Whatcha thinking?

read the piece on BBC 6 the venues don't show it on their calendars as of now... will try to make it.

No Hooky. But, perhaps, this is the best opportunity for a kiss and make-up.

I cant quite get me head round how this is New Order and not Bad Loo, though.

Does that make me a bad person?

Gene wrote: No Hooky. But, perhaps, this is the best opportunity for a kiss and make-up.

I cant quite get me head round how this is New Order and not Bad Loo, though.

Does that make me a bad person?

It's a bit like when David Gedge said 'right we're not called Cinerama anymore, we're called The Wedding Present. Again. Same members, we just won't play the Cinerama shite that nobody was interested in anyway'

At least that funny lookin wee guy from BL that looked like a 90's throwback with his Noel-hair isn't involved. That would've put me off my for sure. Couldn't even tell you waht the bass player looked like.

but then Bad Loot is basically New Order, so it works both ways. Bringing Gillian back in, seals it for me though, brilliant :)

GlasVegas wrote:

At least that funny lookin wee guy from BL that looked like a 90's throwback with his Noel-hair isn't involved. That would've put me off my for sure.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Why they used him I don't know, such a shite dull singer.

Waiting patiently for ticket details

Will probably end up at the Paris show as I can swing it as a holiday with the other half

Ger Boy wrote: Why they used him I don't know, such a shite dull singer.

What a hurtful thing to say.

But, yeah, 100% right. I binned his BL tracks. Not worth a wank.

looks to be a total yawn fest to me.....barney always seemed to dislike hookeys penchant for fast rockier numbers....he prefers slower stuff me thinks....great to see gillian back in the group where she rightlfully belongs....BUT its not New Order without Hooky....end of..

Definite: TEMPTATION REGRET BIZARRE LOVE TRIANGLE CRYSTAL LOVE WILL TEAR US APART TRUE FAITH

Maybe: BLUE MONDAY CEREMONY TRANSMISSION WAITING FOR THE SIRENS CALL WORLD IN MOTION KRAFTY THE PERFECT KISS YOUR SILENT FACE SHE'S LOST CONTROL

Hopefully: RUINED IN A DAY AGE OF CONSENT SUNRISE DREAM ATTACK 1963 CLOSE RANGE EVERYONE EVERYWHERE

Hopefully Not: ROCK THE SHACK WORKING OVERTIME JETSTREAM EVERY LITTLE COUNTS LIAR SLOW JAM

Sunrise without Hooky?

johnnyboy wrote: Sunrise without Hooky?

I'll do it!!

I can play Regret if that helps

phillip lockhart wrote: ....BUT its not New Order without Hooky....end of..

And was it New Order without Gillian?

Ben wrote:

phillip lockhart wrote: ....BUT its not New Order without Hooky....end of..

And was it New Order without Gillian?

Exactly.

Gillian was just as important to New Order's sound as Hooky. I liked Gillian's synths before I liked Hooky's bass.

Hooky quit. They other want to continue. He made his decision.

Ben wrote: And was it New Order without Gillian?

See, this is my issue. The NO Facebook announcement has all these people hollering that IT'S NOT NEW ORDER WITHOUT HOOKY, and that's a fair point, but when Gillian left, you didn't hear a huge outcry that IT WASN'T NEW ORDER. Granted, the circumstances of Gillian leaving are VERY different from Hooky's (in other words, she wasn't going to sue them for continuing as "New Order"), but I don't get how Hooky is so much more integral to New Order than Gillian is. If anything, the past few years have shown that she did a lot more during the 80's than make the damn tea.

Major T wrote: I can play Regret if that helps

I'll do World (Price Of Love)

Housey wrote:

Ben wrote: And was it New Order without Gillian?

See, this is my issue. The NO Facebook announcement has all these people hollering that IT'S NOT NEW ORDER WITHOUT HOOKY, and that's a fair point, but when Gillian left, you didn't hear a huge outcry that IT WASN'T NEW ORDER. Granted, the circumstances of Gillian leaving are VERY different from Hooky's (in other words, she wasn't going to sue them for continuing as "New Order"), but I don't get how Hooky is so much more integral to New Order than Gillian is. If anything, the past few years have shown that she did a lot more during the 80's than make the damn tea.

I will tell you what it is: sexism. Some Lads just cannot accept that Gillian's touch is just as important to New Order's as Hooky's. They also cannot accept that not everyone think it was just Hooky who made New Order great. When I saw New Order in concert, I stood in front of Bernard, so I could watch the band's songwriter in action, and watch Steve drum, and watch Phil play Gillian's synth parts. Don't get me wrong, I love Peter Hook and he is brilliant, but he wasn't the sole reason New Order is amazing.

MONTY wrote:

johnnyboy wrote: Sunrise without Hooky?

I'll do it!!

so if gillian is in, why they need phil?

Zachery Starkey wrote: I will tell you what it is: sexism.

Tarbox23 wrote: so if gillian is in, why they need phil?

Because he can actually play the guitar?

So...

When Gillian left, though it was relatively quiet, it was also a good reason and with no apparent acrimony and what seemed to be Gillians blessing to continue.

When Hooky left, there appears to have been an enormous amount of acrimony and no blessing to continue as New Order.

I imagine right now steam is coming out of Hooky. But if Hooky says "it's cool with me" - unlikely that that seems - then that's great.

Whilst I strongly disagree with Hooky touring The-Many-Moods-Of-Joy-Division round the world for years, resurrecting the NO name without Hooky under the guise of a charity show, whilst also very possibly quietly testing the water for a post-Hooky NO and Jake quietly removed from the band feels very exploitative to me.

MONTY wrote:

johnnyboy wrote: Sunrise without Hooky?

I'll do it!!

Major T wrote: I can play Regret if that helps

cranelane wrote:

I'll do World (Price Of Love)

There's an idea, a different NOOLer for each track, can I do Temptation? PLEASE!

Working OVERTIME

MIDWEEK! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

NotAMod wrote:

mark reed wrote: feels very exploitative to me.

Ultimately, it's solely for a charitable cause. If people don't want to go or don't want to pay they don't have to. If it was perhaps for pure profit I could maybe see your point of view.

Don't get me wrong, I also have trouble recognising it as the "true" New Order with Hooky not on board but you only live once so the way I see it as a fan I could either get hung up on that point or enjoy it and go along to see 3/4rs of the original line-up play those songs. Hooky left of his own accord and if he wants to take them to court over "name use" then that's his prerogative. Over a couple of charity gigs it would look pretty petty though so I suspect it won't happen. Longer term if they decide to continue who knows.

For all we know Hooky has perhaps given legal consent in the background... nobody knows until the big man himself speaks and I'm sure he will. He's not known for being shy regarding speaking out on the ongoing situation with his ex-bandmates.

From the sounds of things, Shamberg requires a great deal of long-term medical care and if Barney, Steve and Gillian using the New Order name for two gigs prolongs the guy's life then I can sort of live with them being "exploitative" in this instance.

It's solely for a charitable cause, for now.

I've seen bands reform for a one-off charitable show, that then becomes a 40 date world tour of mega-arenas with a whole bunch of cash as the reason.

This is in no way to denigrate the importance or severity of Shamberg's condition or the efforts of the band to raise money to help. I wish him the best.

Am I the only person wondering why they couldn't have done this for Tony Wilson?

The Paradise Man wrote:

Because he can actually play the guitar?

So, without Hooky, can we expect Barney to be indulged with the electronic side of New Order?

EGG 1963 Vanishing Point

I'd be happy with 2 of those 3

Really this all isn't any different from all the other dinosaur bands playing their old tracks to a middle aged audience. Sad. But I suppose there are two dinosaur bands now, so people will have twice the opportunity. Hopefully The Light won't want to use the Joy Division name now. And if 3/4 of New Order play on, won't that put a damper on the Hooky New Order album redux? Probably this is all still a bitter chess game between Bernard and Hooky... while there is still something to fight over.

Actually a .75%New Order doesn't sound all that bad if it puts the sad Bad Lieu out of it's misery.

Jed Stephens wrote: Am I the only person wondering why they couldn't have done this for Tony Wilson?

Yes, but I remember there was a talk about NO taking part in a ceremony dedicated to Wilson's memory, i.e. after he died. They decided not to be invloved as a band. Maybe not enough time had passed and they didn't feel like playing fun music even in his honor, especially in the blighted state the band was in at the time.

To close the morbid subject, I wonder if they could have raised money for Shamberg some other way, without playing live. I mean, it's only 2 gigs. There must be something else too... And why in the world in places like Brussels and Paris...

mark reed wrote:

It's solely for a charitable cause, for now.

I've seen bands reform for a one-off charitable show, that then becomes a 40 date world tour of mega-arenas with a whole bunch of cash as the reason.

This is in no way to denigrate the importance or severity of Shamberg's condition or the efforts of the band to raise money to help. I wish him the best.

Come on, this is Barney we're talking about, he never did a 40 date world tour back in his prime so it's not going to happen any time soon! I can certainly see the odd extra live date being announced, but nothing that over the top.

I think there are probably several motivations for what they've decided to do:

1. They genuinely wanted to help out Michael Shamberg. Not that farfetched, they didn't want to see an old friend succumb to a debilitating illness after what happened to Tony Wilson and others.

2. They wanted to piss Hooky off. Sure, it probably wasn't all pure altruism. The level of animosity between the two parties has never been higher and Hooky's touring of the JD albums seems to have been the final straw for Barney Steve and the rest. They wanted to prove two could play at that game.

3. They're just continuing what they initially planned to do back in 2007. It was no secret back then that they planned to carry on under the New Order name but were dissuaded by Hooky's threats of legal action. Perhaps if he hadn't made those threats, NCAT could have been a New Order album. Who knows? But something in the legal situation must have changed for them to suddenly be able to pick up the name when they wouldn't four years ago. Some kind of loophole they've picked up on maybe?

Whatever the case I don't really have a problem with what they're doing, just as I've never really had a problem with what Hooky's been doing. I'd rather they all continue to be active and involved in music that slowly petering out. However Hooky must have done something really bad to piss the rest of them off that bad. Strange how Barney, Steve, Phil, Gillian, old New Order management, old New Order road crew etc etc have continued to work together on Bad Lieutenant and now New New Order, while Hooky has been something of a lone rebel all the time.

Interestingly, I wonder what has become of the new Bad Lieutenant album supposedly in the works? A New Order release in 2012 perhaps? Time Will Tell.

Since it's not an album-backing gig, they should really throw some interesting and challenging songs in to the setlist. Like they did in 1998 with Joy Division songs. Put some awesome Low-Life tracks, songs like Thieves Like Us, Confusion.

I would prefer them to play less Joy Division (maybe She's Lost Control or Heart & Soul). I'd be even ok with zero JD material in the setlist. I think Joy Division got its due well in 98-06.

mark reed wrote:

It's solely for a charitable cause, for now.

I've seen bands reform for a one-off charitable show, that then becomes a 40 date world tour of mega-arenas with a whole bunch of cash as the reason.

I highly doubt this would become a huge tour---New Order haven't got any new songs they could play (unless we're talking about those unreleased WFTSC). It just isn't very likely in New Order's case. And maybe while Hooky might let them play together under the New Order name for a few charity gigs, I doubt he'd like it or allow it to become a huge tour or a permanent reformation. So I'm not cynical about the situation.

Housey wrote:

Ben wrote: And was it New Order without Gillian?

See, this is my issue. The NO Facebook announcement has all these people hollering that IT'S NOT NEW ORDER WITHOUT HOOKY, and that's a fair point, but when Gillian left, you didn't hear a huge outcry that IT WASN'T NEW ORDER. Granted, the circumstances of Gillian leaving are VERY different from Hooky's (in other words, she wasn't going to sue them for continuing as "New Order"), but I don't get how Hooky is so much more integral to New Order than Gillian is. If anything, the past few years have shown that she did a lot more during the 80's than make the damn tea.

Agreed. I'm noticing that too on Twitter posts and some people are saying 'I'm not going because Hooky's not there', or 'It's not New Order without Hooky'. Then again, I never heard of Gillian threatening legal action if the other three continued under the name New Order (or even added a replacement- Phil), but when Hooky left, he seemed to imply/say that maybe legal action could happen if Stephen, Bernard & Phil continued as New Order.

Hooky might be tempted to turn up , 45 euros a ticket!!! On sale 10 am on the 9th sep. Paris

Glad to see the forum is back in full swing..

leather_girl wrote:

mark reed wrote:

It's solely for a charitable cause, for now.

I've seen bands reform for a one-off charitable show, that then becomes a 40 date world tour of mega-arenas with a whole bunch of cash as the reason.

I highly doubt this would become a huge tour---New Order haven't got any new songs they could play (unless we're talking about those unreleased WFTSC). It just isn't very likely in New Order's case. And maybe while Hooky might let them play together under the New Order name for a few charity gigs, I doubt he'd like it or allow it to become a huge tour or a permanent reformation. So I'm not cynical about the situation.

..never say never dear.. ;)

45 'ckin Euros? and in Paris?

hmmm.

Brussels. Pre Sale 9th Sept - 10am. €42.

http://www.abconcerts.be/en/concerts/p/detail/new-order-17-10-2011

Some info on the Bataclan...Link

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Since it's not an album-backing gig, they should really throw some interesting and challenging songs in to the setlist.

As it's for Shamberg, maybe some of the songs he was involved with producing the videos?

Not sure which they are. Anyone got a list?

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Ben wrote:

phillip lockhart wrote: ....BUT its not New Order without Hooky....end of..

And was it New Order without Gillian?

Exactly.

Gillian was just as important to New Order's sound as Hooky. I liked Gillian's synths before I liked Hooky's bass.

Hooky quit. They other want to continue. He made his decision.

Are you serious?

No UK, why? Cause of Hooky's protests reasons???

Big Mouth Julio wrote: No UK, why? Cause of Hooky's protests reasons???

They divided the globe accordingly. New Order were left with a few countries here and there :)

ewok wrote: Brussels. Pre Sale 9th Sept - 10am. €42.

What does "pre-sale" mean???????

Is it direct from venue before it goes to agents?

Big Mouth Julio wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Ben wrote:

phillip lockhart wrote: ....BUT its not New Order without Hooky....end of..

And was it New Order without Gillian?

Exactly.

Gillian was just as important to New Order's sound as Hooky. I liked Gillian's synths before I liked Hooky's bass.

Hooky quit. They other want to continue. He made his decision.

Are you serious?

I sure am. Hard for you to comprehend that Hooky isn't the only reason some people love New Order, isn't it?

Dave Fox wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Since it's not an album-backing gig, they should really throw some interesting and challenging songs in to the setlist.

As it's for Shamberg, maybe some of the songs he was involved with producing the videos?

Not sure which they are. Anyone got a list?

According to the interview on the 316 DVD [which Shamberg himself filmed] True Faith, TBTHOG & Regret. Not sure if there are any others.

everyoneverywhere wrote:

Dave Fox wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Since it's not an album-backing gig, they should really throw some interesting and challenging songs in to the setlist.

As it's for Shamberg, maybe some of the songs he was involved with producing the videos?

Not sure which they are. Anyone got a list?

According to the interview on the 316 DVD [which Shamberg himself filmed] True Faith, TBTHOG & Regret. Not sure if there are any others.

He did produce and worked on nearly every New Order's videos. For more infos, you should read THIS

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Ben wrote:

phillip lockhart wrote: ....BUT its not New Order without Hooky....end of..

And was it New Order without Gillian?

erm...it was New Order before Giliian joined up..DUH

Yeah but she joined within 6 months of the formation of the band and was there when it (they) mattered,by the way if Peter Hook has only a 20% say in New Order decisions now does that mean Phil Cunningham has an equal say..

Possibly touring as New order in Brussels/paris to avoid british legals, (Hooky would have to instigate procedings abroad,, when hese, well abroad).. If this is true I may well be tempted,, and yes this time Neworder only.... not even Love will tear us apart........cmon.

were changing our ways.

Studio Parris Wakefield just revealed the poster for the October gig:

Very simple and easy to understand poster...

Isn't it funny? They have never put names on a poster. But now... is it to piss off Hooky? BTW, the other guy is not mentioned, which means you know what? That the spot is still open... ;)

True, why isn't Tom Chapman on the poster?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Isn't it funny? They have never put names on a poster. But now... is it to piss off Hooky? BTW, the other guy is not mentioned, which means you know what? That the spot is still open... ;)

Is this a legal thing? Are they now not called 'New Order' but are actually called 'Bernard Summer, Stephen Morris, Gillian Gilbert, Phil Cunningham, New Order' ?

Any link where you can buy tickets? I know it starts on Friday, but I think you have to be quick on this one...

Gary wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Isn't it funny? They have never put names on a poster. But now... is it to piss off Hooky? BTW, the other guy is not mentioned, which means you know what? That the spot is still open... ;)

Is this a legal thing? Are they now not called 'New Order' but are actually called 'Bernard Summer, Stephen Morris, Gillian Gilbert, Phil Cunningham, New Order' ?

Or maybe they just want to say who are the members...but that wouldn't explain Tom Chapman's name not on there. Or maybe they didn't put his name because he never was a member of New Order, but the others were at one point (in other words, Tom being a supporting/touring member).

I think the names are to indicate that this is the majority of the original line up playing the shows....

As for Tom....I don't think that Tom has any intention of trying to actually replace Hooky, simply, he is there to play Hooky's parts. I've actually talked with Tom Chapman on Myspace quite a bit in the past, he is a really nice fellow, quite down to Earth and friendly. I doubt he himself would truly consider himself a replacement for Hooky.

everyoneverywhere wrote: True, why isn't Tom Chapman on the poster?

To stop the majority asking "Who the fuck is Tom Chapman?"

I've actually talked with Tom Chapman on Myspace quite a bit in the past, he is a really nice fellow, quite down to Earth and friendly.

This is an incredible statement.

I mean - People are still using myspace?

Jonny Donepoindatgunname wrote:

I've actually talked with Tom Chapman on Myspace quite a bit in the past, he is a really nice fellow, quite down to Earth and friendly.

This is an incredible statement.

I mean - People are still using myspace?

This was right after Bad Loo's first string of dates, people were still using it then. Chatted a bit with Roger Lyons and Hooky on there in 2007. Nice chaps all!

Back in the summer of '83, after college, I went uninvited to the offices of Factory Records US on Spring Street in NYC seeking employment. I was greeted by Michael Shamberg who was warm and receptive. He put me to work right away, packing VHS tapes for mailing. Of course, this was indie music world and I was doing all this for free.

I spent some time with Michael. He introduced me to the joys of saki and turned me on to the film "Sans Soleil" by Chris Marker. My time at Factory US was short-lived (as was the label) but I was happy to see Michael continue to work with NO on their videos. The Jonathan Demme-directed "Perfect Kiss" video is one of the all time greats.

drewo wrote: Back in the summer of '83, after college, I went uninvited to the offices of Factory Records US on Spring Street in NYC seeking employment. I was greeted by Michael Shamberg who was warm and receptive. He put me to work right away, packing VHS tapes for mailing. Of course, this was indie music world and I was doing all this for free.

I spent some time with Michael. He introduced me to the joys of saki and turned me on to the film "Sans Soleil" by Chris Marker. My time at Factory US was short-lived (as was the label) but I was happy to see Michael continue to work with NO on their videos. The Jonathan Demme-directed "Perfect Kiss" video is one of the all time greats.

Great story, and thanks for sharing that. I'm glad that New Order is doing this for Michael Shamberg. He seems like a really cool behind-the-scenes guy.

I should think the poster is to ensure that no one tries to claim money back after the show on the grounds that it isn't the full line up of New Order, makng it perfectly clear that Peter Hook is not involved, not to piss him off, they may not get on and have a few unkind remarks, but I don't think they'd be that silly.

Also it would be very nice if Hooky could be added later

Tend to agree with Jed above that its more to do with not having to pay a shit load out to punters ( a la Arsenal!) who think hooky still in band...be interesting to know if out in it or Barney playing mind games ...

I'm trying to be more moderate, I know (as does everyone else) that i'm more n Hookys side n things, but the thing I would like most is to see them all play together agan, it isn't the same without Hooky, it wasn't the same when Gillian left, and I thought at the time they should have stuck with their original ethos and changed the name, but I should think Warners will have had something to say about that.

it would also be interesting to hear what they could come up with with Gillian and Phil on board, but without Hooky i think any release should not be under the New Order name.

With little enthusiasm on here for a new BL release apart from people hoping it would be more synthesier based than the first effort (i.e. sound more like New Order) possibly they have quietly shelved BL and are waiting to see how the gigs are received before taking the next step which could be if all goes to plan more New Order gigs next year... If Bernard could during any interviews in the coming weeks refrain from slagging off Peter Hook I think that would be a welcome development.

I used to think a New Order without Hooky was a daft concept but......I think Hooky has done himself no favours these last few years.

He has (rightly or wrongly) fully capitalised on his part in JD/NO to the max. The remaining members of NO may have just thought f*** it lets do it again without Hooky and get a piece of the action (assuming more gigs come after these charity ones).

The way this has been announced is in a very authentic "New Order" way. 2 dates announced out of the blue, no other info forthcoming. Feels kind of right and I never thought I would feel like that.

A hookyless New Order is way better than the soap opera we have all endured as sorry-assed fans these last few years.

NotAMod wrote: As much as I love the guy's work, he has by far been the mouthiest in interview for years regarding New Order. He sounds like he has an bitter axe to grind and it doesn't come across well.

I can't really recall Bernard slagging Hooky off personally. He's slagged some of what Hooky's done in terms of business recently but nothing that personal...

It's just that in recent interviews Hooky seems to genuinely regret how he handled matters at the time of the split and that came across in the Clash interview also (despite calling Bernard a twat),the idea of Seeing New Order on stage with no Hooky in his usual position will seem pretty odd to me at least,I am still tempted to go see them though.

cranelane wrote: It's just that in recent interviews Hooky seems to genuinely regret how he handled matters at the time of the split and that came across in the Clash interview also (despite calling Bernard a twat),the idea of Seeing New Order on stage with no Hooky in his usual position will seem pretty odd to me at least,I am still tempted to go see them though.

If he regrets it he should tell the band that and not every tom, dick and harry journalist.

Hooky left. There was no official split.

I would love to see him back up there as much as anyone but he has shot his bolt.

Tock wrote:

cranelane wrote: It's just that in recent interviews Hooky seems to genuinely regret how he handled matters at the time of the split and that came across in the Clash interview also (despite calling Bernard a twat),the idea of Seeing New Order on stage with no Hooky in his usual position will seem pretty odd to me at least,I am still tempted to go see them though.

If he regrets it he should tell the band that and not every tom, dick and harry journalist.

Hooky left. There was no official split.

I would love to see him back up there as much as anyone but he has shot his bolt.

Couldn't agree more. Hooky left the band unilaterally and the threw a tizzy when they tried to go on without him. Also, as I've mentioned elsewhere, it can't be coincidence that Bernard, Steve, Gillian, Phil, the old New Order management and the old New Order road crew continue to work together whilst Hooky is the lone outsider.

sorry couldn't resist.

http://youtu.be/JpuRDTiaBos

i thought at least he'd come back in time after the guitar bit!

Hooky was for the longest while my favourite member of Neworder and the one who seemed to care about the band the most. He is the only member of the band I've met and been out for a drink with - he was a very nice, open and generous bloke to all who came over asking him (for) stuff.

Like many, I have been saddened, angered and bored by the soap-operatic 'split' - only Linus ;) seems to have come out of it without acting like an arse at some point.

I actually welcome this Neworder v4 (approx) even if it is (so far) just for a couple of gigs to help a mate. I would be interested in seeing them if I got chance.

I've not really got much interest in watching Mostly Monaco doing JD covers, much as Old Leadfoot, Jack et al seem like good lads who genuinely enjoy what they're doing.

The ideal solution, to me, would be some form of reconciliation between the 4 true Neworder members but I don't believe in Father Christmas. The next best solution is a true split. Hooky does whatever he wants with his legacy and allows The Other 3 (plus Phil) to go about their future as Neworder, who in turn keep their thoughts on Mr Hook to themselves.

In any event, it's great to have Gillian back.

Rorschach wrote: Hooky was for the longest while my favourite member of Neworder and the one who seemed to care about the band the most. He is the only member of the band I've met and been out for a drink with - he was a very nice, open and generous bloke to all who came over asking him (for) stuff.

Like many, I have been saddened, angered and bored by the soap-operatic 'split' - only Linus ;) seems to have come out of it without acting like an arse at some point.

I actually welcome this Neworder v4 (approx) even if it is (so far) just for a couple of gigs to help a mate. I would be interested in seeing them if I got chance.

I've not really got much interest in watching Mostly Monaco doing JD covers, much as Old Leadfoot, Jack et al seem like good lads who genuinely enjoy what they're doing.

The ideal solution, to me, would be some form of reconciliation between the 4 true Neworder members but I don't believe in Father Christmas. The next best solution is a true split. Hooky does whatever he wants with his legacy and allows The Other 3 (plus Phil) to go about their future as Neworder, who in turn keep their thoughts on Mr Hook to themselves.

In any event, it's great to have Gillian back.

Well said. Hooky will always be my fave too and despite my reservations I too have nothing against The Light doing their thing anymore. Loads of people lap it up and this is all about entertainment at the end of the day.

I do still hanker after new material though from all of the members. If No Hook Order decide to make a go of this I hope they can pull something amazing out of the bag.

They will have a lot to prove and the spat etc may have given them an edge again.

If they do comeback for good I think they will legitimise it with new material and will not simply tour the hits ad infinitum.

I think I read somewhere that Steve Morris had started experimenting again with old "real" synths/samplers etc rather than purely computer based stuff. That and his work with Factory Floor may have given them a new lease of life.

Here's hopin.

Good to see the forums busy again!:D

The most sensible thing I have read amongst all this rubbish. Yes Gillian was a damn site more important to NO than hooky every was / will be - anyone can play the base !

Housey wrote:

Ben wrote: And was it New Order without Gillian?

See, this is my issue. The NO Facebook announcement has all these people hollering that IT'S NOT NEW ORDER WITHOUT HOOKY, and that's a fair point, but when Gillian left, you didn't hear a huge outcry that IT WASN'T NEW ORDER. Granted, the circumstances of Gillian leaving are VERY different from Hooky's (in other words, she wasn't going to sue them for continuing as "New Order"), but I don't get how Hooky is so much more integral to New Order than Gillian is. If anything, the past few years have shown that she did a lot more during the 80's than make the damn tea.

SORRY THIS IS THE MOST SENSIBLE THING I HAVE READ SO FAR. HOOKY GROW UP - YOU LEFT - DEAL WITH IT

SHED wrote: Good to see the forums busy again!:D

Well, lot's of New Order news I guess brings everyone out again.

That's cool that Gillian is back, but I think it's more of a tactical move. 3 members, 3 votes and all that shit.

Tarbox23 wrote: so if gillian is in, why they need phil?

To keep the testosterone levels up ! LOL

The Paradise Man wrote:

Tarbox23 wrote: so if gillian is in, why they need phil?

Because he can actually play the guitar?

cheeky bugger !

TOOTS wrote: The most sensible thing I have read amongst all this rubbish. Yes Gillian was a damn site more important to NO than hooky every was / will be - anyone can play the base !

It's obvious that you could never play the bass, as you can't even spell it!

Rorschach wrote: In any event, it's great to have Gillian back.

That's the spirit. It was never the same without her...

condemnation wrote:

TOOTS wrote: The most sensible thing I have read amongst all this rubbish. Yes Gillian was a damn site more important to NO than hooky every was / will be - anyone can play the base !

It's obvious that you could never play the bass, as you can't even spell it!

O.K.. Page of the venue is bookmarked, alarm clock is set, credit card ready...

So please leave two tickets (Belgium) for me folks.

Bere wrote: O.K.. Page of the venue is bookmarked, alarm clock is set, credit card ready...

So please leave two tickets (Belgium) for me folks.

Good luck!

condemnation wrote:

SHED wrote: Good to see the forums busy again!:D

Well, lot's of New Order news I guess brings everyone out again.

That's cool that Gillian is back, but I think it's more of a tactical move. 3 members, 3 votes and all that shit.

I'm glad she is back too and I hope it's not just for tactical reasons,with her and Phil on board there should be less reliance on "backing tapes", and I hope she is involved in any new music that they put together which will may well be under the name New Order. As for comparing the relative contributions of Gillian and Hooky,lets just say the band was best when both were involved.

TOOTS wrote: The most sensible thing I have read amongst all this rubbish. Yes Gillian was a damn site more important to NO than hooky every was / will be - anyone can play the base !

And me (might have to change my user name or they might not sell me a ticket). Any chance someone on here could act as a broker for any spares???

TOOTS wrote:

Housey wrote:

Ben wrote: And was it New Order without Gillian?

See, this is my issue. The NO Facebook announcement has all these people hollering that IT'S NOT NEW ORDER WITHOUT HOOKY, and that's a fair point, but when Gillian left, you didn't hear a huge outcry that IT WASN'T NEW ORDER. Granted, the circumstances of Gillian leaving are VERY different from Hooky's (in other words, she wasn't going to sue them for continuing as "New Order"), but I don't get how Hooky is so much more integral to New Order than Gillian is. If anything, the past few years have shown that she did a lot more during the 80's than make the damn tea.

SORRY THIS IS THE MOST SENSIBLE THING I HAVE READ SO FAR.

Thanks, Steve.

I personally was disappointed when Gillian left (I found Phil an adequate but uninspiring replacement) but I think due to the circumstances no-one would've questioned anything about it.

In fact I cant be arsed with replying anymore.

At different points they've all acted like twats of varying degrees, this could end up being another illustration of it.

Rob Gretton wouldnt have let it get this bad, even if it meant banging some heads together.

Im going to petition for Kon Kan to reform instead.

Just realised that it is as long since New Order last played live as the Reading '93 - Apollo '98 hiatus, which felt like a bastarding life time back then............

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Isn't it funny? They have never put names on a poster. But now... is it to piss off Hooky? BTW, the other guy is not mentioned, which means you know what? That the spot is still open... ;)

It's not the first time though, back in 1993 when Republic was being promoted the credits listed the four members for the first time ever (along with Stephen Hague) ...prior to (and after) that it was always New Order the band name......

GlasVegas wrote:

Gene wrote: No Hooky. But, perhaps, this is the best opportunity for a kiss and make-up.

I cant quite get me head round how this is New Order and not Bad Loo, though.

Does that make me a bad person?

It's a bit like when David Gedge said 'right we're not called Cinerama anymore, we're called The Wedding Present. Again. Same members, we just won't play the Cinerama shite that nobody was interested in anyway'

At least that funny lookin wee guy from BL that looked like a 90's throwback with his Noel-hair isn't involved. That would've put me off my for sure. Couldn't even tell you waht the bass player looked like.

And..........let's not forget, Mac and Will Sergeant from the Bunnymen were recording / touring under the Electrafixion name in the mid 90s until the Bunnymen properly reformed with Les Pattinson....then when he left again it was back to Mac and Will....but this time, instead of reverting back to Electrafixion, they decided to continue as the [core of] Echo and the Bunnymen anyway......

so given that it is billed as new order can we take it as read that there will be no bad ltnt songs?

(though wouldnt mind if they kept temptation/ out of control)

Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events

http://peterhook.co.uk/#/news/peter-hook-responds-to-this-week-s-events

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

Are you ROCKET in DISGUISE?

starion wrote: Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events http://peterhook.co.uk/#/news/peter-hook-responds-to-this-week-s-events

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Studio Parris Wakefield just revealed the poster for the October gig:

Geeky question, but have they used that font before? reminds me of the Palatine boxset.

Wasn't quite as much panic when Gillian left...

UpDownTurnAround wrote: Wasn't quite as much panic when Gillian left...

Totally correct there!

Anyone got a spare Paris ticket up for grabs?

Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

Eh, I'm primarily a Steve/Gillian fan, so if neither one was there, I probably wouldn't go. But that's me.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

New Order is not SOLEY Bernard, and I doubt man of us here think that.

But....

Bernard Sumner is the main songwriter in New Order, he is also the main musical director of the band, he has handled a lot of the production in the band, and his direction of steering New Order towards Electro and Disco brought them success. Bernard was also the musical director of Joy Division, he did a lot of the song arrangements, as have been stated in several interviews with the band.

So no, New Order isn't Bernard, but he has been the guiding force behind the band since Ian died. Hooky's distinctive bass playing, Steve's drumming and programming, and Gillian's synth symphonies are no less important. But Bernard brought them all together by generating a lot of the song ideas and being the bands musical director.

Many, many interviews confirm this. In the Sound on Sound article about the making of Technique, that albums engineer talks about how Bernard was the main guiding and creative force in the group.

When you listen to the solo projects of the four members, you can hear what they bring to the table.

Listen to Electronic, you will hear that Bernard brings the songs, the song writing, the melodies, and the voice.

Listen to The Other Two, you will hear that Steve brought the intricate programming and drumming, and Gillian brought the strong pop melodies on the synths.

Listen to Revenge and Monaco, you will hear what Hooky brought, overlaying all of the above with his distinctive bass melodies. If you listen to New Order songs, and analyze their construction, it is apparent that Hooky would come in after a song was finished and jam his bass line over top. obviously there were exceptions to this, such as Age of Consent, which probably originated with Hooky's bass line. For the record, I also love Hooky's voice on the first Revenge album. And I still think he is a cool guy.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

New Order is not SOLEY Bernard, and I doubt man of us here think that.

But....

Bernard Sumner is the main songwriter in New Order, he is also the main musical director of the band, he has handled a lot of the production in the band, and his direction of steering New Order towards Electro and Disco brought them success. Bernard was also the musical director of Joy Division, he did a lot of the song arrangements, as have been stated in several interviews with the band.

So no, New Order isn't Bernard, but he has been the guiding force behind the band since Ian died. Hooky's distinctive bass playing, Steve's drumming and programming, and Gillian's synth symphonies are no less important. But Bernard brought them all together by generating a lot of the song ideas and being the bands musical director.

Many, many interviews confirm this. In the Sound on Sound article about the making of Technique, that albums engineer talks about how Bernard was the main guiding and creative force in the group.

When you listen to the solo projects of the four members, you can hear what they bring to the table.

Listen to Electronic, you will hear that Bernard brings the songs, the song writing, the melodies, and the voice.

Listen to The Other Two, you will hear that Steve brought the intricate programming and drumming, and Gillian brought the strong pop melodies on the synths.

Listen to Revenge and Monaco, you will hear what Hooky brought, overlaying all of the above with his distinctive bass melodies. If you listen to New Order songs, and analyze their construction, it is apparent that Hooky would come in after a song was finished and jam his bass line over top. obviously there were exceptions to this, such as Age of Consent, which probably originated with Hooky's bass line. For the record, I also love Hooky's voice on the first Revenge album. And I still think he is a cool guy.

Starkey is generally right. I think Bernard is actually pretty gracious about his role in the songwriting. Besides Temptation, he's never come out and said "these are my lyrics and music." In Hooky's interviews, he talks up his songwriting a lot more, especially when it comes to Joy Division. He probably felt his role diminished over the years.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

New Order is not SOLEY Bernard, and I doubt man of us here think that.

But....

Bernard Sumner is the main songwriter in New Order, he is also the main musical director of the band, he has handled a lot of the production in the band, and his direction of steering New Order towards Electro and Disco brought them success. Bernard was also the musical director of Joy Division, he did a lot of the song arrangements, as have been stated in several interviews with the band.

So no, New Order isn't Bernard, but he has been the guiding force behind the band since Ian died. Hooky's distinctive bass playing, Steve's drumming and programming, and Gillian's synth symphonies are no less important. But Bernard brought them all together by generating a lot of the song ideas and being the bands musical director.

Many, many interviews confirm this. In the Sound on Sound article about the making of Technique, that albums engineer talks about how Bernard was the main guiding and creative force in the group.

When you listen to the solo projects of the four members, you can hear what they bring to the table.

Listen to Electronic, you will hear that Bernard brings the songs, the song writing, the melodies, and the voice.

Listen to The Other Two, you will hear that Steve brought the intricate programming and drumming, and Gillian brought the strong pop melodies on the synths.

Listen to Revenge and Monaco, you will hear what Hooky brought, overlaying all of the above with his distinctive bass melodies. If you listen to New Order songs, and analyze their construction, it is apparent that Hooky would come in after a song was finished and jam his bass line over top. obviously there were exceptions to this, such as Age of Consent, which probably originated with Hooky's bass line. For the record, I also love Hooky's voice on the first Revenge album. And I still think he is a cool guy.

I didn't mean to examine what really constituted the subtance of New Order, I merely wanted to explore the perception of some fans... That is, at what point New Order ceases to be New Order for them (as long as Bernard is in and sings NO tunes, it's NO for them, apparently).

But then we had Bad Loo, which is what this New Order consists of (plus Gillian). I remember when Never Cry Another Tear came out, most people were not amused. What if it was a New Order record? A frightening thought lol :)

But you provided very good points. Ah, I've been listening to them ALL all day today.

Would love have gone to one of these shows, too late to get a ticket now.... and also need permission from the Mrs! She would have to come and then we would need a baby sitter for a few days.. too complicated. Hopefully will play UK dates as well.

Going to see The Light at the Lowry in November and seen them already and it was a pretty special night. So I'm certainly not taking sides, but it be great to go to a new order concert again and hear nothing but new order tunes, hopefully a few that have not been aired for some time, Leave me Alone and Dream Attack for two to end the show.

Age of Consent for those of us who were still standing at the end of the 'last' show in Wolverhampton...:)

poorshakes wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Studio Parris Wakefield just revealed the poster for the October gig:

Geeky question, but have they used that font before? reminds me of the Palatine boxset.

This font looks like "Trebuchet". They haven't used it before.

more cool new order poster designs, pics and projects:

http://www.parriswakefield.com/page/latest-projects

later -1

-1 wrote: more cool new order poster designs, pics and projects:

http://www.parriswakefield.com/page/latest-projects

later -1

One interesting new cover on there (apologies if this has been covered elsewhere)is the Ceremony 2011 one. Do i smell a re-release?

NotAMod wrote: Yeah it was re-released as part of that independent "record store day".

Limited edition and 12" only.

lol oops. I'm just so forgetful.

Burt Burterson wrote:

NotAMod wrote: Yeah it was re-released as part of that independent "record store day".

Limited edition and 12" only.

lol oops. I'm just so forgetful.

RA TA TA TA TA TA TA TA EH Confusion...

SHED wrote:

Burt Burterson wrote:

NotAMod wrote: Yeah it was re-released as part of that independent "record store day".

Limited edition and 12" only.

lol oops. I'm just so forgetful.

RA TA TA TA TA TA TA TA EH Confusion...

Why CAN'T YOU SEE?

Bruuuue Mundaaee wrote: [quote user="poorshakes

Geeky question, but have they used that font before? reminds me of the Palatine boxset.

This font looks like "Trebuchet". They haven't used it before.

The font is Meta and was originally commissioned by Deutsche Bundespost.

PWS on the brief: "By using the font Meta, which has been described as a complete antithesis of Helvetica, it signals a NewOrder that is looking forward."

Perhaps a hint there's more to come?

Anyone recieved their tickets yet?

Bere wrote: Anyone recieved their tickets yet?

No

Would love to have gone, but..... Just emigrated to Australia, started new job etc. So to spend 2k+ pounds for flights, hotels, week off work and all is not on. Enjoyed Bad Loots gigs in Hamburg 09, Preston and Liverpool 10. Happily surprised by the Light in Eindhoven, May this year. Seen NewOrder dozens of times, from 81 on including the Apollo and Olympia("buffet" bar over the road!)comeback gigs. I am aware I may just miss something totally amazing.

I hope the lucky bastards, like you Nobby! with tickets have a ball.

Bere wrote Anyone recieved their tickets yet? .

Bought an e ticket ,so yes, very New order I thought.

pumped full of.

79 order wrote: Bere wrote Anyone recieved their tickets yet? .

Bought an e ticket ,so yes, very New order I thought.

pumped full of.

es are gud

79 order wrote: Bere wrote Anyone recieved their tickets yet? .

Bought an e ticket ,so yes, very New order I thought.

pumped full of.

E ticket? Did they have an option for that?

I'm still waiting for the postal service...

Bere wrote:

79 order wrote: Bere wrote Anyone recieved their tickets yet? .

Bought an e ticket ,so yes, very New order I thought.

pumped full of.

E ticket? Did they have an option for that?

I'm still waiting for the postal service...

rECORDED delivery here whilst i was OUT.Think i have 2 tickets for PARIS!

Mine's an E-Ticket