The Production / Mixing of "Temptation" — Forum Archive

13 Jul 2011, 08:53

This has most likely been discussed before many times, but fook it.

The production of Temptation is really good in some aspects; the warm sound, the mixing of the drums, the nice touches of acoustic guitar blending with the electric, and poor in others; most notably the evident distortion from the original recording.

I think I am correct in saying that "Temptation" is the first track they produced without Hannett? [please correct me if I am wrong] so they are obviously learning their way, but there is definitely distortion particularly during the tracks climax "oh its the last time / oh its the last time" where its really evident with Barney's vocals.

I have several masters of this, but its evident on all I've heard, to quote "you can't polish a turd" - though turd is far too strong a word for this gem... I think with the "loudness wars" that savaged the SINGLES compilation the flaws are even more obvious, but I was just wondering what people think of the production and mixing of this song.

I suppose the remastering can only go so far, and you cant really remove the distortion/clipping if its on the original recording.

Glad they got it right from Blue Monday onwards though :nod:

Edit: For the record, my favourite by far is the original. :nod:

13 Jul 2011, 10:20

I like the rawness of the original version, but prefer the 87 rerecording, which is a more majestic version of the song (and has better tempo too).

13 Jul 2011, 10:39

It probably was their first bona fide self-produced effort yes. Apparently Hannett walked out during the mixing of 'Everything Gone's Green' forcing the band to finish it themselves. He allegedly objected to Hooky and Bernard asking him to turn the drums up a bit and flounced off.

All the different versions of Temptation have something to offer. I wish they'd done a full 7 minute version of the 1998 studio version or if they did, get around to releasing it sometime. I don't blame them for re-recording it, while the originals aren't bad the '87 and '98 versions are brilliant and it's obvious they'd properly mastered producing music by then. Sometimes the rougher mixes make for a better tune though so there are probably fans who reckon the later versions are shite by comparison. I'm not one of them.

'Total' does indeed appears to have the best - dare I say definitive - mastering of the 7" mix. Both Singles and the (original) Movement bonus disc versions are atrocious. Straight from vinyl and brickwalled to buggery.

13 Jul 2011, 11:02

It always sounds muddy to me actually.

Great track though, always one of the faves.

:nod:

14 Jul 2011, 00:34

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: It always sounds muddy to me actually.

Great track though, always one of the faves.

I think the original one has heaps of feel and the sound of the keyboards, bass are great. The mix in my opinion is awful very flat and dull.

I'm not too keen on the 1987 or 1998 versions, as they are a bit too polished and lost that analogue keyboard feel.

14 Jul 2011, 05:20

Having bought Substance as my first NO album, I spent a good few years only listening to the 1987 version... I actually prefer the original 12" - the sound of a band finding their feet/sound, etc., whatever flaws there might be in the mix... I can underrstand why they wanted to rerecord it for Substance, as the original doesn't sit well soundwise between EGG and BM, and I would play the 87 version to anyone who hadn't really heard any NO before, but if I wanted to listen to it - original 12" version all the way...

Snorri xxx

14 Jul 2011, 05:42

For me its the 1987 mix all the way. It give that 9/10 but only 5/5 for the original.

The newer version, has more clarity (bass, guitars, vox,drums), better vocals, more tightness, more guitar lines.I agree the analogue keys arent as prominent as they could be and shouldnt be occupying the same place in the right stereo field as the picky Barney guitar parts.

The original (IMO) is pretty shoddy recording wise. Ok it may have charm, and No were finding their feet, but stepping away from that and judging the recording itself, I feel the eq is all wrong, hookys bass isnt defined enough, the chorus vox is off key and the mix is too choppy.

14 Jul 2011, 10:29

Is there an extended or 12" version of Temptation '98 anywhere ? I quite enjoy the '98 version . . .

14 Jul 2011, 10:47

Not that we know of. I guess when they re-recorded it in '98 they wanted it to be in more of a snappy 4 minute pop song to aid their impending comeback. Must admit, if they did make one then I would love to hear it.

There are two versions of the '98 version on CD; the one from the Retro bonus disc and an earlier premix version from a London Records 'Collected' 4xCD box set. The only difference between the two is the Retro version has a bit of keyboard strings in the background when Bernard begins the "Oh you've got green eyes..." bit but otherwise they are identical.

The 'Collected' version of Temptation features on the 3 16 DVD as the Commonwealth Games video but the volume/mastering was fucked up (it starts loudly then gets quieter) so it's not a great rip to MP3.

14 Jul 2011, 11:05

NO Regret wrote: For me its the 1987 mix all the way. It give that 9/10 but only 5/5 for the original.

In which case, are you not rating the original higher? :scratch:

:smoking:

14 Jul 2011, 13:50

The original 12" is flawless,, didt dig the7" in comparison and never went for the 87 version, the most played live song ? either that or blue bloody monday.The space in the 12" is just lush, . Hannett just gave them the computer programme and all took very diferent roads.

what do you think.

14 Jul 2011, 14:05

I used to be completely over the top arsey about production until about 2 years ago, when I realised my hearing is now a bit fucked, I'm not deaf, just some regions are a bit muddy, so I just listen to music for it's feel now, and that means I prefer the live versions. out of the studio recordings I prefer the original 12" it sounds like they're having a bit of a laugh while recording it, possibly the last time they did!

14 Jul 2011, 14:30

I prefer the original 12" it sounds like they're having a bit of a laugh while recording it, possibly the last time they did!

Considering they played it live about 400 times since, I hope it wasn't.

15 Jul 2011, 05:44

Nick King wrote:

NO Regret wrote: For me its the 1987 mix all the way. It give that 9/10 but only 5/5 for the original.

In which case, are you not rating the original higher?

5/10 for original i mean. lol

16 Jul 2011, 06:43

I'm always used to hearing the original 12" version, and so the arrangement on the 7" version always sounds weird. The 1982 production is also slightly flat (snare sound not snappy) but I think it's more that the performance of it was still evolving.

Temptation 98 really suffers because it's missing the "Bolts from above..." passage, which for em is the highlight of the song.

"Temptation" is so well documented, from Taras Shevchenko to 2006, but my favourite recording is the 1983 Kilkenny gig, where the synth is really driving forward, Bernard has got more confident on vocals, and Hooky and Steve rock out for the final minute after Bernard and Gillian have stopped.

16 Jul 2011, 12:52

I should have mentioned really, I was referring more to the mixing/production of the original 7".

:\oops: