certain band members are cashing in on their legacy,albeit a wonderful legacy that it is.

I dont spose it helped with all those useless London records releases,to be honest did we really need a Best Of/Rest Of/Retro/international/Singles and the absolute nightmare that was the double disc collectors editions?

Did we? I think not.

The Teacher wrote:

Anyone else think Jed has been on the beer tonight?

Jed's spelling is normally impeccable.

And normally he isn't that outspoken.

Well, compared to when the band were together, there's probably going to be a bit more negativity than before.

As much as I don't like people complaining rudely for no reason, if there are things people want to discuss that are related to New Order, then isn't Digital Republic on NOOL the place to do that? I don't like rudeness, such as saying 'Fuck you so-and-so', or something, but if it's a meaningful discussion with lots of people's opinions, I enjoy reading it, even if it's not exactly positive. I might even write something in a thread if I felt like so.

Anyway, I try to be respectful, and I like to see both sides of arguments and all sorts of opinions---whether it's positive, negative, neutral, odd...etc.

Maybe it's my rose tinted spectacles but back in the day when you were close to the stage there was always banter flying, Barney and Hooky gave as good as they got. For me that was part of the New Order live experience, much better than all those flowers.

So don't be surprised if the band has attracted a following that contains plenty of people that like a bit of banter. Don't know what type of workplace you all work in but so far this is kids stuff, it just looks worse 'cause it's written, no intonation, no wry smile as the insult is said.

When in doubt, moan like fuck.

Yeah, cheer up everyone. There's still credit on yer AMEX card and, let's face it, at least Hooky's not joined the fucking Libertines.

Yet.

James Thomas wrote: Maybe it's my rose tinted spectacles but back in the day when you were close to the stage there was always banter flying, Barney and Hooky gave as good as they got. For me that was part of the New Order live experience, much better than all those flowers.

So don't be surprised if the band has attracted a following that contains plenty of people that like a bit of banter. Don't know what type of workplace you all work in but so far this is kids stuff, it just looks worse 'cause it's written, no intonation, no wry smile as the insult is said.

Fair point James.

I'm with Liam again here- these threads are actually much more interesting than most of the stuff that we've had for quite some time. At least they have roused more posters than usual. Without new material, concerts etc all we will have is a cycle of best of/ worst of etc. Who wants to spend their hard earned time replying to these for the millionth time?

Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: at least Hooky's not joined the fucking Libertines.

Or The Cribs.

Gene wrote: The Cribs.

Could be worse ,he could have joined The Wombats.

It's not difficult to understand that if people feel they are being exploited it provokes negativity,Jed.

I can easily see why some avid collectors and long time supporters feel peeved,given some of the eye-popping and frankly unrealistic piss-take prices being quoted for the clobber here.They are entitled to a good moan about being disrespected.It's completely normal and happens in every walk of life.

Take football for an easy example. Here we have a product(as the business suits seem to call the game of football these days)that some people have invested much of their heart and soul into all their lives-often an affiliation to a particular team that is generations old.They then in recent years,find themselves and their own children,priced out of participation by sheer greed and there is really nothing they can do about it.But they can moan like fuck about being dissed,and that's exactly what they do....same,same.

I was responsible for starting the thread about the least favourite cover art, but..... to be fair, i did state in my original post the reason that prompted the question and i also stated that i wasn't "having a go" and that i LIKE most of NO and Saville's stuff. Also if you read through the posts, I also later on asked everyone what their FAVOURITE art was.... so it ain't all negative :) :) :) :) :)

Just a P.S.

I think it is fine and justified to talk about all aspects - positive and negative, as long as it is done in a reasonable and constructive way.

But we're all fans - that's why we're here, so let's not argue :)

I figure that if people moan, it's because they care a lot. And I guess it means they haven't given up hope. There used to be a guy on the ceremony mailing list - eddie colton? - who didn't seem to like any New Order music post-'85. Passionate about the band, though.

One thing I can regret is that the more accessible Hooky and Bernard have been over recent years, the more any mystique about the band has been eroded. I think I preferred it when they rarely missed a chance to shut up. Letting light in on magic, and all that.

Otherwise I just wish that they would just put out new records at a faster rate. But then I've been wishing that for almost 25 years.

Just my 2 cents but I think a lot of this backlash is due to disappointment in the BL and the Freebass efforts.

I think people genuinely wanted their socks knocked off by those records and it just didn't happen, and we're frustrated by that.

Personally, I like a bunch of songs on the BL album (and really didn't care for the snippets of Freebass I heard) but nothing is "New Order at its' peak" quality for sure.

In reading this thread and the "meeting NO" thread it's clear that while there may be some expensive limited edition offerings from the band that seem questionable this is balanced by Peter Hook apparently being willing to sign for free virtually anything put in front of him. To me that's way more "limited edition" and cooler/more desirable than any Hacienda dance floor basses and coffee table books. The fact that he's apparently willing to do this with a smile balances out the other more frustrating things I've been reading about.

Also, I remember some threads about some work Bernard was doing with special needs children in his area. So, while we may not be crazy about everything the band does, there is a balance with them. Nothing's perfect, even them in their so-called prime, and ultimately we're just frustrated by losing something that was really special to us -- New Order.

Burt Burterson wrote:

The Other two - who knows yet, but they might just pull it out of the bag.

Not sure what you think they have in the bag to remove but I'm hoping for more of the same. In fact, lets wee on the fires of negativity right now because I dont expect a 'Regret' or 'LWTUA" for a new generation. It'll be more perfect electronic pop, no more and no less.

Everything in its right place.

Gene wrote:

Burt Burterson wrote:

The Other two - who knows yet, but they might just pull it out of the bag.

Not sure what you think they have in the bag to remove but I'm hoping for more of the same. In fact, lets wee on the fires of negativity right now because I dont expect a 'Regret' or 'LWTUA" for a new generation. It'll be more perfect electronic pop, no more and no less.

Everything in its right place.

If The Other Two album sounds like that I, for one, will be a happy man! :D

Nick King wrote:

If The Other Two album sounds like that I, for one, will be a happy man!

Me too. In a world of change and unrest (and negativity) the idea of new music from Rainows Finest pleases me greatly.

A new Other Two album does sound promising. It would be nice to get Gillian back in the mix.

Kerry Harris wrote: Just my 2 cents but I think a lot of this backlash is due to disappointment in the BL and the Freebass efforts.

I think people genuinely wanted their socks knocked off by those records and it just didn't happen, and we're frustrated by that.

Personally, I like a bunch of songs on the BL album (and really didn't care for the snippets of Freebass I heard) but nothing is "New Order at its' peak" quality for sure.

In reading this thread and the "meeting NO" thread it's clear that while there may be some expensive limited edition offerings from the band that seem questionable this is balanced by Peter Hook apparently being willing to sign for free virtually anything put in front of him. To me that's way more "limited edition" and cooler/more desirable than any Hacienda dance floor basses and coffee table books. The fact that he's apparently willing to do this with a smile balances out the other more frustrating things I've been reading about.

Also, I remember some threads about some work Bernard was doing with special needs children in his area. So, while we may not be crazy about everything the band does, there is a balance with them. Nothing's perfect, even them in their so-called prime, and ultimately we're just frustrated by losing something that was really special to us -- New Order.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

Kerry Harris wrote: Just my 2 cents but I think a lot of this backlash is due to disappointment in the BL and the Freebass efforts.

I think people genuinely wanted their socks knocked off by those records and it just didn't happen, and we're frustrated by that.

Personally, I like a bunch of songs on the BL album (and really didn't care for the snippets of Freebass I heard) but nothing is "New Order at its' peak" quality for sure.

In reading this thread and the "meeting NO" thread it's clear that while there may be some expensive limited edition offerings from the band that seem questionable this is balanced by Peter Hook apparently being willing to sign for free virtually anything put in front of him. To me that's way more "limited edition" and cooler/more desirable than any Hacienda dance floor basses and coffee table books. The fact that he's apparently willing to do this with a smile balances out the other more frustrating things I've been reading about.

Also, I remember some threads about some work Bernard was doing with special needs children in his area. So, while we may not be crazy about everything the band does, there is a balance with them. Nothing's perfect, even them in their so-called prime, and ultimately we're just frustrated by losing something that was really special to us -- New Order.

Well put Kerry, and nice to hear from you again mate.

the special needs kids thing was the whole band, have a look here: http://www.worldinmotion.net/newsroom/2005.htm scroll down to november 19th

The Teacher wrote: See, personal attacks again.

You cant argue the point, so you get personal. You and Ultraviolent, happens every time.

Anyone else think Jed has been on the beer tonight?

I wouldn't say everytime...... maybe 99.99% of the time

It's been said before that this is an open forum, there will be periods where we will feel certain members are putting out shit. If anything, this helps the band/bands realize what their audience wants. If it wasnt for this site, there'd be noo hoopla over the remasters, and it seems sometimes the band themselves will coast the site. I think the criticism is also due to our conflicting opinions, some think anything Hooky or Barney does is gold, some think they haven't made a decent tune since Crystal, it's all subjective really. But the fact that we return to post day in and out proves we really were/are moved by what they've created in the past or present.

I’m not sure about everyone else, but I have been on edge lately because I lost my super rare video footage of Ian doing dishes.

Darkman wrote: I’m not sure about everyone else, but I have been on edge lately because I lost my super rare video footage of Ian doing dishes.

Was it followed by his advertisement for Converse? If so, I got it on Ebay.

The way I look at it is this: the reason some of us are 'negative' and like to have a whinge is possibly down to two things and two things only:

1. Warners still owning the entire New Order back catalogue, and as a result of this, every single fucking thing they have put out ever since (not counting the two last studio albums) has been an absolute travesty.

2. New Order not being the band they used to be.

Simples.

:p

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: The way I look at it is this: the reason some of us are 'negative' and like to have a whinge is possibly down to two things and two things only:

1. Warners still owning the entire New Order back catalogue, and as a result of this, every single fucking thing they have put out ever since (not counting the two last studio albums) has been an absolute travesty.

2. New Order not being the band they used to be.

Simples.

:p

Good points.

Burt Burterson wrote:

Barney and BL - so so album in places, surprisingly big effort to tour.. Ok stuff in general, but would be nice to hear something suggesting Barney is back on form.

Hooky, Freebass, the Light - no real comment, apart from what's been said on these forums recently in depth. 'you pay yer money, you take yer choices' etc. I've taken mine, and they don't involve paying money.

The Other two - who knows yet, but they might just pull it out of the bag.

Negativity on this site is clearly at things current and moving forward, and fully justified from what i can see. As for past material, it will always be revered and played on a regular basis by all the hardcore fans on here.

I'm glad this is a place where deserved (and undeserved) criticism can happen, and not a herd of sheep with credit cards.

Simple solution to cheer this place up, and to stop any 'cashing in' would be for the band to reform. Who knows.

And I'd be delighted if band members read all this, cos it is pretty much how it is.

Well for me...

The Hooky cash-in: Speaks for itself. Erase Third World debt or buy a limited edition EP, the choice is yours. Mind you I'm seeing the Light here in Rome 'cause I've never actually seen PH live.

Freebass: As a reviewer said of 'Raise The Pressure', can't believe it took so long to produce so little.

BL: Loved the album more'n almost anything since my 6th-form days and 'Electronic'. Also impressed with the gigography of 'touraphobe' Bernard this time round. Nowt wrong with playing assorted career trax either, if Paul McCartney assembled a new bunch for a new CD you wouldn't wanna hear that alone, you'd like a career-spanning compilation.

Other Two: Never got into the Other2 and their colourless instrumentals and SAW synthpop. If they do make another album I'll probably buy it, listen to it once then consign it to my attic.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Well for me...

The Hooky cash-in: Speaks for itself. Erase Third World debt or buy a limited edition EP, the choice is yours. Mind you I'm seeing the Light here in Rome 'cause I've never actually seen PH live.

Freebass: As a reviewer said of 'Raise The Pressure', can't believe it took so long to produce so little.

BL: Loved the album more'n almost anything since my 6th-form days and 'Electronic'. Also impressed with the gigography of 'touraphobe' Bernard this time round. Nowt wrong with playing assorted career trax either, if Paul McCartney assembled a new bunch for a new CD you wouldn't wanna hear that alone, you'd like a career-spanning compilation.

Other Two: Never got into the Other2 and their colourless instrumentals and SAW synthpop. If they do make another album I'll probably buy it, listen to it once then consign it to my attic.

I know music is very subjective and indeed objective but I have to say from my end that Raise The Pressure was and still is superb. My favourite of all the solo albums. Very much captured the mood in music at the time. I played it to death in 1996 and from then on. Love every track although I never got into Forbidden City.

It's weird when I really give it some thought....

.....that newOrder ceased - in my view - to be a truly vital band after Technique came out in 1989. Thats TWENTY ONE YEARS AGO!!!!!!! Bar their world cup single the following year, we then didn't get another peep from them until Regret - a bit of a red herring actually, because it was such a great single, which then trailed such a bland and mediocre album as Republic with four good songs and seven not so good ones.

There was a palpable sense of disappointment and anti-climax with Republic that didn't diminish even with the two subsequent newOrder releases Get Ready and Waiting For The Siren's Call.....

Add to that the rather nondescript solo albums (excepting the first Electronic, first Monaco and second Other Two ones), and the whole amounts to very little payback - just three good albums from an incredible TEN post-Technique releases from all five different - main and side-project - permutations of newOrder before the final parting of the ways in 2007.

Of all of the solo efforts, I was particularly underwhelmed with the second - extremely bland - Electronic album Raise The Pressure. Not only were the contents anonymous, the cover art sucked to high hell as well - truly awful artwork! The other let down was the second Monaco album - a poor copy of the first [a couple of songs excepted] - and the need for them (as well as Electronic with their third album Twisted Tenderness) to print lyrics within the CD booklet elicited a resoundingly loud "WHY???" from myself. Both releases were rather pointless, and accordingly (if not deservedly) did far worse than their predecessors.

Of all of the side projects, perhaps the least feted / trumpeted was the Other Two. Here at least was the chance to investigate the more soundtrack-y aspect of newOrder through the tantalising glimpses of Steve and Gillian's work from TV programmes such as Making Out, Reportage and Common As Muck, and, essentially, the two albums did not disappoint too badly (their second, Superhighways, was actually my fave pop album of 1999 - pissing all over their debut and, come to think of it, anything the likes of Dubstar or Technique [Alan McGee's bird's contentiously-monikered baby] had to offer by that point).....

If I was to take the unusual (novel?) step of compiling a "Best Of The newOrder Side Projects" compilation and in so doing create a concise 18-track resume of the highlights in the Electronic/Revenge/Monaco/Other Two canon, I might come up with this:

(NB, the sequencing is intended to work like an old fashioned vinyl record - albeit one split into four sides!)

A1: Electronic: Soviet A2: Monaco: What Do You Want From Me? A3: Electronic: Tighten Up A4: Other Two: The River A5: Monaco: Shine (album version)

B1: Other Two: Tasty Fish (7" single version) B2: Electronic: Reality B3: Monaco: Happy Jack B4: Other Two: Unwanted B5: Revenge: Slave (7" single version)

C1: Monaco: Kashmere (alternative mix) C2: Electronic: Get The Message C3: Other Two: Ripple (aka Common As Muck) C4: Monaco: Shattered

D1: Electronic: Freewill D2: Other Two: Superhighways D3: Electronic: Some Distant Memory D4: Monaco: Sedona

Be interesting to see what others think of this track running order.....

Agree with Mr Neck. Except for the Other 2, not my kinda thing I'm afraid.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Agree with Mr Neck. Except for the Other 2, not my kinda thing I'm afraid.

I like Raise the Pressure, some great lyrics and catchy tunes

My feelings on RTP were expressed admirably by this review back then http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/nme6july1996.jpg. 14 years on I still feel the same way, but each to his own and all that poo. Much preferred Twisted Tenderness but it gets a bit tiresome/samey two-thirds of the way through.

People will always whine and get themselves slightly overwrought in the absence of not having enough to worry about in the real world.

Hooky and the rest of the band were financially screwed in the 80's and 90's so they are entitled to make money now. If you don't want to buy it, or think it's overpriced, don't buy it. I need to feed my family so I won't be buying the limited edition of blah blah blah, but I'm still very happy the band members are staying active with the music.

That's not to say that NOOL should be sycophantsonline.com, but there is a line across which constructive criticism becomes attack.