New Order : Lost Sirens LP+CD

http://www.recordshopx.com/artist/new_order/lost_sirens_lp_cd/ Release date: 14.12.2011. Product will be shipped a day before the release date.

Just in time for Christmas!

Happy Christmas

Like the cover too!

Only cos - crucially - there's no trace of the pesky white on first impressions.

Reminds me also of the old PSB remix album "Introspective" in a way - a reconfigured version of it.

Fake.

Would it really be released on a Wednesday?

HMV Japan (English) current release date is 06 Dec 2011 Catalogue Number : 2564.66271 Format : LP Label : Rhino Issued : 06 Dec 2011 Item sourced from : Europe Number of Discs : 1 Other : +CD, Limited (First Edition)

James Kaye wrote: Would it really be released on a Wednesday?

That's what i thought

Though probably will in Japan. Is that their main release day?

http://www.koule.cz/cs/rychlovky/new-order-vydavaji-minialbum-the-lost-sirens-24426.shtml Seznam skladeb: A: I’ll Stay with You, Sugarcane, Recoil, Californian Grass B: Hellbent, Shake It Up, I’ve Got A Feeling, I Told You So

Where's Sister+Brother? Did they change its name?

Boring Being wrote: Where's Sister+Brother? Did they change its name?

"I'll Stay With You", surely? You know, New Order always uses the first line of the chorus as the title of the song. Brilliant song though, if the Light live rendition is anything to go by.

...but "I've Got A Feeling", isn't that a Monaco song? And "I Told You So", haven't we (unfortunately) heard that one already?

Amazon Japan (English) This title will be released on December 6, 2011 Number of Discs: 2 Format: Import, from UK Label: RHINO UK

Why is "I Told You So" - one of the crappiest NO tunes ever (on a par with Jizzstream) on this album? Is it to make up the numbers? Probably.

Talk about pissing on their own shoes yet again.

A 7 track mini album of previously unreleased material is sufficient.

Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Mondays, Japan release over rest of world release... releases always get a bit foggy and murky over December/Christmas. I'll check back in the new year when hopefully all will be much clearer.All seems a bit dodgy and murky information/ song titles/cover art at the moment

Hot DAMN!

First - Hooky comes to Hollywood for an album signing on my birthday

Second - NO releases EP when I'll be in Japan in December right when this is coming out(first time in 12 years)

Things are looking up, now just need an NO tour coming round San Diego or Los Angeles... can't believe how much my luck with NO has been changing recently.

*but I will have to disagree on the cover... think it looks lazy and shite

I'm interested in hearing Sugarcane, I remember when the album itself was rumoured to be called Sugarcane...

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

This title will be released on December 6, 2011

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

Release date: 14.12.2011.

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

Number of Discs : 1

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

Number of Discs: 2

Right.

I'm amazed at the negative comments about "I Told You So" - it's not the first time I've heard it said.

It's a stand out track for me - I absolutely love it. Can't figure out why people don't like it!

First time I spun WFTSC in the car, "I Told You So" stood out for me. And I still love it. Was going to remix it but with so many negative comments about it I'm wondering is it worth it?

Brian Hyphen wrote: I'm amazed at the negative comments about "I Told You So" - it's not the first time I've heard it said.

It's a stand out track for me - I absolutely love it. Can't figure out why people don't like it!

First time I spun WFTSC in the car, "I Told You So" stood out for me. And I still love it. Was going to remix it but with so many negative comments about it I'm wondering is it worth it?

I know that feeling, I like Hey Now What You Doing

johnny wrote:

James Kaye wrote: Would it really be released on a Wednesday?

That's what i thought

Though probably will in Japan. Is that their main release day?

I remember that Bad Loo's album was released on a Wednesday here.
As someone who hasn't got equipment to play vinyl and doesn't collect them, I don't want the LP. I just want the CD.

Brian Hyphen wrote: I'm amazed at the negative comments about "I Told You So" - it's not the first time I've heard it said.

It's a stand out track for me - I absolutely love it. Can't figure out why people don't like it!

First time I spun WFTSC in the car, "I Told You So" stood out for me. And I still love it. Was going to remix it but with so many negative comments about it I'm wondering is it worth it?

Cos it sounds like UB40 at their most fucking turgid, that's why!!!!

Even Juggernaut is a far superior track to ITYS.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Cos it sounds like UB40 at their most fucking turgid, that's why!!!!

The bastard offspring of UB40 and Ace Of Base... A true abomination against nature...

Is it just me or is Lost Sirens an incredibly lazy title? How about Waiting For The Lawyers' Call?

Snorri xxx

Snorrimon wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Cos it sounds like UB40 at their most fucking turgid, that's why!!!!

The bastard offspring of UB40 and Ace Of Base... A true abomination against nature...

Is it just me or is Lost Sirens an incredibly lazy title? How about Waiting For The Lawyers' Call?

Snorri xxx

Would have been better if called the Lost Argonauts... since when do Sirens ever get lost?

Snorrimon wrote: How about Waiting For The Lawyers' Call?

Snorri xxx

As for I Told You So, well it has its redeemimg Velvets guitar and, and, and ,yeah.... the Velvets redeeming guitar

Well I really liked the Stuart Price mix of I Told You So, and I bet that's the version they've put on here. Previously only physically available on the 12 x 12"s, so some people won't own it. If I understand this correctly, and the cd is 2 discs, shall we wager that some of the other 12 x 12"s mixes that haven't been otherwise released will be on the second disc? If not, what else? Live stuff?

oh and the sleeve looks somewhat reminiscent of the Clash Magazine cover IMO. Not a criticism, as I liked that cover.

Snorrimon wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Cos it sounds like UB40 at their most fucking turgid, that's why!!!!

The bastard offspring of UB40 and Ace Of Base... A true abomination against nature...

Is it just me or is Lost Sirens an incredibly lazy title? How about Waiting For The Lawyers' Call?

Snorri xxx

Or Waiting For Our Zimmer Frames....

I guess the "2 discs" edition is the limited "LP+CD" release.

Brian Hyphen wrote: I'm amazed at the negative comments about "I Told You So" - it's not the first time I've heard it said.

It's a stand out track for me - I absolutely love it. Can't figure out why people don't like it!

First time I spun WFTSC in the car, "I Told You So" stood out for me. And I still love it. Was going to remix it but with so many negative comments about it I'm wondering is it worth it?

Yes, "I Told You So" is a good one! I'd love to hear your remix.

But "Jetstream" and "Working Overtime", however...

I hate/ love Whisky

Debaser wrote: Well I really liked the Stuart Price mix of I Told You So, and I bet that's the version they've put on here. Previously only physically available on the 12 x 12"s, so some people won't own it. If I understand this correctly, and the cd is 2 discs, shall we wager that some of the other 12 x 12"s mixes that haven't been otherwise released will be on the second disc? If not, what else? Live stuff?

Think the idea here is one vinyl disc and one CD. Maybe they will have all sorts of editions to make it collectible, since a short CD may not sell much. I think we need a bonus disc with Gillian doing remixes of WFTSC + Lost Sirens tracks. Why the hell not? Get her involved.

The cover might be a highly pixelated version of the WFTSC single cover. The beige square is her nice arse, the pink-red is the flower on top of her head. The black is her tit in shadow and her hair. The olive drab is the trees, the blue the water, the yellow the sun up above.

Compare...

So it does seem to be 1CD and 1vinyl then...I wouldn't be able to play the vinyl if there's any music on it ..unless a different edition is coming out with just the music on a CD...not a vinyl record that takes up space and that I can't play....

I wonder if they will perform one of the tracks at the Troxy!

That's solved what to ask Santa for this year! Not that he ever bothers with me the sod, too busy coming in kids' rooms and offering them sweeties and unloading his sack... Incidentally are these officially alternative titles? They were posted in a similar thread: 1 - Sugarcane (here) 2 - Madonna (Hellbent?) 3 - Brothers & Sisters (I'll Stay With You) 4 - Mending a Broked Heart 5 - Global Trekker 6 - It's a dream Sequence 7 - A circle around your heart. I'm a sucker (tee hee) for alternative titles but then I'm sad ain't I! PS I think Hooky spun track 3 as a DJ 5 years back...?

Well, well, well. This seems a little exploitative : can't they just stick out a CD with the 8 songs at say, £7?

If 'I Told You So' isnt a remix then its inclusion, along with 'Hellbent', makes this as big a waste of time as 'Total'.

I'll get the ones I dont have from iTunes.

Wasn't the remix reworked with some new singing and geetar from BS?

cool cover..

an actual release. finally. wonder if the US version will have an extra track or t-shirt or something?

later -1

I would have liked a return to the one word album titles, but what they've come up with is ok, reminiscent of Doves' Lost Souls/Lost Sides

Looks like it's time to dust of my record player... Told you so sucks but I'm a sucker anyway...glad I haven't bought Total now Hellbent's on this one! Sirens can get lost if they're air raid sirens and not mythical beings.

Is anyone on here reeeally going to wait til Christmas (or Boxing Day if Christmas day is busy) before they get their mits/ears around this? BOLLOX! I won't ask anyone to give this to me as a present. I'll be straight down HMV on release day to ensure i get my "limited" two disc version. And by the time I get home that night, i bet everyone waiting til Chrsitmas will already have been on here with their comments (i.e. criticisms!) of the new (well, six year old) oeuvre.

Now, if in fact two discs means 1 vinyl and 1 cd, are we to assume the same music will be on both? Surely it would be cheaper and more logical for warners to sell us one or the other? Unless it's going to be like Steven & Gillian's Swing thing?

Debaser wrote:

Now, if in fact two discs means 1 vinyl and 1 cd, are we to assume the same music will be on both? Surely it would be cheaper and more logical for warners to sell us one or the other? Unless it's going to be like Steven & Gillian's Swing thing?

I'm still unsure about the LP+CD situation. If the same music are on both, I wouldn't know what to do with a vinyl that I can't use, but I'll use the CD to listen to it and put it on my iPod. If different music are on the LP and CD, that's worse because I wouldn't be able to listen to whatever was on the LP. If the situation was that the 'Lost Sirens' was on the LP, and a remastered version of WFTSC on CD...then I wouldn't be interested any more because I already have two copies of WFTSC (Japanese and US Import)...

I like the fact that they seem to release it as a proper record. A complementary cd version or free download is pretty common with new vinyl releases. Looking forward to this.

I wonder what 'new' track they'll play the 10th.

I've got a record deck so will look forward to playing the vinyl:)

Likewise... I'm really liking a lot of new releases that are on vinyl but include a download code so you can get digital versions for your MP3 player... If I buy anything on CD nowadays, it tends to go straight onto the computer and then end up gathering dust on a shelf, so I may as well have the vinyl gathering dust - even if it's just to look at a bigger version of the artwork...

Snorri xxx

I'll deffo buy it for the cover, and then if the contents are crud I can simply use either the 12" or compact disc as a frisbee for my two dogs to FETCH!!!!!!!

0_o wrote:

The cover might be a highly pixelated version of the WFTSC single cover. The beige square is her nice arse, the pink-red is the flower on top of her head. The black is her tit in shadow and her hair. The olive drab is the trees, the blue the water, the yellow the sun up above.

Compare...

Oh, Fuck me you're not wrong! Check this:

http://www.creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2011/july/clash-magazines-new-order-cover

A couple of the blocks are different (the pink one most obviously), but I think that is where they have taken their, er "inspiration" from. I guess it is kinda lazy, but I still like it. Perhaps because the first NO records I bought had colour blocks on them (Blue Monday, PCL)...

Some people are so creative - I am amazed at that and how he came up with the idea.

Debaser wrote:

0_o wrote:

The cover might be a highly pixelated version of the WFTSC single cover. The beige square is her nice arse, the pink-red is the flower on top of her head. The black is her tit in shadow and her hair. The olive drab is the trees, the blue the water, the yellow the sun up above.

Compare...

Oh, Fuck me you're not wrong! Check this:

http://www.creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2011/july/clash-magazines-new-order-cover

A couple of the blocks are different (the pink one most obviously), but I think that is where they have taken their, er "inspiration" from. I guess it is kinda lazy, but I still like it. Perhaps because the first NO records I bought had colour blocks on them (Blue Monday, PCL)...

http://www.hmv.co.jp/news/article/1111140007/ 【DISC1:LP】 -SIDE A-

1. Stay With You
2. Sugarcane
3. Recoil
4. Californian Grass (Doomy) -SIDE B-
5. Hellbent
6. Shake It Up
7. I've Got A Feeling
8. I Told You So

【DISC2:CD】

1. Stay With You
2. Sugarcane
3. Recoil
4. Californian Grass (Doomy)
5. Hellbent
6. Shake It Up
7. I've Got A Feeling
8. I Told You So

www.hmv.co.jp/news/article/1111140007/ 【DISC1:LP】 -SIDE A- 1. Stay With You 2. Sugarcane 3. Recoil 4. Californian Grass (Doomy) -SIDE B- 1. Hellbent 2. Shake It Up 3. I've Got A Feeling 4. I Told You So 【DISC2:CD】 1. Stay With You 2. Sugarcane 3. Recoil 4. Californian Grass (Doomy) 5. Hellbent 6. Shake It Up 7. I've Got A Feeling 8. I Told You So

At least I can listen to the CD.

Did Hooky sneak a Monaco cover version on?

What's so doomy about californian grass?

Tokoloshe Man wrote: http://www.hmv.co.jp/news/article/1111140007/ 【DISC1:LP】 -SIDE A-

1. Stay With You
2. Sugarcane
3. Recoil
4. Californian Grass (Doomy) -SIDE B-
5. Hellbent
6. Shake It Up
7. I've Got A Feeling
8. I Told You So

【DISC2:CD】

1. Stay With You
2. Sugarcane
3. Recoil
4. Californian Grass (Doomy)
5. Hellbent
6. Shake It Up
7. I've Got A Feeling
8. I Told You So

I will be very upset if they release I told you so again, it is a good song but they don't need to relese it again to fill a cd up, we should also be hearing the new single pretty soon on the radio SUGARCANE should be the first single that they are going to release as a single first.

Anybody any idea when this gets a UK release?

The Shadow wrote: Anybody any idea when this gets a UK release?

I don't know the date, but I do know that the version listed on the Japanese amazon site is actually an import from the UK.

maybe it is a acoustic vresion of "i told you so"? or a different mix?

These song titles sound more like The Cars or Fleetwood Mac than New Order.

The new classic rock?

El Jarvo wrote:

linus sulanki wrote: we should also be hearing the new single pretty soon on the radio SUGARCANE should be the first single that they are going to release as a single first.

Where did you hear that?

Dunno why, but I assumed these would all be sneaked out under the radar and there wouldn't be a single to promote the album.

I am just guessing because SugarcanE was supposed to be the first single for WFTSC when it was first announced 5 years ago, again I could be wrong.

"Californian Grass"? I didn't think they could come up with a worse song title than "Dracula's Castle," but I was wrong.

Made up this gets a vinyl release so the release with a CD for a car suits me just fine.

Not sure why not listed on any UK record stores? Only the one site selling and price is in Euros?

this release should be called

"Getting Ready,Still Waiting".

NO Regret wrote: this release should be called

"Getting Ready,Still Waiting".

Or 'The shite that wasn't good enough for the last album'

I do love the translation - which literally reads like this:

Limited Edition recorded an unreleased!This year 2011, the reunion for Benefitto_Raivu New Order . Studio album they released in 2005 "Waiting For The Sirens Call" just a collection of unreleased tracks that had not yet been recorded during the production of recordings, appeared in a Limited Edition LP + CD! 12-inch analog, containing a CD work "Sirens Lost" is "Herubento" including all eight other songs. Analog and CD is the same content. Is a New Order was to suspend the work a long time, has also an old friend, "True Faith", "Regret", "Touched by the Hand of God" in battling the current filmmakers produced a promotional-video, etc. to help Michael H Shamberg's, announced that reunited to perform live for charity-relief. And since they live in November 2006, Belgium on 17 October, held in Paris on May 18, and performances are planned in London on May 10 and 12.

Housey wrote: "Californian Grass"? I didn't think they could come up with a worse song title than "Dracula's Castle," but I was wrong.

A nod to the Beatles "Get Back"? Possibly. Lost Sirens might just be their Let it Be...

It's a more intriguing title then "Stay with you" or "Shake it up" :\ohwell: IMO.

patrik forssell wrote: maybe it is a acoustic vresion of "i told you so"? or a different mix?

Surely this must be the case.

Otherwise, why on earth?

Even to fill up the other side of the vinyl, it would make more sense to have a new remix of an existing track, or even an existing remix that has not had much exposure, than the exact same version of a song on Sirens I.

Tony Casanova wrote:

Housey wrote: "Californian Grass"? I didn't think they could come up with a worse song title than "Dracula's Castle," but I was wrong.

A nod to the Beatles "Get Back"? Possibly. Lost Sirens might just be their Let it Be...

It's a more intriguing title then "Stay with you" or "Shake it up" :\ohwell: IMO.

wel it was recorded at the same time as wftsc, not before it, so it doesnt work on that level

Californian Grass

Hey! She doesn't know who she is Getting off on E's and Wiz Just sit there on your ass Smokin' Californian Grass

One day its all gonna change for you Just wait another day you'll see its true You had it all, you had it all Thrown it away its time to fall Time to fall

Hey! She's turning it around Getting back on solid ground Mixing with a better class Layin' on Californian Grass

One day its all gonna change for you Just wait another day you'll see its true You had it all, you had it all Thrown it away its time to fall Time to fall

Well, I like "I Told You So" and hope this is a version I haven't heard. An instrumental mix would be a good way to end the EP.

Like the cover as well, which is a nice surprise.

I don't need vinyl though, but I can see why they're releasing it this way.

I'm sure I remember Barney saying in an interview that I Told You So started out as an acoustic guitar based song

Anyone still has the link to the video of Hooky playing Sister+Brother at FAC51?

Excellent news, I will have a vinyl edition purr-lease.

Merry Christmas, New Order is BACK !!!

Major T wrote: I'm sure I remember Barney saying in an interview that I Told You So started out as an acoustic guitar based song

Bollocks - they started to play it in C&W style a la John Denver then UB fucking 40 came onto the radio, followed by Ace of Base, and........ EUREKA!!!!!

everyoneverywhere wrote: Excellent news, I will have a vinyl edition purr-lease.

Merry Christmas, New Order is BACK !!!

Don't count your chickens and get too excited, knowing New Order, a postponement of release date is never that far away.

I'm surprised that everybody seems to have forgotten this!

:)

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Don't count your chickens and get too excited, knowing New Order, a postponement of release date is never that far away.

I'm surprised that everybody seems to have forgotten this!

:)

It's not been listed on any UK sites yet, not even Amazon UK...

patrik forssell wrote: maybe it is a acoustic vresion of "i told you so"? or a different mix?

According to a french website, the new version of "I told you so" is either remixed or a whole new version by Stuart Price.

http://www.darkglobe.fr/?p=6083

linus sulanki wrote:

According to a french website, the new version of "I told you so" is either remixed or a whole new version by Stuart Price.

http://www.darkglobe.fr/?p=6083

Well... I did write the article and the informations and speculations actually come from HERE... :p

francois-marc loze wrote:

linus sulanki wrote:

According to a french website, the new version of "I told you so" is either remixed or a whole new version by Stuart Price.

http://www.darkglobe.fr/?p=6083

Well... I did write the article and the informations and speculations actually come from HERE... :p

Oh ok, lets hope that we are correct

Did I start this rumour?

El Jarvo wrote:

Nick King wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Don't count your chickens and get too excited, knowing New Order, a postponement of release date is never that far away.

I'm surprised that everybody seems to have forgotten this!

:)

It's not been listed on any UK sites yet, not even Amazon UK...

Wonder if someone's jumped the gun here? :\ohwell:

It could, of course, actually be December/Christmas 2012 !!!!

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2011/11/16/new-order-lost-sirens-tracklist-outtakes/ Slicing Up Eyeballs has picked up the story. Hadn't noticed any mention of this though:

Hook discussed the Sirens’ Call outtakes with Slicing Up Eyeballs, saying he hoped they’d be packaged together with full-length versions of the three short New Order instrumentals — “Exit,” “Hypnosis” and “Get Out” — that appear in Anton Corbijn’s 2007 Ian Curtis biopic “Control.” That isn’t happening, but Hook apparently did succeed in convincing his bandmates to release the outtakes as a standalone set and not as part of a Sirens’ Call reissue.

Again this is only my opinion, after the Lost sirens is released, it won't be long before we get another NO album before next summer minus Hook, all the stuff they worked on the new Bad Lieutenant and the other 2 should be converted or reworked to be like New Order music, again it is only an opinion.

linus sulanki wrote: Again this is only my opinion, after the Lost sirens is released, it won't be long before we get another NO album before next summer minus Hook, all the stuff they worked on the new Bad Lieutenant and the other 2 should be converted or reworked to be like New Order music, again it is only an opinion.

To be totally honest (ha ha ha geddit???), after the WFTSC outtakes are issued and the lid closed on the Hook-era New Order, I don't think I will getting too enthusiastic about any of their future releases.....they just don't excite and interest me in the way they used to.

These days, I think of New Order as two completely separate entities:

1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

Post-1993 - when they have largely stagnated and become lukewarm into middle age ....

You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

They too should have split up ages ago, but have plodded on and on and become less and less interesting to the point of tedium.

I am not going to count Echo & The Bunnymen in this cos they are a completely different proposition - in that they were never the sort of band to have a number 1 album in the UK (as NO/DM/Cure have done at some point at the peak of their success).

http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/newsticker/es-gab-gute-schweinshaxen-in-der-ddr,10917074,10925486.html

According to this German article from this July, (and I know there was a thread about it here on Digital Republic), he mentions about the next BL album. What do you reckon they will do with those ? Just throw the songs in the rubbish bin? They already had unreleased songs from the WFTSC era; do you think they will have more unreleased songs again this time, from the 'next' BL album?

Maybe the 2nd BL album will morph into two seperate projects namely a future NO album and the Jake Evans solo album which is sampled on his facebook page and which may feature contributions from his BL mates?

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

Id include U2 in that, actually. Started off Punky New Wave (nearly had Hannett as a producer but he was too busy with JD), went insipid MOR/AOR, then became prety good Pre-Industrial innovators only to, incredibly, become bland MOR/AOR snore-fests a second time.

And in the middle of all of that multi-millionaire Bonio wants me to cough up and feed the poor. Fuck off.

Genetic wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

Id include U2 in that, actually. Started off Punky New Wave (nearly had Hannett as a producer but he was too busy with JD), went insipid MOR/AOR, then became prety good Pre-Industrial innovators only to, incredibly, become bland MOR/AOR snore-fests a second time.

And in the middle of all of that multi-millionaire Bonio wants me to cough up and feed the poor. Fuck off.

On the contrary - I most certainly WOULD NOT under any circumstances or contexts include UPoo with that trio of bands. Simply because they were never innovative in the first place and actually only started experimenting and changing their sound later on - which shows THEM up for the opportunistic bandwagon-jumpers they were, and still are.

Pffft!

The very thought that people can speak of UPoo in the same breath as New Order makes me shudder......

:p

Frank Arkwrighthttp://https://twitter.com/#!/frankarkwright1 wrote on his Twitter account:

http://https://twitter.com/#!/frankarkwright1/status/136784184852217856

Cutting a new piece of vinyl for New Order , heavyweight vinyl !

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: On the contrary - I most certainly WOULD NOT under any circumstances or contexts include UPoo with that trio of bands. Simply because they were never innovative in the first place and actually only started experimenting and changing their sound later on - which shows THEM up for the opportunistic bandwagon-jumpers they were, and still are. Pffft! The very thought that people can speak of UPoo in the same breath as New Order makes me shudder......

I seem to remember reading New Order had been off in the US dancing to some fancy tunes and wanting New Order fans to dance to their songs.

As for The Cure as innovators I see your 'Pffft!' and raise you a 'Pshaw!'

• how come there is no mention of Lost Sirens on their newordernow.net page

• with the album about 2 to 3 weeks away how come they have not released any single of it to promote the album, can it be that the songs are so bland or bad that it is not even worth it.

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

The likes of Blue Monday, KW1, Confusion, Fine Time, etc, were all following in the footsteps of other artistes who'd (arguably) already done it better.

You may have a bit of a point... I'd say that New Order (although they have been influential) were actually more influenced than influential. They experimented with their sound, but those experiments, like you said, had already been done previously by other groups. New Order 'blurred' boundaries if you like, and probably did create 'alternative dance'/'indie dance' with the dance/rock crossover thing I guess. Kraftwerk and Cabaret Voltaire were vastly more creative bands in the future electronic dance scene in my opinion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

El Jarvo wrote:

linus sulanki wrote:

• how come there is no mention of Lost Sirens on their newordernow.net page

• with the album about 2 to 3 weeks away how come they have not released any single of it to promote the album, can it be that the songs are so bland or bad that it is not even worth it.

Dunno, Bernard.

You tell us.

I wished I knew

leather_girl wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

Kind of ironic that as Hooky is saying he's wants to say New Order is all over, in the ad for the New Order show next month there's a photo of hooky with Bernard and Stephen.

Hans Franz wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

Hook "I want to be able to look at New Order and go: 'Well, it's all finished"

Good luck with that mate

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

Very true

They adopted Hazell Dean's 84-85 Hi- NRG hi jinks into Face Up for example

I do think New Order was innovative, and in several ways. The bass as main guitar was never(and will never be) as succesful and brilliant as it was with New Order, the percussion has always been a mix of electronic music and punk music, and the vocals are more simple and easier to sing, but that's what makes them special. They're great melodies that sound good with any person singing them, it's not like those songs which work only with the original singer. I'm not saying everyone can sing as well as Bernard, but you can put any person to sing Regret or Temptation, and it will still sound beautiful. Rolling in the Deep by Adele, for instance, is a good song, but only when a talented singer is doing it. Not that it makes it a bad song, but NO songs are accessible yet deep, you can listen to them in the car, at home, on your media player walking on the street, as a film soundtrack, in a night club, and so on.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

linus sulanki wrote: Again this is only my opinion, after the Lost sirens is released, it won't be long before we get another NO album before next summer minus Hook, all the stuff they worked on the new Bad Lieutenant and the other 2 should be converted or reworked to be like New Order music, again it is only an opinion.

To be totally honest (ha ha ha geddit???), after the WFTSC outtakes are issued and the lid closed on the Hook-era New Order, I don't think I will getting too enthusiastic about any of their future releases.....they just don't excite and interest me in the way they used to.

These days, I think of New Order as two completely separate entities:

1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

Post-1993 - when they have largely stagnated and become lukewarm into middle age ....

You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

They too should have split up ages ago, but have plodded on and on and become less and less interesting to the point of tedium.

I am not going to count Echo & The Bunnymen in this cos they are a completely different proposition - in that they were never the sort of band to have a number 1 album in the UK (as NO/DM/Cure have done at some point at the peak of their success).

The last Echo & The Bunnymen was great IMO, and they've always sounded really fresh to me, specially the synths. But yeah, I agree, they're completely different.

johnny wrote:

Hans Franz wrote:

leather_girl wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/17/new-order-out-takes-final-album

Hook "I want to be able to look at New Order and go: 'Well, it's all finished"

Good luck with that mate

Well, he could always go and join the Killers if his dream is to still [cock] rock out.

:p

johnny wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

Very true

They adopted Hazell Dean's 84-85 Hi- NRG hi jinks into Face Up for example

Don't remind me about Face Up - I have never stopped laughing at that slap bass intro ever since the day I first heard it.

Forgive me my academic portentousness when I made that earlier assertion that they were pushing boundaries, of course, they were better known for pushing each other into deep puddles more like!

linus sulanki wrote:

• how come there is no mention of Lost Sirens on their newordernow.net page

Yeah, not very, er, now is it

NotAMod wrote:

In an apparent clash with former bandmates Bernard Sumner and Stephen Morris, Hook argued for the tracks to be released as a standalone album, not as part of a Waiting for the Sirens' Call reissue. "I keep telling them it will do them no good, because once one person has it, it will be up on the internet and nobody will have to buy it," Hook said.

I don't understand this bit. Surely it makes no difference whether Lost Sirens is released as a stand-alone album or as part of a WFTSC reissue? If people are going to illegally copy and upload it to the Internet then they will, regardless of whether it's a stand-alone album or not.

Regardless, I was in favour of the WFTSC "deluxe edition" as well. 2 CDs plus a DVD with some live footage of the era and a bonus remix section. It would have been a lovely full stop on the Hooky-era NO if handled, packaged and mastered correctly. Basically let a fan curate it with the backing of the label. The mastering on the original WFTSC CD is horrible and this was a good opportunity to redo it in the manner of "Total".

I guess Frank Arkwright's tweet is the confirmation we need that the album is being finalised. My bet is, it will eventually come out but we'll be lucky if it's this year.

I can see where Hookys coming from but not from his point of view. If the Lost Sirens was in a package containing the original Waiting For The Sirens Call then people might not be interested in buying it (as they probably already own WFTSC).

Whereas if Lost Sirens was packaged and sold as a stand alone product then people might be more inclined to purchase it.

Thats my take on it. For the record WFTSC is the only new order studio album which i havent ever bought. That may be wrong but I dont feel any urge to go into HMV and buy it. Whereas I would happily replace any of the other albums when they get knackered.

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Genetic wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: You can say this about any of their contemporaries too who have also lasted 30+ years, and yes, the two bands that come to mind most obviously are Depeche [f***in'] Mode and The Cure.

Id include U2 in that, actually. Started off Punky New Wave (nearly had Hannett as a producer but he was too busy with JD), went insipid MOR/AOR, then became prety good Pre-Industrial innovators only to, incredibly, become bland MOR/AOR snore-fests a second time.

And in the middle of all of that multi-millionaire Bonio wants me to cough up and feed the poor. Fuck off.

err hannett produced 11 o'clock tick tock

from wiki

The non-album single was produced by Martin Hannett, renowned for his work with Joy Division, a band influential to U2. The band first met Hannett while he was producing "Love Will Tear Us Apart" with Joy Division, where U2 were silent studio onlookers during the session. "11 O'Clock Tick Tock" debuted live in August 1979 with alternate lyrics and was then known as "Silver Lining." It evolved into "11 O'Clock Tick Tock" between March and May 1980

El Jarvo wrote:

hibster wrote: technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

Was EGG written on a computer? Or just a sequencer?

Either way, no.

Some of it was... And the sleeve image was computer generated... I think it was probably the first time they seriously started exploring computer-aided music as a means of composition...

Snorri xxx

hibster wrote:

err hannett produced 11 o'clock tick tock

Congratulations, pick yourself an anorak.

He was U2s first choice for the first two albums but he was always too busy with JD/NO.

At least thats what he told them

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

Simply P-E-R-F-E-C-T your response!

Is this it... In one phrase: they fucked off the showbizz handbook in the 80s.

Johnny Giles wrote:

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

G to da Man. Word bro'.

Isn't all this the reason why we fell for them so bad? and equally why many are so disappointed with meet & greet packages? The spiritual opposite, the gravity of economics maybe but still the anti Christ of boundary pushing.

Agreed. But ultimately you need to divorce the mystique and the punk-rock outlook of the band that drew each of us to them and made us love them from the reality of their current situation; a band (or two bands I suppose), all the wrong side of 50, with a back catalogue that's gone from earning them £££££ ten years ago to £ in the current climate of free file sharing.

Both sides of the split need to turn a coin and both sides realise that it's no longer going to come from annual royalty cheques. The pension they were probably banking on (the back catalogue) is suddenly worth fuck all and the only way to generate revenue, as it is with almost all bands nowadays, is to play live. I personally think reforming NO minus Hooky and minus any new material to promote is just as suspect as Hooky's exploits with 'The Light' and very much at odds what the band originally stood for. What differentiates NOv2 from all the other nostalgia acts that get back together to play their hits? It's been done purely as a revenue raising exercise. But I'll still go and see them and I won't criticise them for doing it as the reality of the situation is that all 4 of them need to pay the rent like the rest of us.

GlasVegas wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

G to da Man. Word bro'.

Isn't all this the reason why we fell for them so bad? and equally why many are so disappointed with meet & greet packages? The spiritual opposite, the gravity of economics maybe but still the anti Christ of boundary pushing.

Agreed. But ultimately you need to divorce the mystique and the punk-rock outlook of the band that drew each of us to them and made us love them from the reality of their current situation; a band (or two bands I suppose), all the wrong side of 50, with a back catalogue that's gone from earning them £££££ ten years ago to £ in the current climate of free file sharing.

Both sides of the split need to turn a coin and both sides realise that it's no longer going to come from annual royalty cheques. The pension they were probably banking on (the back catalogue) is suddenly worth fuck all and the only way to generate revenue, as it is with almost all bands nowadays, is to play live. I personally think reforming NO minus Hooky and minus any new material to promote is just as suspect as Hooky's exploits with 'The Light' and very much at odds what the band originally stood for. What differentiates NOv2 from all the other nostalgia acts that get back together to play their hits? It's been done purely as a revenue raising exercise. But I'll still go and see them and I won't criticise them for doing it as the reality of the situation is that all 4 of them need to pay the rent like the rest of us.

I disagree with you equating what the Light are doing with what New Order are doing, but leaving that to the side for a minute, why does the fact they don't have any new material to promote make them less legitimate in your eyes? They didn't have any new material to promote when they reformed in 98 and I don't remember anyone moaning back then, saying 'oh, it's purely a revenue raising exercise'.

BillONdollar wrote:

What's this in response to? The original question or one of the above posts?

Johnny Giles wrote: This would become no more cabaret if Don Estelle joined them on the maracas.

Please somebody, make this happen.

And get Mike AND Brandon Flowers to be special guests.

:p

Skullcrushed wrote:

GlasVegas wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

GlasVegas wrote:

hibster wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

technological ones? wasnt egg the first song written on a computer or summat like that?

they certainly pushed boundaires with their totp appeareances!

Depends on what you mean by 'pushing boundaries'. In terms of musical innovation? Undoubtedly. Bass as lead, blending of electronic and acoustic instruments, experimental song structures (Perfect Kiss) and in countless other ways. In how they engaged with the music industry? Even more so. Releasing stand-alone singles, leaving hit singles off albums, releasing tracks as 12 inch only, not doing interviews, insisting on playing live on TOTP. To me, this is the very definition of 'boundary pushing'.

G to da Man. Word bro'.

Isn't all this the reason why we fell for them so bad? and equally why many are so disappointed with meet & greet packages? The spiritual opposite, the gravity of economics maybe but still the anti Christ of boundary pushing.

Agreed. But ultimately you need to divorce the mystique and the punk-rock outlook of the band that drew each of us to them and made us love them from the reality of their current situation; a band (or two bands I suppose), all the wrong side of 50, with a back catalogue that's gone from earning them £££££ ten years ago to £ in the current climate of free file sharing.

Both sides of the split need to turn a coin and both sides realise that it's no longer going to come from annual royalty cheques. The pension they were probably banking on (the back catalogue) is suddenly worth fuck all and the only way to generate revenue, as it is with almost all bands nowadays, is to play live. I personally think reforming NO minus Hooky and minus any new material to promote is just as suspect as Hooky's exploits with 'The Light' and very much at odds what the band originally stood for. What differentiates NOv2 from all the other nostalgia acts that get back together to play their hits? It's been done purely as a revenue raising exercise. But I'll still go and see them and I won't criticise them for doing it as the reality of the situation is that all 4 of them need to pay the rent like the rest of us.

I disagree with you equating what the Light are doing with what New Order are doing, but leaving that to the side for a minute, why does the fact they don't have any new material to promote make them less legitimate in your eyes? They didn't have any new material to promote when they reformed in 98 and I don't remember anyone moaning back then, saying 'oh, it's purely a revenue raising exercise'.

Who's moaning? I was continuing a conversation with JG. I simply pointed out that New Order have reformed, minus a key member of the band, to play a rack of shows and make some £££ and that some people may think this is slightly at odds with what the band have stood for throughout their career. It's a cash-in. If it was for the love of creating and sharing new music they wouldn't have killed off Bad Lietenant (every cloud....). But for the reasons I've already stated, fair play to them. We've all got bills to pay and I'll gladly contribute my ticket money to the cause and have a great time at the gigs. I'm not moaning about it. I'm completely nonplussed about the whole affair.

NotAMod wrote:

GlasVegas wrote: I simply pointed out that New Order have reformed, minus a key member of the band, to play a rack of shows and make some £££ and that some people may think this is slightly at odds with what the band have stood for throughout their career. It's a cash-in.

That's debatable. The official reason stated from the outset as to why this line-up of New Order hit the road was to provide financial support for Michael Shamberg's US medical care. His name and situation had a firm presence at the Brussels/Paris gigs and there was even a video presentation to reinforce the point.

I get what you're saying though, there will no doubt come a point where future gigs will be primarily about earning a straightforward crust rather than charitable ends. Or maybe they will continue to donate a smaller percentage of future live revenue to Shamberg's cause. Who knows. In any case, it's a pretty tasteful way for the band to return I.e. charity (even though Hooky quickly branded the charity angle as "bollocks" in the NME).

In terms of "what they have stood for" helping out a long-time collaborator by raising funds for him is probably in keeping with what New Order as a band stood for in the past.

Anyway it's early days, if they produce new material (and I hope they do) I think that will be in keeping with the creative and artistic elements of New Order that we all know and love. If they just grind away on the live circuit and make nothing new then that will get very boring very quickly (for me). I guess only time will tell.

There's not much Hooky has said in recent years that I've agreed with but describing the 'charity angle' as 'bollocks' is bang on the money. If they'd reformed to do two charity gigs then dissapeared again then you could argue that but this was never gonna be the case. I fully expect to see New Order do more gigs in 2012 than they've done in years, possibly decades. They'll be at every major festival in the UK and on the continent and will tour the UK, Europe and the US. Mark my words. Again, I re-iterate, THIS IS A GOOD THING. Just don't pretend that it's that much more honourable than what Hooky's doing. Essentially it's two factions of the same band on the road, playing the hits to make money. 'It is what it is' as dumb Americans love to say.

Johnny Giles wrote: New Order have known since the summer that Lost Sirens was set for release, its been more at the record co end that matters have been delayed. So they're doing a few gigs to get back into things knowing that they've got new material around the corner which I'm sure we'll see them promote next year. Fine. And 4 of the 5 musicians are fulfilling the role they've always had since they've been in NO including the singer which is essential for it to sound 'right'. And as Bernard and Phil have spent ages in the studio over the last 4 years they are very much a living musical project. As a concept this authentic.

Contrast that with playing the songs of a band that ceased to exist over 30 years ago so new material isn't possible. Just 1 of the 4 members is involved and as he has to sing he barely does the job he became famous for. And he takes every opportunity to wildly criticise his old band mates in the media This would become no more cabaret if Don Estelle joined them on the maracas.

If these are equally suspect our worlds spin on different axes.

OK. They're certainly not 'equally as suspect', I'll concede that. What Hooky is doing smells bad, nobody can debate that. But so too does changing your name from Bad Lieutenant to New Order which is essentially what the 'living musical project' did when they realised that the public wasn't interested in them and their material was sub-par. It's exactly the same as David Gedge suddenly announcing that Cinerama were now to be called The Wedding Present and that they'd be touring 'George Best in it's entirety' at venues twice the size of anything Cinerama could fill. It's a decision based on finance and as such has the potential to raise questions, among those so-minded (not me!), about 'artistic integrity' and other such pretentious nonsense.

these are great times to be young and in love with new order. peter hook travels the world with a finely tuned sound of excitement and awe for the past. he plays awesomely, his band is tight, and guests love to sing ian curtis songs as much as peter. 2 years ago bernard wrote some different songs from the expected . those melodies and lyrics and voices were awfully incredible for any age . bernard is not done . gillian and stephen have each other and bernard, and as long as no one mentions i told you so , jetstream(i did once and got away with it), and working overtime, all is well in new order land . and the younger at heart can travel to las vegas for cirque de soleil "true faith" 2015,or the satellite show in manchester "blue monday"

Johnny Giles wrote: New Order have known since the summer that Lost Sirens was set for release, its been more at the record co end that matters have been delayed. So they're doing a few gigs to get back into things knowing that they've got new material around the corner which I'm sure we'll see them promote next year. Fine. And 4 of the 5 musicians are fulfilling the role they've always had since they've been in NO including the singer which is essential for it to sound 'right'. And as Bernard and Phil have spent ages in the studio over the last 4 years they are very much a living musical project. As a concept this authentic.

Contrast that with playing the songs of a band that ceased to exist over 30 years ago so new material isn't possible. Just 1 of the 4 members is involved and as he has to sing he barely does the job he became famous for. And he takes every opportunity to wildly criticise his old band mates in the media This would become no more cabaret if Don Estelle joined them on the maracas.

If these are equally suspect our worlds spin on different axes.

Well said.

NotAMod wrote:

I'm not sure "honourable" is the word I'd use but if New Order Ltd decide to write and record new material then yes it would set them aside from The Light in my eyes. Ditto if The Light decided to record something new that wasn't so firmly entrenched in Joy Division but Hooky is on record as saying he doesn't want to make new music because there's no money in it. He's concentrating on what will put bums on seats which is basically Ian Curtis. The fanbase have not been shy to say what they think of that, both detractors and admirers.

If genuinely new material - and I don't mean Lost Sirens - is a possibility then it would certainly make this reunion less of a "cash in" and more credible to me. Not that it's such a big deal to me either, I really enjoyed the EU dates and am looking forward to London.

As I said it's early days

I agree. The 'new' New Order might be hypocritical if they only toured the world playing their older songs for the next few years. But if they did write/release new material then they wouldn't really be hypocritical as much. And...the band (w/ Hooky though) had already quite a few unreleased tracks from the WFTSC era. Would BL (or the people involved with BL) just throw all of the music they were writing into the rubbish bin? Jake Evans is now talking about a solo album now. This is from this June: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/tv_and_showbiz/s/1423329_bernard-sumner-rules-out-a-new-order-reunion

Bernard confirms he and Steve are halfway through recording a new Bad Lieutenant album, which should be ready by Christmas, and that he’s also working with producer Stuart Price on another new music project

Strangely, though, Bernard says he’s not one for “looking back” or “nostalgia”. He says: “I don’t really like poring over the past, I’m a forward-looking person. “That’s why I’m writing new material. “But, of course, I’m very proud of our achievements and the great songs that we’ve written that have taken us all around the world."

So...that's going to the rubbish bin too? Or will something new be released somehow later?

2016: Lost Lieutenants

Andy wrote: 2016: Lost Lieutenants

Johnny Giles wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.

Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?

Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.

I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.

I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...

Snorri xxx

Snorrimon wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.

Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?

Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.

I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.

I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...

Snorri xxx

Sorry to say this but I hold my hands up in guilt and shame and confess that I never even bothered with NCAT by Bad Loo, not even when it was going for £2 at FOPP in Manchester.... but then I never bothered with the second or third Electronic albums either.....

:\ohwell:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Snorrimon wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.

Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?

Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.

I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.

I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...

Snorri xxx

Sorry to say this but I hold my hands up in guilt and shame and confess that I never even bothered with NCAT by Bad Loo, not even when it was going for £2 at FOPP in Manchester.... but then I never bothered with the second or third Electronic albums either.....

:\ohwell:

The Hell with all of these lengthy discussions, I want to know when they are gonna release a single of this so i can hear it and the other songs on Lost Sirens.

linus sulanki wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Snorrimon wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Johnny Giles wrote: NCAT was IMO a great album stacked out with tunes. I played it more than Sirens or Get Ready.

Are you trying to out-muscle Nobby as their no.1 fan?

Nah, he's got 6 inches on me. Fnarr.

I've heard loads say how good the BL album is, one writer on Saboatage recently described it as good as anything NO have done. That was stretching it a bit I thought! But I suspect the general tone of negativity on here makes folk reluctant to say what their ears are telling them.

I was guilty I think of being rather negative about NCAT - listened to bits of it but never actually bought it when it came out, but did get the limited edition box thingy cos it was cheap on Amazon a while ago, and having had a bit more time with it, it isn't as bad as I thought, which bodes well for any potential future output from NONow/NO LTD/whatever else they migth end up calling themselves...

Snorri xxx

Sorry to say this but I hold my hands up in guilt and shame and confess that I never even bothered with NCAT by Bad Loo, not even when it was going for £2 at FOPP in Manchester.... but then I never bothered with the second or third Electronic albums either.....

:\ohwell:

The Hell with all of these lengthy discussions, I want to know when they are gonna release a single of this so i can hear it and the other songs on Lost Sirens.

They are not going to release a fuckin single!

Period.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: They are not going to release a fuckin single!

Period.

Yeah as if they'd release a single from it. Jesus, give me strength

I want them to release the Don Estelle remix, "Whispering Californian Grass".

johnny wrote: Yeah as if they'd release a single from it. Jesus, give me strength

Some people want the moon on a stick.

Incidentally, what you asking Jesus for??

I thought you were an atheist.

Amazon Canada Dec 20 2011 Number of Discs: 2

keepitcoming wrote: these are great times to be young and in love with new order. peter hook travels the world with a finely tuned sound of excitement and awe for the past. he plays awesomely, his band is tight

Erm, except when singing

peter was ok singing dreams never end, then brilliant on many revenge songs, fine with monaco , and i am not sure who sings what on freebass. the light videos seem interesting, admittedly his voice is back at ok . how he sings touched by the hand of god , dracula's castle, jetstream , close range, and answer me why won't you answer me (technique), is another story

can't malign his playing, even if he is tired, mopey, and jamming with journey

M1 wrote:

keepitcoming wrote: these are great times to be young and in love with new order. peter hook travels the world with a finely tuned sound of excitement and awe for the past. he plays awesomely, his band is tight

Erm, except when singing

You mean "singing"

searched US Amazon.com for "Lost Sirens" and this came up... no New Order yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Gunslingers-Collection-Publishing-Everlasting-ebook/dp/B003LST98C/ref=pd_sim_kinc_10?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2

Amazon France 20 décembre 2011 Nombre de disques: 2

Amazon UK 20 Dec 2011 Number of Discs: 2

wheh hey! Finally!

That is very close to Christmas. Wonder if it's so that last minute xmas shoppers and casual NO fans might buy it in a rush whilst being too busy to read any negative reviews. Either that or its because this is so special that it deserves to be released on Christmas Day itself and the 20th was as close as Rhino could get...

It won't be out before Christmas.

Who wants to take bets?

:p

It will be interesting if this is just a Vinyl + CD release, so as to give the physical release some sort of unique value... then maybe the "lost" songs will be available digitally on iTunes. Would be a smart marketing ploy, if they don't think they could get much physical CD sales on the mini-album/XL EP.

Then later they could have an "extended remaster" of the album WFTSC with all of the songs together. Get fans to buy both versions.

Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

The mind boggles as to why they chose to remix such a crap song anyway.

They could have gone with a new remix of one of the other tracks on the album.... but no, they had to choose THE naffest track of them all - with the crappest title (along with Dracula's Castle and Hey Now What You're Doing).

Amazon German 20. Dezember 2011 Anzahl Disks/Tonträger: 2

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

Hélène's friend wrote:

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

It would make sense since Total contains quite a few "edited" tracks that I believe were radio versions.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: The mind boggles as to why they chose to remix such a crap song anyway.

They could have gone with a new remix of one of the other tracks on the album.... but no, they had to choose THE naffest track of them all - with the crappest title (along with Dracula's Castle and Hey Now What You're Doing).

I'm hoping the inclusion of a remixed ITYS will be evidence there is a great 'lost song' hidden underneath that UB40 meets Ace of Base facade... Proof perhaps that it is possible to polish a turd...

Snorri xxx

Hélène's friend wrote:

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

Yes how do you know that Mr King? Some uf us on this site may not be aware of your insider knowledge connections.

My money is still on ITYS being the Stuart Price mix. So they wouldnt have had to do anything with it recently, as this remix has been around almost as long as the Lost Sirens tracks. Doesnt sound like UB40...

Debaser wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote:

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

Yes how do you know that Mr King? Some uf us on this site may not be aware of your insider knowledge connections.

My money is still on ITYS being the Stuart Price mix. So they wouldnt have had to do anything with it recently, as this remix has been around almost as long as the Lost Sirens tracks. Doesnt sound like UB40...

It was mentioned on one of the sites (a German one, if memory serves me correctly) that was selling it - no inside knowledge (I'm afraid!) :)

I'll see if I can find the site again, but it's a bit difficult now that the slicingupeyeballs/guardian stories have gone viral (i.e. everybody else has reposted it in their news stories)... Thus, a Google search two days ago was much easier than today! :p

(Edit: Found it - good ol' Firefox history)!

" Featuring a truly eclectic mix of electronica and guitars in the way only New Order know how, 'The Lost Siren's features eight tracks which were recorded during the sessions for "Waiting For The Sirens Call" and are all previously unreleased. 'Hellbent' features on 'The Lost Sirens' in it's original non-radio edit form (as per TOTAL) and 'I Told You So' is a previously unreleased mix. All mastered at Abbey Road by Frank Arkwright Artwork by Studio Parris Wakefield"

i'd like a copy of this, on both formats. I still love vinyl. I'd rather have that than a download.

Debaser wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote:

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

Yes how do you know that Mr King? Some uf us on this site may not be aware of your insider knowledge connections.

My money is still on ITYS being the Stuart Price mix. So they wouldnt have had to do anything with it recently, as this remix has been around almost as long as the Lost Sirens tracks. Doesnt sound like UB40...

Still not much of a song though. Even the clanging drumbeat does very little to make it vaguely interesting.

The fact that I Told You So has been so radically remixed suggests that NO agree that the version on Sirens was less than satisfactory,the remixed version still sounds pretty horrible to me though,just in a different way.:\ohwell:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Still not much of a song though. Even the clanging drumbeat does very little to make it vaguely interesting.

I actually think it's a great song and I love the remix. Personal taste isnt it . Just like I think 'Crystal' is utter shite ,other folk love it.

:)

Ger Boy wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Still not much of a song though. Even the clanging drumbeat does very little to make it vaguely interesting.

I actually think it's a great song and I love the remix. Personal taste isnt it . Just like I think 'Crystal' is utter shite ,other folk love it.

:)

Crystal is actually way too overrated. It's a average to decent NO song at best, not mindblowing.

Them backing vocals have ruined it for me. I hate cliched Bodyform-screecher backing vocals on songs, period.

:p

Stuart Price Remix reminds a lot Velvet Underground's "Venus in Furs"...

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Them backing vocals have ruined it for me. I hate cliched Bodyform-screecher backing vocals on songs, period.

Snorri xxx

Debaser wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote:

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

Yes how do you know that Mr King? Some uf us on this site may not be aware of your insider knowledge connections.

My money is still on ITYS being the Stuart Price mix. So they wouldnt have had to do anything with it recently, as this remix has been around almost as long as the Lost Sirens tracks. Doesnt sound like UB40...

So much better than the original. Still borderline shite, but so much better.

http://www.indietective.de/product.html?do=addtocart&code=161557

This is the German site that has the info, I think.

Snorrimon wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Them backing vocals have ruined it for me. I hate cliched Bodyform-screecher backing vocals on songs, period.

Snorri xxx

I am so glad that you spotted that sneaky little pun.

You smart alec!

Nick King wrote:

Hélène's friend wrote:

Nick King wrote: Hellbent is the full-length version (i.e. not the Radio Edit that appeared on Total) and I Told You So is, indeed, a remix...

How do you know that?

(Edit: Found it - good ol' Firefox history)!

" Featuring a truly eclectic mix of electronica and guitars in the way only New Order know how, 'The Lost Siren's features eight tracks which were recorded during the sessions for "Waiting For The Sirens Call" and are all previously unreleased. 'Hellbent' features on 'The Lost Sirens' in it's original non-radio edit form (as per TOTAL) and 'I Told You So' is a previously unreleased mix. All mastered at Abbey Road by Frank Arkwright Artwork by Studio Parris Wakefield"

thanks

Amazon UK is now saying it will be released on 12th December, not the 20th. You can pre order the vinyl + cd edition now, £12.95:)

the 12th is a Monday which makes more sense for UK releases

I've placed my order:D

johnny wrote: I've placed my order:D

Likewise... 12th makes more sense, as hopefully the hype from the Troxy gig that weekend will encourage sales...

Snorri xxx

I will hold out until it goes cheap at FOPP.............(like Get Ready and Sirens both did when they went for £3, the latter mere weeks after it was released)

:p :p

johnny wrote: I've placed my order:D

me too!!

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: I will hold out until it goes cheap at FOPP.............(like Get Ready and Sirens both did when they went for £3, the latter mere weeks after it was released)

:p :p

Do they stock vinyl at Fopp? :p

Amazon Japan still leading the way though. They now say it will be released on 6th December. Which is what they said in the first place...

http://http://www.amazon.co.jp/LOST-SIRENS-LP-CD/dp/B0065V2ISA/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1321918258&sr=1-1 erm I may have fcuk'd up the link! I'm sure Tokoloshe Man will fix!

Nick King wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: I will hold out until it goes cheap at FOPP.............(like Get Ready and Sirens both did when they went for £3, the latter mere weeks after it was released)

:p :p

Do they stock vinyl at Fopp? :p

Aye they do! i practically live in FOPP because it's next door to where I work.

MONTY wrote: (& Nick)! Do they stock vinyl at Fopp? :p

Aye they do! i practically live in FOPP because it's next door to where I work.

Good stuff - I miss the ever decreasing record stores... :(

Still not seeing it on Amazon US ):

MONTY wrote:

Nick King wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: I will hold out until it goes cheap at FOPP.............(like Get Ready and Sirens both did when they went for £3, the latter mere weeks after it was released)

:p :p

Do they stock vinyl at Fopp? :p

Aye they do! i practically live in FOPP because it's next door to where I work.

Fopp is without a doubt the best ever [new] record / CD / DVD shop in Manchester.

MONTY wrote:

Nick King wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: I will hold out until it goes cheap at FOPP.............(like Get Ready and Sirens both did when they went for £3, the latter mere weeks after it was released)

:p :p

Do they stock vinyl at Fopp? :p

Aye they do! i practically live in FOPP because it's next door to where I work.

Though their vinyl mostly seems to be 'deluxe' reissues of classic albums at a 'deluxe' price... Though that might just be the Cambridge one... Their selection of books is always good, too...

Snorri xxx

It's now number 2 in Amazon's current Vinyl bestsellers

How will the Vinyl + CD be packaged? The CD in just a card sleeve chucked inside the vinyl sleeve?

johnny wrote: It's now number 2 in Amazon's current Vinyl bestsellers

How will the Vinyl + CD be packaged? The CD in just a card sleeve chucked inside the vinyl sleeve?

I have it on good authority that the vinyl is going to be issued in a mega-rare limited edition of ten housed inside a giant concrete breeze block.

This is of course a nod back to the extravagant ways in which their former record label used to go about things.....remember the infamous sandpaper sleeve for Durutti Column???

:p

johnny wrote: It's now number 2 in Amazon's current Vinyl bestsellers

How will the Vinyl + CD be packaged? The CD in just a card sleeve chucked inside the vinyl sleeve?

The cd better come in glass case, i hate digpacks and cardboard cases, it has to be in a glass case like the other new order cd's so once I get it I can put it neatly with the other NO cd's, it is a ritual for me with new order cd's.

Oh i dunno, i'm not that big a fan of the plastic cases these days. Prefer digi packs and such like

johnny wrote: Oh i dunno, i'm not that big a fan of the plastic cases these days. Prefer digi packs and such like

Me too - I hate jewel cases. The good thing is they protect the artwork/booklet but then can scratch/break easily.

Album artwork has already been reduced to miniscule size, multifold digipaks and cardboard slipcases are what floats my boat too. If people keep their digipak card sleeves in mint condition then I don't see what the problem is with them....

Remember - albums were housed in 12 inch CARD sleeves, NOT clear perspex ones!

On a kind of related packaging note i realised recently that it's slightly peeving when you download an album off iTunes or wherever ( i don't download so much off the illegal P2P's like Soulseek these days because of the often inferior sound quality and feel a bit more duty bound to support artists) you only get the front cover artwork, nowt more. If you're paying you should also get all the inner booklet and reverse artwork that you'd get if you bought the actual CD

I like my New Order cd's in a jewel case so i can pile it up nicely together with the other NO cd's, I know it sounds kind of weird.

johnny wrote: On a kind of related packaging note i realised recently that it's slightly peeving when you download an album off iTunes or wherever ( i don't download so much off the illegal P2P's like Soulseek these days because of the often inferior sound quality and feel a bit more duty bound to support artists) you only get the front cover artwork, nowt more. If you're paying you should also get all the inner booklet and reverse artwork that you'd get if you bought the actual CD

I know exactly what you mean, and share your beef.

But not your Yorkie Pud.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

johnny wrote: On a kind of related packaging note i realised recently that it's slightly peeving when you download an album off iTunes or wherever ( i don't download so much off the illegal P2P's like Soulseek these days because of the often inferior sound quality and feel a bit more duty bound to support artists) you only get the front cover artwork, nowt more. If you're paying you should also get all the inner booklet and reverse artwork that you'd get if you bought the actual CD

I know exactly what you mean, and share your beef.

But not your Yorkie Pud.

Agreed with so many albums £5 for legal download it's just mean to be illegal downloading. Books could be hit next

So, does it come on CD too? That listing on Amazon only says Vinyl

Major T wrote: So, does it come on CD too? That listing on Amazon only says Vinyl

(A Black 12" Vinyl 8 tracks ,CD of all tracks also included within packaging)

http://www.indietective.de/product.html?do=addtocart&code=161557

THE LOST SIRENS (LP+CD) [Import, From UK]

(Description from the Japanese Amazon)

So I think there will be a CD too. It would be odd and unusual if customers in other countries would have the LP+CD set, yet customers in the UK would only be offered vinyl.

I havent bought a record in 20 years and im not prepared to start now. In fact I rarely buy CDs anymore. Although perhaps not as good quality soundwise, downloads dont take up much room, dont break and dont get lost.

well not so far

so i hope theres a download version in the pipeline. otherwise a CD only release would be welcome.

£15.99? Bit Pricey. The blurb looks like a standard one that's been sent out. It's the same one that was on the english language version of that german website.

http://www.roughtrade.com/site/shop_detail.lasso?search_type=sku&sku=346224

NO Regret wrote: I havent bought a record in 20 years and im not prepared to start now. In fact I rarely buy CDs anymore. Although perhaps not as good quality soundwise, downloads dont take up much room, dont break and dont get lost.

well not so far

Until your hard drive crashes...!

(which is something I'm paranoid about myself)

amazon uk just emailed me that my order is vinyl + cd, 8 songs each, forgot to ask for details about packaging. brian eno on vinyl is great, new order should be spectacular at the local stereo store

Yeah, they've updated it now so it says CD too

1. Ill Stay with You (4.22)
2. Sugarcane (4.47)
3. Recoil (5.08)
4. Californian Grass (4.38)
5. Hellbent (4.28)
6. Shake it Up (5.21)
7. Ive Got a Feeling (4.29)
8. I Told You So (5.05)

NO Regret wrote: I havent bought a record in 20 years and im not prepared to start now.quote] Me neither. "Deals" like this are right up there with dance-floor fretboards in my book. And people will buy a record they'll never play so I guess Im wrong.

Can I just buy a CD of it please? And if its more than £6.99 you're taking the piss; these are, afterall, tracks that were deemed not good enough the first time around.

From the Rough Trade Site..

"black 12" vinyl, 8 tracks with a cd of all tracks also included within packaging. all mastered at abbey road by frank arkwright. artwork by studio parris wakefield. following the release of 'total: from joy division to new order' in early 2011 and the surprise success of 'lost siren' track 'hellbent', new order are proud to announce the release of 'the lost sirens', an eight track mini album featuring bernard sumner, peter hook, stephen morris and philip cunningham. featuring a truly eclectic mix of electronica and guitars in the way only new order know how, 'the lost siren's features eight tracks which were recorded during the sessions for 'waiting for the sirens call' and are all previously unreleased. 'hellbent' features on 'the lost sirens' in it's original non-radio edit form (as per total) and 'i told you so' is a previously unreleased mix."

Nick King wrote:

NO Regret wrote: I havent bought a record in 20 years and im not prepared to start now. In fact I rarely buy CDs anymore. Although perhaps not as good quality soundwise, downloads dont take up much room, dont break and dont get lost.

well not so far

Until your hard drive crashes...!

(which is something I'm paranoid about myself)

if you buy from itunes (which i tend to now) and you lose the tracks you can get them again without further financial burden.

cranelane wrote: and the surprise success of 'lost siren' track 'hellbent'

???

Genetic wrote: And if its more than £6.99 you're taking the piss; these are, afterall, tracks that were deemed not good enough the first time around.

Not that I want to pay over the odds for this record...but that isn't exactly right.

The original intention was to record a few more songs and release another album - which would have had the same status as WFTSC, as a full NO release. I guess that's also why they never "wasted" any original songs on B-sides (unlike during the Get Ready period).

As discussed elsewhere, Morris' favourite track from the sessions didn't make the cut for WFTSC. The selections weren't based on quality but on trying to make a balanced album. "Working Overtime" was included because Sumner thought the album without was too flowery and he wanted one song that was more raw in there. "Jetstream" was going in vain for a pop hit. We can probably assume that some members of the band prefer, say, "Sisters and Brothers" to "Jetstream". And some tracks got the chop because of being "too New Order".

I think they probably tried to cover too many bases with WFTSC. I'm still hoping to compile a really strong 10- or 12- track album out of the total 18 tracks.

Tony Casanova wrote:

Genetic wrote: And if its more than £6.99 you're taking the piss; these are, afterall, tracks that were deemed not good enough the first time around.

Not that I want to pay over the odds for this record...but that isn't exactly right.

The original intention was to record a few more songs and release another album - which would have had the same status as WFTSC, as a full NO release. I guess that's also why they never "wasted" any original songs on B-sides (unlike during the Get Ready period).

As discussed elsewhere, Morris' favourite track from the sessions didn't make the cut for WFTSC. The selections weren't based on quality but on trying to make a balanced album. "Working Overtime" was included because Sumner thought the album without was too flowery and he wanted one song that was more raw in there. "Jetstream" was going in vain for a pop hit. We can probably assume that some members of the band prefer, say, "Sisters and Brothers" to "Jetstream". And some tracks got the chop because of being "too New Order".

I think they probably tried to cover too many bases with WFTSC. I'm still hoping to compile a really strong 10- or 12- track album out of the total 18 tracks.

I agree with all of that apart from the bit about the Get Ready period... as I reckon Sabotage, Player in the League and Behind Closed Doors were a vast improvement on a lot of the stuff on Get Ready. Why they left Here to Stay off to God only knows.

Tony Casanova wrote:

Genetic wrote: And if its more than £6.99 you're taking the piss; these are, afterall, tracks that were deemed not good enough the first time around.

Not that I want to pay over the odds for this record...but that isn't exactly right.

Reading back you're spot on. I still think it still should be Nice Price!'d though.

Shug wrote: £12.95 for the album and CD and free delivery?

What do you reckon is this the best price we'll see pre-Xmas?

Wait until FOPP sell it for about a fiver.

Patience, people......... patience........

:p

I think one thing is clear from my link to the Rough Trade website further up (and Craneane's subsequent quotation from that 12 hours later - thanks for keeping up Cranelane!), the cd aint gonna be in a jewel case. It's the same presentation as Steven & Gillian's Swing (albeit the same music on both discs this time). And another thing that's clear is that we wont have patience to wait for a fiver at Fopp, we want it now if not sooner! No sign of it on HMV.co.uk but I'm going to guess they might do it for £9.99.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Wait until FOPP sell it for about a fiver.

Patience, people......... patience........

:p

You got it: Patience

DShamen wrote:

Tony Casanova wrote:

Genetic wrote: And if its more than £6.99 you're taking the piss; these are, afterall, tracks that were deemed not good enough the first time around.

Not that I want to pay over the odds for this record...but that isn't exactly right.

The original intention was to record a few more songs and release another album - which would have had the same status as WFTSC, as a full NO release. I guess that's also why they never "wasted" any original songs on B-sides (unlike during the Get Ready period).

As discussed elsewhere, Morris' favourite track from the sessions didn't make the cut for WFTSC. The selections weren't based on quality but on trying to make a balanced album. "Working Overtime" was included because Sumner thought the album without was too flowery and he wanted one song that was more raw in there. "Jetstream" was going in vain for a pop hit. We can probably assume that some members of the band prefer, say, "Sisters and Brothers" to "Jetstream". And some tracks got the chop because of being "too New Order".

I think they probably tried to cover too many bases with WFTSC. I'm still hoping to compile a really strong 10- or 12- track album out of the total 18 tracks.

I agree with all of that apart from the bit about the Get Ready period... as I reckon Sabotage, Player in the League and Behind Closed Doors were a vast improvement on a lot of the stuff on Get Ready. Why they left Here to Stay off to God only knows.

I think thats what Tony was meaning

If you pre-order from Amazon, they tend to either match or better any other pre-orders once they ship it to you...

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: It won't be out before Christmas.

Who wants to take bets?

:p

Well, you've won yer bet!

(see other thread)

Andy wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Wait until FOPP sell it for about a fiver.

Patience, people......... patience........

:p

You got it: Patience

He looks like Stouffer the Cat crossed with Kermit the Frog!

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

1. Ill Stay with You (4.22)
2. Sugarcane (4.47)
3. Recoil (5.08)
4. Californian Grass (4.38)
5. Hellbent (4.28)
6. Shake it Up (5.21)
7. Ive Got a Feeling (4.29)
8. I Told You So (5.05)

8 tracks long 35 - 40 mins in length...

Just like the old days

According to those track times, It's the same edit of Hellbent as on Total.

Not that it matters now it's been shelved

? wrote:

Not that it matters now it's been shelved

has it?

Well its still listed on Amazon UK as being available for pre-order,I just did a search under "New Order Lost Sirens" .... The 2nd item that came up was the 1102/2011 cd..:\ohwell:

cranelane wrote: Well its still listed on Amazon UK as being available for pre-order,I just did a search under "New Order Lost Sirens" .... The 2nd item that came up was the 1102/2011 cd..:\ohwell:

I guess it takes a while from toys being throw out of pram to be fed via management/lawyers to retailers... Wonder how much money presales have made so far? Fcuking ridiculous...

Snorri xxx

? wrote: According to those track times, It's the same edit of Hellbent as on Total.

Not that it matters now it's been shelved

Thats a shit and a double shit! I still think it could have been blown out a little more, as others have suggested. Were any remixes of 'Turn' ever done? 8 tracks was really an ep, and considering one track is a remix, the other recently released, it's not overly great value!

Still, I don't mind the WFSC album, and had looked forward to hearing the other tracks.

condemnation wrote:

? wrote: According to those track times, It's the same edit of Hellbent as on Total.

Not that it matters now it's been shelved

Thats a shit and a double shit! I still think it could have been blown out a little more, as others have suggested. Were any remixes of 'Turn' ever done? 8 tracks was really an ep, and considering one track is a remix, the other recently released, it's not overly great value!

Still, I don't mind the WFSC album, and had looked forward to hearing the other tracks.

It's not going to be released, as Hooky has kyboshed it apparently.

condemnation wrote: Were any remixes of 'Turn' ever done?

Actually they were, in the light of its possible release as the final single of WFTSC. So far they remain unreleased.

i hope stephen, gillian, and bernard each are awarded cbe. commanders gilbert, morris and sumner . i hope hooky gets a cookie

I thought Hooky wanted these released, and as a separate release... so he got his way?

Maybe Bernard did something to piss him off again? Or maybe "revenge" for somebody putting Hooky's Joy Division covers EP on hold which had the unreleased song that Hooky may or may not have cleared with others. Maybe it is all some sort of bitter childish chess game between Bernard and Hooky?

Was what made New Order so "special" was that all four members seem to be possibly mentally handicapped in some fashion?

bernard got ian's melodica, peter retaliated ,grew a mullet, bernard hypnotized ian, peter hypnotized himself, still in trance

keepitcoming wrote: i hope stephen, gillian, and bernard each are awarded cbe. commanders gilbert, morris and sumner . i hope hooky gets a cookie

I completely second it. The UK should acknowledge their merits. They did influence modern pop/rock music. I cannot say the same about Sir Elton John.

On the thread 'Gillian on the press', in the Google translated Portuguese language interview, there's this.

You are in the process of releasing Lost Sirens, who are Bs sides of Waiting for the Siren's Call to. This is the work of you or Peter Hook? GillianGilbert- Oh, yes,the songs lost. I was not involved in this album, but they always thought of releasing the songs left over, I was just waiting for permission from Peter.

Earth - And it was hard to get this permission? Gillian Gilbert- It's been very difficult right now because it has a lot going on behind the scenes on the copyright, but the idea is to release it.

Earth - And when you want to do it? Gillian Gilbert- I think it is to be released at Christmas,but I do not know if it will still delayed.

She seems to mention copyright issues. Hmmm. I wonder if that has anything to do with the situation.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

condemnation wrote: Were any remixes of 'Turn' ever done?

Actually they were, in the light of its possible release as the final single of WFTSC. So far they remain unreleased.

Well, I'm sure it will be revealed soon :\ohwell:

I did buy all of the 12"x 12" but it was hard. Some good remixes in there, WFTSC Planet Funk remix, True Faith King Roc remix and dub mix, Krafty Riton mix and Glimmers dub, Regret Tocadisco.. But some totally pointless stuff like Thieves 12", Shame Of The Nation

Obviously would have felt better about purchasing if i didn't already have most of the mixes including Someone Like You James Holden heavy dub, Funk D'Void etc)

Were they all worth buying? hmmm..probably, but only just

leather_girl wrote: She seems to mention copyright issues. Hmmm. I wonder if that has anything to do with the situation.

I think you're right.

Housey wrote:

leather_girl wrote: She seems to mention copyright issues. Hmmm. I wonder if that has anything to do with the situation.

I think you're right.

She answered 3 questions about this on that interview

Q - New Order is about to release 'Lost Sirens', B-sides from WFTSC. Is it your work or Peter Hook's?Gillian Gilbert - Oh, the lost songs. I wasn't involved in that album, but they always thought about releasing the songs that didn't make it in the album. They were just waiting for PH's permissionQ - Was it difficult to get this permission ? Gillian Gilbert - It is being difficult, there is a lot happening behind the scenes regarding copyrights. The idea is to release it.Q - When do you plan to do it? Gillian Gilbert - I think it's supposed to be released on Christmas, but I don't know if it will be delayed.

It kind of suggests they don't have the legal part sorted to release it yet, but that would be to weird. I don't think it would be on Amazon if that was the case.

Man, I just want to listen the feckin' songs. They are probably not even good. :(

NotAMod wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

condemnation wrote: Were any remixes of 'Turn' ever done?

Actually they were, in the light of its possible release as the final single of WFTSC. So far they remain unreleased.

Remixes by whom?

The only remix commissioned for the 'Turn' single I'm aware of was the Tribute mix of WFTSC by Wally Gagel which incorporated a number of classic NO songs into a megamix. Hooky stated in an NME interview at the time that they wanted to put out said Tribute mix as the single's b side (or whatever passed for a b side in 2006). There is also a high chance the Velvet Underground-esque Stuart Price remix of 'I Told You So' was destined for the 'Turn' single but ended up on the 12x12" campaign instead. Of course, the radio edit of 'Turn' ended up on the 'Singles' compilation.

Aside from that and as far as I'm aware no promos for 'Turn' surfaced... and no remixes of the song itself are known to exist. Unless someone else (with record company knowledge) knows differently? Would be a difficult track to remix as it's so guitar orientated.

By 2006 the 12x12" campaign seemed to have replaced the 'Turn' single; a fairly pointless vinyl orientated project which involved fans having to shell out for 12 bits of vinyl. A terrible idea at the time I thought. Still do tbh.

Actually this info was provided a while ago by someone here on NOOL, who was involved in the remix work.

Don't hold yer breath, Ally

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Actually this info was provided a while ago by someone here on NOOL, who was involved in the remix work.

Well, I've just performed a search through the forums and I can't find anything mentioned... And neither can I remember it being mentioned?

Link?

johnny wrote: I did buy all of the 12"x 12" but it was hard. Some good remixes in there, WFTSC Planet Funk remix, True Faith King Roc remix and dub mix, Krafty Riton mix and Glimmers dub, Regret Tocadisco.. But some totally pointless stuff like Thieves 12", Shame Of The Nation

Obviously would have felt better about purchasing if i didn't already have most of the mixes including Someone Like You James Holden heavy dub, Funk D'Void etc)

Were they all worth buying? hmmm..probably, but only just

Surprise surprise I did not bother buying any of them. Remixes of NO mostly suck ass nowadays, and the crap sleeve design for Singles was repeated for all of those 12 inch mixes anyways. No thanks!

Nick King wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Actually this info was provided a while ago by someone here on NOOL, who was involved in the remix work.

Well, I've just performed a search through the forums and I can't find anything mentioned... And neither can I remember it being mentioned?

Link?

PeteZarustica:

They could also add the Turn remixes that were commissioned...

http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=49731&PageIndex=4

Now I don't know anything else besides this line, so it's just my broad assumption

Igor wrote:

Housey wrote:

leather_girl wrote: She seems to mention copyright issues. Hmmm. I wonder if that has anything to do with the situation.

I think you're right.

She answered 3 questions about this on that interview

Q - New Order is about to release 'Lost Sirens', B-sides from WFTSC. Is it your work or Peter Hook's?Gillian Gilbert - Oh, the lost songs. I wasn't involved in that album, but they always thought about releasing the songs that didn't make it in the album. They were just waiting for PH's permissionQ - Was it difficult to get this permission ? Gillian Gilbert - It is being difficult, there is a lot happening behind the scenes regarding copyrights. The idea is to release it.Q - When do you plan to do it? Gillian Gilbert - I think it's supposed to be released on Christmas, but I don't know if it will be delayed.

It kind of suggests they don't have the legal part sorted to release it yet, but that would be to weird. I don't think it would be on Amazon if that was the case.

Man, I just want to listen the feckin' songs. They are probably not even good. :(

Thank you for a better translation.

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

The likes of Blue Monday, KW1, Confusion, Fine Time, etc, were all following in the footsteps of other artistes who'd (arguably) already done it better.

Ten plus years later and over 14K posts, they're obviously doing something right for you.

Cameron wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

The likes of Blue Monday, KW1, Confusion, Fine Time, etc, were all following in the footsteps of other artistes who'd (arguably) already done it better.

Ten plus years later and over 14K posts, they're obviously doing something right for you.

LOL classic

OK...so on Amazon JP, it now says this on the listing for Lost Sirens. (This is the English language version of the notice)

Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available. Click here for details of availability.

(Mind you it's listed as an import from the UK).

According to Gillian, Hooky will do everything to avoid this release

Yes it has been delayed till next year

linus sulanki wrote: Yes it has been delayed till next year, I got a e-mail from a reliable source and he said it will be next year, it has to do with HOOKY.

Now I'm really pissed.

So please can someone put up the tracks on the good old internet now? Just to piss the Hookster off. There must have been some people involved in this release who are in possession of them.

If they were worth anything, I'd sell my Hook-collection of records right now. Unfortunately, no one wants Revenge, Monaco or Freebass-releases. Guess why Hooky.

Hopefully the other three make a hell of a new record with the best faux-Hooky basslines imagineable.

joe davola wrote: Now I'm really pissed.

So please can someone put up the tracks on the good old internet now? Just to piss the Hookster off. There must have been some people involved in this release who are in possession of them.

If they were worth anything, I'd sell my Hook-collection of records right now. Unfortunately, no one wants Revenge, Monaco or Freebass-releases. Guess why Hooky.

Hopefully the other three make a hell of a new record with the best faux-Hooky basslines imagineable.

Well I'll wait patiently.

Well, this is all grist to the mill for Hooky's final volume of memoirs.

"In the end, I had the last laugh"

:\ohwell:

So we will be waiting till next year for the sirens call

Big Mouth Julio wrote: So we will be waiting till next year for the sirens call

Still waiting for the lost sirens call....

On Your Marks, Get Ready, Wait!

El Jarvo wrote:

Cameron wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: 1981-1990 - when they were at least interesting and pushing boundaries ....

What boundaries did New Order ever push, seriously?

Urban myth which has been repeated here over and over again, but never actually happened.

They just adopted current trends into their own style, can't see that they genuinely pushed any boundaries.

The likes of Blue Monday, KW1, Confusion, Fine Time, etc, were all following in the footsteps of other artistes who'd (arguably) already done it better.

Ten plus years later and over 14K posts, they're obviously doing something right for you.

Is that relevant to my post?

I've never once said I don't like New Order. Far from it. Hence my posts over the past 10 years.

I've just said I don't really believe any of the nonsense about them 'pushing boundaries'. Urban myth, little more.

Agreed. I'd actually suggest that the Happy Mondays with an album like "Bummed" pushed more boundries than New Order did, even with something like PCL.

Yeah Hook wants to leave it til next year when some new technology will be invented that will prevent music from being available for free on the internet

In the light of this news - I have just cancelled my pre-order with Amazon.

Oh well that will be one less Xmas prezzie for me this year.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear.....

I wish I took my bet into Ladbrookes with odds of 25-1.

I would have been ROLLING IN IT!!!

2005 ———> 2012

Bit of a long bloody wait for some out-takes from a less than thrilling album anyway isn't it?

Who still loves Hooky now eh??

:p :p

joe davola wrote: Now I'm really pissed.

So please can someone put up the tracks on the good old internet now? Just to piss the Hookster off. There must have been some people involved in this release who are in possession of them.

If they were worth anything, I'd sell my Hook-collection of records right now. Unfortunately, no one wants Revenge, Monaco or Freebass-releases. Guess why Hooky.

Hopefully the other three make a hell of a new record with the best faux-Hooky basslines imagineable.

That's all we need, someone putting them up on a blog for free!!

Of the 6 new songs there are surely bound to be at least 2 or 3 good ones to stand alongside the better songs from Sirens, and then fans can compile a new version of the original album with the best of the lost songs replacing the worst off the original album.. The prospect of the songs leaking doesn't seem that remote seeing as it go do close to being released..

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Who still loves Hooky now eh??

I still haven't forgiven him for Freebass yet

Perhaps some of the vinyl copies have been manufactured by now. If one or two slip out they could become super sought -after like the Sex Pistols God Save the Queen on A&M. Or something.

Debaser wrote: Perhaps some of the vinyl copies have been manufactured by now. If one or two slip out they could become super sought -after like the Sex Pistols God Save the Queen on A&M. Or something.

Dream on baby............ dream on........

As if!

Do you really think that New Order releases are THAT collectible these days?

I did put "Or something" at the end for a reason. Too dry?

Their stock has fallen quite considerably in the last 10 years or so..... that must say something about their status, surely......

condemnation wrote:

joe davola wrote: Now I'm really pissed.

So please can someone put up the tracks on the good old internet now? Just to piss the Hookster off. There must have been some people involved in this release who are in possession of them.

If they were worth anything, I'd sell my Hook-collection of records right now. Unfortunately, no one wants Revenge, Monaco or Freebass-releases. Guess why Hooky.

Hopefully the other three make a hell of a new record with the best faux-Hooky basslines imagineable.

That's all we need, someone putting them up on a blog for free!!

I can see it. If Hooky doesn't sanction it, then I'm sure it will be floated into torrent heaven.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear.....

I wish I took my bet into Ladbrookes with odds of 25-1.

I would have been ROLLING IN IT!!!

2005 ———> 2012

Bit of a long bloody wait for some out-takes from a less than thrilling album anyway isn't it?

Who still loves Hooky now eh??

:p :p

And why, sir, are you so negatively happy everytime there are any news - bad or good - about New Order? Just sayin' like

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear.....

I wish I took my bet into Ladbrookes with odds of 25-1.

I would have been ROLLING IN IT!!!

2005 ———> 2012

Bit of a long bloody wait for some out-takes from a less than thrilling album anyway isn't it?

Who still loves Hooky now eh??

:p :p

And why, sir, are you so negatively happy everytime there are any news - bad or good - about New Order? Just sayin' like

Some of us just love a good whinge, you know?

Life would be so boring otherwise if everything was happy clappy hunky dory hooky cooky.

:p

Now it has been pushed back to March 19, 2012.

This title will be released on March 19, 2012.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Sirens-LP-CD-VINYL/dp/B0065V2ISA/ref=amb_link_162037467_1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=asin-coop-gp-1-C&pf_rd_r=180GFMPEVN98S18D3W7S&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=265459947&pf_rd_i=231193

This Really SUCKS, I hate waiting

You know summat, the thought has just occurred to me that Kevin Shields will get his remastered version of LOVELESS by My Bloody Valentine (which was originally scheduled for 2008, then 2009, then 2010, then 2011, then...??????) in the shops before this is going to finally see the light of day.

Fuck me, this is really taking the proverbial don't cha think???

linus sulanki wrote: Now it has been pushed back to March 19, 2012.

This title will be released on March 19, 2012.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Sirens-LP-CD-VINYL/dp/B0065V2ISA/ref=amb_link_162037467_1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=asin-coop-gp-1-C&pf_rd_r=180GFMPEVN98S18D3W7S&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=265459947&pf_rd_i=231193

This Really SUCKS, I hate waiting

Now it'll be a spring present for me and not a Christmas present.

so what are we supposed to do now on christmas eve??

This is like a circus without the entertainment. Just some lame clown making the kids cry and giving the parents the jitters.

patrik forssell wrote: so what are we supposed to do now on christmas eve??

er........

.....wank???

and eat Chocolates??

This is really shit. I've hoped to get it as my Xmas present. Now it's going to be an Easter one. But fuck, the momentum they've building up with all these interviews, gigs and Total.... fucking wasted.

P.S. Even though Hooky does not share the stage with Bernard anymore, his spirit is still omnipresent :p I wonder how it will affect Bernard's mood during the upcoming gigs.

March eh? Beware the Ides

Ridiculous.

I hope it leaks before Christmas.

Frankly...

Igor wrote: Ridiculous.

I hope it leaks before Christmas.

Well that's just the point isn't it - more chance for it to leak before the official release date means more folks likely to download it illegally and then decide to cancel their pre-order... I bet it sells less now than it would've done if it have come out on the 12th... Way to go, that's really fcuking the band over...

Snorri xxx

NO Regret wrote: This is like a circus without the entertainment. Just some lame clown making the kids cry and giving the parents the jitters.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

The momentum they've building up with all these interviews, gigs and Total.... fucking wasted.

Maybe that was the point..

Then again all the fans know is that the delay is for copyright reasons,it would though be interesting to hear Hooky's position on all of this.