Bernard comes 4th in "most overrated lyricist" poll
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"It almost feels distasteful to pick on Sumner — it’s hard enough following in the footsteps of a remarkable lyricist like Ian Curtis, let alone when that lyricist happened to be a friend of yours who committed suicide. But still, Sumner’s put his lyrics out in the public domain, so it’s only fair to critique them, especially when it seems like no one else really does. To be fair to the singer, some of the lyrics work better in the context of the song than they do on paper — it’s only when you write out “I would like a place I could call my own/ Have a conversation on the telephone” that you look at it and start thinking about what a terrible couplet it is."
Most of Bernard's lyrics suck, especially in later years. That's why, in the early days, the occasional stroke of genius was, well, genius.
Top Ten..
- Lou Reed
- Paul Banks of Interpol
- Serj Tankian of System of a Down
- Bernard Sumner of New Order
- Matt Bellamy of Muse
- Conor Oberst
- Jim Morrison
- Robert Plant
- Chris Martin of Coldplay
- Bob Dylan
Bernard is actually in pretty illustrious company here..
There is also a top 150 songs of the last 15 years on nme.com which doesn't feature any song by New Order which again goes to show what the nme knows about anything
Most of Bernard's lyrics are a bit ropey in places but as far as I'm aware he's never been really been "rated" as a lyricist in the wider music press. He's never chased adulation for his words, has he? Seriously, when was the last time anyone read any publication raving about a New Order lyric? Hence his inclusion in this poll seems a bit silly, surely to be overrated you have to be er, rated first.
That is not to say that Barney hasn't written some pretty good lyrics in his time. He's definitely had his moments with much of Technique being up there - that 'death of a relationship' theme - it's pretty well done.
Disappointing Bono isn't in the top 10. He's written some right old preachy (overrated) shite in his time, without a doubt. I say that as a fan of some of U2's stuff as well.
Harsh. He's not 'overrated', I don't think anyone's ever had him down as an all time lyrical great, so if anything he's underrated cos when he has his good moments they are great (think Leave Me Alone / KW1 / Last verse of TPK / True Faith / 1963 / Vanishing Point)
And might I add the reason I like most of Bernard's lyrics isn't actually cos of the words themselves but because of his vocal melodies, which are often fantastic and fit in with the music brilliantly, reflecting his role as a , erm, you know, musician rather than an author.
Really, the lyrics don't mean that much to me, it's the music that counts.
NotAMod wrote: as far as I'm aware he's never been really been "rated" as a lyricist in the wider music press. He's never chased adulation for his words, has he? Seriously, when was the last time anyone read any publication raving about a New Order lyric? Hence his inclusion in this poll seems a bit silly, surely to be overrated you have to be er, rated first.
Yeah that's what i was gonna say. When's he ever been rated?
That's actually quite choice company he's in, nme's being useless as usual. More of a compliment than anything else, NO were never a lyrics band.
I actually think New Order's lyrics are quite good. OK, maybe not everything from WFTSC but a lot of the classic stuff is really good.
Who else in the 80's was writing catchy pop/rock songs about drug addiction? Maybe their lyrics aren't earth-shattering but they fit the melancholic feel of a lot of the music brilliantly.
johnny wrote:
NotAMod wrote: as far as I'm aware he's never been really been "rated" as a lyricist in the wider music press. He's never chased adulation for his words, has he? Seriously, when was the last time anyone read any publication raving about a New Order lyric? Hence his inclusion in this poll seems a bit silly, surely to be overrated you have to be er, rated first.
Yeah that's what i was gonna say. When's he ever been rated?
Late to the party, but my thoughts, as well.
NotAMod wrote: Most of Bernard's lyrics are a bit ropey in places but as far as I'm aware he's never been really been "rated" as a lyricist in the wider music press. He's never chased adulation for his words, has he? Seriously, when was the last time anyone read any publication raving about a New Order lyric? Hence his inclusion in this poll seems a bit silly, surely to be overrated you have to be er, rated first.
That is not to say that Barney hasn't written some pretty good lyrics in his time. He's definitely had his moments with much of Technique being up there - that 'death of a relationship' theme - it's pretty well done.
Disappointing Bono isn't in the top 10. He's written some right old preachy (overrated) shite in his time, without a doubt. I say that as a fan of some of U2's stuff as well.
Sounds they have no clue what 'overrated' means. Hardly anybody thinks of Bernard Sumner as a talented lyricist or a poet.
I agree with most of the names on that list, but Jim Morrison!!!!!!!! WTF.
That's just shit!
Eh, Jim Morrison IS pretty overrated. I remember everybody in college had these JIM MORRISON: AMERICAN POET posters and I would think, "'there's a killer on the road/his brain is squirming like a toad'?"
Housey wrote: Eh, Jim Morrison IS pretty overrated. I remember everybody in college had these JIM MORRISON: AMERICAN POET posters and I would think, "'there's a killer on the road/his brain is squirming like a toad'?"
Backpacking in the Sinai desert in Egypt, 1993 with my brother and a mate and they kept listening to The Doors and going on about what great lyrics Morrison wrote
I quite like a lot of Doors stuff but i dunno, it was just grating when people rave about Morrison's naff poetry
Although "Out here in the perimeter there are no stars" did kind of suit in the Sinai desert at night i suppose.I'm contradicting myself apallingly now so i'll stop.
Bob Dylan - I admit I've never sat and listened to a whole album, but- what I have heard - his appeal is a complete mystery to me. It seems he just put in phrases and words that sound 'folky', 'old-timey', 'rootsy' to trick people into thinking 'wow, he's so deep' when the lyrics don't actually add up to anything.
Come on, Bernard's an amazing lyricist.
"If you don't change your ways You'll end up here with........neon rays".
Oh.
True Faith is up there with the very best lyrics of any pop song in my opinion but i dont really think it will annoy bernard to any great extent being on this list. I suppose if bernard did as morrissey does i.e collect turns of phrase and write them down you may see an improvement but the music is more important.
I think one of the reasons I liked New Order or The Fall back years ago was the lack of rock pretension in the lyrics or vocals. No BS posturing that this is great poetry or larger than life singing, it is all subjective in the end anyway. Bernard has seemed to take himself more seriously post Factory, not sure that his lyrics hold up in a more straightforward vein.
Bernard's songwriting has seemed like he had a piece of paper with blank spaces to fill in like a word puzzle. Start it off with a "hey now" and fill in the blanks. Get a few lines working, then fill in the other blanks with something that rhymes. Just seems too obvious in the 00's songs.
"Blank blank blank Blank blank blank blank Blank blank blank Blank blank blank blank
Blank blank blank blank blank
Blank blank blank Blank blank blank blank Blank blank blank Blank blank blank blank
Blank blank blank blank blank"
Brian Hyphen wrote: Come on, Bernard's an amazing lyricist.
"If you don't change your ways You'll end up here with........neon rays".
Oh.
I thought it was 'with me unraised'
granted, that's not a real word, but it would suit Bernard then, wouldn't it?
Your country is a wonderful place,it pales my England into disgrace...to buy a drink there is so much more reasonable,I think I'll go there when it gets seasonable.
Beat dat,Yeats.
Poet Laureate 
Crikey.
cranelane wrote: Top Ten..
- Lou Reed
- Paul Banks of Interpol
- Serj Tankian of System of a Down
- Bernard Sumner of New Order
- Matt Bellamy of Muse
- Conor Oberst
- Jim Morrison
- Robert Plant
- Chris Martin of Coldplay
- Bob Dylan
Bernard is actually in pretty illustrious company here.. There is also a top 150 songs of the last 15 years on nme.com which doesn't feature any song by New Order which again goes to show what the nme knows about anything
what a ridiculous top ten aside from bob & jim are any of the others seen as good lyricists by anyone? bright eyes is more of a musician than lyrics guy, martin is a dull as dishwater old fart, a bono lite, bellamy? dont make me laugh & as for banks? come off it never heard of the guy in second (have heard of the band but i could have been guessing names all day & not got that right, but surely that band dont work in a genre known for its poetry)
& barney has been mentioned below
Boatraceface wrote: Your country is a wonderful place,it pales my England into disgrace...to buy a drink there is so much more reasonable,I think I'll go there when it gets seasonable.
Beat dat,Yeats.
Poet Laureate
Crikey.
was thinking the same myself, haha.
JV wrote:
Brian Hyphen wrote: Come on, Bernard's an amazing lyricist.
"If you don't change your ways You'll end up here with........neon rays".
Oh.
I thought it was 'with me unraised'
I always heard it as:
"If you don't change your ways You'll end up here with me one day".
Makes no sense but his lyrics rarely do 
